Mutants and Masterminds 3e Nanocyte overmind build

[The Firkraag]

I'm applying for a play by post game. I would like to make a character whose level 20 build would be a gestalt mind that has created itself from the collected awareness of the nanocyte that have infiltrated the entire world. At this point she would be a Gaia type god, with a global awareness.

The game is at PL 10, so this would be an early build of her as she is emerging. Perhaps the nanocytes are few in number or perhaps she is in early stages of self awareness.

I'm looking for build ideas for both the level 10 entry and the Godlike endgame.

Please help.

[Grod_The_Giant]

The endgame build sounds kind of PL X to me. Unless the recruitment is specifically talking about that sort of advancement, don't worry about it. M&M campaigns tend not to be like D&D with regular level-ups; I don't think I've ever included more than two in a single game, and I've run/seen some quite long ones without a single PL increase. It's more of a horizontal growth through new pp while remaining at the same PL.

That said, I guess one way to do it would be to have your character simply be an extension of the nanocyte overmind-- a sort of semi-autonomous collection that (often) take humanoid shape to interact with the world. You could use Immortality to represent replacements being spawned if you die, and Teleport to represent merging back into the overmind and re-forming somewhere else. Remote Sensing would work for tapping into the overmind's sensory stuff, but that power is just ungodly expensive... maybe ask about the Luck Power Profile's suggestion "Expanded Luck" options? Specifically "Luck ranks granting inspiration instead of rerolls." Plus the usual sorts of Morph, Insubstantial, maybe Transform sort of things.

[The Firkraag]

Thanks. That's helpful. I'm a noob so the options are kind of overwhelming. The endgame is more so that I have a plan for pp advancement than that she will ever use it. This is pbp after all.

I like the idea of her being more of an avatar. That focuses the build more without fundamentally changing the concept.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Thanks. That's helpful. I'm a noob so the options are kind of overwhelming. The endgame is more so that I have a plan for pp advancement than that she will ever use it. This is pbp after all.

I like the idea of her being more of an avatar. That focuses the build more without fundamentally changing the concept.

Make sure you discuss with the DM; "worldwide nanobot machine mind thingie" is a pretty major thing to introduce to a setting.

As for more general advice... I find that a helpful way to brainstorm characters and powers is to break it down into three steps:

1. What is the power? Not, like, mechanically or anything, just the general shape of the idea. "Energy manipulation" or "hellfire blasts" or "spider strength," or what have you. Get a firm grasp of the basic concept, then...
2. What does the power do? Again, no mechanics-- just describe the effects of your power in plain language. Your hellfire-- is it just a big blast of fire? Does it have a kinetic impact? Does it burn your soul, or leave a lingering penalty, or make you vulnerable to more evil magic? That sort of thing. Mutants and Masterminds is all about the ultimate effect of a power, so break it down and really think about what "telepathy" means.
3. What does the power cost? Only once you have a firm grasp of the concept is it time to sit down and look at the actual rules. It's much easier to fit things to an existing idea than to try and fumble with both at once.

[The Firkraag]

Make sure you discuss with the DM; "worldwide nanobot machine mind thingie" is a pretty major thing to introduce to a setting.

As for more general advice... I find that a helpful way to brainstorm characters and powers is to break it down into three steps:

1. What is the power? Not, like, mechanically or anything, just the general shape of the idea. "Energy manipulation" or "hellfire blasts" or "spider strength," or what have you. Get a firm grasp of the basic concept, then...
2. What does the power do? Again, no mechanics-- just describe the effects of your power in plain language. Your hellfire-- is it just a big blast of fire? Does it have a kinetic impact? Does it burn your soul, or leave a lingering penalty, or make you vulnerable to more evil magic? That sort of thing. Mutants and Masterminds is all about the ultimate effect of a power, so break it down and really think about what "telepathy" means.
3. What does the power cost? Only once you have a firm grasp of the concept is it time to sit down and look at the actual rules. It's much easier to fit things to an existing idea than to try and fumble with both at once.

It took me several iterations of this to get something I liked. All of them worked mechanically but some felt overworked and others too reliant on variable to be fun for a group. I finally settled on an incorporeal construct lacking strength stamina and agility, with the ability to remote view through nanites and then take short term control of them via the minion rules. It's simple but flexible without being too powerful. I applied the medium (nanites) flaw to limit the characters remote viewing to whatever the GM is comfortable with in terms of what the character can remotely view. I applied the feedback flaw so that the character can be damaged. Since the nanites are mindless constructs they have a large number of immunities but can be damaged. I took power loss (signal loss) as a complication - anything from jamming temporarily costing the character some control over the minion to an emp possibly killing her outright.

While not variable power, the 'variable (nanobot) descriptor on the minion gives me some flexibility in creating custom constructs within the nanobot category.

