New OOTS products from CafePress
New OOTS t-shirts, ornaments, mugs, bags, and more
Page 7 of 45 FirstFirst 123456789101112131415161732 ... LastLast
Results 181 to 210 of 1321
  1. - Top - End - #181
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Talakeal's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Denver.
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Armor designs for females?

    Quote Originally Posted by Max_Killjoy View Post
    That's the thing -- when someone is going into a situation wearing an outfit that will get them killed, simply because said outfit is supposedly "sexy", then objectively, there's an issue.

    Going into hard vacuum in a getup that offers no protection is stupid... objectively stupid.

    Going into combat wearing a "sexy" getup that offers no protection from the weapons being used, no camouflage, no utility, nothing useful at all... objectively stupid.

    When an artist show me a character who's doing objectively stupid things, they're not telling me the character sexy or confident or whatever... they're telling me that the character is an idiot, or ignorant, or insane, or has a death wish.

    I honestly don't understand how "this character is going to die" is sexy to begin with.
    And yet for some reason this argument only comes up about "sexy" armor, not the thousands if not millions of characters who go into battle unarmored without anyone blinking an eye.

    As I said above, there are many genres, both historical and fantastic, where armor simply isn't a thing despite an abundance of melee combat.
    Last edited by Talakeal; 2017-07-22 at 12:36 PM.
    Looking for feedback on Heart of Darkness, a character driven RPG of Gothic fantasy.

  2. - Top - End - #182
    Titan in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Armor designs for females?

    Quote Originally Posted by Talakeal View Post
    And yet for some reason this argument only comes up about "sexy" armor, not the thousands if not millions of characters who go into battle unarmored without anyone blinking an eye.

    As I said above, there are many genres, both historical and fantastic, where armor simply isn't a thing despite an abundance of melee combat.
    Depending on the circumstances involved, that could be for a lot of reasons. Enemy weapons invalidating armor, where in the world you are, who the combatants are, quality of materials available for armor and weapon construction, magic... all of those can affect what armor, if any, is being worn.
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

  3. - Top - End - #183
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Max_Killjoy's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    The Lakes

    Default Re: Armor designs for females?

    Quote Originally Posted by Talakeal View Post
    Obviously its a 2d character, I stripped it down to bare-bones for the example.
    For #1 what do you mean by faithfulness to the setting? In most fantasy settings impractical armor is a part of the setting, so are you saying to make sure to go with the same aestetic, or are you saying the entire setting is cheapened by having impractical armor?
    #2 Is ideal, but my point was that it is a lot easier said than done.
    In regard to #1, yes, in a way, the entire setting is kinda cheapened.
    It is one thing to suspend your disbelief. It is another thing entirely to hang it by the neck until dead.

    Verisimilitude -- n, the appearance or semblance of truth, likelihood, or probability.

    The concern is not realism in speculative fiction, but rather the sense that a setting or story could be real, fostered by internal consistency and coherence.

    The Worldbuilding Forum -- where realities are born.

  4. - Top - End - #184
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Max_Killjoy's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    The Lakes

    Default Re: Armor designs for females?

    Quote Originally Posted by Talakeal View Post
    And yet for some reason this argument only comes up about "sexy" armor, not the thousands if not millions of characters who go into battle unarmored without anyone blinking an eye.

    As I said above, there are many genres, both historical and fantastic, where armor simply isn't a thing despite an abundance of melee combat.
    Depends on the setting, then -- is this one where lack of armor is fitting, or one where the writers/artists are just being ignorant?


    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    Depending on the circumstances involved, that could be for a lot of reasons. Enemy weapons invalidating armor, where in the world you are, who the combatants are, quality of materials available for armor and weapon construction, magic... all of those can affect what armor, if any, is being worn.
    Indeed -- and we can separate those settings in which we've been shown why little or no or "ornamental' armor is worn, from those settings in which everything we've been shown and told would seem to indicate that armor would be functional and yet functional armor is not worn.
    Last edited by Max_Killjoy; 2017-07-22 at 12:56 PM.
    It is one thing to suspend your disbelief. It is another thing entirely to hang it by the neck until dead.

    Verisimilitude -- n, the appearance or semblance of truth, likelihood, or probability.

    The concern is not realism in speculative fiction, but rather the sense that a setting or story could be real, fostered by internal consistency and coherence.

    The Worldbuilding Forum -- where realities are born.

  5. - Top - End - #185
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Ashiel's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2009

    Default Re: Armor designs for females?

