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  1. - Top - End - #91
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    RogueGuy

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXXVII

    i briefly thought of making a candle caster to take advantage of the casting of mysteries as magic spells loophole, but i couldn't get past the mystery choice without sabotaging the build in some way in the optimization of those.

  2. - Top - End - #92
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Darrin's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXXVII

    Quote Originally Posted by Heliomance View Post
    Get judging!
    I am somewhat curious... do we have any judges?
    Handbooks:
    Shax's Indispensable Haversack, TWF OffHandbook
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    Archon of Nine, Jellobomber, King of Pong, Lightning Thief
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    GOLD
    Verelka Thunderfoot (Serene Guardian)
    Vampire Hunter D (Risen Martyr)
    Vultag Thunderkeg (Great Rift Skyguard)
    SILVER
    Vreeb Veebilbrixt (Twisted Lord)
    Dokar Jaggedfang (Hand of the Winged Masters)
    BRONZE
    Black Sparrow (Master of Many Forms)


  3. - Top - End - #93
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    Thumbs up Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXXVII

    Quote Originally Posted by Darrin View Post
    I am somewhat curious... do we have any judges?
    My schedule is a bit hectic, but depending on how many afternoon shifts my wife is doing, I may throw my hat in the ring.

    I should have a better idea in the next couple of days, and will let everyone know.

  4. - Top - End - #94
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    DruidGuy

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXXVII

    #ermagod

    the waiting is excruciating!@

  5. - Top - End - #95
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    frown Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXXVII

    ...sorry all, but my wife is sick with the flu at the moment; and between looking after her and other commitments, seems unlikely I will get time to judge.

  6. - Top - End - #96
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    danielxcutter's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXXVII

    Quote Originally Posted by Thurbane View Post
    ...sorry all, but my wife is sick with the flu at the moment; and between looking after her and other commitments, seems unlikely I will get time to judge.
    I hope she gets well soon!
    Awesome custom psywar avatar made by Coronalwave. Thanks dude!

    Most of my old signature has been moved to the new extended signature.

  7. - Top - End - #97
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    Inevitability's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXXVII

    Quote Originally Posted by Thurbane View Post
    ...sorry all, but my wife is sick with the flu at the moment; and between looking after her and other commitments, seems unlikely I will get time to judge.
    That's okay: I hope your wife gets well soon!
    Gold: the color of lawful neutrality.

    Have you had enough of unreasonably high LA's and unplayable monsters in 3.5? Then check out the LA-assignment thread! Don't hesitate to give feedback!

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  8. - Top - End - #98
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXXVII

    Do we have any other judges willing to wade in?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalirren View Post
    The only person in the past two pages who has known what (s)he has been talking about is Heliomance.
    Quote Originally Posted by golentan View Post
    I just don't want to have long romantic conversations or any sort of drama with my computer, okay? It knows what kind of porn I watch. I don't want to mess that up by allowing it to judge any of my choices in romance.

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  9. - Top - End - #99
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXXVII

    Well... I've never tried judging a contest before. If there's no one else, I can head to the library tomorrow morning for a few hours and see what I can do.
    The beatings will continue until morale improves!

    Vaz approval for the best backstory. Villainous Competition 16: Burn Baby Burn
    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/shows...&postcount=114

    Honorable Mention Villainous Competition 22: I Am The Night
    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?http://531199-Villainous-Competition...e-Night!/page6

  10. - Top - End - #100
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    RogueGuy

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXXVII

    Quote Originally Posted by PrismCat21 View Post
    Well... I've never tried judging a contest before. If there's no one else, I can head to the library tomorrow morning for a few hours and see what I can do.
    Awesome. Judging is fun, if a bit tedious. Don't take the competitors disputes to be offensive and you'll do great.

  11. - Top - End - #101
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXXVII

    Alrighty, I just printed off all of the entries at the library. As long as Heliomance will extend it a little bit, I should have a quick judging done by about noon (Central time).
    Right now, I'm off to bed so I can go to work tonight Cheers
    The beatings will continue until morale improves!

    Vaz approval for the best backstory. Villainous Competition 16: Burn Baby Burn
    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/shows...&postcount=114

    Honorable Mention Villainous Competition 22: I Am The Night
    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?http://531199-Villainous-Competition...e-Night!/page6

  12. - Top - End - #102
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXXVII

    Judging complete. Couple quick notes,
    Spoiler: How you can expect me to judge
    Show

    All scores will start out with a score of 3, and will increase/decrease based on how well I believe youíve fit the category.

