Hearthstone 20: What is your Quest?

[Psyren]

Ice Block is allowed, but you just can't count on always having it. You only get three options out of ten cards each draw, which isn't great odds to keep getting the same card every time. Plus falling far enough behind that you need it probably means you also need something else to catch back up, which you can't get if you need to keep picking Block.

You're forgetting card draw (like Arcane Intellect, Novice Engineer, and even Coldlight Oracle) which gives you multiple chances to discover 3 cards. Getting one Ice Block per turn late game is very easy, at which point you become invincible, and surviving to late game is also easy thanks to Frost Nova, Doomsayer, and Reno.

And the same thing he does every night time Pinky Psyren - at least, I'd assume, I haven't seen him used. Probably because 1-mana spells aren't likely to be popular in this format. Unless Jade Druid has taken over since I played the other day, I guess.

Actually, both decks are full of 1-mana cards - whenever you draw a card in this brawl ,you get a 1-mana spell called "Peruse" that triggers the discover effect again. It does not merely replace your draws with the discover. So I was wondering if Geist did anything with that. (Besides nuking the ones in your hand that is.)

[The Glyphstone]

Peruse doesn't appear to be actually in your deck, though. It spawns in place of card draws, but your deck count obviously never actually goes down.

[Zevox]

You're forgetting card draw (like Arcane Intellect, Novice Engineer, and even Coldlight Oracle) which gives you multiple chances to discover 3 cards. Getting one Ice Block per turn late game is very easy, at which point you become invincible, and surviving to late game is also easy thanks to Frost Nova, Doomsayer, and Reno.

That's spending a lot of mana to get those discover chances though, since it's an extra one per Peruse used. If you're casting Arcane Intellect for example, then two Peruses, and then an Ice Block, that's eight mana down the drain already, which doesn't leave you with much to do anything else.

Actually, both decks are full of 1-mana cards - whenever you draw a card in this brawl ,you get a 1-mana spell called "Peruse" that triggers the discover effect again. It does not merely replace your draws with the discover. So I was wondering if Geist did anything with that. (Besides nuking the ones in your hand that is.)

I was aware of Peruse, but already figured it works like Glyphstone said. The discovers are supposed to be based on what's in your deck, after all - if the Peruses were actually in there, you could discover them. And it wouldn't make sense that your deck is 10 cards and doesn't get smaller when you draw Persues.

[Destro_Yersul]

That's spending a lot of mana to get those discover chances though, since it's an extra one per Peruse used. If you're casting Arcane Intellect for example, then two Peruses, and then an Ice Block, that's eight mana down the drain already, which doesn't leave you with much to do anything else.

I ran Sorcerer's Apprentice in my deck. 0 mana peruse is a bit nuts.

[Fleeing Coward]

Got there this time with half a month left. Now I can focus on studying for my exam in 2 weeks instead of spending the whole weekend grinding

Spoiler

Show

That board in the background is why I love Big Priest (It was only turn 5)

[The Glyphstone]

Looks like they stealth nerfed the Brawl to ban Gnomferatu.

[Hamste]

Ok, assuming you can get to turn 10 with out dying you can arcane intellect or coldlight oracle, the two discovers and play the ice block.

Time to do some math on the chances to get an ice block if you have it, cold light oracle and arcane intellect.
7/10*6/9*5/8 chance not to get any of them or .292 chance to get none of them or .708 to get one of them. You should usually pick coldlight oracle or arcane intellect over the ice block to get ahead. You get one of those .533 of the time

You draw 2 cards that you can play but you need to get ice block and only ice block. 30% to get ice block each time for 51% of getting ice block from 2 cards. .


Odds:
17.5% to get ice block and no more cards
22.4% to get ice block and 1 card
4.8% to get two ice blocks

Average .495 ice blocks a turn

If you pick ice block first
30% to get ice block and no more cards
17.1% to get iceblock and 1 card
3.67% to get two iceblocks
Average .544 ice blocks a turn

[Gandariel]

First "win on the first game" deck that popped into my mind was Freeze Mage.

