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  1. - Top - End - #721
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 20: What is your Quest?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zevox View Post
    There was? I have never heard this theory, and don't know why it would be so. Besides, Priest has been a good class, occasionally. Mostly during the two periods when Dragon Priest was actually a real deck, but still, it's been there.
    I recall hearing some thoughts from Brode on this topic: essentially, Priest is the most frustrating class to play against when they have the advantage, because of their hero power, and their theft cards compound this frustration. Ergo, they need to keep Priest from being the best class, because of the added frustration factor.

    Don't recall where to find the exact text, though.
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 20: What is your Quest?

    Quote Originally Posted by CarpeGuitarrem View Post
    I recall hearing some thoughts from Brode on this topic: essentially, Priest is the most frustrating class to play against when they have the advantage, because of their hero power, and their theft cards compound this frustration. Ergo, they need to keep Priest from being the best class, because of the added frustration factor.

    Don't recall where to find the exact text, though.
    I don't see that at all, personally. Their hero power is one of the worst specifically because it's only good when they have the advantage. And I'm pretty sure the theft thing came up before, but I didn't understand it then, either. It's little different from other card draw effects, particularly Rogue's more recent one (albeit more consistently good than Rogue's since you're getting a card someone actually put in a deck, not a completely random class card).
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  3. - Top - End - #723
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 20: What is your Quest?

    Remember there are a lot of children playing Hearthstone. And kids get frustrated easily. Heck, I get frustrated easily for an adult. But at least I can tolerate loosing a HS game, even by miles. Thing is, by adding the thief cards, a Priest with advantage on the board transfers this advantage into card advantage, and their healing combined with the additional cards means they succeed in the long run.

    But that is how the class should work.

  4. - Top - End - #724
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 20: What is your Quest?

    I have discovered that the way to beat Frost Lich Jaina in Arena is Deathwing. My opponent pulled the frost-lich off Kabal Courier... but I had Deathwing from a Bone Drake. Que me running them out of cards, slowly losing the advantage, and then dropping deathwing once their hand was empty. Victory to Destro.
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  5. - Top - End - #725
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 20: What is your Quest?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zevox View Post
    Oddly, I do find myself playing a fair number of Priests the past few days, but I can't really explain why. It hasn't been any one deck - I've seen general Control Priests, Highlander/Shadowreaper Priest, and Inner Fire Priest, possibly more I'm forgetting - and none has struck me as particularly good. My Elemental Mage has beaten them most of the time, and the main loss I recall was a combination of poor draws on my part and strange cards I didn't expect to see on his (it was one of the Highlanders). And I don't even expect my Elemental Mage to end up being a good deck when the meta settles, honestly (though maybe that's just pessimism on my part? It is performing well, though granted small sample size).

    Just an odd trend in the low ranks? Or perhaps my weird luck, since I'm not actually playing enough to be sure there's even a trend?
    We're early enough into an expansion that we're still in that greedy try-everything phase (especially in lower ranks, where a significant number of players are always stumbling about with new cards before they have a guide on the best netdeck to copy for sprinting up the ladder), and Priest (already a fairly late-game focused class) got some interesting toys to play with on that end.

  6. - Top - End - #726
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 20: What is your Quest?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sporeegg View Post
    Thing is, by adding the thief cards, a Priest with advantage on the board transfers this advantage into card advantage, and their healing combined with the additional cards means they succeed in the long run.

    But that is how the class should work.
    That also just sounds like a description of what any Control deck with card draw can do. Just replace "healing" with whatever the class in question does instead.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mando Knight View Post
    We're early enough into an expansion that we're still in that greedy try-everything phase (especially in lower ranks, where a significant number of players are always stumbling about with new cards before they have a guide on the best netdeck to copy for sprinting up the ladder), and Priest (already a fairly late-game focused class) got some interesting toys to play with on that end.
    That's part of the thing, actually, I don't even think I've seen any new cards in the decks consistently. Shadowreaper Anduin has been in maybe half, and I've seen an Obsidian Statue here or there, and one or two decks running Eternal Servitude or Spirit Lash... I don't know, maybe it's just because it's not obvious what would've been in their decks if I'd seen the whole thing or something. Or because I don't actually think that Priest got anything good enough to make a competitive deck with myself.

    (Actually, it's perhaps a touch odd that I've seen so many Priests, but no Benedictus deck as yet. I'd think if I were going to run into someone screwing around with an experimental Priest deck that will likely never be good, that would be the one.)