    Power: Power will be judged based on your chosen concept. How well it accomplishes what I believe youíve intended it to. Your Sweet Spot will be judged in itís own right, with the remaining levels taken into consideration

    Elegance: Simple builds are good. Builds with many dips and templates can be good. It will all depend on how theyíre put together. If a bunch of dips seem unnecessary, or like you just took them for a power boost, itíll probably cost you. Though, you may very well make up for it in Power.
    If it all works together for a common theme, or you need them for prerequisites, Iíll likely be more forgiving.

    Originality: Iím looking for new, uncommon, unusual, and fun builds thatíll make you say, ďCool!Ē, or make me giggle. Show me some nice combos or tricks you can pull off. Bland and common abilities will receive similar scores. That doesnít make them bad, just common.

    Use of Secret Ingredient: As Shadowsmith is 10 levels long, each level you take will grant you 0.1 point. How it fits with the rest of the build, the way you use it, will determine the rest of the score.

    This is just a general guideline for me. It may not follow exactly


    Spoiler: Dax Shadowstriker
    Show
    Power: I agree that your Sweet Spot comes inline at level 14. However, by that time youíre not getting too much use out of your Spellthiefís abilities to steal/absorb spells and slaís. I know itís not the main focus of the character, but itís a large part of the build. The usefulness of only knowing 1st level spells and ablility to steal spells of up to 3rd level, drops off pretty quick at mid levels.
    Youíve said a couple times that ďAny fool can swing a sword, until you take that sword away from him.Ē You seem to have no points in Sleight of Hand until level 14, how are you taking any attended item from someone until that point? Your concept seems to be to take whatever you want whenever you want, but I donít see the mechanics allowing you to against folks of roughly the same level.
    Those are just my two biggest grips with the Power category. With that said, you do have plenty of respectable abilities. Decent Craft, Hide, Move Silently and Open Lock allow you to do what you say you want to. Disable Device could certainly come online earlier. Youíve mentioned your defenses and how youíd use your spells and mysteries, and to what use youíd put your shadowcrafting to, and how youíd escape sticky situations. Like you said, this is not a front line combatant, heís a solo character, and he is decent at what he wants to do.
    All-in-all a solid score of 3.0

    Elegance: This build is put together nicely. Itís straightforward, no unnecessary dips or feats. Everything seems to be where it needs to be, and you meet all prerequisites. You know what you want him to do and stick to it. I think I understand why you stopped putting ranks in Craft, you only need to take 10 to get what you need. In combat though you might not be able to. My big gripe is that you didnít specify your craft skill. Nevermind, itís there at first level. I missed it somehow.
    I see no issues 5.0

    Originality: Frickiní KenderÖ just kidding, Iíve honestly always liked them. Using an Afflicted Kender and pretending to be a generic one to help you get away with your crimes, is a very nice touch. Youíve turned the innocent natural tendencies of the Kender, as well as their hatred of thieves, capitalized it and made it your bread and butter. I donít think the world of Krynn will ever truly be ready for diabolical Kender. The problem is, everyone expects you to take things, they just wonít know at first that itís with malicious intent. Itís a twist to the classic Kender. 3.5

    UoSI: Six levels = +0.6. You donít make Shadowsmith the primary focus of your build, and thatís fine. Itís influence is subtle but certainly felt. You made the secret ingredient your theme and had your other abilities complement it. The use of Shadowdancer is a nice touch and fits well. 4.6

    I fully support Dax in all his endeavors. He seems like he would be a fun character to play an would always have something to do, or steal. I imagine heíd go through quite a few partyís, either from stealing all the good stuff from them and skipping out, or skipping out on them during a particularly dangerous encounter, leaving them all to die.


    Spoiler: Nurgle Helmstone
    Show

    Power: Nurgle isnít the strongest Dwarf out there, but he may certainly be the heaviest. You have some potential staying power with the poisonous healing. Node spellcasting and Elder Evil shenanigans are pretty cheesy to me, but I believe technically allowed, and they do boost your potential quite a bit.