So I threw in:
Ice Lance
Frostbolt
Forgotten Torch (to get Roaring Torch)
Evolved Kobold
Frost Nova
Doomsayer
Thaurissan
Ice Block
Reno
Sorcerer's apprentice

Won on my first try vs a Jade Druid who really had no hope against my deck.

Torch is kind of useless, if I were to play again I'd sub for Arcane Intellect.

Also, Quest Mage is probably even easier to pull off:

Quest
Babbling book
Arcane Intellect
Coldlight Oracle

Thaurissan

Apprentice
Antonidas

Ice Block

Either Doomsayer+Frost Nova for a generic defense, or get a second wind condition + mirror tech with Eater of Secrets + Molten Giant

Maybe the babbling book isn't even needed, since you get those Peruse spells.
Reno?

[Psyren]

That's spending a lot of mana to get those discover chances though, since it's an extra one per Peruse used. If you're casting Arcane Intellect for example, then two Peruses, and then an Ice Block, that's eight mana down the drain already, which doesn't leave you with much to do anything else.

That's (a) assuming you don't find it or a Frost Nova until the last one and (b) irrelevant because you didn't die! There's literally nothing else you need to do!

I was aware of Peruse, but already figured it works like Glyphstone said. The discovers are supposed to be based on what's in your deck, after all - if the Peruses were actually in there, you could discover them. And it wouldn't make sense that your deck is 10 cards and doesn't get smaller when you draw Persues.

But can Geist kill the ones you've drawn? That's the question.

@Gandariel: Yeah, Jade has no hope against this. You can't die (conventionally.)

[Zevox]

That's (a) assuming you don't find it or a Frost Nova until the last one and (b) irrelevant because you didn't die! There's literally nothing else you need to do!

If you expect to win, yes, you do. Fatigue isn't a thing, so you won't win just by stalling. I guess your plan could be to Fireblast them down, but one turn out of the thirty you need where you fail to draw Ice Block means you're screwed, and that will probably happen over such a long period of time. And if they're Priest, Warrior, or running any sort of healing, well...

[Psyren]

If you expect to win, yes, you do. Fatigue isn't a thing, so you won't win just by stalling. I guess your plan could be to Fireblast them down, but one turn out of the thirty you need where you fail to draw Ice Block means you're screwed, and that will probably happen over such a long period of time. And if they're Priest, Warrior, or running any sort of healing, well...

The win condition is the easiest part, anything will do. You could win with Arcane Missiles, or just last until they concede. The version I saw used Flamewakers, which deal free damage every time you make yourself invulnerable and un-attackable.

[Zevox]

The win condition is the easiest part, anything will do. You could win with Arcane Missiles, or just last until they concede. The version I saw used Flamewakers, which deal free damage every time you make yourself invulnerable and un-attackable.

But if you're spending a lot of mana getting to Ice Blocks, you're leaving yourself with little to use those other cards. Flamewaker couldn't even be cast in the same turn as Intellect + 2 Peruse + Block, and even if you get the block earlier, it's not doing a lot if your opponent has gotten too far ahead of you, which they will after a couple of turns of you needing to just dig for Ice Blocks. Missiles could, but against an opponent spending their mana on building a board, would likely just hit random minions and maybe kill a weakened or small one if you're lucky. And again, with low-damage things like those, against anyone running any healing or armor gain you're screwed.

And why would they concede? They need only last until you get a less than lucky turn. Maybe some would do it out of finding the match boring, but that's a pretty crappy way to win I'd think.

