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  1. - Top - End - #121
    Eldritch Horror in the Playground Moderator
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 20: What is your Quest?

    Ben Brode likes his job way too much.

    I wonder if Reddit will be able to talk him into making another rap song for this expansion?
    Last edited by The Glyphstone; 2017-07-06 at 11:35 PM.

  2. - Top - End - #122
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 20: What is your Quest?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    Ben Brode likes his job way too much.

    I wonder if Reddit will be able to talk him into making another rap song for this expansion?
    I actually like that he's so pumped up on a regular basis. I mean I've seen how acidic the battlenet forums can get.
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 20: What is your Quest?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    I wonder if Reddit will be able to talk him into making another rap song for this expansion?
    There's already a petition that went up at around the same time as the expansion's announcement video.

  4. - Top - End - #124
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 20: What is your Quest?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mando Knight View Post
    It's also an AoE ping on a class where the next cheapest AoE damage spell is at 5 mana. Amazing? No, but it's a tech card to help Priests hold Pirate Warriors and basically any Paladins at bay.
    1 damage isn't going to help so much against Paladins - the days of Muster for Battle are long behind us, and strangely Lost in the Jungle has not become a standard card for the class. It's only really effective at killing the very earliest Pirate Warrior plays (N'zoth's First Mate & Patches), too.

    Basically, at best that spell is Arcane Explosion plus a little healing, and sometimes it even has a drawback of wounding/killing your minions. That doesn't seem so impressive.

    In addition, Priest does have effective pseudo-AoE that's cheaper than 5: Potion of Madness and Shadow Madness. Save against very specific metas, I'd be inclined to think the Potion gets run over this as an anti-aggro tool. It's cheaper and probably often more effective.
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  5. - Top - End - #125
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 20: What is your Quest?

    Spirit Lash seems decent if you can pair it with spell damage. In the case of a full-ish enemy board, Spirit Lash + Thalnos would be "cast Consecration, draw a Card, heal 10-16 HP". The other thing to note is that it fits into Wild Pyro/Northshire/Circle strats for massive card draw.

    I'm not convinced it beats out Priest of the Feast/Binding Heal for healing back up, but the card is borderline enough that I'm not prepared to call it crap yet. I am generally more excited for Priest getting some decent Deathrattles though. The main thing Deathrattle Priest lacked was a win condition, as just playing a load of sub-par Deathrattles a couple times over wasn't all that great. With Deathrattle being a major theme of the expansion I'm betting there will be some power cards to make building a deck for any class viable. Priest having a Reno effect available might just give them the edge.

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    I'm very curious to see how the Hunter power works. Card text is limited in space, so what happens when you get a card with two very complicated texts? For instance, Bittertide Hydra combined with Giant Sand Wurm. I suppose they could get around it by adding the card text of the second card as an enchantment - but then, how do they show that for a card in your hand with two Battlecries?

    Also, if you go over 10 mana with the combined card, will it just be an unplayable card? That seems like a major downside if you get a pair of really expensive minions. Let's say you get offered Ultrasaur, Giant Mastodon, and King Krush on your second pick. Unless you picked a 1-mana minion, you're now screwed because the Beast you created will be guaranteed to cost over 10 mana - literally unplayable.

    It also seems a bit slow. While the stitched together minions can be powerful, they also cost 2 mana more than normal. A lot of cards become non-viable if you increase the cost by 1 mana, and you're combining the mana costs as well. This makes the minimum cost 4 mana for double 1-drops, and the cost escalates really fast as you combine even relatively small minions. For example, spending 2 mana to draw a Carrion Grub and Infested Wolf is pretty good. The mash-up is a 9 mana 5/8 that Deathrattles into two 1/1 minions. You're going to be pretty sad when that gets Hexed.

  6. - Top - End - #126
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 20: What is your Quest?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodin View Post
    I'm very curious to see how the Hunter power works. Card text is limited in space, so what happens when you get a card with two very complicated texts? For instance, Bittertide Hydra combined with Giant Sand Wurm. I suppose they could get around it by adding the card text of the second card as an enchantment - but then, how do they show that for a card in your hand with two Battlecries?