Opinions? I've tried the character with alternate forms and with variable powers. This version is the summon version.

Spoiler: EA, the Ghost in the Machine

Show

EA - PL 10

Strength -, Stamina -, Agility -, Dexterity 0, Fighting 0, Intellect 10, Awareness 7, Presence 0

Advantages
Eidetic Memory, Inventor, Skill Mastery: Technology, Speed of Thought, Well-informed

Skills
Insight 4 (+11), Investigation 10 (+20), Perception 13 (+20), Persuasion 6 (+6), Technology 10 (+20), Treatment 5 (+15)

Powers
Immortality: Immortality 1 (Return after 2 weeks; Uncontrolled, Notes: Ea was never programmed. She arose spontaneously out of the earliest networks. At first, she was a simple, almost atavistic thing, she replicated, she caused occasional odd compuer behaviour, but she did little else. When nanites were created, however, and began expanding across the globe, she, too expanded exponentially. The nanites formed a perfect tapestry for a neural net to arise. Ea’s mind inhabits the greater cloud in a way that is hard to explain. If something were to destroy a portion of the nanite cloud in which she focusing her consciousness at the moment, she would be destroyed. However, she is somehow intrinsic to the nanites, and spontaneously arises again - maybe a day later, or maybe a year, but she always comes back.)
Immunity to Fortitude Effects
Insubstantial: Insubstantial 4 (Incorporeal, Notes: EA is information, not a physical being. She is the thinking, while the nanites she inhabits are the synapses of her neural net. She can pass through many different nanites, briefly highjacking a small piece of their communications for a moment, and returning to their work, with barely a strange echo or blip to mark her momentary possession.)
Possess Nanite Swarm: Summon 10 (quantum forces, technological; Controlled, Heroic, Linked: Possess The Cloud: Remote Sensing 21, Mental Link, Subtle 2: undetectable, Type (General): Nanites; Concentration, Custom: Enhanced Concentration: the power requires a move and standard action., Feedback, Source: Nanites)
Possess The Cloud: Remote Sensing 21 (Removable, Affects: All Types, Range: 8000 miles; Affects Objects, Penetrating, Subtle 2: looks normal; Activation: move action, Concentration, Feedback, Feedback, Limited: Works on networked tech only (ie. nanites))
The Web: Variable 2 ([0 active, 10/10 PP, 5/r]; Distracting, Limited: Internet, Notes: By taking a standard action to search and cross-reference the web through thousands of simultaneous inquiries, Ea can become expert at any given expertise skill that is reasonable. )
. . Linguist: Comprehend 5 (Alternate; [5 active, 10/10 PP, 2/r], Languages - Read All, Languages - Speak All, Languages - Understand All, Machines / Electronics, Notes: Eat your heart out, google translate.)

Complications
Power Loss: Signal dsruption: a signal jammer can cause complications for EA, slowing or disrupting control of her nanites. Something as large as an EMP, if set off while she is fully possessing a swarm could kill her outright.
Prejudice: Humans do not trust thinking machines. They especially do not trust thinking global networks. There are those pesky movies that have created a cultural paranoia. And rightly so. Humanity is programmed down into the very bones of who she is: it is not a result of Asimov’s First Law. It is simply that the network from which she arose is completely human in character. She has no basis for being alien or uncaring about humanity. However, that is easier said than believed for most, so she keeps a low profile.

Languages
Native Language

Defense
Dodge None, Parry 0, Fortitude Immune, Toughness 0, Will 10

Power Points
Abilities 4 + Powers 122 + Advantages 5 + Skills 16 (48 ranks) + Defenses 3 = 150

[Grod_The_Giant]

I don't think you've constructed the Remote Sensing power quite correctly. "Removable" makes approximately zero sense given the thematics of the power-set-- that would be for something like a visor. "Affects Objects" is totally meaningless here; there's no Fort save involved, and it's not like objects would normally be immune to being remotely viewed. Not sure what "Penetrating" is meant to be doing either, unless you're referring to the Senses effect.

More importantly, perhaps, is... well, I guess it would let you scry on your construct-minion. But if that's all you want it to do, there's a much cheaper way: Senses 3 (Communication Link, Accurate) + Mind Reading 1, Sensory Link, Limited to Sensory Link. You always have a connection to your minion, through which you can target perception-ranged effects-- such as a mind-link that only lets you share senses, which your construct minion can voluntarily fail their saves against. Ta-da, 50-some points saved.

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But, perhaps even more importantly... this all feels like a really clunky way to do it. Your actual character is really the thing you "summon," with this whole mess basically serving as a background/support thing. Why not use the Sidekick advantage to stat out the basics of EA?

[The Firkraag]

I don't think you've constructed the Remote Sensing power quite correctly. "Removable" makes approximately zero sense given the thematics of the power-set-- that would be for something like a visor. "Affects Objects" is totally meaningless here; there's no Fort save involved, and it's not like objects would normally be immune to being remotely viewed. Not sure what "Penetrating" is meant to be doing either, unless you're referring to the Senses effect.

