[Dreamscarred Press] New playtest: the Rajah, an akashic initiator!

[AGrinningCat]

Character HP is generally more precious than monster HP since PCs have less of it, so anything that gives me a worse return on the damage I deal compared to the damage I dealt to myself is just plain awful. I can barely stand similar abilities that are 1:1 ratio! Being after you hit helps some, but also only being for a single attack hurts it and it's a tricky balancing act.

You are right on this being a tricky balancing act. I’m currently looking for a solution for this stance slot -- While I like the idea of paying life for an effect, finding an effect that players want to pay life for (And thus, giving the radiant dawn user something to heal) is going to be tricky.

For Amulet of War, it effectively only replaces a weapon for its statistics and what weapon type it counts as right? If I have TWF and 2 claws and use a strike that allows a full-attack through Vassalage and use Amulet of War to replace those claws with say scimitars, I still would only make 2 attacks with the claws converted to scimitars weapons correct?

I’ll get some wording after this to make sure that this isn’t being abused for more attacks when using full-attack strikes.

Furthermore, what the devil happens when replacing melee weapons with a ranged weapon or vice versa? Could you suddenly make a melee strike into a ranged one as a result, or would it still be against a melee target (since I guess the target is already locked in?), just with a weapon that happens to be ranged (which doesn't matter a ton since no AoOs for ranged attacks through vassalage)?

You can’t make melee strikes into ranged or vice versa; that’s a property of the strike, not the weapon you’re using.

EDIT: Do the Tainted Essence/Veiled in Purity feats work with The Benevolent/Fallen when they're shaped onto allies for the changing of how your alignment pings? They use a different wording of saying "equipped" veils that isn't used anywhere else or defined, instead of shaped, which might mean they only count veils shaped onto yourself. At the same time, Titles you've given out are still very much your power coming from you, so I could see shaping a [good] Title like the Benevolent affecting you as the energy passes through you to your entitled.

Because the veilweaver is doing the shaping, Veiled in Purity/Tainted Essence only affects the veilweaver. I realize that’s the boring answer, so I’ll put this on my backlog to revisit for a specific rules call out.

Hi, some feedback:
Rajah gains its fourth stance at level 8, but I believe the standard is that the stance should be at level 9.

Fixed, thank you

The Dragon doesn't seem to work off natural attacks. I believe the intent is for Thrashing Dragon to work with paired natural attacks, so perhaps you can add in some language if you want that to be possible.

I’ll get this fixed

The Mighty doesn't remove AoOs from bull rushes, but it does for the free trip attempt.

Fixed

The Nightmare's and the Watcher's "standard action to attack and curse a foe" ability seems a bit weak, especially as levels increase... and also for the rajah, who can't use their vassalage ability with it. How about just have it be a swift action that lets the user's next attack grant the cursed status?

I actually like this, but let me hold off on fixing this; I want to make sure this won’t cause any unforseen power issues.

The Twins's illusions would benefit if, say, they looked like the entitled, with a perception DC to spot if they're illusions... Something like 10 + veilweaver level + initiator modifier + (2x?) essenced invested.

I don’t know if the Twin title really needs more power; it’s already proven to be very useful for team positioning and those with class features that rely on flanking (sneak attack). I’ll consider this, but no promises.

The Shatter Spell maneuver is ambiguous as to whether its "touch a willing target" aspect deals damage.

I’ll get this fixed.

Ring of a Thousand Names is not listed on the outline on the left. It's easy to miss without being listed!

Got it fixed!

Laying of hands had come partly from a belief that a king's touch can heal. Perhaps something similar could be a heraldry, like X/day remove disease/poison, and perhaps allowing the servants to aid heal checks (or at least allow taking care of more people at once).
Another way to get heraldries would probably be taking things from religious leaders as well.

At this point, I’m looking for more ‘comfort’ things than actual functionality. I feel Rajah’s heraldries are in a good place, so I’m being careful about adding any extra power. Remove disease/poison is pretty up there, and something that Radiant Dawn can do (at higher levels). A heal oriented heraldry might not be bad though, I’ll see what pops up.

Tying in to this, Wake of the Emperor does feel a bit... weak-ish? I think a way to make it better would be to add something like water walking (or water parting), and perhaps also making a small (10 ft?) persistent aura around the initiator? Could even throw in an endure elements, too, or something akin to the avowed's air control.

I think it originally had “walking flight”, where allies could follow your path, but I ended up taking that out. I’ll poll around more for this stance to see what to do with it.

Emperor's New Clothes may benefit from giving bonuses to other skills. Like summoning a ninja outfit for +2 stealth.

Emperor’s clothes are in a good spot right now, so I don’t think I’ll be adding any functionality here.

Allure I think could be better as like... charm? I don't know, it's tough to salvage the idea. Perhaps you can just cut it in favor of something else, like something called "Charm Offensive" that gives you X/day charm spells.