    Honestly, if I were guessing what deck everyone would beeline for, it would've been "Exodia" Paladin, just because people seemed to be overreacting to the potential for that to happen when it was announced. But I don't think I've seen that at all yet - not many Paladins around, and none seemed to be running anything that would indicate they were shooting for a combo into Four Horsemen win (i.e. Beardo, Brewmsters, or the like).
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  7. - Top - End - #727
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 20: What is your Quest?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zevox View Post
    (Actually, it's perhaps a touch odd that I've seen so many Priests, but no Benedictus deck as yet. I'd think if I were going to run into someone screwing around with an experimental Priest deck that will likely never be good, that would be the one.)
    The instant consensus of all the pros that Benedictus sucks is a likely contributor. People netdecking aren't going to be building it, so it has to be a rank amateur who decided it would be fun.

    And that's the other problem - going Shadow Priest or Exodia Priest or whatever sounds like a fun deck to build and the decks play quite differently from one another. A Benedictus deck is literally a Control Priest with Benedictus added to it. He doesn't inspire people to build a deck around the card the same way the Quests do.

  8. - Top - End - #728
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 20: What is your Quest?

    An unfortunate series of health problems prevented me from playing on launch, and I've just started putting my cards together into things that one might call decks.

    Stuck Deathseer Thrall into an outdated Evolve shell. Seems to work well enough. The ability to single target "evolve" is actually quite useful if you're happy with most of your minions, Evolve being as random as it is. It can also function like the Priest hero power, since the transformed minion is at full health.

    I think the key to Deathseer is that you might not want to play him on curve. As others have mentioned losing the base hero power can actually be detrimental to holding the board.

    Funny that it took me this long to warm up to Evolve as a deck type. The sense of randomness and mystery is actually part of the charm.
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  9. - Top - End - #729
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 20: What is your Quest?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodin View Post
    The instant consensus of all the pros that Benedictus sucks is a likely contributor. People netdecking aren't going to be building it, so it has to be a rank amateur who decided it would be fun.

    And that's the other problem - going Shadow Priest or Exodia Priest or whatever sounds like a fun deck to build and the decks play quite differently from one another. A Benedictus deck is literally a Control Priest with Benedictus added to it. He doesn't inspire people to build a deck around the card the same way the Quests do.
    To be fair, I'm hardly a pro and I rightly concluded that Benedictus was hot garbage also. A 7 mana 4/6 with "downside" (reduce the quality of your deck)? I'll pass. I personally feel that most players can conclude this deck is bad without netdecking.
    Last edited by Epinephrine_Syn; 2017-08-16 at 08:42 AM.

  10. - Top - End - #730
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 20: What is your Quest?

    I got Benedictus in a pack recently. I'm thinking about throwing together a stupid theft deck and going to have fun in wild.
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  11. - Top - End - #731
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    Post Re: Hearthstone 20: What is your Quest?

    Yes, I totally agree that he can also be a fun card, especially if you can organize some weird matchups. Indeed, I adore such exploration of mechanics, and partway wonder if all the current "t1" and "t2" decks were just banned, what kind of meta would then evolve in the new grouping. A Ben V Dead Man matchup would be funny to watch, at least a couple times.

    Also, I made a thing, and I should post it before it stops being relevant.
    Last edited by Epinephrine_Syn; 2017-08-16 at 10:44 AM.

  12. - Top - End - #732
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 20: What is your Quest?

    I played some with this Benedictus deck:

    Spoiler: Deck List and Code
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    ### Mind Games
    # Class: Priest
    # Format: Standard
    # Year of the Mammoth
    #
    # 2x (1) Crystalline Oracle
    # 2x (1) Mind Vision
    # 2x (1) Pint-Size Potion
    # 2x (1) Potion of Madness
    # 2x (3) Curious Glimmerroot
    # 2x (3) Mind Control Tech
    # 2x (3) Thoughtsteal
    # 2x (4) Mindgames
    # 2x (4) Shadow Madness
    # 2x (4) Shifting Shade
    # 2x (5) Devour Mind
    # 2x (6) Cabal Shadow Priest
    # 2x (6) Embrace Darkness
    # 1x (7) Archbishop Benedictus
    # 1x (8) Shadowreaper Anduin
    # 2x (10) Mind Control
    #
    AAECAZ/HAgKJzQKQ0wIOCB6RAdwBkALeBcsI+rACtbsC6L8C1cEC2cECx swC/OECAA==
    #
    # To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and create a new deck in Hearthstone


    It is 100% pure memery, but it's actually surprisingly solid. Basically every card in the deck gives you card advantage in the form of stealing from the opponent in some way. The highlight of the deck was the game I talked about over the weekend where I beat a Paladin to getting the exodia combo off. My one real regret is not being able to fit in Drakonid OP (no other dragons for synergy, getting dragons from opponents is too inconsistent), and I kind of wish I had a better 1 of to include than Anduin (he just does not fit this particular deck very well). But overall fun meme deck. Also Pint Size Potion into Cabal Priest catches the opponent off guard -every- time. Being able to steal a 5-6 attack minions is actually quite good and the opponent never plays around it.
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  13. - Top - End - #733
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 20: What is your Quest?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodin View Post
    The instant consensus of all the pros that Benedictus sucks is a likely contributor. People netdecking aren't going to be building it, so it has to be a rank amateur who decided it would be fun.

