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    Default [3.5] So, a player wants to play a Soulknife

    I'm aware of how PF "fixed" a soulknife, but I'm stubborn and I don't want to mix PF with 3.5 even though it's apparently easy to convert. Also, the player is very slow to learn things and he's played a 3.5 soulknife before so it's better for teaching if I can keep it to what he knows. ADDITIONALLY, the power level of the group is around T4 to T3 so there's that.

    With that information, I'm pretty confident in this build because it helps to cover up some of the weaker points of the class. I proposed for him to pick up Scout 3 to get more skills points and skills, additional damage after moving and to qualify for the improved evasion feat. Then at level 4 move in to 5 levels of soulknife and build the character like a throwing build. Power Throw, Brutal Throw, etc.

    Do you think that with the additional feats and the ability to get some extra damage without sacrificing move actions to charge a blade that would shore up some of the most commonly complained about aspects of soulknife?

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    Default Re: [3.5] So, a player wants to play a Soulknife

    As an indirect answer, here's how I buff Soulknife in the games I run now:
    +Full BAB
    +Psychic Strike applies to all attacks in a round (if standing still, you could do a standard+charge/PS full attack/standard+charge...repeating routine)
    +Only one feat is required to pick whatever weapon shape you want for your mind blade
    +Knife to the Soul is available at 3rd level. I don't think the ability to do 1 or 2 points of damage to a mental stat is unbalancing at 3rd and 7th levels, although it does offer a few options for dealing with CHA 2 animals.
    +Expanded list of Mind Blade options (discuss with player)
    +Also, EVERYBODY in all of my games gets +4 skill points per level, x4 at first.

    This gives you a character whose class features go beyond "Have a weapon" to "Have a mutable weapon that hits very often, with a reasonable bonus damage or minor debuff feature that scales with levels, and with mobility thanks to Speed of Thought & enough points to take Tumble, and with 6-7 free feats available."

    Since Mage Slayer does not harm Mind Blade progression, take that feat chain and combine it with the ability to knock down their casting stat by 2-3 points with each hit. Suddenly you have a decent semi-mundane mage slayer, who can land a pretty nasty debuff on any caster, possibly disabling spellcasting with enough hits.
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    Default Re: [3.5] So, a player wants to play a Soulknife

    Quote Originally Posted by AnimeTheCat View Post
    I'm aware of how PF "fixed" a soulknife, but I'm stubborn and I don't want to mix PF with 3.5 even though it's apparently easy to convert. Also, the player is very slow to learn things and he's played a 3.5 soulknife before so it's better for teaching if I can keep it to what he knows. ADDITIONALLY, the power level of the group is around T4 to T3 so there's that.

    With that information, I'm pretty confident in this build because it helps to cover up some of the weaker points of the class. I proposed for him to pick up Scout 3 to get more skills points and skills, additional damage after moving and to qualify for the improved evasion feat. Then at level 4 move into 5 levels of soul knife and build the character like a throwing build. Power Throw, Brutal Throw, etc.

    Do you think that with the additional feats and the ability to get some extra damage without sacrificing move actions to charge a blade that would shore up some of the most commonly complained about aspects of soul knife?
    Forget all that.

    First, what are the other players in the game? If they are hyper-optimized Druids, Clerics then yeah, Soulknife sucks.

    How much magic is there in the game? Are magic weapons a dime a dozen? Are scrolls available at every street corner shop? If the last two questions are a Yes, then yeah, Soul knife sucks.

    If not to both first and second, then Soul knife is a pretty good class if you suggest that the player exit it with a PrC at level 5,6,7. Soulbow comes to mind and warmind too. Also, a one level dip multiclass into Psychic warrior gets free feats and access to Slayer. All these are wonderful options for t Soulknife.

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    DwarfBarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: [3.5] So, a player wants to play a Soulknife

    Quote Originally Posted by J-H View Post
    As an indirect answer, here's how I buff Soulknife in the games I run now:
    +Full BAB
    +Psychic Strike applies to all attacks in a round (if standing still, you could do a standard+charge/PS full attack/standard+charge...repeating routine)
    +Only one feat is required to pick whatever weapon shape you want for your mind blade
    +Knife to the Soul is available at 3rd level. I don't think the ability to do 1 or 2 points of damage to a mental stat is unbalancing at 3rd and 7th levels, although it does offer a few options for dealing with CHA 2 animals.
    +Expanded list of Mind Blade options (discuss with player)
    +Also, EVERYBODY in all of my games gets +4 skill points per level, x4 at first.