Allure is definitely on my log of things to fix before release. I have a few ideas for it, so I’ll see what gets through the sieve.

Interesting interaction I noticed, a Kijin (from Bloodforge) with the Sin Soaked alternative racial trait could take The Fallen as a free veil that doesn't count against its normal limits for veils shaped, letting a Kijin Rajah get just a little bit more boost out of their Vassalage feature than other races.

Having looked at this, I don’t see this as too much of an issue, especially with the recent changes to vassalage.

My point is that "on a single saving throw" and "on a single type of saving throw" are not the same thing. RAW right now, the second mode you listed is actually "gives your initiation modifier as a bonus to an ally for a single Fort, Reflex, or Will during this round".
Fixed? This. Should be good now

My point is that the repetition of wording is likely to make some people overlook this. It would work better if it was a single sentence noting the initiation mod to attack for both, and then a following clause noting the initiation mod to damage for vassalage.

Since vassalage got changed, I don’t think this is relevant anymore. If the new wording is still an issue, let me know.

"Obviously supernatural" and "not worth money" seem like things that don't really logically follow. Maybe "obviously a spell effect" instead (e.g. "people won't buy it because it could get dispelled")? Even with that in mind, it's a little awkward to say you can never get money out of it. Maybe a little sidebar noting that it's a good justification for a Profession skill (e.g. selling your services in magical outfit conjuring for events, rather than selling the outfits).

I’ll adjust the wording, but I have no desire to give any foothold for someone to make money off of this ability. Talk to your GM if you want to try to get a circumstance bonus out of a profession skill using this, but that’s going to be on them.

For a simple example in Finnish (which has some fairly compact direct imperative forms), Hyppää kalliolta! means "jump off a cliff!".

This has been a pain in my butt. I’ll probably end up adjusting the wording and side barring a detailed explanation.

For a general question, how does the amulet of war interact with Mithral Current's draw requirements?
You know, I could have sworn that I had written rules on this. I’ll get this fixed.

Edit: One other complication I've realized—technically, something like an amulet of war (rifle) or even amulet of war (gravity gun) is a valid choice and saves a lot of gold. You may want to put some kind of price limit, or some amount above which the base cost of the weapon gets added to the amulet.

I’ll get a price fixer here for more expensive weapons.

Edit edit: One more question on interactions. I have an amulet of war (culverin). If I use it to attack via vassalage, am I rendered prone?

It counts as the keyed weapon for all intents and purposes. It’ll knock you prone, unless you have something that stops you otherwise.
[QUOTE=MilleniaAntares;22245650]I am making my rajah character sheet on Google docs and new concerns have come up:
Just to confirm, The Dragon's akasha-breath only procs once a round, right?
Correct, added wording to confirm.

Also, does this veil benefit different natural weapons? I think it would match the discipline's intent to allow natural weapons to be used, though admittedly you may have a better idea of that than me.

Added in wording, although it’s a bit odd. Hopefully this works for now, though.

For The Duelist, could you have the mark disappear when enemy is knocked out? Non-lethal damage doesn't necessarily reduce someone's HP below zero. Similarly, the Resolute's ability could be better if it also included being knocked out.

Added in wording here.

For The Nightmare and The Watcher, I feel it would be better to have it be any cursed creature, rather than creatures cursed specifically by the rajah...

It’s any creature the entitled has cursed, not the rajah.

The Primordial should probably have a sidebar that gives the information on Tap Animus. In addition, how long does the circumstance bonus to AC last? Until the temp HP is gone? 1 minute?

The AC lasts as long as the temporary hit points last. Once the THP is gone or expires, so does the AC. I’ll get a sidebar up for Tap & Extra Animus

The Specialist should probably have the conjured ammunition also count as magic... it makes sense in my view.

Added this as well.

I just noticed this, but Path of the Sun care about "the number of maneuvers you've expended from this stance's source", source meaning the class that has this 8th level stance. It seems a little weird that it's not Radiant Dawn maneuvers expended, or maneuvers expended that could have essence invested in them, but instead is just any 10 maneuvers from any discipline as long as they're from the same class.

This was intended -- I didn’t want players to pull some strange shenanigans with mutli-classing to cause a ton of free essence to appear. There’s the option of being Radiant Dawn only, or maneuvers you can invest essence into, but an 8th level stance should just be *good* out of the box. So it’s your maneuvers, period.

The Amulet of War seems to open a can of worms when combined with multi-attack strikes. Imagine a character with a huge number of natural attacks and non-hand weapons like armor spikes, sea-knives, a barbazu beard, and a dwarven boulder helm. Don't worry about not being proficient with them. Get a 1 level dip of Rajah for Vassalage. Get an amulet of war keyed to a greatsword (or worse, a butchering axe from Adventurer's Armory 2). Use Frenzy Strike (Primal Fury 3).
This character would make a large number of attacks, and they all would be delivered with the amulet's greatsword in place of all the regular weapons. Since an amulet of war costs 75% as much as a normal weapon, it'll have a higher than average enhancement bonus. It's way cheaper to have a single weapon rather than multiple weapons, just ask any TWFer.