    And that's the other problem - going Shadow Priest or Exodia Priest or whatever sounds like a fun deck to build and the decks play quite differently from one another. A Benedictus deck is literally a Control Priest with Benedictus added to it. He doesn't inspire people to build a deck around the card the same way the Quests do.
    So far, I've seen Benedictus in a couple hilarious decks on Reddit that involved Hemet:

    1) A complete steal your deck style deck: nothing above 3, then you get to play their deck!

    2) Benedictus, Hemet, DK Anduin, (maybe Raza). Hemet your deck away to guarantee a draw into DK Anduin/Benedictus. DK Anduin, then use Benedictus to grab their deck to fuel your pew pew with the new hero power.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zevox View Post
    There was? I have never heard this theory, and don't know why it would be so. Besides, Priest has been a good class, occasionally. Mostly during the two periods when Dragon Priest was actually a real deck, but still, it's been there.
    Mostly a reddit theory, take that as it may. Priest is frustrating because they steal your cards then beat you with your own cards. I remember Drakonid Operative being hated so much when it came out.
    Last edited by Joran; 2017-08-16 at 11:28 AM.

  14. - Top - End - #734
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 20: What is your Quest?

    So I just noticed something, and I'm not sure if it's a bug or a patch I missed. When I'm brawling, I no longer get credit for 'Win X matches as [Class]' quests, at least for when my class is randomly assigned to me.

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    Default Re: Hearthstone 20: What is your Quest?

    Quote Originally Posted by Destro_Yersul View Post
    If you have patches, run him. Also run Swashburglar. I'd probably drop Valeera and the Deadscales to fit those, myself.
    Honestly the reason I like Valeera and the Deadscales so much is that they can turn a losing game around in a second. A turn of stealth to fire off the quest card and drop two 5/5 lifelinkers means a lot if you're not dead right then and there. And with the nerf I feel like quest rogue needs to transition to much more of a midrange-y style than just the pure aggro.

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    Default Re: Hearthstone 20: What is your Quest?

    Good news, Zevox! This tavern brawl is complete and utter randomness! You don't even get to pick your class!
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 20: What is your Quest?

    Doing fully random Tavern Brawls right when the expansion hits (Shiftcon last week and Crossroads this) is pretty smart. Blizzard doesn't need to come up with a new one and they get to showcase the new cards for those who haven't bought them. Plus, with it being random it encourages people to try out cards they ordinarily wouldn't. I just had a Ticking Abomination be VIP.

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    Default Re: Hearthstone 20: What is your Quest?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodin View Post
    Doing fully random Tavern Brawls right when the expansion hits (Shiftcon last week and Crossroads this) is pretty smart. Blizzard doesn't need to come up with a new one and they get to showcase the new cards for those who haven't bought them. Plus, with it being random it encourages people to try out cards they ordinarily wouldn't. I just had a Ticking Abomination be VIP.
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 20: What is your Quest?

    Speaking personally, Priest is my favorite class, given that it inhabits a similar wedge of the Magic color pie as U/B/W. It's tailor-made for Control. I know it's not the most effective class but it will always be my go-to for constructed or when I have a choice while Brawling.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 20: What is your Quest?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodin View Post
    The instant consensus of all the pros that Benedictus sucks is a likely contributor. People netdecking aren't going to be building it, so it has to be a rank amateur who decided it would be fun.
    Quote Originally Posted by Epinephrine_Syn View Post
    To be fair, I'm hardly a pro and I rightly concluded that Benedictus was hot garbage also. A 7 mana 4/6 with "downside" (reduce the quality of your deck)? I'll pass. I personally feel that most players can conclude this deck is bad without netdecking.
    Yeah, I concluded much the same right away, but this is the community which a significant chunk of went completely nuts over Gnomeferatu of all cards, so I would have figured there'd be plenty of people out there who think Benedictus was great for similar reasons that they thought that card was great and would jump on him quickly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joran View Post
    Mostly a reddit theory, take that as it may. Priest is frustrating because they steal your cards then beat you with your own cards. I remember Drakonid Operative being hated so much when it came out.
    Yeah, and that baffled me then, too. Drakonid Operative is a really good card, at least in any situation where a Dragon Priest deck can be good, but why it copying from your opponent's deck drew any particular ire never made sense to me. I've never seen such ire for Thoughtsteal, which has been around since the game's inception, and has on a few occasions (granted mostly very early in the game's life) made it into real decks just as an Arcane Intellect equivalent.