    Also, if you go over 10 mana with the combined card, will it just be an unplayable card? That seems like a major downside if you get a pair of really expensive minions. Let's say you get offered Ultrasaur, Giant Mastodon, and King Krush on your second pick. Unless you picked a 1-mana minion, you're now screwed because the Beast you created will be guaranteed to cost over 10 mana - literally unplayable.

    It also seems a bit slow. While the stitched together minions can be powerful, they also cost 2 mana more than normal. A lot of cards become non-viable if you increase the cost by 1 mana, and you're combining the mana costs as well. This makes the minimum cost 4 mana for double 1-drops, and the cost escalates really fast as you combine even relatively small minions. For example, spending 2 mana to draw a Carrion Grub and Infested Wolf is pretty good. The mash-up is a 9 mana 5/8 that Deathrattles into two 1/1 minions. You're going to be pretty sad when that gets Hexed.
    According to Mike Donais, it will only show you Beasts that cost 5 mana or less.

  7. - Top - End - #127
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 20: What is your Quest?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodin View Post
    It also seems a bit slow. While the stitched together minions can be powerful, they also cost 2 mana more than normal. A lot of cards become non-viable if you increase the cost by 1 mana, and you're combining the mana costs as well. This makes the minimum cost 4 mana for double 1-drops, and the cost escalates really fast as you combine even relatively small minions. For example, spending 2 mana to draw a Carrion Grub and Infested Wolf is pretty good. The mash-up is a 9 mana 5/8 that Deathrattles into two 1/1 minions. You're going to be pretty sad when that gets Hexed.
    It's not a tempo tool, it's a value tool. It offers a way for Midrange hunter to keep up pressure in the late game, when you're almost out of cards and not spending the full 10 mana every turn anyways. It's also free in terms of cards. You might be sad that it got hexed, but your opponent just spent a card to kill your Not A Card.
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  8. - Top - End - #128
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 20: What is your Quest?

    The possibility of doing something like Young Dragonhawk stitched with a Jungle Panther for a 5/3 Stealth Windfury for 5 is going to keep some people up at night. Can't wait to see how this ends up.
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  9. - Top - End - #129
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 20: What is your Quest?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zevox View Post
    1 damage isn't going to help so much against Paladins - the days of Muster for Battle are long behind us, and strangely Lost in the Jungle has not become a standard card for the class. It's only really effective at killing the very earliest Pirate Warrior plays (N'zoth's First Mate & Patches), too.

    Basically, at best that spell is Arcane Explosion plus a little healing, and sometimes it even has a drawback of wounding/killing your minions. That doesn't seem so impressive.

    In addition, Priest does have effective pseudo-AoE that's cheaper than 5: Potion of Madness and Shadow Madness. Save against very specific metas, I'd be inclined to think the Potion gets run over this as an anti-aggro tool. It's cheaper and probably often more effective.
    If each point of healing is a separate instance, it could be a nasty combo with cards like Northshire or Holy Champion. Probably not enough to be good, but it's interesting synergy.

  10. - Top - End - #130
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 20: What is your Quest?

    Well, it wouldn't trigger northshire, since that only counts minion heals, and Holy Champion is out of standard, I think. Maybe worth testing in wild, but probably not good.
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 20: What is your Quest?

    I'm really excited for the free missions, been missing the single player aspect of the game.
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 20: What is your Quest?

    I'm worried about that hunter power. It's the sort of high-variance RNG that can make hearthstone quite unfun.

    Like, I'm not opposed to RNG in general, but there are certain forms that are especially salt generating. Most of the time, that hero power is just going to churn out a decently statted minion. But sometimes you'll get Vicious Fledgeling with Charge or Stealth, Or a supercharged Rat Pack, and that is what is going to stick in people's minds.

    As for the revealed cards, unless there is some sort of Tutor mechanic, Prince Keleseth seems bad. Boosting your entire deck from turn 2 SEEMS great, but he's a legendary, so you can't reliably draw him early on. Every turn you don't draw him after 2 is wasted value, and 2-cost cards are often pretty important.
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  13. - Top - End - #133
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 20: What is your Quest?