    However, Iím not convinced your build actually works. You seem to rely primarily on Hammer and Piton and shadowcraft poison shenanigans. H&P doesnít actually allow you to Ďrideí your target. If your foe is large or bigger AND at least one size larger than you, H&P allow a Ďspecialí climb check to enter their space and stay in their space with them if they move. Nothing to suggest you may climb them with a climb check and crush them beneath your weight or ride them to death. I donít even believe you can use the ride skill to stay atop them if you do manage to get there. Page 204 of the DMG says that ďA mount must be able and willing to carry a rider in a typical fashion. I donít beilieve your opponent would be considered a mount.

    Making your poisons with shadowcraft is a problem for me as well. I believe itís possible, but I canít believe you can just pull out a vial full of evil (poison) with Craft(glassblowing). Taken in separate steps I might be okay with it, the way you suggest you can use it Iím not okay with.

    All-in-all, youíre able to Ďpull your own weightí with your various abilities, but I believe youíd be hard-pressed to stay relevant. I also did not see a Sweet Spot for your build, you said not to play Nurgle until level 6. Was that it? Did I miss it? 2.5

    Elegance: Oh sweet Bahamut, Tiamet, and Io. So much about this build had me pulling my short hair out. Iíll just do a quick rundown of my major issues.
    Iím general okay with variant and alternate class features, as long as you take more than a couple levels and it fits a theme. Thatís not what happened here. Half a dozen variant/alternate features across three classes and five levels, and a couple that are not applicable. Favored terrain gives a link instead of a book and page number like the rest have, and itís a Ranger feature that you used for Barbarian. Fox Totem is actually Fox Spiritual Totem from Complete Champion, not Unearthed Arcana, AND is for a Barbarian, not Ranger. I understand how and why you applied it and it makes sense, but it isnít rules legal and would be a 100% DM decision to allow it.
    Nodes, Elder Evils, and Otyough Hole is just complete the chedder buffet
    Using an Otyough Hole for Iron Will I think is the tamest cheese this build has.
    Also, starting at 6th level and onward, there is a number at the beginning of the skills section and I have no idea what itís for. The extra listing of bonus feats in the class features section was confusing at first to. Hard 1.0

    Originality: I like the concept. The images it brings to mind makes me giggle and Iíd like to see someone pull it off. Nurgle just isnít mechanically able to do so. You worked hard to make everything fit together the way you thought it could, and it shows. I am a bit disappointed you didnít nab Improved Grab somewhere, (like Bear Spiritual Totem), so you could use your 10 ft. Chameleon tongue to grab onto people. 4.0

    UoSI: Ten levels = +1.0. You make good use of Shadowsmithís skills, shadowtouch, and shadowcraft for pitons and (potentially) poisons. Not much mention of the rest of the class though. 4.5

    I really do like this concept, but it's much too messy the way it is right now.


    Spoiler: Aya Shadowlight
    Show
    Power: Sweet Spot. Iím fairly certain level 8 is your Sweet Spot, I just donít see it explicitly stated.
    You become a powerhouse at this point. No evil creature/bad guy would dare stand in your way, (if he could find you). Earlier levels you were competent, what you lacked in items and magic, you made up nicely for with Vow of Poverty. I love the way you were able to optimize VoP for your build. I canít even consider Shadowcrafted items as a nonmaterial possession, cheese. It fits perfectly with VoP.
    Youíve listed various strategies and uses for Shadowcrafting, and most importantly, explained exactly why they work and/or how to get around any restrictions to your abilities.
    All your levels mesh well together and complement each other. You stay strong and relevant from beginning to end. You know exactly what you wanted to do, and got it done. Youíve listed alternatives depending on different interpretations. You share similar weaknesses to other stealthy precision characters, but have options to stay useful. Ayaís ability scores are amazing considering no material possessions :) 4.5

    Elegance: This build is concise and simple. Your one variant feature was not just a dip, itís a primary feature of your build. Everything is organized nicely and easy to understand. Every important feature is explained adequately and alternatives are even offered.
    Scarlet Corsair feels a bit tacked on. It fits wonderfully, but only knowing what I do about the Aya from the short introduction, it seems like you just wanted something to finish the build. I wish there was more of a story about Aya. 4.8

    Originality: Finding a way to optimize VoP is always cause for celebration. Youíve taken a common theme (Flask Rogue), and negated the biggest cost to using them (the cost of materials). Youíre able to out Rogue a Rogue in many ways, without any Rogue levels. Thatís just as daring and inventive as a Rogue could hope to be.
    Your strategies and abilities are somewhat common, but you have your own signature twist to them and use them well. 4.0

    UoSI: Ten levels = +1.0. You make great use of shadowcraft, mysteries, and skill bonuses, but what about the rest of the class? It doesnít really effect Aya much, but itís be good to know how she would use them.
    Solid 4.5

    Can Aya be considered a Pirate/Ninja? The best of both worlds.