    Quote Originally Posted by Epinephrine_Syn View Post
    Also, I made a thing, and I should post it before it stops being relevant.
    Speaking as someone who doesn't care at all about Warcraft lore due to having zero attachment to Warcraft of any kind, I have to say, the Lich King's "attempted seriousness" is actually what makes me like him less than other Hearthstone adventure villains to date. He breaks the fourth wall every so often, but lacks the snark of Kel'Thuzad or the bombastic portrayal of Ragnaros or Rafaam. He comes across to me more as a generic, boring villain instead, even with the fourth wall jokes.

    Quote Originally Posted by GAAD View Post
    Good news, Zevox! This tavern brawl is complete and utter randomness! You don't even get to pick your class!
    Oh, believe me, I noticed. I had to auto-concede twice just to get a class that wasn't Hunter, because apparently the game's RNG hates me. (Seriously, how do they keep managing to make Encounter at the Crossroads worse?) Fortunately, I did win the match I got after, so I don't need to touch this thing again. Unless I get the 5 Brawls quest anyway - but honestly, I might actually toss that if I do this week, good payout be damned.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodin View Post
    Doing fully random Tavern Brawls right when the expansion hits (Shiftcon last week and Crossroads this) is pretty smart. Blizzard doesn't need to come up with a new one and they get to showcase the new cards for those who haven't bought them. Plus, with it being random it encourages people to try out cards they ordinarily wouldn't. I just had a Ticking Abomination be VIP.
    I would have to disagree - I would think that just after a set comes out would be the time to make one of the Brawls that they've made near the end of sets recently, the ones that give you two decks showcasing the major themes of the set (like the Elementals vs Beasts brawl we had a few weeks back, or the three factions of Gadgetzan brawl). Makes no sense to me that they wait until the next set is nearly out to do those.
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 20: What is your Quest?

    I've always hated playing against Priest and had very little interest in playing Priest. Pretty much exactly the same way you feel about Hunter.

    The Lich King's attempted seriousness is...yeah. Attempted seriousness? Really? You had Frost Lich Jaina fight a minion named A. F. Key. Blizzard has always suffered from thinking they can mix really juvenile ha-ha-isn't-it-funny humor with drama and expect people to be moved by the drama as if nothing had detracted from it.

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    Default Re: Hearthstone 20: What is your Quest?

    I dunno, I think it's pretty funny that the Lich King is attempting to be this serious about what is essentially a card game. It reminds me of Yugioh Abridged, and all the tongue in cheek references to how everyone in universe takes this card game completely seriously despite how completely ridiculous it is.
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 20: What is your Quest?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kish View Post
    I've always hated playing against Priest and had very little interest in playing Priest. Pretty much exactly the same way you feel about Hunter.

    The Lich King's attempted seriousness is...yeah. Attempted seriousness? Really? You had Frost Lich Jaina fight a minion named A. F. Key. Blizzard has always suffered from thinking they can mix really juvenile ha-ha-isn't-it-funny humor with drama and expect people to be moved by the drama as if nothing had detracted from it.
    A.F. Kay was hilarious! As someone who played WoW, having the really inept raid group was funny.

    So far, I've enjoyed, but the tonally the best is always Kel'Thu-freakin'zad. I don't think the Lich King would have made a good wise-cracking villain alas, so he's more like Nefarian in BRM.

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    Default Re: Hearthstone 20: What is your Quest?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kish View Post
    The Lich King's attempted seriousness is...yeah. Attempted seriousness? Really? You had Frost Lich Jaina fight a minion named A. F. Key. Blizzard has always suffered from thinking they can mix really juvenile ha-ha-isn't-it-funny humor with drama and expect people to be moved by the drama as if nothing had detracted from it.
    I don't think that's it - I can absolutely think of things that mix drama and comedy, including fairly juvenile comedy, and still manage to work. The Ace Attorney games, for instance. Or heck, The Order of the Stick. But I can't really call anything in Hearthstone drama - there's not nearly enough story being told here for that. One villain monologueing to to you about how doomed you are while you play a card game does not a dramatic moment make.