    Maybe if quest hunter becomes a thing he will see play. Instead of two drops you just run 1 drops. Though you miss out on cards like knife juggler and sure wolf alpha so probably not
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  14. - Top - End - #134
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 20: What is your Quest?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamste View Post
    Maybe if quest hunter becomes a thing he will see play. Instead of two drops you just run 1 drops. Though you miss out on cards like knife juggler and sure wolf alpha so probably not
    You lose access to all your traps, Crackilng Razormaw, Kindly Grandmother, and Scavenging Hyena. But, if you play him after you play Carnassa, her Brood gets boosted as well. I guess it could work, but only if Quest Hunter already works, which right now it doesn't.
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 20: What is your Quest?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodin View Post
    Spirit Lash seems decent if you can pair it with spell damage. In the case of a full-ish enemy board, Spirit Lash + Thalnos would be "cast Consecration, draw a Card, heal 10-16 HP". The other thing to note is that it fits into Wild Pyro/Northshire/Circle strats for massive card draw.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    If each point of healing is a separate instance, it could be a nasty combo with cards like Northshire or Holy Champion. Probably not enough to be good, but it's interesting synergy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Destro_Yersul View Post
    Well, it wouldn't trigger northshire, since that only counts minion heals, and Holy Champion is out of standard, I think. Maybe worth testing in wild, but probably not good.
    Destro has the right of this. In standard the only thing that it could currently combo with is Lightwarden, and that's too easy to remove to be worth attempting.

    I'd be quite leery of the notion that spell damage will make it good too, since that's never been true of Arcane Explosion. Granted, it has been of Maelstrom Portal, but that card has the upside of putting a body on the board, which is a lot better in most cases than a situational heal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodin View Post
    I'm not convinced it beats out Priest of the Feast/Binding Heal for healing back up,
    Binding Heal? Really? I don't see a world where that ever sees play, even over Spirit Lash. It's far too niche, wanting you to heal both a minion and your face at once.

    I'll give Spirit Lash this much, at least: if Priest ever really needs a specifically anti-aggro card to stabilize via healing, I think it would rather have that than existing alternatives (Binding Heal, Greater Healing Potion). I just don't think that's a niche it really needs when it has more generalized healing cards that don't have to be useless against non-aggro (Holy Nova, Priest of the Feast, Darkshire Alchemist, Twilight Darkmender if C'Thun ever becomes viable again, maybe even Holy Fire), plus its hero power, plus potentially Amara if the quest ends up getting enough good deathrattles to start working.
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 20: What is your Quest?

    So after playing brawl a lot, I have to say the best card in this brawl is mass dispel. The opponent probably put in cards that only activate with the rag and with out it the eggs, grim patrons, armor smiths and axe flingers are a lot worse and very few decks run burst as rag usually seals out the win.
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  17. - Top - End - #137
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 20: What is your Quest?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zevox View Post

    Binding Heal? Really? I don't see a world where that ever sees play, even over Spirit Lash. It's far too niche, wanting you to heal both a minion and your face at once.
    It's seen a fair bit of tournament play in Control Priest - moreso in the Global Games than in the other formats I think. It's used as a cheap Lyra activator, mostly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodin View Post
    It's seen a fair bit of tournament play in Control Priest - moreso in the Global Games than in the other formats I think. It's used as a cheap Lyra activator, mostly.
    Yeah I've seen it in both Miracle Priest and Control Priest. Though honestly, I prefer Circle over it and I don't think most of those lists are running Circle (maybe Miracle is).
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 20: What is your Quest?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zevox View Post
    I'd be quite leery of the notion that spell damage will make it good too, since that's never been true of Arcane Explosion. Granted, it has been of Maelstrom Portal, but that card has the upside of putting a body on the board, which is a lot better in most cases than a situational heal.
    Maelstrom portal is good because Shaman gets spell damage automatically with enough hero power activation. And the card is variably powerful depending on your totem luck. The body is a nice bonus (I mean, they just made arcane explosion, but better) but shaman does particularly well with low damage spells because they have such easy access to spell damage.