Marked on the tracker (since this is a bit more involved), which I plan on cleaning out once I get a few things modified for Batal. Maybe this weekend, assuming I have time.

For Royal Mandate is their anything preventing a Rajah from moving, Royal Mandating themselves(since you are your own ally) to attack and regaining initiator mod of manuevers?

Nothing at all!

-----------

Alright, I think that covers it for everyone's feedback. If I missed something, let me know and I'll get to it! In the mean time, I'll update the tracker with the various changes; to include a few I'm going to make to Batal.

Batal will lose 2 skill points per level, keeping it in line with other d10 full BaB classes. Medals of War will have wording to make sure that they don't have any weirdness with Loyal Paladin's Spear and Hand Cannons, should the Batal choose to shape them. Sky Sovereign wording will also be cleaned up and have it's progression reduced by a step.

The HP gain is in a weird spot; this is a correction to have it "change" into a D10 HD, but unfortunately there's no other 1pp or DSP archetype that actually changes the HD of a class. (If I'm wrong, please correct me!). As such, the HP gain is going to stay as is for now, until I find a cleaner solution to help the Batal exist on the front lines.

[Ssalarn]

It may or may not help, but while there aren't many classes that swap out HD types, there are some archetypes, like the first worlder summoner archetype, that change the HD type of the eidolon, which could potentially serve as a template.

Also, if the information helps, the book that Jeremy and I are on for Lost Spheres, City of Seven Seraphs, includes the new veilweaving class the Nexus which is going to have at least 5 new weapon-like veils in addition to the ones that are already in AM (Crimson Totem, LP's Spear of Light, and Hand Cannons), so we added some rules clarifications for weapon-like veils. Jeremy should have them, or you can PM me if you'd like me to send them to you directly.

[Dr_Dinosaur]

Finding something players will willingly pay HP for is tough to balance, to be sure. Can't make it too strong because the same discipline provides healing, but if it's too weak people won't take it...

[AGrinningCat]

It may or may not help, but while there aren't many classes that swap out HD types, there are some archetypes, like the first worlder summoner archetype, that change the HD type of the eidolon, which could potentially serve as a template.

I'll take a look into this! If the wording can work, I'll get the archetype to change the HD instead of the bonus HP

Also, if the information helps, the book that Jeremy and I are on for Lost Spheres, City of Seven Seraphs, includes the new veilweaving class the Nexus which is going to have at least 5 new weapon-like veils in addition to the ones that are already in AM (Crimson Totem, LP's Spear of Light, and Hand Cannons), so we added some rules clarifications for weapon-like veils. Jeremy should have them, or you can PM me if you'd like me to send them to you directly.

It's not quite the weapons themselves giving me issues, it's the veilweaving and BaB interactions! But it's all fixed now (Hopefully, and if not, I'm certain someone will bring that to my attention)! That being said, I'm looking forward to these weapon veils myself! I'm almost tempted to take you up on that offer just to see them before anyone else!
It's funny that you mention weapon veils; as I've been keeping something under wraps myself. After a brief discussion with my dark overlords bossmen at DSP, they've given me the go-ahead to reveal something from a future project!

Spoiler

Show

What makes this veil special is the Weapon Descriptor, listed below.

Spoiler

Show

With that reveal over, I'm looking forward to the weapon veils you produce!

Finding something players will willingly pay HP for is tough to balance, to be sure. Can't make it too strong because the same discipline provides healing, but if it's too weak people won't take it...

Yeah. I get the feeling this is going to stick me in the side like the mercy feat. I'm sure I'll find something! Hopefully. Maybe...

[Ssalarn]

It's funny that you mention weapon veils; as I've been keeping something under wraps myself. After a brief discussion with my dark overlords bossmen at DSP, they've given me the go-ahead to reveal something from a future project!

Spoiler

Show

What makes this veil special is the Weapon Descriptor, listed below.

Spoiler

Show

With that reveal over, I'm looking forward to the weapon veils you produce!