    Spoiler: Natasha, The Overshadowed
    Show
    Power: No Sweet Spot that I can see. You start out strong with Warblade, and that seems to be a large part of your power for most of your build. Which is just fine since you are more an entertainer than a soldier. Based upon the end of Natashaís backstory and the descriptions at various levels, I thought for sure youíd have the Perform skill, I was pretty disappointed. Looking at your build again I realized my mistake, Natasha is using persuasive perform by using Craft. :D. Iím glad I caught that. Your best abilities seem to come a bit late, and since I donít know your sweet spot Iím going to assume itís late in the build. Darkstalker and the soulmelds definitely boost your available power.
    You accomplish what I believe you intend to. Natasha is a combatant second, but still a worthy one. You state clearly how youíd use your abilities and they interact well with each other. 4.0

    Elegance: I absolutely adore that backstory. The titles for each section was a cute touch. The build is quick and simple, and everything seems to be in the proper place. Except your alignment. I am not able to find it. You give a short description for your playtips, but itís a bit too short. Especially levels 5 and 20. Iíd liked to have seen more thorough playtips detailing strategies and maybe alternative play styles. You do explain how you chose her mysteries and mentioned most of your abilities in some way. 3.5

    Originality: Natasha is just cool. The backstory gave her life and makes it easy to imagine her at any level. Sheís a competent combatant that thrives while performing her ĎCraftí.
    She exemplifies what it means to be an Exemplar (Iíll stop) She makes me think about old Chinese theater.
    Sheís a conar-tist, distracting the masses while at the same time emptying their pockets. I approve. 4.0

    UoSI: Ten levels = +1.0. You mention and make use of all the features of Shadowsmith in some way. You entered into it early, but were late to finish. Thatís okay. Youíre use of Exemplar fitís right in with your intended use of Shadowsmith. You werenít delaying in finishing the class, you were improing upon itís foundation. 5.0

    I think I may steal Natasha for my players for a little bit. They're recently arrived to a fancy town and have expressed interest in local entertainment. They'll gonna be sorry


    Spoiler: Darkshot Shadowmover
    Show
    Power: You certainly have a powerfully big pair on you. RAW, sacrificing shadowcrafted items for your Ancestral Relic ímightí work. Whether shadowcrafted items are worth anything is unclear enough that Iíll accept it with a side of Gouda. I donít know if your Sweet Spot is more or less cheesy, but I like it. :D
    As you said, youíre a Rogue, you do Rogue things and you are mighty indeed at Rogue things. Ancestral Relic, Dark Stalker, Oxyrhynchus, Sight Eclipsed, and plethora of skills all bust your power through the roof. Assuming Shadowcraft can do everything you want it to, you can make nearly any item anywhere. With the heavy cheddar though, imma have to dock ya. 4.0

    Elegance: Darkshotís Rogue and Shadowsmith abilities combine marvelously. Youíve stated clearly how all your abilities are used, and combined. There is no unnecessary muck anywhere that I can see. A potential problem exists for Planar Rogue substitution level but you handled it nicely. The cheesiness doesnít matter here since thatís already been docked. My only gripe is that I only see the Halfling Rogue substitution level mentioned twice, once in the levels 11-13 snpshot, and once in the resources. When I first looked at your build I figured thatís what you were going for, but I couldnít find it until I got near the end. It made it a bit confusing. 4.9

    Originality: At first glance, a typical ranged Halfling Rogue. You definitely took it a few levels further. Most things a regular Rogue can do, you can do as well and probably better. Problem is, a Rogue with god-like crafting and sniping is still a Rogue at heart. You get bumped up for your off the wall thinking though. 3.5

    UoSI: Ten levels = +1.0. Youíve pasted Shadowsmith and Rogue together so nicely with hunks of cheese, itís like a work of art. (Did you craft it?) Youíve mentioned how Darkshot can use all his abilities and have suggested fun uses for Shadowcraft, and have argued nice;y why they should be allowed. Iím against much of it, but thatís a biased opinion. 5.0

    Personally, Iíd say that when you sacrificed shadowcrafted items for your Ancestral relic, the benefit would disappear after 1d4 rounds. Since thatís what happens when you let go of the item.
    Alternatively, Iíd argue that theyíd be worth nothing when sacrificed. So it wouldnít matter what or how much you tried to sacrifice.