    Priest, I think, is somewhere in between. They're usually going more slowly than Mage since they have a lot more stall cards, so they can afford to hold out for spell damage and use their cards later if they don't need the early removal against something like a speedy pirate start, and they typically have more high health low attack minions who might benefit from a 1 damage aoe to turn bad trades into good ones. But they're not going to have quick and consistent spell damage access unless the new set come with some excellent cheap spell damage minions, so they can't reliably expect a 1 damage spell to do 2+ damage before turn 5.
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 20: What is your Quest?

    Some quick predictions for this set, before we see more cards:

    • Direct support for certain Quests: big minions for Druid, targeted spells for Paladin, etc. Given that Deathrattles are stated to be a focus of the expansion, Quest Priest getting support is a no-brainer.
    • Undead Murlocs, Death Knights or otherwise. Possibly including class Murlocs for Shaman and/or Paladin.
    • At least one neutral "French Vanilla" Lifesteal minion.
    • Every class will have access to a Lifesteal card, but classes that traditionally have class cards that heal will likely have more and/or less-rare Lifesteal cards.
    • Paladin may have additional Silver Hand Recruit support, but won't synergize with Death Knight Uther.
    • A class will get a spell to give a minion Lifesteal, probably Paladin, though Priest is also possible.
    • Indirect Discover nerfs, via diluting the card pool (some situational/mediocre spells for Mage, non-Legendary Taunts for Paladin and Shaman, more Taunts in general, etc.).
    • Lich King Bolvar as the Paladin Legendary minion, maybe?
    Last edited by Mando Knight; 2017-07-07 at 11:45 PM.

  21. - Top - End - #141
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 20: What is your Quest?

    Quote Originally Posted by Seerow View Post
    Yeah I've seen it in both Miracle Priest and Control Priest. Though honestly, I prefer Circle over it and I don't think most of those lists are running Circle (maybe Miracle is).
    Circle's problem is that it doesn't heal your face, which can be quite important against aggro decks and Mages of all stripes. The main reason to run Circle is Auchenai, and while I'm not certain I believe most Control Priest decks at the moment aren't running those.

    I'm a Dragon Priest player myself, so I'm not really up on the full decklists for the other archetypes. I just know what I see on Twitch, and the Control Priest lists are variable enough that it's hard to make a "standard" list for them.

    Which is great, by the way. I've loved how many differences there are in even top-tier decks this expansion. My recollection of Gadgetzan is that we had maybe a couple weeks of Wild West deckbuilding before everyone settled into the best decks, and then after that the expansion kinda rotted from lack of innovation. For Un'Goro we're talking about the next expansion and top tier decklists still aren't completely settled.

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    Default Re: Hearthstone 20: What is your Quest?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodin View Post
    Which is great, by the way. I've loved how many differences there are in even top-tier decks this expansion. My recollection of Gadgetzan is that we had maybe a couple weeks of Wild West deckbuilding before everyone settled into the best decks, and then after that the expansion kinda rotted from lack of innovation. For Un'Goro we're talking about the next expansion and top tier decklists still aren't completely settled.
    I love how Quest Taunt C'Thun Warrior (without the C'Thun) was a thing in Global Games and it won a game!

    It feels like the meta keep shifting depending on what the best deck is; last week VS Reaper had Quest Rogue as a really strong deck. Then players adjusted and suddenly Freeze Mage is top dog. I remember when midrange Murloc Paladin felt oppressive, then the crabs / mages came out. I like the dynamic feel of the meta and we'll see what decks are hiding out because Quest Rogue exists.

    I'm skeptical we'll see another top tier deck (last one I think was Evolve/Devolve Token Shaman), but I'm sure we'll find some really cool tier 2-3 decks in the last month of Un'goro.
    Last edited by Joran; 2017-07-08 at 12:57 AM.

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    Default Re: Hearthstone 20: What is your Quest?