I don't see myself using that tag at this time, but hopefully it works out for you. I'd probably re-examine some things in there, like the special materials rules and whether it makes sense to have separate Hardness and hit point rules for the weapon that separate it out from the veil but also still leaves it attached to the veil. That's going to create a situation where the effectiveness with which you deal with an akashic enemy is based on your personal knowledge of the system, depending on how various interactions play out. If I add adamantine, does the weapon get the hardness of adamantine, or does it use the veil default? What if I infuse multiple types of special material into the weapon since the tag lets me do that? How do those interact? From an immersion perspective, is it weird that materials just kind of cease to exist when added in this manner?
What is the default composition of a weapon-like veil with the [Weapon] tag? Special materials are often gated by the weapon's primary materials (is it primarily wood, metal, something else since it's magically constructed?), so determining how applying those materials works and how they interact with e.g. a rust monster would be important if you're going to go that route.
Are you at all worried that enchanting weapon-like veils deprioritizes them and makes them less attractive? If you're pouring your WBL into a veil and that wealth doesn't stack with your own essence investments, you're going to do your best to avoid investing essence. Seems like the different design on the Astra Scythe might help with that as long as you're not trying to backport the tag. It wouldn't be a good fit with the weapons in Akashic Mysteries since they don't assume those capabilities in their set-up.
That does bring up some other questions though; are you at all concerned that 2nd level is really early to be introducing a hard stop block on resurrections that can only be countered by dominating the veilweaver with an effect that will work through you damaging them to get the requisite blood? Seems like GMs will be frustrated at such a high level ability being available and impinging on their ability to use recurring enemies and players definitely aren't going to be happy if their characters get killed by it. Is there a reason you rewrote the save formula when veils already have a default saving throw formula? It leads to the individual veil saving throws getting jacked up way above the average curve and undermines the resource management nature of essence by having the abilities automatically outscale spell DCs and then allowing massive escalation on top of that.

Essence investment is supposed to mimic spell DC progression. Your base DCs match up to cantrips and then as you invest essence you escalate the saving throw and effects into "higher level spells". By changing the formula you create a situation where the base save DC for a level 18 wizard with a 30 Int casting a 9th level spell has a save DC of 29, and an equivalent Vizier with an Astra Scythe has a save DC of 29 bumping up to 39 with maximum essence investment (40 at the next level). Having veils running at the same effectiveness as max level spells and then escalating beyond that by such a significant amount was never intended with the system's all day design. Related, is the "minimum damage this scythe deals" referring to the base damage dice of the scythe, or the minimum possible damage for that attack? How does it interact with things like Power Attack or Vital Strike?

[khadgar567]

I'll take a look into this! If the wording can work, I'll get the archetype to change the HD instead of the bonus HP

It's not quite the weapons themselves giving me issues, it's the veilweaving and BaB interactions! But it's all fixed now (Hopefully, and if not, I'm certain someone will bring that to my attention)! That being said, I'm looking forward to these weapon veils myself! I'm almost tempted to take you up on that offer just to see them before anyone else!
It's funny that you mention weapon veils; as I've been keeping something under wraps myself. After a brief discussion with my dark overlords bossmen at DSP, they've given me the go-ahead to reveal something from a future project!

Spoiler

Show

What makes this veil special is the Weapon Descriptor, listed below.

Spoiler

Show

With that reveal over, I'm looking forward to the weapon veils you produce!



Yeah. I get the feeling this is going to stick me in the side like the mercy feat. I'm sure I'll find something! Hopefully. Maybe...

I don't see myself using that tag at this time, but hopefully it works out for you. I'd probably re-examine some things in there, like the special materials rules and whether it makes sense to have separate Hardness and hit point rules for the weapon that separate it out from the veil but also still leaves it attached to the veil. That's going to create a situation where the effectiveness with which you deal with an akashic enemy is based on your personal knowledge of the system, depending on how various interactions play out. If I add adamantine, does the weapon get the hardness of adamantine, or does it use the veil default? What if I infuse multiple types of special material into the weapon since the tag lets me do that? How do those interact? From an immersion perspective, is it weird that materials just kind of cease to exist when added in this manner?
What is the default composition of a weapon-like veil with the [Weapon] tag? Special materials are often gated by the weapon's primary materials (is it primarily wood, metal, something else since it's magically constructed?), so determining how applying those materials works and how they interact with e.g. a rust monster would be important if you're going to go that route.
Are you at all worried that enchanting weapon-like veils deprioritizes them and makes them less attractive? If you're pouring your WBL into a veil and that wealth doesn't stack with your own essence investments, you're going to do your best to avoid investing essence. Seems like the different design on the Astra Scythe might help with that as long as you're not trying to backport the tag. It wouldn't be a good fit with the weapons in Akashic Mysteries since they don't assume those capabilities in their set-up.
That does bring up some other questions though; are you at all concerned that 2nd level is really early to be introducing a hard stop block on resurrections that can only be countered by dominating the veilweaver with an effect that will work through you damaging them to get the requisite blood? Seems like GMs will be frustrated at such a high level ability being available and impinging on their ability to use recurring enemies and players definitely aren't going to be happy if their characters get killed by it. Is there a reason you rewrote the save formula when veils already have a default saving throw formula? It leads to the individual veil saving throws getting jacked up way above the average curve and undermines the resource management nature of essence by having the abilities automatically outscale spell DCs and then allowing massive escalation on top of that.