    This gives you a character whose class features go beyond "Have a weapon" to "Have a mutable weapon that hits very often, with a reasonable bonus damage or minor debuff feature that scales with levels, and with mobility thanks to Speed of Thought & enough points to take Tumble, and with 6-7 free feats available."

    Since Mage Slayer does not harm Mind Blade progression, take that feat chain and combine it with the ability to knock down their casting stat by 2-3 points with each hit. Suddenly you have a decent semi-mundane mage slayer, who can land a pretty nasty debuff on any caster, possibly disabling spellcasting with enough hits.
    The idea wasn't to fix the soulknife class. It will be played as is. The player is really tied to the idea of forming a mind blade and I'm not going to stop them.

    Quote Originally Posted by logic_error View Post
    Forget all that.

    First, what are the other players in the game? If they are hyper-optimized Druids, Clerics then yeah, Soulknife sucks.

    How much magic is there in the game? Are magic weapons a dime a dozen? Are scrolls available at every street corner shop? If the last two questions are a Yes, then yeah, Soul knife sucks.

    If not to both first and second, then Soul knife is a pretty good class if you suggest that the player exit it with a PrC at level 5,6,7. Soulbow comes to mind and warmind too. Also, a one level dip multiclass into Psychic warrior gets free feats and access to Slayer. All these are wonderful options for t Soulknife.
    I'll start by answering you with a quote from my OP (Bolded for emphasis)
    I'm aware of how PF "fixed" a soulknife, but I'm stubborn and I don't want to mix PF with 3.5 even though it's apparently easy to convert. Also, the player is very slow to learn things and he's played a 3.5 soulknife before so it's better for teaching if I can keep it to what he knows. ADDITIONALLY, the power level of the group is around T4 to T3 so there's that.
    so that answers your first question.

    Second, the magic items are going to be thematically placed around the world. In the frigid regions, you'll be able to get your frosty weapons, desert regions your firey ones, etc. There's not going to be any kind of magical market in every city either. There may be a local magic user that creates a sparse number of magic items, but they will be unique everywhere the PCs go. Only the largest cities will have decent magic item availability. Most of the magic items the party will get will be from adventuring.

    The problem with exiting Soulknife is that, to my knowledge, soul bow and illumen soul are the only things that continues the progression of the weapon which means that most other options are going to prove subpar for the soulknife and the player will end up using a real weapon that is better which would make them feel like their soulknife levels were wasted.

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    Default Re: [3.5] So, a player wants to play a Soulknife

    Point them in the direction of the mind's eye acfs. getting a free level 1 power and swapping psychic strike for something like martial study/stance can open them up a lot. Also,make sure he gets access to an adamantine mindblade gauntlet asap (they're something like 1000gp iirc). Not only does that add a fairly useful tool to their collection, it, through virtue of its mechanics, gives the soulknife the ability to respect their mindblade on the fly.

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    Default Re: [3.5] So, a player wants to play a Soulknife

    Allowing psionic prestige classes to progress the Soulknife is a very good idea.

    In addition, I find granting the Soulknife Weapons of Legacy abilities to be a fun idea.


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    Default Re: [3.5] So, a player wants to play a Soulknife

    Quote Originally Posted by AnimeTheCat View Post
    The idea wasn't to fix the soulknife class. It will be played as is. The player is really tied to the idea of forming a mind blade and I'm not going to stop them.



    I'll start by answering you with a quote from my OP (Bolded for emphasis)


    so that answers your first question.

    Second, the magic items are going to be thematically placed around the world. In the frigid regions, you'll be able to get your frosty weapons, desert regions your firey ones, etc. There's not going to be any kind of magical market in every city either. There may be a local magic user that creates a sparse number of magic items, but they will be unique everywhere the PCs go. Only the largest cities will have decent magic item availability. Most of the magic items the party will get will be from adventuring.

