Do You Need Superpowers To Become A Superhero?

[Anonymouswizard]

Maybe.

Now, as has been said, it all depends on your perspective on am what a power is. Most 'nonpowered' superheroes manage to pull off amazing feats.

On the subject of Tony Stark, I want to compare his movie origin (amazing technology, in a cave, 'with a box of scraps:), with the original comic origin (amazing technology, based off of things it has already been established he knows a lot about, to the point of selling similar technology to the US military, with at the very least adequate raw materials). It's still built rather fast, and die amazing things, but the idea with the original comic suit was that he was using the transistors he had developed for everything (on a side note, transistors do not work like that, they're incredibly useful devices but won't let you select bullets with magnetism). Then instead of the miracle technology to provide power the comic immediately establishes that the suit takes time to charge and that Tony's helpless while doing so. It's still super inventing, but at a lower level.

Abd the scale of nonpowered powers is even greater, from the extreme that believable (occasional feats of fantastic strength that harm the body), to the relatively mundane mundane (running sightly faster than the fastest a human has been recorded to do so) to the 'this just makes no sense' (falling from orbit with no protective measures and landing in the ocean, and surviving, and doing so repeatably).

In general a nonpowered superhero will be close to the 'huh' end than bit Inc at least one category.

[Leewei]

The answer really looks to be "no," as discussed by previous posters citing some good examples. That said, I want to run off on two tangents.

1) Superpowered people need to be somewhere in existence for this genre to work. In Watchmen, a deconstruction of the genre, Doctor Manhatten is the only overtly superpowered character. Ozymandias is arguably intelligent to the degree where this is a super-power. Everyone else just runs around in tights. The formula is also used in Bratpack, another (even darker!) deconstruction. In most comics, however, superpowered individuals are the majority, with gadgeteers and martial artists making up a minority.

2) Interestingly, some universes such as Worm and Strong Female Protagonist have classification of gadgeteers and martial artist abilities as a superpower. (Tinker and Thinker classifications exist in Worm, and these powers are explicitly from the same sources as those granting flight and nigh-invulnerability.)

[Kato]

Yes, you need the super power of plot. The ability to withstand things that no human could walk away from and to survive things, any human would die from. And that's just the blessing of the author, to have you take as much damage as he wants you to.

No human being could go through and/or due many of the things Batman does. If he has shown nothing else, and I'm sure if I was more familiar with the comics I could list other examples, he has been shown to have inhuman endurance. He has been shown to have inhuman luck. There are just things he does, a normal person can not do, so any claims to Batman being "normal" are pretty invalid. The same goes for many if not most others. It doesn't matter how good Stark's suit is, there are just things an armored suit can't protect you from.
The limits of what is humanly possible are vague at the edges but even presumably human superheroes cross them often enough. I'm sure there exist other stories with more realistic depictions of what normal humans can suffer but Batman, Ironman, etc, certainly go beyond that often enough.


Of course the definition of super hero here is kind of relevant... you can be a normal hero as a person, there are plenty of those in different ways, but unless you clearly define what makes a hero "super", it's hard to say whether a person can be a super hero (irl)

[Lemmy]

Well, Lemmy Kilmister was definitely some kind of superhuman, right?

Yes, he was. I'm half-convinced he'll return to life in the next DC reboot.

Spoiler: Also, this

Show

Thanks you for giving me a context in which that image is appropriate.

[Bartmanhomer]

Ok my turn now. I guess the reason that non-power heroes survived for two reasons: Either they're got so much luck on their side or they're very skillful.

[Kantaki]

Ok my turn now. I guess the reason that non-power heroes survived for two reasons: Either they're got so much luck on their side or they're very skillful.

Aye, but at which point do "luck" and "skill" stop being merely luck and skill and start to be more?

[Bartmanhomer]

Aye, but at which point do "luck" and "skill" stop being merely luck and skill and start to be more?

Gee. I never thought of that.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Long before you get your own title, it seems.

[Zmeoaice]

Are firefighters superheroes? They use fancy gadgets and armor to save people.

[Shamash]

Yes, otherwise you're just a hero.

[Kantaki]

Are firefighters superheroes? They use fancy gadgets and armor to save people.

They are if they use their gear to fight fire elementals.
Or dragons.
Or the very forces of hell.