Really, the thing about this Brawl is that while you can have any given card a lot more frequently than in a normal game, you still can't have it 100% of the time. You can't just build a deck around the idea of playing one card repeatedly every turn. Better to build it around a set of cards that synergize well with each other and take advantage of the discover mechanics to have on-curve plays every turn, or assemble combos more frequently than you can in normal games. I played a Paladin deck earlier that played a Control game, intending to win with Uther and Garrison Commander to make summoning the Horsemen easy, but found that just being able to fish out Pyromancer + Equality pretty consistently was potent enough to win many matches against the zoo-ish decks I wound up facing.

[flat_footed]

Looks like they stealth nerfed the Brawl to ban Gnomferatu.

No such luck, I just paired with someone who had it in their deck. They got two out before conceding since my 8/3 Mana Worm was ruining their day.

[The_Jackal]

Gnomeferatu getting a bit lucky is an effective way for a deck to deal with certain strategies (death knight priest most notably) in a class that otherwise lacks a real answer to that problem.

Meh, it's just another mill card, not an 'answer', except insofar as it can hose combo decks with dumb luck, as if this game wasn't already festooned with dumb luck.

Skulking Geist, similarly, was printed as an answer to Jade Idol for every class. It's a very poor card in terms of stats for cost, it gets run because the effect it's offering is so critical to counter certain strategies such as Jade and inner fire priest to a lesser extent.

It's a badly designed card to counteract an even more badly designed card. Jade, and infinite Jade in particular, is just far too high value, and is actually so incredibly broken that my suspicion is that it won't be driven out of the meta by power creep until Jade is relegated to Wild.

[The Glyphstone]

No such luck, I just paired with someone who had it in their deck. They got two out before conceding since my 8/3 Mana Worm was ruining their day.

I'm very confused then. I tried to put it in my deck and it won't even show up in my library.

[flat_footed]

I'm very confused then. I tried to put it in my deck and it won't even show up in my library.

Is it possible Blizzard’s fix wasn’t to ban the card, but to remove it from being added to future decks? Is that even a thing they can do?

[The Glyphstone]

Is it possible Blizzard’s fix wasn’t to ban the card, but to remove it from being added to future decks? Is that even a thing they can do?

Maybe it was banned, but the software doesn't read current decklists. It's such a rare circumstance (banning a card from a Brawl mid-Brawl), that I doubt it's worth coding for.

[Psyren]

But if you're spending a lot of mana getting to Ice Blocks, you're leaving yourself with little to use those other cards.

Apprentice and Thaurissian are also in the deck.

(EDIT: Thinking about it further, you could probably go off even faster with Molten Reflection... *goes to tinker*)

[ChaosOS]

Fun decks I had this brawl (I really enjoyed it and am sad to see it gone)

Spoiler: Quest Mage

Show

• Open the Waygate
• Sorcerer's Apprentice
• Primordial Glyph
• Arcane Intellect
• Ice Block
• Frost Nova
• Molten Reflection
• Acolyte of Pain
• Polymorph
• Blizzard

Spoiler: Yogg Druid

Show

• Innervate
• Wild Growth
• Wrath
• Jade Blossom
• Grove Tender
• Astral Communion
• Mire Keeper
• Swipe
• Nourish
• Yogg Saron, Hope's End

Spoiler: Overload Burn Shaman

Show

• Lightning Bolt
• Tunnel Trogg
• Bloodmage Thalnos
• Crackle
• Jade Claws
• Lava Shock
• Lava Burst
• Unbound Elemental
• Jade Lightning
• Snowfury Giant

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Messed with the good ol' Anyfin Paladin, probably not the optimum deck, but wow is it fun not having to worry as much about topdeck screw.

[Joran]

New patch out.

For those min-maxers out there, on October 24th, they're going to force every arena deck to retire, give you the rewards, and give you a free arena ticket. So, to mix-max, you play arena until you get 2 losses, then sit. You get a free reward at that tier and then get a refund of your arena ticket.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

New patch out.

For those min-maxers out there, on October 24th, they're going to force every arena deck to retire, give you the rewards, and give you a free arena ticket. So, to mix-max, you play arena until you get 2 losses, then sit. You get a free reward at that tier and then get a refund of your arena ticket.