    Spoiler: Brokk, the Anvil Soul
    Show
    Power: I thought I saw a mention of your Sweet Spot somewhere, but I canít find it. (I may just be seeing things after judging so many in such a short time.) Iím going to assume itís at level 15 or shortly after. You certainly kick butt early level with those Totemist binds. Your versatility at all levels and adaption while leveling always make you a force to be rec.koned with. Youíve chosen primarily to fight with natural weapons until higher levels where you incorporate your special weapons. You seem to be a front line melee combatant that can shred foes with ease and then seemingly disappear in this air. Your defenses are fantastic with what you have to work with, especially higher level. Brokk embodies your theme well. A solid 3.75

    Elegance: The build is precise and uncomplicated. Your abilities, while not all exactly fitting together, can work together. They donít interfere with each other. Ironsoul Forgemaster is good option to combine the themes from the other two classes(Incarnum and Crafting).
    I have a gripe. Brokk takes the feat Double Bind(Totem) at level 9. That feat requires a Meldshaper level of 9 to take. By my calculations Brokk only has a MSL of 7. Did I miscalculate somewhere? If not. 3.75

    Originality: A Dwarf craft weapons and armor, Iíve see it bef...WAIT! Whatís this? Combining Incarnum, the power of souls, and Shadow?!? Iím a bit scared and excited to see what comes of it. You took an old stereotype and gave it a kick in the keister, infusing new life and soul into it(literally.) 4.0

    UoSI: Ten levels = +1.0. You use every ability in Shadowsmith and incorporate it into the rest of your build with ease. Thereís a lot of synergy with Ironsoul Forgemaster, which in turn helps it synergize with Totemist. Full marks good sir. 5.0

    When I was judging your build, I began thinking about the Dwarfs in Ghostwalk who guard the entrance to the afterlife. ...whose souls are you using again...?


    Spoiler: Keyrock, Unfrozen Caveman Lawyer
    Show
    Power: Hitting things, for you, is more of a hobby. Something you do to calm yourself down and/or gain focus. Your real power comes from your Defense (Yes, both legal and otherwise ) You can talk your way out of most anything, and for the things you canít, youíre able to take the beating and eventually escape anyway. Not really a whole lot of versatility. Youíre a Lawyer, not a Fighter. People still want to hit you but theyíre not allowed while youíre talking. 4.0

    Elegance: Iím guessing an Intern was assigned to proof-read this document. Surely Keyrock himself wouldnít make these mistakes. Your ability increases chart does not match the class features section. There are at least six discrepancies (levels 8, 12, two at 15, 16, and 20). The DR issue at level 9 is allowed in my courtroom. When infront of your next judge I suggest you make a preemptive appeal. Right now Keyrock is only a Junior Partner in the firm. To make Partner, a level or two in Exemplar would indeed have been desirable with Skill Artistry: Profession(Lawyer).
    Build is fairly simple and well thought out. Aside from the Ability Increases (darn interns) everything is exactly where is needs to be in a concise easy to read format.
    Edit: I overlooked the two Flaws at the beginning of the build. Unfortunately, each Flaw comes with a penalty of one point. Score updated.
    Overall 2.5

    Originality: Easily the most original build in my eyes, but the abilities do leave something to be desired. You chose an off the wall theme and stuck to it like a court-ordered conjugal visit. The Backstory was amazing and set the mood for the entire piece. Destroying a self-made magic item for class forswearing magic is gold. 4.5

    UoSI: Eight levels = +0.8. What abilities you can use, you do use well. Theyíre thematically appropriate where fluff is considered. Being able to use your magical abilities on a technicality will boost you up. Being unable to use all available abilities will still hurt ya. 3.8

    Having a Caveman Lawyer who qualifies for and uses things with crunch, that is against fluff tickled me :D

    Spoiler: appropriate meme
    Show
    Last edited by PrismCat21; 2017-08-08 at 01:04 PM. Reason: Updated scores

  13. - Top - End - #103
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXXVII

    I never did total up everyone's scores, but most were high. I'm gonna have to fine tune my process if I do this again.
    Not bad for eight hours of work though.
    The beatings will continue until morale improves!