Essence investment is supposed to mimic spell DC progression. Your base DCs match up to cantrips and then as you invest essence you escalate the saving throw and effects into "higher level spells". By changing the formula you create a situation where the base save DC for a level 18 wizard with a 30 Int casting a 9th level spell has a save DC of 29, and an equivalent Vizier with an Astra Scythe has a save DC of 29 bumping up to 39 with maximum essence investment (40 at the next level). Having veils running at the same effectiveness as max level spells and then escalating beyond that by such a significant amount was never intended with the system's all day design. Related, is the "minimum damage this scythe deals" referring to the base damage dice of the scythe, or the minimum possible damage for that attack? How does it interact with things like Power Attack or Vital Strike?

creator talk is all good but can some one post the pictures you are talking

[Draacul]

Remove disease/poison is pretty up there, and something that Radiant Dawn can do (at higher levels).

"Bolster: The affected ally gains a morale bonus equal to the rajah’s initiation modifier to their AC or on a saving throw of the rajah’s choice (Fortitude, Reflex, or Will) for one round. If they are suffering from an ongoing effect that allows for a saving throw, they may instead make a save against that effect with a morale bonus to that save equal to the rajah’s initiation modifier. A successful saving throw ends or reduces this ongoing effect as if they had passed the original saving throw.
"
Can't Rajah remove poison and disease literally at level one?
Speaking of,what are limits of this ability?Obviously poison and disease,but how about spells?

[Ninjaxenomorph]

I realized that Spoils of War fails the kitten-test: there is nothing (other than the honor system or a decent GM) preventing people under the effects of this stance from engaging in fistfight with random animals, or even each other, to heal out of combat. Outside of something defining enemies or stating the attack must deal lethal damage, I can't think of any quick fix.

Like I said, it's an abuse only achievable by exploiting RAW, but some GMs can have kneejerk reactions which can lead to the entire material being banned. It tends to be a bit more common with Path of War products among the gamers I run with.

[Air0r]

Spoiler

Show

the hardness & Sundering, upgradable, and by extension the multiple weapons sections of that don't sit with me right. I like having a weapon tag, cause then you can have feats and class features that directly interact with the tag. but... other than that?
1) For purposes of sunder they should work like normal veils.
2) upgrading and material should probably be ditched entirely, you already have essence investment that adds new things. BUT I have an alternative idea that may be a more graceful solution. You can make an item not unlike the amulet of might fists or crystal hilts that enhances your weapon veils.

[AGrinningCat]

creator talk is all good but can some one post the pictures you are talking

Mine are in the spoilers for my post. You'll have to ask Ssalarn where his is!

"Bolster: The affected ally gains a morale bonus equal to the rajah’s initiation modifier to their AC or on a saving throw of the rajah’s choice (Fortitude, Reflex, or Will) for one round. If they are suffering from an ongoing effect that allows for a saving throw, they may instead make a save against that effect with a morale bonus to that save equal to the rajah’s initiation modifier. A successful saving throw ends or reduces this ongoing effect as if they had passed the original saving throw.
"
Can't Rajah remove poison and disease literally at level one?
Speaking of,what are limits of this ability?Obviously poison and disease,but how about spells?

It can remove anything that allows for a saving throw during it's duration. Hold person, for example, but not Bestow Curse, since the latter only gives you one saving throw at the start.
As for Diseases/Poisons, unless I'm misremembering, if you fail a saving throw against the disease/poison, regardless of where the saving throw came from (Granted by the disease/poison or by a different ability), the disease/poison progresses. So bolstering against those is a sort of double-edged sword.

I realized that Spoils of War fails the kitten-test: there is nothing (other than the honor system or a decent GM) preventing people under the effects of this stance from engaging in fistfight with random animals, or even each other, to heal out of combat. Outside of something defining enemies or stating the attack must deal lethal damage, I can't think of any quick fix.

Like I said, it's an abuse only achievable by exploiting RAW, but some GMs can have kneejerk reactions which can lead to the entire material being banned. It tends to be a bit more common with Path of War products among the gamers I run with.

I believe we will have someone to come in and chat about this in a bit.

the hardness & Sundering, upgradable, and by extension the multiple weapons sections of that don't sit with me right. I like having a weapon tag, cause then you can have feats and class features that directly interact with the tag. but... other than that?
1) For purposes of sunder they should work like normal veils.
2) upgrading and material should probably be ditched entirely, you already have essence investment that adds new things. BUT I have an alternative idea that may be a more graceful solution. You can make an item not unlike the amulet of might fists or crystal hilts that enhances your weapon veils.

Keep these complaints in mind! When we progress forward with the project, that'll be something I'd like to hear more about!

Lets leave that topic for now, and head back to the Rajah
Unfortunately, I haven't had much completed with it (Besides a quick sidebar in Batal about homerules; while I go back and forth on how to progress with it), as I'm currently living near houston and basically watching the rain come down constantly. I'll be getting some updates out soon though, so stay tuned!