    The problem with exiting Soulknife is that, to my knowledge, soul bow and illumen soul are the only things that continues the progression of the weapon which means that most other options are going to prove subpar for the soulknife and the player will end up using a real weapon that is better which would make them feel like their soulknife levels were wasted.
    In the case that the other classes are in the range of T3 T4 AND there are no magic weapons flooding the world, I think your SoulKnife will do just fine. No need to fix anything. If you allow the Bane ability to be applied to the weapon you might make him OP though.

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    Default Re: [3.5] So, a player wants to play a Soulknife

    Giving him Mau-Jehe and getting him to Legacy Champion-advance both the weapon and the class at once might do the trick. Mau-Jehe's special effects can be stacked with a normal Mind Blade.

    I've once made a build that revolved around getting the most ridiculously overpowered weapon ever using that. It used Soulknife to get Mau-Jehe's bonuses into a Soulbow's Mind Arrow, then a Kensai dip to enhance the Mind Arrow's "bow"(A.K.A: brain), which is usually unenchanted, and Legacy Champion progression to level Kensai's Enhancements while changing Mau-Jehe's effects into better ones. It amounted to something like +30 effective enhancement arrows.

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    Default Re: [3.5] So, a player wants to play a Soulknife

    Even with all that, I like bumping BAB to full. Drop to d8 HD if you want to balance it out, but in my experience that better suits the offensive nature of the class.

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    Default Re: [3.5] So, a player wants to play a Soulknife

    Quote Originally Posted by NomGarret View Post
    Even with all that, I like bumping BAB to full. Drop to d8 HD if you want to balance it out, but in my experience that better suits the offensive nature of the class.
    I get increasing the BAB, but why reduce the HD? That seems counterintuitive to the nature of the class

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    Default Re: [3.5] So, a player wants to play a Soulknife

    Take the Mind's Eye upgrades, first of all. Ideally the one that sort of turns the Psychic Warrior into a Soulknife, but at least the ones that swap out the useless Wild Talent and Psychic Strike for feats. Then go into Soulbow, possibly with a Shiba Protector dip. Make sure he gets some cool magic items to fill out his WBL, since he's not buying a weapon. That's the way to make a useful Soulknife in 3.5; there's really not a lot else that can be done.

    Alternate "Mind Blades" include the aforementioned PsyWar ACF, the Incarnum Weapon soulmeld, and the Pyrokineticist (or better yet, Sonikineticist)'s Fire Lash.
    Last edited by Grod_The_Giant; 2017-07-11 at 11:17 AM.

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    Default Re: [3.5] So, a player wants to play a Soulknife

    Quote Originally Posted by AnimeTheCat View Post
    I'm aware of how PF "fixed" a soulknife, but I'm stubborn and I don't want to mix PF with 3.5 even though it's apparently easy to convert. Also, the player is very slow to learn things and he's played a 3.5 soulknife before so it's better for teaching if I can keep it to what he knows. ADDITIONALLY, the power level of the group is around T4 to T3 so there's that.
    That bolded part makes me wonder if it's even possible to help -- changing the Soulknife with house-rules seems somehow worse than giving the guy a new class to play, since it's betraying his expectations.

    If you're interested in different takes on the Soulknife, I've got one here: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...as-Feats-PEACH

    If you're interested in tweaks to the Soulknife that make it playable:
    - Full BAB
    - Psychic Strike +1d8 works like either Sneak Attack or Skirmish -- you get it up to once per turn either when you flank, or when you move 10+ ft.
    - All mindblade enhancement bonuses can be converted into cool powers. That means your first cool power happens at level 4.
    - Instead of meditating for 8 hours to change your Mindblade enhancement choices, you just get to do that for free when you wake up.
    - Do you use Action Points? If so, spend an AP to change your Mindblade enhancement choices.
    - Change the list of mindblade enhancements to something like:
    • Defending +1
    • Bane +1
    • Flaming +1
    • Shock +1
    • Frost +1
    • Keen +1
    • Lucky1 +1
    • Mighty cleaving +1
    • Psychokinetic[SUP]1[/SUP +1
    • Sundering[SUP]1[/SUP +1
    • Vicious +1
    • Collision[SUP]1[/SUP +2
    • Mindcrusher[SUP]1[/SUP +2
    • Psychokinetic burst[SUP]1[/SUP +2
    • Suppression[SUP]1[/SUP +2
    • Wounding +2
    • Bodyfeeder[SUP]1[/SUP +3
    • Mindfeeder[SUP]1[/SUP +3
    • Soulbreaker[SUP]1[/SUP +3

    ... plus whatever else exists in your campaign.

