Incanter Class?

[Jaxter Gronaldi]

I would like to create a homebrew class, and I need help and feedback. My idea is for an incanter class:

They cast spells from a list THEY choose at 1st level. They always have a verbal component. However, they can cast THROUGH other items. Ex: I cast chill touch on this ring! Thus, the holder of the ring would have the ability to use chill touch once. This class would be able to enchant and StORE the spell, or attack through the item, such as damaging the holder of the chill touch rings. Whaddaya think?

[Afgncaap5]

I would like to create a homebrew class, and I need help and feedback. My idea is for an incanter class:

They cast spells from a list THEY choose at 1st level. They always have a verbal component. However, they can cast THROUGH other items. Ex: I cast chill touch on this ring! Thus, the holder of the ring would have the ability to use chill touch once. This class would be able to enchant and StORE the spell, or attack through the item, such as damaging the holder of the chill touch rings. Whaddaya think?

This might go better in the Homebrew board. Having said that:

I like a lot of the core ideas, it makes me think of a weird cross between a Bard and an Artificer. Having said that, I think some of the core ideas together might be a little too synergistically powerful. The ability of a class to choose their own spell list at level 1 is definitely strong, though if there are limitations you're planning on putting on it that might work out. The ability to store a spell in an item to allow someone else to use (or alternatively, retributively attack the person holding the item) gives more mobility options to the caster('s party). I'd make sure that the item either has some sort of timed duration, or make sure that the caster has some extra cost (say, losing access to the spell slot until the item the spell is stored in is used or otherwise deactivated.)

[Gildedragon]

That sounds like a bard that uses infusions instead of spells.

[Fouredged Sword]

1- You need to restrict the ability to chose their own spells to prevent silliness like pulling off the trapsmith spell list or some of the other early access spell lists. Restricting the class to the sorc/wiz, cleric, and druid list should be enough to give them access to 95% of all spells without problems with access to spells WAY before they should be available.

2- You need a good way to deal with spells with strange targeting that does not mesh well with items.

[Morphic tide]

I would like to create a homebrew class, and I need help and feedback. My idea is for an incanter class:

First, as has been mentioned, this should be in the Homebrew forum. Don't repost, ask a moderator to move the thread. Preferably by reporting your own post with the note that it needs moved. Second, class ideas are kinda rarely posted because they rarely get responses and largely seem kinda lazy.

They cast spells from a list THEY choose at 1st level. They always have a verbal component.

Hmm... Instead of choosing a list at first level, Spells Known is actually a great thing, here. You can always make it rather large numbers of known spells, and it's less punishing than locking in your selection at 1st level. I'd have it be Sorcerer, Wizard and Bard general spells, as well as Domains like Artifice and Craft. Keep the general Cleric and Druid list out, as those have a lot of stuff that makes problems. Bard has most of the healing spells, and you don't want a character that has access to the 9ths off of Cleric or Druid. Because they get... weird.

Like, it's not just being OP, it's that having Wizard, Sorcerer and Bard spells, alongside both Cleric and Druid spells results in a mess without any sort of coherent theme to it. And having a semi-coherent theme is a big, important thing to do for classes. Particularly base classes.

However, they can cast only THROUGH other items. Ex: I cast chill touch on this ring! Thus, the holder of the ring would have the ability to use chill touch once.

Bolded for a word I think you missed. And it sounds like a lot of spontaneous wand/scroll creation, which Artificer can already do quite well, so you need other advantages. Like making the items become basic magic items in line with the spell effect. Something like having duration tie to CL while the power of the enhancement ties to the spell level. Like, 3rd level spell giving a +3 Enhancement Bonus to Armor if put on a shield, with the minimum CL of 5 making it last a total of 5 rounds, lowering CL by 1 each round.

Nice way to have a good buffer without massively compromising the burst potential of the party. Those lengthier casting times should stay lengthy, so limited duration with one mode of use that enforces rapid use after casting and the other largely benefiting the type of character that needs the most help is a good way to ground the overall power of the class as a support.

This class would be able to enchant and StORE the spell, or attack through the item, such as damaging the holder of the chill touch rings. Whaddaya think?

What do you mean by enchant the spell? Having storing the spell be mentioned separately makes me think a lot of metamagic stuff. Which would give the class a nice niche in a caster-heavy party, as well as possibly being an excellent WBL-mancer by improving CLs and adding metamagic to other magic items. Possibly with in-class ability to make those items normally and recharge them, making it so that they can't be replaced by a wand-spamming Artificer entirely and, in fact, are synergistic with such Artificers by being able to recharge wands for them. And assist in making the wands.