You know, I would totaly read that (comic) book.
Or watch the movie.

[BiblioRook]

They are if they use their gear to fight fire elementals.
Or dragons.
Or the very forces of hell.

You know, I would totaly read that (comic) book.
Or watch the movie.

I think I would too.

That aside though I think that can be a good distinguisher, the 'super' in superhero referring to ether the the individual or what the individual is up against.

[FreddyNoNose]

I was just wondering that question today. There's a few non-powers superheroes that be all odds these days. Take Batman for example, he foughts many villains (Powers and non-powers villains) and he beat all odds and still survives. So I'm asking everyone, Do you need superpowers to become a superhero?

If the character in question can say Yes, a hamburger is a sandwich, then yes, he can be a superhero without superpowers!

[jayem]

Are firefighters superheroes? They use fancy gadgets and armor to save people.

Yes, otherwise you're just a hero.

Hmm, I think that gives me a handle on what I've been thinking. To be a superhero you basically have to be well beyond a hero. Being a firefighter, you could replace with 1000s of other firefighters, all factors together they might be 1 in a million, but they're basically within the bell curve, and they'll be someone else nearly as good. Even if your the best, they'll be others close, and it will be a narrow gap.

Superheros however go beyond that, you start at being the one the president calls by name, when there's an emergency. There isn't a substitute and it turns out that at multiple things they are effectively the best, with a clear gap between the rest. This can be explained by 'magical' super-powers (i.e. superman and the sun, x-men mutation) or by him being just that good, skillful and dedicated (batman) but at that point they practically count as unacknowledged super powers (including super-plot following).

[S@tanicoaldo]

Hmm, I think that gives me a handle on what I've been thinking. To be a superhero you basically have to be well beyond a hero. Being a firefighter, you could replace with 1000s of other firefighters, all factors together they might be 1 in a million, but they're basically within the bell curve, and they'll be someone else nearly as good. Even if your the best, they'll be others close, and it will be a narrow gap.

Superheros however go beyond that, you start at being the one the president calls by name, when there's an emergency. There isn't a substitute and it turns out that at multiple things they are effectively the best, with a clear gap between the rest. This can be explained by 'magical' super-powers (i.e. superman and the sun, x-men mutation) or by him being just that good, skillful and dedicated (batman) but at that point they practically count as unacknowledged super powers (including super-plot following).

batman has a super power, he is super rich. The dude is rich to the point of being able to build and entire spacial base and no one asks questions. That's not normal.

[BiblioRook]

Again, that's why I prefer using Hawkeye as the prime example of a superhero with no powers. Not only is his skill set not totally unbelievable (given his background as a carny) but also unlike, say, Batman it's not like he went and trained himself those skill specifically with superheroing in mind, he just happened to already be that skilled and one day saw some superheroes and thought "Pfft, I can do that".

[Zmeoaice]

Again, that's why I prefer using Hawkeye as the prime example of a superhero with no powers. Not only is his skill set not totally unbelievable (given his background as a carny) but also unlike, say, Batman it's not like he went and trained himself those skill specifically with superheroing in mind, he just happened to already be that skilled and one day saw some superheroes and thought "Pfft, I can do that".

He does have a super power, he never misses what he aims for. Most of his targets would be near impossible for any human to hit.

Also a lot of his arrows have some kind of superscience tech.

[AMFV]

The problem is once you start defining anything that is breaking reality in any way as a superpower, you wind up with characters outside of superhero genres that have a ton of superpowers. I mean for being rich, you have a lot of characters in romance fiction who are certainly not superpowered that share that trait. You have spies with super science gadgets, folks in science fiction films with super science gadgets.

Once you start making that sort of shift then the whole idea of superpowers becomes meaningless. Typically the best bet is just to go with whatever the comic book draws as the line. Cause that way your understanding of "powered" vs. "non-powered", will be fitting that of the narrative and it just makes the whole thing that much more understandable.

[BiblioRook]

He does have a super power, he never misses what he aims for. Most of his targets would be near impossible for any human to hit.

Also a lot of his arrows have some kind of superscience tech.

The tech I'll give you, even if most of it is honestly pretty tame by comic book standards, but his aim isn't infallible and he's human enough to admit such himself. It's not like he has Bullseye's bizarro aiming skills. Still a better example then Batman in any case.