    Note that I've removed two trap choices (Defending and Lucky). Defending is bad because he's not a chain-tripper in heavy armor who can control a region, and who mostly makes Touch attacks. Lucky is bad because it's either 1/day (too weak), or it's 1/mindblade (and then it's abusive).

    The idea is that he gets access to simple, usable enhancements that boost damage, and which can be tailored to specific opponents. This rewards planning & scouting which are key D&D skills to develop.

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    Default Re: [3.5] So, a player wants to play a Soulknife

    Quote Originally Posted by Nifft View Post
    - Psychic Strike +1d8 works like either Sneak Attack or Skirmish -- you get it up to once per turn either when you flank, or when you move 10+ ft.
    Why? It's basically half-progression Sneak Attack on a medium-BAB class; there's no reason to limit it to once/round. Like, you could probably change it to "while psionically focused" and have no balance issues whatsoever.
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    Default Re: [3.5] So, a player wants to play a Soulknife

    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    Why? It's basically half-progression Sneak Attack on a medium-BAB class; there's no reason to limit it to once/round. Like, you could probably change it to "while psionically focused" and have no balance issues whatsoever.
    Well, partly because I had suggested changing the class to full-BAB, and because Skirmish could work just as well with the same values.

    Also because I'm suggesting adding Bane / Flaming / Shock / Frost as options at 4th level.

    Since the other PCs are T3-T4, then there might be a character who has only Sneak Attack, and I want that character's player to still feel good.

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    Default Re: [3.5] So, a player wants to play a Soulknife

    I'm not trying to fix the class.... or change the class... or pick an ACF... Or any of that. I'm asking for input on a thrown weapon build using scout as a means to get extra damage because psychic strike is even more restrictive than precision damage. +3d6 damage and +3 AC each round in which you move 20 feet is pretty great for added bonuses against most creatures.

    Human Scout 3/Soulknife 5
    1. Scout - Two Weapon Fighting, Travel Devotion/ +1d6 Skirmish
    2. Scout -
    3. Scout - Improved Skirmish/+1d6, +1 AC Skirmish
    4. Soulknife - Mind Blade
    5. Soulknife - Throw Mind Blade
    6. Soulknife - Point Blank Shot/Psychic Strike +1d8
    7. Soulknife - +1 Mind Blade
    8. Soulknife - Free Draw, Shape Mind Blade
    9. Soulknife - Improved Two Weapon Fighting

    How's that for a stub of what I'm looking at. It allows the player to get a possible +3d6+1d8+1 on a single attack. if he uses his move action to charge his blade and travel devotion to move as a swift action which allows for skirmish. two attacks with +3d6+1 each after using travel devotion.

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    Default Re: [3.5] So, a player wants to play a Soulknife

    Quote Originally Posted by AnimeTheCat View Post
    I'm not trying to fix the class.... or change the class... or pick an ACF... Or any of that. I'm asking for input on a thrown weapon build using scout as a means to get extra damage because psychic strike is even more restrictive than precision damage. +3d6 damage and +3 AC each round in which you move 20 feet is pretty great for added bonuses against most creatures.

    Human Scout 3/Soulknife 5
    1. Scout - Two Weapon Fighting, Travel Devotion/ +1d6 Skirmish
    2. Scout -
    3. Scout - Improved Skirmish/+1d6, +1 AC Skirmish
    4. Soulknife - Mind Blade
    5. Soulknife - Throw Mind Blade
    6. Soulknife - Point Blank Shot/Psychic Strike +1d8
    7. Soulknife - +1 Mind Blade
    8. Soulknife - Free Draw, Shape Mind Blade
    9. Soulknife - Improved Two Weapon Fighting

    How's that for a stub of what I'm looking at. It allows the player to get a possible +3d6+1d8+1 on a single attack. if he uses his move action to charge his blade and travel devotion to move as a swift action which allows for skirmish. two attacks with +3d6+1 each after using travel devotion.
    Improved Skirmish looks like it requires +2d6/+1 before you can take the feat.