[Draacul]

if you fail a saving throw against the disease/poison, regardless of where the saving throw came from (Granted by the disease/poison or by a different ability), the disease/poison progresses. So bolstering against those is a sort of double-edged sword.

As opposed to,say,Lifeburst Strike,which specifically says that"this do not progress poison or disease on a failed save"?
Is lack of that line in Curate Strike intentional?If yes,what is even the point of Curate Strike unless you for some reason have 13 Charisma?
In the end,it's at-will ability that grants huge bonus on saves AND can remove disease and poison.I say it counts as athelas,and you don't even need a grass for it!

as I'm currently living near houston and basically watching the rain come down constantly.

Please don't die or suffer extensive property damage.One of my players is having the time of her life with Rajah in Kingmaker.
Literally the first essence-user she's having the fun with,to boot.

[AGrinningCat]

Happy labor day! I wanted to get something bigger out for everyone, but that plan fell through. Instead today I brought a few fixes -- Symbol of Mercy update being the biggest. As always, let me know if you all find anything that's off (Or just tell me about your Rajah games!)

[skaddix]

I don't think everyone writing rules for the game needs to worry about the Bag of Rats or Kitten Test. I mean sure they could put in only heals if enemy is above half CD but really best to leave it to DM Discretion. If your DM is fine with you being full health after every fight then by all means but if there not well then don't do it. That said Radiant Dawn seems pretty darn powerful judging by a quick read. It certainly seems to make poor Silver Crane Sad.

[Draacul]

Radiant Dawn does scale enormously well.
From the first level alone:
Bolster scales because it affects every attack in a round,and the further in the game the more attacks per round you will be subjected to.
Decree of Mercy is a thing that,in my opinion,should either affect melee and ranged attacks or be level or five higher,because it basically neuters blasters.Strike that,it neuters dragons!COMPLETELY.
Dismiss is straight up two-in-one combat maneuver,but it also does some very perverted things with action economy(because you get attack,bull rush and trip),and it doesn't use a silly skill check,too!
Spoils of War makes the old Martial Spirit cry like like an anime fan on prom night.It's useful at least through 10.
So,of them all only that healing strike doesn't scale.Well,and Festival of the Bloodied Goddess does nothing,except even it on level 6 can be rigged to basically grant all allies +3 to AC,and this compares pretty well to self-only stances of THIRD level that grant +4 AC and initiative.
Scaling maneuvers isn't something especially new,Breaking Glass Strike just works,and so does Dizzying Venom Prana,but there is just so many of them here!
Which is the breath of fresh air,because usually a)first-level maneuvers suck and b)most of your maneuvers are first-level.At level six Warlord has more 1st level maneuvers than all others combined!
Question:How Spoils of War interact with Radiant Sunlight style feat?
Question,when target is bull rushed during Dismiss,does it count as a successful bull rush for something that activates from it,like Gatecrusher gambit?
As of now,my experience is that Rajah is...tricky.He basically requires the party built specifically around him,but when done so,serves as enormous force multiplier,multiplied further by Radiant Dawn.
At first level,Warlord with Improved Essence Capacity basically means that you can do nothing and be better in-combat buffer than Bard.But if party properly dances as you direct,you're also a front-liner with front-liner damage that doesn't actually need to be in the front line.This is...interesting experience.Certainly for my players.

[Dr_Dinosaur]

I don't think everyone writing rules for the game needs to worry about the Bag of Rats or Kitten Test. I mean sure they could put in only heals if enemy is above half CD but really best to leave it to DM Discretion. If your DM is fine with you being full health after every fight then by all means but if there not well then don't do it. That said Radiant Dawn seems pretty darn powerful judging by a quick read. It certainly seems to make poor Silver Crane Sad.

If the DM wants you at full health after every fight they can heal you to full after every fight.

Say it with me now: "Being able to fix it doesn't mean it's not broken!"

[PsyBomb]

If the DM wants you at full health after every fight they can heal you to full after every fight.

Say it with me now: "Being able to fix it doesn't mean it's not broken!"

Hello Dr_Dinosaur! I'll start this off by sharing an article written by our own Jade Ripley on the topic (it was written with Harbinger primarily in mind, but it applies here): http://dreamscarred.com/the-bag-of-kittens-and-you/

Outside of combat, there are many ways in the early to mid game to keep your party refreshed for negligible actual resource expenditures, ranging from various wands of efficient spells (notably cure light wounds and infernal healing) to items granting fast healing to many class abilities to just using your low-level spell slots (which aren't a significant assist in actual combat). The actual limit here is actions. In combat, every action you spend is precious and needs to be maximized, but outside of it this limit does not exist.