    Quote Originally Posted by Max_Killjoy View Post
    That's the thing -- when someone is going into a situation wearing an outfit that will get them killed, simply because said outfit is supposedly "sexy", then objectively, there's an issue.
    It's usually an aesthetic thing, as I noted. Of course, the same could be said for having a character with long braided hair. Y'know, the kind that's perfect for an enemy to grab and yank you down with. And since armor doesn't necessarily equate to greater survivability in fantasy (remember those barbarians who can eat a hobgoblin's sword and walk it off), they might just like being flashy.

    Maybe they like getting drunk and charging into battle with their sword swinging, along with their two handed axe.

    Going into hard vacuum in a getup that offers no protection is stupid... objectively stupid.
    It probably appeals to somebody.

    Going into combat wearing a "sexy" getup that offers no protection from the weapons being used, no camouflage, no utility, nothing useful at all... objectively stupid.
    Incidentally, not wearing armor or wearing very little actually does provide useful benefits in D&D/Pathfinder. Particularly in regard to Dexterity based skills. There's functionally no difference between Mialee the wizard's outfit and Nebin the wizard's outfit. So demonstrably Mialee is doing nothing more or less stupid than Nebin. In fact, if her outfit is somehow lighter, she's actually probably better equipped for adventuring.

    And y'know what, you're free to think it's stupid. Power to you. Some people like it though. That's okay. If they're choosing to be a sexy shoeless god(or goddess) of war, who are we to judge. Enjoy what you like, others will enjoy what they like. Everyone wins.

    When an artist show me a character who's doing objectively stupid things, they're not telling me the character sexy or confident or whatever... they're telling me that the character is an idiot, or ignorant, or insane, or has a death wish.
    Maybe all of the above. Or maybe they have different priorities. Maybe they don't like wearing 40 lbs. of metal while walking around in a forest. Maybe they read too much Conan the Barbarian. Maybe they don't want to drown if they fall in water.

    I honestly don't understand how "this character is going to die" is sexy to begin with.
    Haha, here we go again.

    So it doesn't jive with your preferences. That's cool man. Some people just like to do things a little differently.
    Maybe like this. Or like this. Or perhaps like that. Or even that. Or something like this.

    So we can see that you prefer your aesthetics a certain way. Kudos. Good for you. That's cool.
    You are my God.

  6. - Top - End - #186
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Ashiel's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2009

    Default Re: Armor designs for females?

    Quote Originally Posted by Max_Killjoy View Post
    Depends on the setting, then -- is this one where lack of armor is fitting, or one where the writers/artists are just being ignorant?
    The irony of being offended on behalf of no one, while calling artists and authors ignorant. Perhaps there is a certain aesthetic appeal that they preferred. It might not be your cup of tea, but someone likes chocolate milk.

    Indeed -- and we can separate those settings in which we've been shown why little or no or "ornamental' armor is worn, from those settings in which everything we've been shown and told would seem to indicate that armor would be functional and yet functional armor is not worn.
    You must really hate all those pictures with knights not wearing their helmets.
    You are my God.

  7. - Top - End - #187
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Feb 2015

    Default Re: Armor designs for females?

    Quote Originally Posted by Talakeal View Post
    And yet for some reason this argument only comes up about "sexy" armor, not the thousands if not millions of characters who go into battle unarmored without anyone blinking an eye.
    This argument comes up with sexy armor. It hardly ever comes up with sexy clothing. The sexy armor is usually still heavy and/or rigid and very certainly uncomfortable. Yes, it is usually far worse then plain clothing arguably worse than being naked.

    Sexy clothing however is usually not worse than other clothing (baring climate concerns). In any setting, where people go into battle in normal clothing doing so instead in sexy clothing would not be a problem


    Going unarmored into battle when armor is availableand helps against contemporary weapons is also rarely a good idea, regardless how that armor looks. Most people going into battle without armor did so because they didn't have any or it was ineffective against contemporary weapons. The rich barbarian fighting the knight naked ia just an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ashiel View Post
    You must really hate all those pictures with knights not wearing their helmets.
    It is fast to equip a helmet. You won't have it on all the time. But yes, someone with any significant armor should have a helmet somewhere.
    Last edited by Satinavian; 2017-07-22 at 01:30 PM.