    Vaz approval for the best backstory. Villainous Competition 16: Burn Baby Burn
    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/shows...&postcount=114

    Honorable Mention Villainous Competition 22: I Am The Night
    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?http://531199-Villainous-Competition...e-Night!/page6

  14. - Top - End - #104
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    RogueGuy

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXXVII

    Thanks for judging!

  15. - Top - End - #105
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXXVII

    Wow, that's some fast delivery on your promise! Much appreciated.
    Kolyarut Avatar by Potatocubed.
    Quote Originally Posted by willpell View Post
    Only playing Tier 1s is like only eating in five-star restaurants [...] sometimes I just want a cheeseburger and some frogurt. Why limit yourself?
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  16. - Top - End - #106
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    Post Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXXVII

    Scores before disputes (assuming I haven't made any errors):

    Entry Prismcat21 Score Total Score Ranking
    Aya Shadowlight 17.8 17.8 1st
    Darkshot Shadowmover 17.4 17.4 2nd
    Keyrock, Unfrozen Caveman Lawyer 16.8 16.8 3rd
    Natasha, The Overshadowed 16.5 16.5 4th/5th
    Brokk, the Anvil Soul 16.5 16.5 4th/5th
    Dax Shadowstriker 16.1 16.1 6th
    Nurgle Helmstone 12.0 12.0 7th

    ...my HM goes to Keyrock.

  17. - Top - End - #107
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXXVII

    Quote Originally Posted by The Viscount View Post
    Wow, that's some fast delivery on your promise! Much appreciated.
    Well, the deadline was up. I figured it'd be best to not make people wait even longer. :)
    The beatings will continue until morale improves!

    Vaz approval for the best backstory. Villainous Competition 16: Burn Baby Burn
    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/shows...&postcount=114

    Honorable Mention Villainous Competition 22: I Am The Night
    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?http://531199-Villainous-Competition...e-Night!/page6

  18. - Top - End - #108
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    DruidGuy

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXXVII

    how does one go about the dispute process?

  19. - Top - End - #109
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXXVII

    Quote Originally Posted by jdizzlean View Post
    how does one go about the dispute process?
    Send it via PM to the Chairperson I think, if you have a problem with how a judge scored a catagory on your entry.
    Awesome custom psywar avatar made by Coronalwave. Thanks dude!

    Most of my old signature has been moved to the new extended signature.

  20. - Top - End - #110
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXXVII

    Quote Originally Posted by PrismCat21 View Post
    Well, the deadline was up. I figured it'd be best to not make people wait even longer. :)
    Great judging, PrismCat21.
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXXVII

    Disputes:

    Quote Originally Posted by Dax Shadowstrider
    Power: I agree that your Sweet Spot comes inline at level 14. However, by that time youíre not getting too much use out of your Spellthiefís abilities to steal/absorb spells and slaís. I know itís not the main focus of the character, but itís a large part of the build. The usefulness of only knowing 1st level spells and ablility to steal spells of up to 3rd level, drops off pretty quick at mid levels.
    Youíve said a couple times that ďAny fool can swing a sword, until you take that sword away from him.Ē You seem to have no points in Sleight of Hand until level 14, how are you taking any attended item from someone until that point? Your concept seems to be to take whatever you want whenever you want, but I donít see the mechanics allowing you to against folks of roughly the same level.
    Those are just my two biggest grips with the Power category. With that said, you do have plenty of respectable abilities. Decent Craft, Hide, Move Silently and Open Lock allow you to do what you say you want to. Disable Device could certainly come online earlier. Youíve mentioned your defenses and how youíd use your spells and mysteries, and to what use youíd put your shadowcrafting to, and how youíd escape sticky situations. Like you said, this is not a front line combatant, heís a solo character, and he is decent at what he wants to do.
    All-in-all a solid score of 3.0
    the judge makes light of the fact that the ability to steal 3rd level spells becomes "less powerful" at mid range and so on. Even just using the Core PHB, here's a few 1-3 lvl spells (theme appropriate) that would stay amazing all the way through to end game. I think some confusion was thinking that they are cast at my lvl, when a spellthief casts stolen spells at the original caster's lvl, and therefore you can still go toe to toe as it were.

    Grease, Tasha's Hideous Laughter, Darkness, Inivisibility, Shatter, Blink, Dispel Magic, Bestow Curse, Pass w/o Trace, Stone Shape, SNA/Summon Monster 1-3, Web, Knock, Hold Person.