Healing is cheap to the point of being effectively free once you get past level 3 or so if there isn't anything actively trying to eat your face, it only picks up a real cost when you have to decide between it and other important tasks. Radiant Dawn is balanced to this standard, such that you will actually be willing to consider the maneuvers near-equally with more offensive ones unless your allies are in immediate danger (since the best defense is always to inflict the Dead condition upon your enemy).

Some GMs choose to houserule their games to eliminate existing options for out-of-combat healing. In those games, Radiant Dawn may likewise need adjustment. But under the official rules, Radiant Dawn is just another way to trivially heal out-of-combat. GMs who disagree with the ability to heal out of combat, and who are controlling the other sources I mentioned, will probably prefer to limit the use of these maneuvers to combat itself. However, the ability is not, itself, broken.

[Desha]

Isn't that entire article really just the author trying to excuse her own poor design choices in response to a perfectly reasonable review? endzeitgeist.com/path-war/
We can see that Endzeitgeist, a professional Pathfinder reviewer, stated "Based on intimidate, it is an offensive, deadly discipline – that allows you to intimidate kittens to heal yourself as a supernatural ability. Remember, maneuvers can be regained infinitely. This means FREE INFINITE healing as long as any PC or kitten is around", and then just a couple days later this article is posted attempting to excuse the mechanics instead of embracing a simple change to cut the exploit out. It is weird that DSP seems to keep embracing kitten exploits instead of simply using "Whenever the initiator does X to a creature whose CR/HD are equal to or greater then their own" or something similar like most other companies. Isn't the argument itself flawed? You and Jade both talk about how "cheap and practically free" out of combat healing is, but the truth is that there is still a cost. If you use a wand of cure light wounds you're only healing 1d8+1 hit points a use at a cost of about 15 gp a use. Not an extravagant amount, but by 2nd or 3rd level, especially if you're using PoW, it is going to take 3 or 4 charges per character to completely heal up completely, and probably at least two party members will need it. If you are spending 120 gp per encounter at 2nd level to heal up that's going to affect your ability to buy basic upgrades, and it will probably cascade into higher levels. Maybe especially at higher levels since it is going to take more and more charges per character to heal up. Infinite healing is not a problem because healing is cheap really seems more like a forum board fallacy that is used as a deflection for critiques of poor mechanics that the PoW team just does not want to fix. The same idea applies to the other examples, like low level spells. Low level spells are very commonly used for long term basic buffs, so if you are eating them up for inefficient healing you are going to hurt your long term viability.

[skaddix]

Meh the fix would still be only works in combat against viable threats as deemed by your DM.
Or as I said arbitrary 1/2 CL and above challenge ratings.

[Desha]

Meh the fix would still be only works in combat against viable threats as deemed by your DM.
Or as I said arbitrary 1/2 CL and above challenge ratings.

I think Dr_Dinosaur answered that quite eloquently.

If the DM wants you at full health after every fight they can heal you to full after every fight.

Say it with me now: "Being able to fix it doesn't mean it's not broken!"

All game mechanics are arbitrary. The difference is whether you are trying to justify good mechanics or bad ones. CR or HD limitations can easily make sense by saying that you are drawing on the life force of the creature and creatures that are too weak don't provide enough energy for healing, or that your own adrenaline does not get worked up enough for weak challenges. Saying that the GM can fix it is an acceptable response for homebrew, but is it really okay for a professional product?

[skaddix]

You act like the DM has to go line by line instead of just saying no healing outside of combat that isn't a spell, wand, scroll or potion.


Granted I think we should get back to the actual material.

And my god I think Radiant is Broken...as far I can tell essence alone isn't that great of a cap on effectiveness. It figures the Poor BAB, d6 character is as broken as its brethren with such low hit die..

9th Level Maneuver you can basically full heal any d6 or d8 character class that didn't heavily invest into CON sure it cost 4 essence but still its basically a full combat reset.

8th Level Maneuvers can gut all defense from an opponent and boost dmg for the whole party and your other one allows you to utterly take a dumb on action economy and dogpile the BSG and heals everyone at the same time.

....so lots of healing for the whole party, breaks action economy for the whole party, takes a dump on spellcasters and can cripple most Bosses....the only thing this class cant do is raw damage but considering how great your setup is and how crippling you can be to Bosses...well you don't really need the raw dmg. And if you do well you can dip into another Discipline that provides the damage.

The Team Buffs of Golden Lion, The Healing of Silver Crane, The Action Economy of Riven Hourglass and The Spell Countering of Shattered Mirror....

[AGrinningCat]

That said Radiant Dawn seems pretty darn powerful judging by a quick read. It certainly seems to make poor Silver Crane Sad.