  8. - Top - End - #188
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Max_Killjoy's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    The Lakes

    Default Re: Armor designs for females?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashiel View Post
    It's usually an aesthetic thing, as I noted. Of course, the same could be said for having a character with long braided hair. Y'know, the kind that's perfect for an enemy to grab and yank you down with. And since armor doesn't necessarily equate to greater survivability in fantasy (remember those barbarians who can eat a hobgoblin's sword and walk it off), they might just like being flashy.

    Maybe they like getting drunk and charging into battle with their sword swinging, along with their two handed axe.


    It probably appeals to somebody.


    Incidentally, not wearing armor or wearing very little actually does provide useful benefits in D&D/Pathfinder. Particularly in regard to Dexterity based skills. There's functionally no difference between Mialee the wizard's outfit and Nebin the wizard's outfit. So demonstrably Mialee is doing nothing more or less stupid than Nebin. In fact, if her outfit is somehow lighter, she's actually probably better equipped for adventuring.
    Using rules designed around form-over-function genre-driven setting design to excuse the problems with that genre and setting is... circular, to say the least.

    Not only that, but you're committing the classic GitP error of assuming we're discussion D&D-like rules.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ashiel View Post
    Haha, here we go again.

    So it doesn't jive with your preferences. That's cool man. Some people just like to do things a little differently.
    Maybe like this. Or like this. Or perhaps like that. Or even that. Or something like this.

    So we can see that you prefer your aesthetics a certain way. Kudos. Good for you. That's cool.
    The only preferences that "this character is going to die" would seem to appeal to is known as "snuff". If anyone doesn't know what that refers to, looking it up is probably going to get you NSFW hits.


    The problem is, you keep looking at this as an issue of subjective aesthetics, when it's not -- it's an issue of objective functionality. And in the case of settings that claim to be historically accurate, grounded, or inspired, there's the issue of objective accuracy or at least the attempt at it, as well.
    Last edited by Max_Killjoy; 2017-07-22 at 01:40 PM.
    It is one thing to suspend your disbelief. It is another thing entirely to hang it by the neck until dead.

    Verisimilitude -- n, the appearance or semblance of truth, likelihood, or probability.

    The concern is not realism in speculative fiction, but rather the sense that a setting or story could be real, fostered by internal consistency and coherence.

    The Worldbuilding Forum -- where realities are born.

  9. - Top - End - #189
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Max_Killjoy's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    The Lakes

    Default Re: Armor designs for females?

    Quote Originally Posted by Satinavian View Post
    This argument comes up with sexy armor. It hardly ever comes up with sexy clothing. The sexy armor is usually still heavy and/or rigid and very certainly uncomfortable. Yes, it is usually far worse then plain clothing arguably worse than being naked.

    Sexy clothing however is usually not worse than other clothing (baring climate concerns). In any setting, where people go into battle in normal clothing doing so instead in sexy clothing would not be a problem
    Important point -- if you're going to the expense and trouble of wearing around armor, why wear armor that's useless?


    Quote Originally Posted by Satinavian View Post
    Going unarmored into battle when armor is available and helps against contemporary weapons is also rarely a good idea, regardless how that armor looks. Most people going into battle without armor did so because they didn't have any or it was ineffective against contemporary weapons. The rich barbarian fighting the knight naked is just an idiot.
    Indeed -- aesthetics be damned.
    It is one thing to suspend your disbelief. It is another thing entirely to hang it by the neck until dead.

    Verisimilitude -- n, the appearance or semblance of truth, likelihood, or probability.

    The concern is not realism in speculative fiction, but rather the sense that a setting or story could be real, fostered by internal consistency and coherence.

    The Worldbuilding Forum -- where realities are born.

  10. - Top - End - #190
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Armor designs for females?

    ITT: People prefer a certain aesthetic, argues that others are stupid for not preferring the same aesthetic.

    It'll be really interesting to think which side of the argument people think this applies to.
    It always amazes me how often people on forums would rather accuse you of misreading their posts with malice than re-explain their ideas with clarity.

  11. - Top - End - #191
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Ashiel's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2009

    Default Re: Armor designs for females?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vitruviansquid View Post
    ITT: People prefer a certain aesthetic, argues that others are stupid for not preferring the same aesthetic.

    It'll be really interesting to think which side of the argument people think this applies to.
    Pretty much this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Max_Killjoy
    Not only that, but you're committing the classic GitP error of assuming we're discussion D&D-like rules.
    You don't say? But wait a minute...
    Quote Originally Posted by ORIGINAL POST
    So I was wondering, over the few editions of D&D, how did armor look for female characters?