    So -- that build is so good, it's illegal ;)

    I do notice that Scout 3 / Soulknife 2 could lead into Soulbow, which is generally better.

    You could write a feat like Swift Hunter which allows Scout skirmish bonus to stack with Soulknife & Soulbow.

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    Default Re: [3.5] So, a player wants to play a Soulknife

    Quote Originally Posted by Nifft View Post
    Improved Skirmish looks like it requires +2d6/+1 before you can take the feat.

    So -- that build is so good, it's illegal ;)

    I do notice that Scout 3 / Soulknife 2 could lead into Soulbow, which is generally better.

    You could write a feat like Swift Hunter which allows Scout skirmish bonus to stack with Soulknife & Soulbow.
    Aww, dang. I'm AFB so I was going on memory and I thought it just required +1d6/+1 to take. Oh well. No improved skirmish, but still and extra 1d6 damage, +1 AC, Better/more skills/skill points, and saves seems like a better start. Scout 3/Soulknife 2/Soulbow X seems like I can make that roll. Maybe I'll look in to Scout 3/Soulknife 3/Soulbow X/Illumen Soul X If the player wants to go that route. Those all stack for the purposes of mind blade (except scout of course). I don't like introducing onsie twosie homebrew rules so I try to stay as close to the rules as written as possible. That keeps it most fair for everyone.

    EDIT: No improved Skirmish means I can take Point Blank Shot at 3 and Precise Shot at 6 or wait for TWF until I have the BAB and Stat to back it up for the character. With soulbow, I don't even think I would need twf, but I would need the rapid/manyshot feats... hmmmm
    Last edited by AnimeTheCat; 2017-07-11 at 12:01 PM.

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    Default Re: [3.5] So, a player wants to play a Soulknife

    Quote Originally Posted by AnimeTheCat View Post
    Aww, dang. I'm AFB so I was going on memory and I thought it just required +1d6/+1 to take. Oh well. No improved skirmish, but still and extra 1d6 damage, +1 AC, Better/more skills/skill points, and saves seems like a better start. Scout 3/Soulknife 2/Soulbow X seems like I can make that roll. Maybe I'll look in to Scout 3/Soulknife 3/Soulbow X/Illumen Soul X If the player wants to go that route. Those all stack for the purposes of mind blade (except scout of course). I don't like introducing onsie twosie homebrew rules so I try to stay as close to the rules as written as possible. That keeps it most fair for everyone.

    EDIT: No improved Skirmish means I can take Point Blank Shot at 3 and Precise Shot at 6 or wait for TWF until I have the BAB and Stat to back it up for the character. With soulbow, I don't even think I would need twf, but I would need the rapid/manyshot feats... hmmmm
    You can take Point Blank Shot at level 1: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#pointBlankShot

    You can also take Rapid Shot or Precise Shot at level 1 (if you're Human, or all 3 if you have access to Flaws).

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    Default Re: [3.5] So, a player wants to play a Soulknife

    Quote Originally Posted by AnimeTheCat View Post
    Aww, dang. I'm AFB so I was going on memory and I thought it just required +1d6/+1 to take. Oh well. No improved skirmish, but still and extra 1d6 damage, +1 AC, Better/more skills/skill points, and saves seems like a better start. Scout 3/Soulknife 2/Soulbow X seems like I can make that roll. Maybe I'll look in to Scout 3/Soulknife 3/Soulbow X/Illumen Soul X If the player wants to go that route. Those all stack for the purposes of mind blade (except scout of course). I don't like introducing onsie twosie homebrew rules so I try to stay as close to the rules as written as possible. That keeps it most fair for everyone.