    The first lvl spells i chose: Feather Fall, Spontaneous Search, Nerveskitter are all theme appropriate, and never have a power drop as the build continues. Even at later levels, you could rob, blink/shadow jump to the other side of a window, drop from the castle, cast feather fall as an immediate action, settle safely to the ground, use hide in plain sight to disappear, and slink away.

    Next, the judge states that my quote, "any fool can swing a sword, until you take that sword away from them" is dependent on the use of Sleight of Hand. The build is more geared towards sneaking and peaking, not direct action, so taking the sword, or whatever, would happen when they're sleeping, or when not at home. Sleight of hand comes online later in the build as it's cross class until lvl 14, and there's skill taxes to consider before that. Besides, you can steal shatter and simply destroy the weapon. you can steal hold person and paralyze them, then take it away when they are defenseless to stop you. Pick Pocketing is not the only way to do a thing.


    all this w/o the cheese of VoP, or some of the things other builds w/ higher scores have done w/ questionable mechanics.


    Originality: Frickiní KenderÖ just kidding, Iíve honestly always liked them. Using an Afflicted Kender and pretending to be a generic one to help you get away with your crimes, is a very nice touch. Youíve turned the innocent natural tendencies of the Kender, as well as their hatred of thieves, capitalized it and made it your bread and butter. I donít think the world of Krynn will ever truly be ready for diabolical Kender. The problem is, everyone expects you to take things, they just wonít know at first that itís with malicious intent. Itís a twist to the classic Kender. 3.5
    everything about the race is a direct augmentation to the build. and everything about the classes is a direct benefit to the race. Nothing was chosen for fluff's sake. Everyone expects Kender to take things, yes, but they also expect that you do it uncounsiously and therefore generally more or less don't get that upset by it. portraying the hurt "innocent" when in fact you are something else entirely is classic villian-esque.



    even an increase of a single point would put me in medal contention. I think the Power score is the biggest place where that can and should happen when compared to the other builds and the reasoning behind their scores. combat damage isn't the only measure of power in a build.
    Also, a note that Keyrock took two flaws, and that no account of this was taken in the judging. Per the OP:
    Elegance... Use of flaws is considered in poor taste, and judges are asked to take a dim view of this option, taking it into account while grading.
    While the rules no longer mandate an automatic penalty of one point per flaw taken, we do ask that some penalty is levied at the discretion of the judges.
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXXVII

    My hm goes to keyrock also.

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXXVII

    Is PrismCat still around? Seems like we're a few dispute responses from wrapping this up. I was hoping that I'd have a new SI to optimize by tomorrow, as I'll be on a long flight in need of things to do.

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXXVII

    Someone PM'ed him?

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXXVII

    Quote Originally Posted by WhamBamSam View Post
    Is PrismCat still around? Seems like we're a few dispute responses from wrapping this up. I was hoping that I'd have a new SI to optimize by tomorrow, as I'll be on a long flight in need of things to do.
    was wondering the same thing.
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXXVII

    I've done so just now.
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXXVII

    Sorry for the delay. I was out of town, returned home last night.

    Disputes: Dax Shadowstriker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dax Shadowstriker
    the judge makes light of the fact that the ability to steal 3rd level spells becomes "less powerful" at mid range and so on. Even just using the Core PHB, here's a few 1-3 lvl spells (theme appropriate) that would stay amazing all the way through to end game. I think some confusion was thinking that they are cast at my lvl, when a spellthief casts stolen spells at the original caster's lvl, and therefore you can still go toe to toe as it were.

    Grease, Tasha's Hideous Laughter, Darkness, Inivisibility, Shatter, Blink, Dispel Magic, Bestow Curse, Pass w/o Trace, Stone Shape, SNA/Summon Monster 1-3, Web, Knock, Hold Person.

    The first lvl spells i chose: Feather Fall, Spontaneous Search, Nerveskitter
    You know three spells in total. Feather Fall, Spontaneous Search, and Nerveskitter. They are good spells and fit thematically. Every other spell you list are only possibilities. Yes, they also good spells, but there is no guarantee that Dax will have access to them. IF you know that a creature is able to cast them, and IF you're able to sneak attack them, and IF you specify which one you want, THEN you'll have access to ONE spell/sla. Otherwise it's random.
    You can't list specific spells that you only have a chance to access as a reason you're more powerful.