Further things I'd throw in is Bardic Music with uses particularly thematic to the class, such as applying spells to items at longer ranges or in an area, or increasing durations on magical effects, partly to make the above situation with having the actual spells decay in CL over time a thing that can be mitigated. Automatic crafting feats for the ability to make Wands and Staves would also help out.

[Fouredged Sword]

Another point to consider is that this class sounds VERY passive, as in it's best use is to be totally passive and hand off all of it's spells each day to other party members to cast. This is a two fold problem. First, this class may nova VERY fast by handing out items to friendly party members or his familiar. Casting 4-8 8-9th level spells in a round fast.

Second, what is stopping the party fighter from taking leadership and gaining the equivalent of HD-2 incanter casting delivered though a ring gate from his friendly incanter cohort who sits at home crafting each day?

[Morphic tide]

Another point to consider is that this class sounds VERY passive, as in it's best use is to be totally passive and hand off all of it's spells each day to other party members to cast. This is a two fold problem. First, this class may nova VERY fast by handing out items to friendly party members or his familiar. Casting 4-8 8-9th level spells in a round fast.

Second, what is stopping the party fighter from taking leadership and gaining the equivalent of HD-2 incanter casting delivered though a ring gate from his friendly incanter cohort who sits at home crafting each day?

Well, my idea for this works around the issue by having the spells lose 1 CL per round they are active, but with the added effect of giving basic Enhancement bonuses to items they are applied to to make it worth waiting a few rounds to cast out of the item. Which makes blowing a 6th level spell as an Ehancement bonus is a decent choice in Epic play, because it offers DR/Epic workarounds without the party needing to dedicate resources to +6 weapons or spells dedicated to buffing weapons. And low-CL-viable spells can be used quite well.

Of course, given the lists they have access to, they are basically pigeonholed into having Bard slot progression, which actually makes it so that the 6th level spell for +6 bonus is a late game thing. Pre-Epic access to Epic bonuses is still a bad thing, but it's at least the least nasty Epic thing.

[Jaxter Gronaldi]

1: They can pick a class magic they specialize in, meaning their spells come from that spell list .

2: I meant they can cast defense to increase the power of items, like spiritual weapon in a broadsword so it would deal normal damage and spell damage.

3: they can cast a spell to go off automatically, to affect the holder, like shocking grasping a spear. Offensive uses!

3: they lose spell slots as long as an item is enchanted.

[Morphic tide]

1: They can pick a class magic they specialize in, meaning their spells come from that spell list.

Hmm... Perhaps have Spells Known with a limited ability to grab spells from other class lists? Like, 2 Spells Known per spell level being from any class? Universal spell access off of any single list is problematic at the best of times, it's what makes Clerics t1.

2: I meant they can cast defense to increase the power of items, like spiritual weapon in a broadsword so it would deal normal damage and spell damage.

Okay, this doesn't quite work without some very weird wording. This is because Spiritual Weapon is a weird spell due to making what is essentially a Dancing weapon that deals Force damage instead of physical damage. Exact details

3: they can cast a spell to go off automatically, to affect the holder, like shocking grasping a spear. Offensive uses!

There's a PRC that lets you apply Runes to items to do this. Even with all the restriction clauses, it still causes massive issues with being able to make **** up on the fly. One of the tactics archers with the PRC use is apply Runes to arrows set to go off when enemies come within a certain range, acting as a form of long-distance trap setting. The effect you are stating here is basically just temporary Spell Storing, and thus far more boring than the improvised trap arrows done to work around the Runes specifically being disallowed from going off on weapon attacks, which fits with having Infusions. Well, so does the improvised trap thing I mentioned.

Maybe have the Infusion list be mainly how you apply spells to things, rather than being actual spell equivalents? Like, you prepare what sort of application you use and decide on the specific spell right as you use it, so you can use an Infusion on a bow to have the next arrow/bolt fired do the improvised Rune proximity mine I mentioned above. A different option could be standard Spell Storing, in the sense of setting off the spell when hit or upon hitting.

4: they lose spell slots as long as an item is enchanted.

First, FTFY on the list number, second, the only way this even remotely works is if you are talking basic enhancement bonus. Otherwise they have infinite use spells. Unless you mean they spend spell slots to keep it going, which also works, but I think that would be better handled by giving them Bardic Music as a secondary/tertiary power source for fuelling some of the functions. Although the idea of having spell slots be invested into abilities in a way that prevents using the slot is a neat one for a reserve feat class. Bit too much overlap with Incarnum, but still nice.

Edit: To be clear, I'm thinking of the class in the sense of being a much more constrained to short-term effects and spontaneous version of Artificer. Like, making effects on the fly being it's whole thing. I'm basically trying to work out detailed mechanics from your ideas and posting the descriptions of some of the things I'm considering. I should probably give a try at actually making the class.