    EDIT: No improved Skirmish means I can take Point Blank Shot at 3 and Precise Shot at 6 or wait for TWF until I have the BAB and Stat to back it up for the character. With soulbow, I don't even think I would need twf, but I would need the rapid/manyshot feats... hmmmm
    Mkay. So. The problem with Scout/Soulknife is that Skirmish requires movement and a full attack, and Psychic Strike requires move actions-- even if you use Travel Devotion or something to get swift-action movement, the volley rules from the Rules Compendium mean that you can't spend your move action to charge Psychic Strike and attack. Especially on a Soulbow, whose standout feature is as a volley archer. (You can stack TWF and Rapid Shot to machine-gun everything). You also want to be careful about multiclassing too many medium-BAB classes; that can easily kill your to-hit.

    Psychic Strike is basically just awful, and combines poorly with everything except maybe ToB maneuvers, which I assume you don't want to mess with.

    Soulknife 2/Scout 5/Cleric 1/Soulbow 10 works alright for your purposes, though, if a little late-blooming. Activate Travel Devotion and Knowledge Devotion (bonus: be a dwarf and grab Ancestral Knowledge to power that with your Wisdom), then run around shooting everything with multiple arrows for d8+4d6+Wis+enhancements. A little late blooming on the Soulbow front, though.

    Again, though, I'll direct you towards Shiba Protector. It requires you to be human and take three crap feats (one of which can be bought via the Otyugh Hole), but a one-level dip lets you add your Wisdom to attack and damage, no questions asked. Combine that with Zen Archery and you're rocking double-stat to attack and damage, which is real nice.
    Last edited by Grod_The_Giant; 2017-07-11 at 01:33 PM.
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    Default Re: [3.5] So, a player wants to play a Soulknife

    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    Mkay. So. The problem with Scout/Soulknife is that Skirmish requires movement and a full attack, and Psychic Strike requires move actions-- even if you use Travel Devotion or something to get swift-action movement, the volley rules from the Rules Compendium mean that you can't spend your move action to charge Psychic Strike and attack. Especially on a Soulbow, whose standout feature is as a volley archer. (You can stack TWF and Rapid Shot to machine-gun everything). You also want to be careful about multiclassing too many medium-BAB classes; that can easily kill your to-hit.

    Psychic Strike is basically just awful, and combines poorly with everything except maybe ToB maneuvers, which I assume you don't want to mess with.

    Soulknife 2/Scout 5/Cleric 1/Soulbow 10 works alright for your purposes, though, if a little late-blooming. Activate Travel Devotion and Knowledge Devotion (bonus: be a dwarf and grab Ancestral Knowledge to power that with your Wisdom), then run around shooting everything with multiple arrows for d8+4d6+Wis+enhancements. A little late blooming on the Soulbow front, though.

    Again, though, I'll direct you towards Shiba Protector. It requires you to be human and take three crap feats (one of which can be bought via the Otyugh Hole), but a one-level dip lets you add your Wisdom to attack and damage, no questions asked. Combine that with Zen Archery and you're rocking double-stat to attack and damage, which is real nice.
    Well, Greater Manyshot can fix the multi-attack issue fairly easily, but it requires a fairly huge amount of feats and levels, so it's still out at that level.

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    Default Re: [3.5] So, a player wants to play a Soulknife

    As Grod said, Manyshot means volley rules, and volley rules mean everything only applies to one attack.

    I'll mention now that throwing based soulknife is not advisable because you are limited to one throw per round until level 17. Soulbow is as mentioned, very helpful for ranged soulknife builds. There is one other PrC that sort of interacts with Mind Blade, and that's Kensai, which is helpfully full BA.

    If your married to the idea of using Psychic Strike, consider Mind Cleave, so you can save yourself the move action. I know that some people like to use Travel devotion to fuel skirmish, but since you're a soulknife, you can consider being Kalashtar and using Wild Talent for Dimension Hop, since that's 10 feet, which will get you skirmish bonus, and Kalashtar will mean more uses per day than Travel Devotion.
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    Default Re: [3.5] So, a player wants to play a Soulknife

    EDIT: Nearly forgot. Dragonfire Strike is a feat from Dragon Magic that lets you turn your Skirmish damage into fire damage and deal an extra d6. That would arguably let a Scout 3 hit the "2d6/+1" benchmark for Improved Skirmish, though it's a mite sketchy.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Viscount View Post
    As Grod said, Manyshot means volley rules, and volley rules mean everything only applies to one attack.
    Greater Manyshot works fine; it specifically calls out precision damage as applying to each arrow, trumping the more general rule in the RC. The reason I don't recommend it is that it's just not that good-- it only allows iteratives, not things like Rapid Shot and Haste, and it applies huge penalties in the process.