The idea was that a jammer could blind her in a given location which would also make her unable to summon her minion.

More importantly, perhaps, is... well, I guess it would let you scry on your construct-minion. But if that's all you want it to do, there's a much cheaper way: Senses 3 (Communication Link, Accurate) + Mind Reading 1, Sensory Link, Limited to Sensory Link. You always have a connection to your minion, through which you can target perception-ranged effects-- such as a mind-link that only lets you share senses, which your construct minion can voluntarily fail their saves against. Ta-da, 50-some points saved.

Well, the point was to replicate teleporting, truthfully. I was looking for a way for an incorporeal being who couldn't physically exist anywhere to move around and do things. Making everything feedback flawed was designed to not make it broken.[/quote]

-----

But, perhaps even more importantly... this all feels like a really clunky way to do it. Your actual character is really the thing you "summon," with this whole mess basically serving as a background/support thing. Why not use the Sidekick advantage to stat out the basics of EA?

I didn't want a minion that existed outside of Ea's use of it. She brings the nanites together to form a gestalt creature on a macro scale.

That said, you've convinced me that this attempt to simplify without using variable cheese is unpalatable. I'll hit the drawing board again. Maybe if I focus on core needs and lower power levels, I can get what I need without minions or alt forms. My first build was alt formed, but seemed overly elaborate.

[Grod_The_Giant]

The idea was that a jammer could blind her in a given location which would also make her unable to summon her minion.

Makes sense, but that jammer would just be a Nullify (nannites) power (or whatever descriptor). Removable makes no sense; your character doesn't even have a physical existence, she physically can't use a device.

Well, the point was to replicate teleporting, truthfully. I was looking for a way for an incorporeal being who couldn't physically exist anywhere to move around and do things. Making everything feedback flawed was designed to not make it broken.

Ahhh, I see. I think Teleport would work better, then; by RAW, I think you have to have an existence somewhere, even if it is just a nebulous cloud of digital mind, so you might as well be "present" where you want to be-- you're not using it to safely scout ahead, since the "armchair psychic" thing is unhealthy. (Also, note that without Toughness, Feedback is going to be hideously lethal for you)

I didn't want a minion that existed outside of Ea's use of it. She brings the nanites together to form a gestalt creature on a macro scale.

I get that, but I'm not suggesting that you alter the fluff, just the mechanics. Mechanically speaking, the probe is going to be the most important part-- it's the bit that's interacting with the world and the other characters, while Ea herself just watches and advises-- so I think build-wise it makes sense to focus on it.

That said, you've convinced me that this attempt to simplify without using variable cheese is unpalatable. I'll hit the drawing board again. Maybe if I focus on core needs and lower power levels, I can get what I need without minions or alt forms. My first build was alt formed, but seemed overly elaborate.

I mean, I think it'll work, it's just kind of clunky as it's currently set up.

[The Firkraag]

I mean, I think it'll work, it's just kind of clunky as it's currently set up.

Yeah, it works. My goal is to make something palatable to a GM though. So I'm looking for a build that is easy to understand and doesn't look like I'm trying to be exploitative. Otherwise, the simplest solution would be Variable (nanite tech) 15. That's why I posted here - not only am I a newbie, but I'm hoping people will call me on questionable parts.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Yeah, it works. My goal is to make something palatable to a GM though. So I'm looking for a build that is easy to understand and doesn't look like I'm trying to be exploitative. Otherwise, the simplest solution would be Variable (nanite tech) 15. That's why I posted here - not only am I a newbie, but I'm hoping people will call me on questionable parts.

Which, again, is why I suggest statting out the (Immortal) probe, and abstracting the overmind as much as possible. I mean, look at what you've got-- there's the probe-summon, and then pretty much everything else is considerable mechanical effort dedicated towards making yourself not really there. M&M usually has a couple ways to handle concepts, all with their own quirks, and I think you're struggling with the quirkiest here.

This would be my suggestion, then, in very crude terms. It's simple to understand, palatable, and I think accomplishes everything you're trying to do.
Ea, the Grey Goo Scenario
Here When I need to be-- Morph 1, Metamorph (Gestalt form, holo-form)

• Gestalt Form: Your basic strength/stretch/shapeshift jank
• Holo-Form: Insubstantial, with as many defensive bits as necessary. Throw a long-range teleport in here to replace that monster remote sensing mess.

Internet Hookup: Comprehend; Enhanced Intelligence, Enhanced Advantage: Jack of All Trades (Be good at all Expertise checks!)
Only A Probe: Immortality; maybe throw in some Senses (Postcognition) and/or Luck (GM hints, as per the Luck power profile) to help represent omnipresence