Silver Crane still has it's place! If you imagine a Venn diagram with 3 circles, one labeled 'Damage' 'Healing' and 'Utility/Support', Silver Crane fills the 'Healing' and 'Damage' portion, while Golden Lion fills 'Damage' and 'Utility'. Radiant Dawn then fills 'Healing' and 'Utility'. All in all, the bonus damage gained from strikes doesn't start until 3rd level, making the damage a bit 'stunted' for the class. There's obvious outliers and a bit of a simplification of the disciplines going on here, but it should have explained what we were going for.

All in all, damage is still important, which Radiant Dawn is purposefully lacking. Golden Lion and Silver Crane can still do Support and Healing respectively while still making living things deader!

[skaddix]

Yes as I noted the only thing Radiant Dawn lacks is Damage. Which might be liability on a smaller party but if you got at least 5-6 people in your party where everyone can afford to specialize...it doesn't really need to do the damage.

Certainly seems like it would go quite well with a Zealot as well as a Rajah.

[AGrinningCat]

Certainly seems like it would go quite well with a Zealot as well as a Rajah.

Castilonium actually has an excellent guide on Zealot & Radiant Dawn in their signature!

Question:How Spoils of War interact with Radiant Sunlight style feat?
Question,when target is bull rushed during Dismiss,does it count as a successful bull rush for something that activates from it,like Gatecrusher gambit?
As of now,my experience is that Rajah is...tricky.He basically requires the party built specifically around him,but when done so,serves as enormous force multiplier,multiplied further by Radiant Dawn.
At first level,Warlord with Improved Essence Capacity basically means that you can do nothing and be better in-combat buffer than Bard.But if party properly dances as you direct,you're also a front-liner with front-liner damage that doesn't actually need to be in the front line.This is...interesting experience.Certainly for my players.

These are quick answers since it's late at night, so if there's a problem, let me know and I'll look over them again!

1) Spoils of War/Radiant Dawn style feats
Yes, this is intended. Spoils of War is 'your' healing source, so any of your feats count for it.
2) It should, probably. Remind me to check if that sounds funny.
3) Rajah does require the team to be either in place (So you know you're a good fit going in) or the team to build around (To take advantage of what you can offer). Going off half-way can lead into some strange issues. This is why the archetypes are more solo focused!

As for dealing with Rajahs, archers have been my bane. Light armor and low HD means that any 'friend' lying with a bow, crossbow (or god forbid, guns) have given me my fair share of trouble. Even if I manage to counter for myself, that's counters I'm not using for allies, and swifts eaten up the next turn! So if you're playing along side a Rajah, watch out for those ranged enemies if you want to keep your titles on!

[Draacul]

2) It should, probably. Remind me to check if that sounds funny.

It's one more way to activate Gatecrusher.It doesn't sound funny(it does a bit break action economy,but who cares at this point?Extra bull rush is no extra spell),but it's useful.Also,it punches above it's level,with closest counterpart being Tactical Snap from Turtle.Which is second level and provides +2 competence bonus on trip and no bull rush.
But then,nobody in history took Tactical Snap,because 2nd level maneuver slots are the most rare thing in the game,containing most of Good Stuff.
In PoW:E there are multiple 2nd level tripping maneuvers,but they all have standard +2d6 damage,which suggests that trip is a really cheap rider...and bull rush is useless in most cases not involving Gatecrusher.

2) As for dealing with Rajahs, archers have been my bane.

Teammates make perfectly useful cover.Moreover,from practical standpoint it's not especially different who gets the counter,as long as the counter does it's job,unless opposition is overwhelming.
And Bolster makes archers cry.
As usually,the best counter to PoW-based combatants is PoW-based combatants.
Speaking of counters,if maneuver makes entitled flat-footed Rajah can still use counters on entitled if Rajah himself isn't flat-footed,correct?

This is why the archetypes are more solo focused

Is this an admission of at least one more solo-focused archetype in the works?
Also,i request something that will give House of Servants personalities.
They can carry a palanquin but can't participate in the conversation?What kind of servants are these?

[Wartex1]

This looks pretty interesting. I've never messed with Akasha before, so this just makes me excited to find out what the INT-based initiator to round out this current trio is.

[Wartex1]

Quick question:

Does Crown of the Sky Sovereign work with Sun's Gleam?

[MilleniaAntares]

Quick question:

Does Crown of the Sky Sovereign work with Sun's Gleam?

From my reading, it does.

Just keep in mind you lose the +charisma to damage if you use it as a non-vassalage strike.

[Draacul]

Just keep in mind you lose the +charisma to damage if you use it as a non-vassalage strike.

I object.Crown precludes adding Strength modifier or any ability substituted for it.Sun's Gleam uses Charisma from the start.

[Wartex1]

I found the answer to that question earlier in the thread. Sun's Gleam does not qualify as a weapon attack, so it does not work for Crown of the Sky Sovereign.

[calyst]

Hope there is a Rajah II book coming? Since the first release didn't have FCB, Items or any archetypes. Love that class playing it is a blast.