    I know that some people like to use Travel devotion to fuel skirmish, but since you're a soulknife, you can consider being Kalashtar and using Wild Talent for Dimension Hop, since that's 10 feet, which will get you skirmish bonus, and Kalashtar will mean more uses per day than Travel Devotion.
    Meh. You have to spend at least 1pp a round for that, and 3pp/round if you want to get Improved Skirmish-- that'll eat up points fast. On the other hand, each use of Travel Devotion lasts you a full fight, generally; if you acquire it via a Cleric dip, you'll have 3+Cha turn attempts to recharge it. Grab a Reliquary Holy Symbol or Nightstick or something and you're golden.
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    Default Re: [3.5] So, a player wants to play a Soulknife

    A class that, surprisingly, meshes fairly well with soulknife is pyrokineticist. (though I prefer the alternative energy variant presented in Mind's eye.). Scaling, at-will ranged damage, a second mindblade-ish weapon in the form of the fire lash, abilities that improve a mindblade's damage.

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    Default Re: [3.5] So, a player wants to play a Soulknife1

    I've found the easiest way is to give him some magic items, or some in-setting training that results in the boosts proposed, applying retroactively. Full BAB, Pounce, can choose weapon design at will, etc.

    You can also throw some specific magic items and feats at him through the Arms and Equipment guide formula. Special Ioun's which improve his Mind Blade.

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    Default Re: [3.5] So, a player wants to play a Soulknife

    Quote Originally Posted by mabriss lethe View Post
    A class that, surprisingly, meshes fairly well with soulknife is pyrokineticist. (though I prefer the alternative energy variant presented in Mind's eye.). Scaling, at-will ranged damage, a second mindblade-ish weapon in the form of the fire lash, abilities that improve a mindblade's damage.
    And let's not forget most Ranged feats AND melee feats apply to the lash. Totally TWF AND Manyshot with it if you want to.

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    Default Re: [3.5] So, a player wants to play a Soulknife

    Quote Originally Posted by weckar View Post
    And let's not forget most Ranged feats AND melee feats apply to the lash. Totally TWF AND Manyshot with it if you want to.
    One of my favorite, relatively simple builds is SK6(for free draw)/PK9(for heat death fun)/soulbow5. Not exactly what you'd call high op, but fun.

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    Default Re: [3.5] So, a player wants to play a Soulknife

    Gestalt it with the Soulborn and allow the Mind's Eye acfs

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    Default Re: [3.5] So, a player wants to play a Soulknife

    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    The problem with Scout/Soulknife is that Skirmish requires movement and a full attack
    No, Skirmish only requires movement. Wanting to also have a full attack is just an optimization, trying to get an intended-for-one-attack damage bonus on multiple attacks per round.
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    Default Re: [3.5] So, a player wants to play a Soulknife

    again gonna have to mention what a few other's caught as well. you'll need to find out what your player actually wants to do.

    1. skirmish means you are asking them to move in some way which is going to complicate the build and make things take longer, granted a cleric dip is an easy fix but likely doesn't fit character concept. other options have been presented as well but...

    2. twf requires full attack and loading up on your +dmg. skirmish is a nice bonus and works decent with twf, especially if you can stack it with a pounce build but....

    3. you are asking for a throwing build which pounce doesn't really work with it. It CAN work with it yes... but why charge INTO melee to start throwing knives and speaking of which...

    4. a single class soulknife has to wait until level 17 to throw multiple blades. with the dips you are suggesting he will have to wait until level 20 use his character the way he wishes.

    In conclusion the 3.5 soulknife really is that broken (and not in the good way). I LOVE the idea of the soulknife it was THE first psionic class I saw and demanded to get an opportunity to play, but without a lenient DM this class has a hard time not becoming the 5th wheel. Homebrew may not be your thing but honestly in this instance especially IF the player wants to play a thowing SK I would do a straight port over of the soulbolt archetype of the PF SK only real difference is use the 3.5 skills and MAYBE if your game even uses heavy skill checks give him 6+/lvl.