    3rd level spells do become less powerful (relatively) as you advance in level. They are great at lower levels. 5th and 6th level spells are powerful at mid-level, 8th and 9th at high levels. Lower level spells are still useful, but not game changing. The higher you advance, the more ways you have off dealing with lower level effects.

    There was no confusion at all in how Dax casts the stolen spells.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dax Shadowstriker
    Next, the judge states that my quote, "any fool can swing a sword, until you take that sword away from them" is dependent on the use of Sleight of Hand. The build is more geared towards sneaking and peaking, not direct action, so taking the sword, or whatever, would happen when they're sleeping, or when not at home. Sleight of hand comes online later in the build as it's cross class until lvl 14, and there's skill taxes to consider before that. Besides, you can steal shatter and simply destroy the weapon. you can steal hold person and paralyze them, then take it away when they are defenseless to stop you. Pick Pocketing is not the only way to do a thing.
    I realize Dax is not geared toward direct action, and works best at sneaking and peaking. Direct action is still required at some point. It's still considered as part of your power, just not the biggest part.
    What are you going to do when you're not able to engage them while they're completely defenseless? Who are you stealing Hold Person from? How are you stealing it without direct action?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dax Shadowstriker
    all this w/o the cheese of VoP, or some of the things other builds w/ higher scores have done w/ questionable mechanics.
    Do not bring other builds into this dispute. Each one was judged individually, without influence from the others. If I gave someone a higher score, then I believed they did a better job illustrating their characters abilities.

    Calling out another competitor and comparing them is simply bad form.
    Score: Unchanged.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Dax Shadowstriker
    everything about the race is a direct augmentation to the build. and everything about the classes is a direct benefit to the race. Nothing was chosen for fluff's sake. Everyone expects Kender to take things, yes, but they also expect that you do it uncounsiously and therefore generally more or less don't get that upset by it. portraying the hurt "innocent" when in fact you are something else entirely is classic villian-esque.
    Perhaps you didn't get that I was complimenting you. I enjoyed the way you used Afflicted Kender to help disquise Dax's actions. Your score was increased because of it.
    I don't understand what you mean by "Nothing was chosen for fluff's sake". Wasn't the primary reason for choosing Afflicted Kender because of the fluff surrounding the general Kender race as a whole?
    You don't get the mechanical benefit of 'innocently stealing' by being Kender, because you're an Afflicted Kender. Instead, you play on people's expectations surrounding the 'fluff' of a Kender 'innocently stealing'.

    "portraying the hurt "innocent" when in fact you are something else entirely is classic villian-esque"
    So... classic. As in, well-known. Common. Unoriginal.
    You put a good spin on it. I gave you credit for it.
    Score: Unchanged



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    Quote Originally Posted by Dax Shadowstriker
    even an increase of a single point would put me in medal contention. I think the Power score is the biggest place where that can and should happen when compared to the other builds and the reasoning behind their scores. combat damage isn't the only measure of power in a build
    No, combat damage is not the only measure of power. Nowhere, I believe, did I ever suggest as much, in any build. No mention at all in my post explaining roughly how I would judge.

    Please, leave other competitor's entries out of your disputes.


    Quote Originally Posted by Heliomance
    Also, a note that Keyrock took two flaws, and that no account of this was taken in the judging.
    Well crud. I completely missed that. Elegence will be reduced by two points. Scores will be updated shortly.


    Bronze Medal is now shared by two entries I believe.
    Last edited by PrismCat21; 2017-08-08 at 01:14 PM.

  28. - Top - End - #118
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    Post Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXXVII

    Scores updated for post-dispute modifications:

    Entry Prismcat21 Score Total Score Ranking
    Aya Shadowlight 17.8 17.8 1st
    Darkshot Shadowmover 17.4 17.4 2nd
    Natasha, The Overshadowed 16.5 16.5 3rd/4th
    Brokk, the Anvil Soul 16.5 16.5 3rd/4th
    Dax Shadowstriker 16.1 16.1 5th
    Keyrock, Unfrozen Caveman Lawyer 14.8 14.8 6th
    Nurgle Helmstone 12.0 12.0 7th

  29. - Top - End - #119
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXXVII

    Looks like we should be ready then, thanks for the chart, Thurbane.

    I'll add my HM nomination for Keyrock.
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXXVII

    HM is Keyrock here as well.
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