That's not how I read it. You get a free arena ticket every week as part of the arena promotion, so basically they're terminating all arena runs immediately and then handing out the free arena ticket.

[Psyren]

That's not how I read it. You get a free arena ticket every week as part of the arena promotion, so basically they're terminating all arena runs immediately and then handing out the free arena ticket.

I think he means that when they terminate your run, you'll get whatever rewards you had earned up to that point (as opposed to if you don't have an active run going, you'll get nothing.) Whether this is more profitable than simply playing arena right up until the servers go down probably depends on the individual.

[Joran]

That's not how I read it. You get a free arena ticket every week as part of the arena promotion, so basically they're terminating all arena runs immediately and then handing out the free arena ticket.

Not according to Daxxari:

"Does the free arena ticket from having your arena run cancelled stack with the free arena ticket from logging in on the 24th-30th? Or is it just the 1?"

-Correct! These tickets should stack.

At the bottom: * NOTE: If you have an Arena run in progress when Hallow’s End begins on October 24, then it will be retired and you’ll receive the normal rewards for the number of wins you achieved and a free Arena ticket.

https://playhearthstone.com/en-us/blog/21098847

So, if they're not mistaken, there's zero reason for you not to have an open arena run. Even if you just buy an arena run and sit on it, you'll get a minimum of 2 packs for 150 gold (1 pack for the 0-0 run, and then a free ticket, which you can immediately retire for another pack).

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Interesting! Good to have the blue-text confirmation. Well, there's another way to game it...

[Seerow]

Not according to Daxxari:

"Does the free arena ticket from having your arena run cancelled stack with the free arena ticket from logging in on the 24th-30th? Or is it just the 1?"

-Correct! These tickets should stack.

At the bottom: * NOTE: If you have an Arena run in progress when Hallow’s End begins on October 24, then it will be retired and you’ll receive the normal rewards for the number of wins you achieved and a free Arena ticket.

https://playhearthstone.com/en-us/blog/21098847

So, if they're not mistaken, there's zero reason for you not to have an open arena run. Even if you just buy an arena run and sit on it, you'll get a minimum of 2 packs for 150 gold (1 pack for the 0-0 run, and then a free ticket, which you can immediately retire for another pack).

Well then. I just finished up my 5k gold arena (been doing one for every 1k gold I save since the expansion launched), but knowing this I think I will splurge on an extra.

[Togath]

I actually have an Arena run from back during the ice festival thingy, where they gave you a free run. Sounds like I might actually get BETTER rewards if I wait until the 24th?(since I don't have enough wins for it to pay for itself, I'm not good enough to reach that, and was at, like, 4 wins 2 losses).

[Mando Knight]

I actually have an Arena run from back during the ice festival thingy, where they gave you a free run. Sounds like I might actually get BETTER rewards if I wait until the 24th?(since I don't have enough wins for it to pay for itself, I'm not good enough to reach that, and was at, like, 4 wins 2 losses).

If you're already at 2 losses, hold on to your run.

[Destro_Yersul]

My current run is at 7/2, and I wonder if it's better to keep going on that one, cash it in, and get another one with the reward. Then I can hang on to that one when it hits two losses. I don't know.

[Hamste]

My current run is at 7/2, and I wonder if it's better to keep going on that one, cash it in, and get another one with the reward. Then I can hang on to that one when it hits two losses. I don't know.

If I understand correctly, you should do another run if you have the funds and want to do an arena. If you lose immediately with your current run you go 7/3 which is identical rewards to what you would have gotten if you kept it but if you win you get 8 win rewards. Either way you can just start a new run. So you can only profit from from finishing the run, unless something would stop you from making another run and playing it.

As long as you have any run going on the 24th your good as the reward of an arena ticket doesn't scale and you get rewarded at your current wins (optimally you want to be at 2 losses but you don't have to be).