    Whether Hearthstone could do drama or not, I'd say they've long since passed the point where they've set the game's tone solidly to "lighthearted comedy," so trying to do a villain who's serious in any way which isn't itself funny seems like a poor idea to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Destro_Yersul View Post
    I dunno, I think it's pretty funny that the Lich King is attempting to be this serious about what is essentially a card game. It reminds me of Yugioh Abridged, and all the tongue in cheek references to how everyone in universe takes this card game completely seriously despite how completely ridiculous it is.
    Haven't seen Yu-gi-oh Abridged, but I didn't really have that kind of reaction to the Lich King myself. I think you'd need to take his attitude up a few notches for me to feel like that's what was going on - have him get really petulant about you beating a boss whose deck he thought was great, perhaps, and rant about how you just got insanely lucky.
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 20: What is your Quest?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zevox View Post
    I would have to disagree - I would think that just after a set comes out would be the time to make one of the Brawls that they've made near the end of sets recently, the ones that give you two decks showcasing the major themes of the set (like the Elementals vs Beasts brawl we had a few weeks back, or the three factions of Gadgetzan brawl). Makes no sense to me that they wait until the next set is nearly out to do those.
    I don't think that's disagreeing, as such. Either way you're playing with the new cards without buying the new cards. The advantage of the random ones is that they showcase the new cards which might not make it into competitive decks, while the advantage of the pre-constructed decks shows the fun interactions.

    I too would generally prefer the latter, although I'm not surprised the Elementals vs Beasts one comes out later - if they're building a paired deck set like that they have to actually balance the decks against each other to make it a fun experience. That's something I wouldn't expect the first week of the expansion since Tavern Brawl is such a low priority. They could have more easily put together the Deckbuilder decks like they've done in the past.

    The last couple expansions I don't recall the first Tavern Brawls being random at all - they were either build your own deck silliness or pre-constructed from older expansions. That did feel like a missed opportunity.

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    Default Re: Hearthstone 20: What is your Quest?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodin View Post
    I don't think that's disagreeing, as such. Either way you're playing with the new cards without buying the new cards. The advantage of the random ones is that they showcase the new cards which might not make it into competitive decks, while the advantage of the pre-constructed decks shows the fun interactions.
    But with random decks you're not necessarily showing the new cards, because the cards are random. You can just as easily get little to no cards from the new set, by the very nature of the beast - especially since, if memory serves, Tavern Brawls are Wild, so the new cards are far outnumbered by the old. I think that would make it poor for showcasing anything.
    Last edited by Zevox; 2017-08-16 at 09:31 PM.
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 20: What is your Quest?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zevox View Post
    But with random decks you're not necessarily showing the new cards, because the cards are random. You can just as easily get little to no cards from the new set, by the very nature of the beast - especially since, if memory serves, Tavern Brawls are Wild, so the new cards are far outnumbered by the old. I think that would make it poor for showcasing anything.
    I just agreed with you that your way is better, and you're still arguing the point. All I said in my initial post is that is that the random ones were well timed as a zero effort method to get the new cards out there. That's all. Very obviously, constructed decks built around the new cards are better, but Blizzard doesn't have time to do that (or at least, doesn't care to devote the resources), and historically they've done a bad job of getting the new cards into Tavern Brawl.

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    Default Re: Hearthstone 20: What is your Quest?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodin View Post
    I just agreed with you that your way is better, and you're still arguing the point.
    Because you specifically said that you didn't feel like what I was saying was disagreeing with your original statement, so I wanted to clarify it. It's not just a matter of contending that constructed decks would be better, it's a matter of not agreeing that random decks are a good way to show off new cards on any level. They're a poor way to show off anything other than RNG, I'd say.
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 20: What is your Quest?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zevox View Post
    Because you specifically said that you didn't feel like what I was saying was disagreeing with your original statement, so I wanted to clarify it. It's not just a matter of contending that constructed decks would be better, it's a matter of not agreeing that random decks are a good way to show off new cards on any level. They're a poor way to show off anything other than RNG, I'd say.
    Ok.

    I'll just look at my 5 out of 9 cards in hand and in play that are from KotFT in my current Brawl match and agree to disagree.
    Last edited by Rodin; 2017-08-16 at 10:37 PM.

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    Default Re: Hearthstone 20: What is your Quest?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zevox View Post
    Haven't seen Yu-gi-oh Abridged, but I didn't really have that kind of reaction to the Lich King myself. I think you'd need to take his attitude up a few notches for me to feel like that's what was going on - have him get really petulant about you beating a boss whose deck he thought was great, perhaps, and rant about how you just got insanely lucky.
    What, him complaining that now he needed to DE his favourite legendary and make a better one wasn't enough?
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