    Again, I know this isn't the answer you want but with your request as is, homebrew/porting is your only option IMHO.
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    Default Re: [3.5] So, a player wants to play a Soulknife

    So, first and foremost, I'd suggest you up soulknife to a full bab. That would probably do you just fine. Now, other than that, this character is starting at level 9. Going straight Soulknife/Soulbow is probably going to give them more mileage than taking any levels of scout (especially since mixing scout and soulknife is two 3/4th bab classes, and that Hurts). Now, the reason that doesn't hurt so much with soulbow is because of the specific rule in the soulbow's mind arrow enhancement. It's a nice little buff that lets you apply your enhancement bonus to your base attack bonus as well. So your +3 mind arrow adds to your, what, 6/1 bab at soulknife 5/bow 4, and you get a bab of 9/4. That's just already there in soulbow. And there's two ways you can go about this, depending on the character's stat spread. If they have just one really good stat, and the rest are middling to bad, you can be a very effective soulknife thrower/soulbow shooter by focusing on wisdom. You go one attack per round, get zen archery, and take psionic shot, greater psionic shot, psychic meditation, and that feat whose name I'm not remembering at the moment where your shot becomes a line effect. You now have a cannon. You can open fights up already focused and already charged and shoot that cannon at some guy that you call out by pointing at them and going 'You'. Since the mind arrow is a one handed ranged weapon, you can then pull such shenanigans as using a heavy steel shield along with it, and when things go south, you'll still threaten in melee with mind arrows because of the soulbow close combat shot. with the far shot feat, or distance enhancement, or both, you can very handily stand in one place and take 5 foot steps to slowly walk your way through combat charging your bwah as a move action and unleashing it upon thine enemies. I've done this with a soulknife/illumine soul/soulbow. His BAB hurt, but most of the time I was shooting big attacks instead of many, because my targets tended to have good enough ac to warrant one bigger attack instead of multiple attacks.

    As mentioned, the other way to go is with dexterity so you can get things like the two weapon fighting chain and stack it onto things like rapid shot and haste for all of the attacks per round. Going this route, remember to add your enhancement bonus to your bab, because it will get you to +11/+6/+1 faster than pure soul knife, and to +16/+11/+6/+1, you know, Ever.

    If you have the free feats within 20 levels (since you can potentially pick up some of your ranged attacking feats from soulbow bonus feats) you may crack open tome of battle with the high dex build. Why? There's martial study, to grab a shadow hand maneuver. Then stance to get a shadow hand stance (like assassination stance, or the much more fun one that gives spiderclimb while you're in it). And finally there's a feat for shadow hand that, as long as you're in a shadow hand stance using shadow hand discipline weapons (small mind blades count as short swords), you get to add your dex to melee damage. If you can fit the feats in, this makes your Dex based soulknife a very effective two weapon fighter at any range. Requires weapon finesse to pull off though, so the pay off takes a while to get to with 3/4th bab.

    maybe a feat progression like:
    1 two weapon fighting
    h point blank shot
    3 weapon finesse
    6 martial study
    bfsoulbow 1 rapid shot
    9 martial stance
    bfsoulbow 3 far shot or many shot, or whatever
    12- whatever that feat is named, it's in tome of battle.

    edit: I suppose what I'm saying is that scout doesn't mesh well with soul knife if it doesn't advance mind blade. The enhancement bonus on the mind blade is kind of your only saving grace for having a decent attack bonus for your level when you're stuck on a 3/4th bab as a primary combat class, so having dead levels where that doesn't have any movement towards advancing becomes incredibly painful. Especially when you're mixing it with another 3/4th bab class. And you don't need scout to be high mobility and effective as a soulknife/soulbow, with Up The Walls and an immovable rod you can get into high positions that put you out of the reach of many things, while getting a clear shot/shots at them. It's not going to work so well with two weapon fighting unless you, like, make a harness to go with the immovable rod to keep your hands free, but then you're getting rather silly.
    Last edited by Sagetim; 2017-07-15 at 12:43 PM.

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