    Quick thoughts:

    1) hero cards are OK. Overpay for a spell, get a Justicar effect for free plus a bit of armor. Nothing super new but cool.
    Note: Stop giving Hunter replacement hero powers! It doesn't work! Hunter has the BEST lategame hero power already
    2) life steal is... again, ok. The Priest Spell is a cool tech card, I'd say it's even playable: it's probably better than wild pyro in Northshire combos.
    3)the 2 mana legend is... auto include for Qhest Hunter, 400 dust for everyone else?

    The other two cards are not really worth discussing.

    Overall, the expansion looks pretty tame in terms of card design. We'll see when they reveal more stuff.
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 20: What is your Quest?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gandariel View Post
    Note: Stop giving Hunter replacement hero powers! It doesn't work! Hunter has the BEST lategame hero power already
    UGH THIS. Like, at this point I feel like they just fundamentally misunderstand that hero power. I'd love to see expensive Hunter cards that do more with the hero power/persistent small damage to the hero over time.
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 20: What is your Quest?

    Quote Originally Posted by CarpeGuitarrem View Post
    UGH THIS. Like, at this point I feel like they just fundamentally misunderstand that hero power. I'd love to see expensive Hunter cards that do more with the hero power/persistent small damage to the hero over time.
    But in this case the whole theme of the expansion is they're giving a new card for all classes to replace hero powers. And I would rather if they are doing that anyway to try encouraging an alternate hunter playstyle, rather than just making something blatantly Hunter++ like "Deal 5 damage to face".


    Also I am looking forward to seeing some of the other new Death Knights to see what they end up doing.
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 20: What is your Quest?

    Besides, they already had a chance to give Hunters a directly improved hero power with Justicar. Instead, Hunter got robbed and only got "Deal 3 damage" while Priest/Warrior got "Go up by 4". Blizzard doesn't seem to want a "Bleed them dry" style of hunter.

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    Default Re: Hearthstone 20: What is your Quest?

    Yeah, it definitely bums me out, because I honestly think that fits the flavor of Hunter really well: wear them out and chase them down over time, using traps to stall them and hinder them.
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 20: What is your Quest?

    Crystal nerf is live!

    Also: Jade Spirit, Hallazeal the Ascended, Mana Geode and Djinni of Zephyrs are now elementals.
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  29. - Top - End - #149
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    Destro_Yersul's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    sector ZZ9 plural-z alpha
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Hearthstone 20: What is your Quest?

    And they've finally fixed the darn freeze on close bug, too.
    I used to do LP's. Currently archived here:

    My Youtube Channel

    The rest of my Sig:
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    Avatar by Vael

    My Games:
    The Great Divide Dark Heresy - Finished
    They All Uprose Dark Heresy - Finished
    Dead in the Water Dark Heresy - Finished
    House of Glass Dark Heresy - Deceased

    We All Fall Down Dark Heresy - Finished

    Sea of Stars Rogue Trader - Ongoing

  30. - Top - End - #150
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Malaysia

    Default Re: Hearthstone 20: What is your Quest?

    DISCLAIMER: Datamined stuff, so nothing official.

    Spoiler: Future Event?
    Show
    http://www.hearthpwn.com/news/2983-p...-nerfed-frozen
    http://www.hearthpwn.com/news/2985-f...en-throne-card

    The snoops at Hearthpwn have apparently discovered an Arena-based holiday bonus event lasting for three weeks. Presumably this is going to be before the new expansion launches. Fits nicely if it comes after this week's Fire Festival. But even if it's after, doesn't matter.

    I don't mind the concept and gameplay of Arena, it's just that at this point in time I'd rather save the gold for packs of the new expansion. Free Arena runs (one free run per week, they say), with a bonus Knights pack on top of the standard Arena rewards? Sign me up.

    I'm not going to turn away free stuff, lol.


    Welp there goes my Rogue meta deck. I might tinker around with it, but I was being run over by aggro before the nerf. Need to try some things out.

    Hell yeah turn 4 Jade Spirit turn 5 Servant of Kalimos. Err...maybe not.
    Awesome OOTS-style Fallout New Vegas avatar by Ceika. Or it was, before Photobucket started charging money.

    General nerd person. Mostly computer games and manga.

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