[Giggling Ghast]

For the sake of ease, I would argue that superheroes must meet these criteria to be called such:

1) Must operate independently of Earth-based authorities. Initially, I said "must be a vigilante," although that term wouldn't apply to the Green Lanterns or the Nova Corps.
2) Must have, at a minimum, physical capabilities outside the range of most humans.
3) Must either retain a secret identity or go by a code name or given title.
4) Must wear a costume or be sufficiently "inhuman" enough to not need one.
5) Must fight super villains, ie. beings who meet the above criteria but who are guided by an opposite moral code.
6) Must make an effort not to take lives unless necessary and to protect innocent lives as much as possible. (This obviously does not apply to super villains.)

You'll note that there's a heavy Earth bias here. That's because superheroes are basically an Earther invention.

[BiblioRook]

3) Must either retain a secret identity or go by a code name or given title.
4) Must wear a costume or be sufficiently "inhuman" enough to not need one.

I kind of feel like these two are unnecessary. I mean while technically they still have them I guess on the Marvel side of things it feels like more and more of the big names of the super-hero world don't really bother with the duel identity thing. Costumes too seem to be more or less optional at that point as well. Many times the 'costume' just happens to be whatever they happen to feel like wearing regularly.

For example on both points: Luke Cage.
(And yes, I do know Luke Cage's 'superhero name' is technically 'Power Man', but how often does he actually go by it?)

[Giggling Ghast]

Well, his comic debuted as Luke Cage, Hero for Hire, but switched to Luke Cage, Power Man pretty quickly. And then for years it was just Power Man or Power Man & Iron Fist.

Also, I'll note that Luke Cage is itself an alias. His real name is Carl Lucas.

Generally with any superhero, there has to be an element of transformation. Once they might have been normal, bur a tragedy or an accident put them on the road to heroism.

"In his old life he was mild-mannered gas station attendant Billy Schmuck, but a bite from a magical possum turned Billy into MARSUPIAL MAN! Granted the proportionate strength and hopping speed of a kangaroo! Can climb trees with the skill of a wombat! Able to play dead with astounding accuracy! Can carry dozens of babies clinging to his furry costume!"

[AMFV]

For the sake of ease, I would argue that superheroes must meet these criteria to be called such:

1) Must operate independently of Earth-based authorities. Initially, I said "must be a vigilante," although that term wouldn't apply to the Green Lanterns or the Nova Corps.

Captain Atom, Hyperion, Captain America, Hawkeye, Iron Man (during Civil War), Deadpool (during Civil War), Liberty Belle, Doctor Manhattan, Force of July, and I could continue listing other superheroes who at point worked directly for the government. It's pretty much everybody, even Wolverine who is pretty famous for doing "What he wants to do" was an agent of the Government during his weapon X days.

2) Must have, at a minimum, physical capabilities outside the range of most humans.

Zatanna, Professor X (who has less physical abilities than most humans), some members of the Green Lantern Corps sans rings (especially the new lady who is agoraphobic without the help of her ring), Jean Grey, Scott Summers (although he has some training related stuff), John Constantine, Catwoman.

3) Must either retain a secret identity or go by a code name or given title.

John Constantine, Luke Cage (as already pointed out, he doesn't really "go by" Power Man), Reed Richards (his codename has pretty much dropped by the wayside at this point), Nick Fury, and so on.

4) Must wear a costume or be sufficiently "inhuman" enough to not need one.

Zatanna, Professor X, Nick Fury, Luke Cage, any public identity super hero, John Constantine.

5) Must fight super villains, ie. beings who meet the above criteria but who are guided by an opposite moral code.

This one is trickier, but there are a few exceptions generally in indie comics where superheroes just whine about their lives. Like Strong Female Protagonist for example, she does some villain fighting, but mostly she's just complaining the whole time.

6) Must make an effort not to take lives unless necessary and to protect innocent lives as much as possible. (This obviously does not apply to super villains.)

The Punisher, enough said. To be fair there are others who are similar, Wolverine, Deadpool, some incarnations of virtually every hero, Hyperion (and any of the other members of the Squadron Supreme)

You'll note that there's a heavy Earth bias here. That's because superheroes are basically an Earther invention.

I would disagree on this front as well, Superheroes rarely travel to other planets in any sort of organized way, even comics notwithstanding, there is a heavy Earth bias in comics, because Earth is the setting

Well, his comic debuted as Luke Cage, Hero for Hire, but switched to Luke Cage, Power Man pretty quickly. And then for years it was just Power Man or Power Man & Iron Fist.

Yeah, but he wasn't referred to as "Power Man" very often, that was something that people called him, but he didn't really a lot of focus on secret identity.

Also, I'll note that Luke Cage is itself an alias. His real name is Carl Lucas.

Right, but that's a change of name to avoid legal complications, which is a very different thing.

Generally with any superhero, there has to be an element of transformation. Once they might have been normal, bur a tragedy or an accident put them on the road to heroism.

"In his old life he was mild-mannered gas station attendant Billy Schmuck, but a bite from a magical possum turned Billy into MARSUPIAL MAN! Granted the proportionate strength and hopping speed of a kangaroo! Can climb trees with the skill of a wombat! Able to play dead with astounding accuracy! Can carry dozens of babies clinging to his furry costume!"

Yeah, I guess if you're focusing on mostly Stan Lee influenced stuff. But there are lot of comics that don't follow that archetype, in fact enough of them that I would be really taking up too much time to go around listing them.

[Giggling Ghast]

Not going to quote all that, since I don't have all day to respond.

There are always going to be points in a superhero's life when some of the criteria don't apply.

I'm aware of many Marvel superheroes' association with SHIELD. It's never been permanent. I'm also aware of how many DC heroes served in World War 2. Again, not a permanent association. There are also alternate continuity examples of superheroes either working for or ruling the government, at which point I would argue they stopped being superheroes.

I'm aware that some heroes no longer use an alias. The point is that they did, at one point.

Also, it's very debatable whether the Punisher counts as a superhero. I would argue that he isn't one. Deadpool is also somewhat of dubious example of a superhero.

And while Wolverine racks up quite a body count, he usually does so to advance a heroic agenda. I don't recall many times where Logan has killed for fun or money.

[Rater202]

Also, it's very debatable whether the Punisher counts as a superhero. I would argue that he isn't one.

Punisher is only a hero becuase they say he's one.

Everybody forgets that he started out as a Spider-Man villain.

But seriously, the dude's a serial-spree killer who is just barely redeemable because the narrative ignores the fact that most gangsters and junkies are innocent people, mostly kids, who made bad choices due to being stupid or desperate.

[AMFV]

Not going to quote all that, since I don't have all day to respond

Which is ironic because all of the examples I came up with were off the top of my head. I'm sure that if I spent all day poking holes in your list, you'd have more holes than list.

There are always going to be points in a superhero's life when some of the rules don't apply.

The problem with your list is that it's so restrictive and it contains many things that aren't necessarily true of all Superheroes. Therefore it's sort-of a self-defeating list. Also many of the things you discuss are kind of tangential to any actual definition of Superheroism, which suggests that you are letting taste preferences define what you consider to be superherosim rather than genre c

I'm aware of many Marvel superheroes' association with SHIELD. It's never been permanent. I'm also aware of how many DC heroes served in World War 2. Again, not a permanent association.

There are plenty of heroes who currently and have always worked with the Government, except for in very brief stories where that relationship is severed. But they're working with the government is a large part of their character.

I'm aware that some heroes no longer use an alias. The point is that they did, at one point.

Not all of them did, and quite a few on my list did not. We could find a bunch more if you really wanted.

Also, it's very debatable whether the Punisher counts as a superhero. I would argue that he isn't one.

True, but the other examples were less so, and it's not super difficult to find violent characters.

[Giggling Ghast]

I've read a lot of Punisher comics. It's fun seeing extremely bad people get their comeuppance. That said, he's not a superhero, just a vigilante.

[Ramza00]

They are if they use their gear to fight fire elementals.
Or dragons.
Or the very forces of hell.

You know, I would totaly read that (comic) book.
Or watch the movie.

Ghostbusters?

[Kantaki]

Ghostbusters had firefighters fighting dragons?
I don't remember anything like that.
Do you mean the Remake? Didn't watch that one.

[Ramza00]

Ghostbusters had firefighters fighting dragons?
I don't remember anything like that.
Do you mean the Remake? Didn't watch that one.

Ghosts / Forces of Hell what is the difference

Also there base of operation was an old firehouse complete with a firepole.