    I'd imagine it got a bit more modest as the years went by, considering D&D's audience in the early years...
    It's almost like the pros and cons of more or less armor is somehow connected to how it works out in fantasy roleplaying games that are D&D-like. It was probably aliens.

    Important point -- if you're going to the expense and trouble of wearing around armor, why wear armor that's useless?
    You're proud of your pecks. Amusingly, an armor that grants +0 armor is still potentially useful in D&D.

    But here's some more pictures of Mialee.
    Mialee #1
    Mialee #2
    Mialee #3
    Hennet as a bonus.

    EDIT:
    The only preferences that "this character is going to die" would seem to appeal to is known as "snuff". If anyone doesn't know what that refers to, looking it up is probably going to get you NSFW hits.
    It's no more snuff material than swashbuckling pirates. That's factual. You can't say characters like Mialee are snuff bait if Captain Jack Sparrow isn't too.

    The problem is, you keep looking at this as an issue of subjective aesthetics, when it's not -- it's an issue of objective functionality. And in the case of settings that claim to be historically accurate, grounded, or inspired, there's the issue of objective accuracy or at least the attempt at it, as well.
    And which fantasy setting is that by the way? Every one I've ever seen doesn't really mesh with that idea. We've got armor spikes (terrible design), helmets with flashy horns and stuff on them, spiked chains, and all kinds of goofy (but awesome) stuff.

    Or maybe you mean NOT-D&D, in which case, I guess that also includes things like Star Wars, Star Trek, and lots of other fantasy and/or sci-fi settings where people go about and fight and do crazy stuff without wearing armor.
    Last edited by Ashiel; 2017-07-22 at 02:33 PM.
    You are my God.

  12. - Top - End - #192

    Default Re: Armor designs for females?

    I find it a little strange people are debating the real-world merits of various types of women's armour, when most people here when they play TRPGs are probably playing TRPGs that don't feature particularly realistic rules for hand-to-hand combat.

  13. - Top - End - #193
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Dragonexx's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Behind you!
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Armor designs for females?

    Important point -- if you're going to the expense and trouble of wearing around armor, why wear armor that's useless?
    Rule of cool/sexy. Because GASP! Some people have more fun with selective realism, than constant realism.
    Last edited by Dragonexx; 2017-07-22 at 02:36 PM.
    Pokemon Mystery Dungeon D20: A system designed for adventuring in a Pokemon Mystery Dungeon world.

    The Review/Analysis Thread: In-depth reviews of various games and RPG products.

    The New/Redone Monsters Thread: Taking bad or bland monsters and making them more interesting and challenging.

    Yu-Gi-Oh!: Realms of Myth: In the world of monsters, Winda and Wynn go on an "epic" journey to find the legendary Dark Magician.

    Keys to the Contract: A crossover between Madoka and Kingdom Hearts.

  14. - Top - End - #194
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Ashiel's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2009

    Default Re: Armor designs for females?

    Quote Originally Posted by Donnadogsoth View Post
    I find it a little strange people are debating the real-world merits of various types of women's armour, when most people here when they play TRPGs are probably playing TRPGs that don't feature particularly realistic rules for hand-to-hand combat.
    Indeed. Even things like Shadowrun have folks running around in a biker jacket and a wolf claw necklace while fighting cyborg samurai and trolls with rocket launchers. This all goes back to what I said before.

    1. Someone has some style they don't like. They then proceed to...

    A. "Think of the children women!"
    B. "Think of the realism (but ignore studded leather, combat mechanics, space pirates, and everything else that's not realistic and/or spits on historical accuracy)!"
    C. "I don't like it and you shouldn't either!"

    It's repeated every single time. They come up with delightful little ways of justifying why their position must be the right position. Often wiggling and waggling around themselves as some instances are fine but others aren't. Sure it's fine for Han Solo to run around in a vest while getting shot at. That's just the setting (except it isn't). It's snuff fetishism to have a lady barbarian running around in some hide scraps and swinging swords, but it's high adventure when Captain Jack Sparrow wear's a thin shirt and a hat while fighting sea monsters and soldiers with swords and guns and not snuff fantasy.

    It's so old it's classic. Notice that nobody has actually addressed anything I said directly as well. We've gotten indignation, insulting artists, some herp-de-derp about circular logic, etc. Yeah, it's aesthetics. My brother likes stuff like this. Meanwhile, another friend likes stuff like this. Another still, likes stuff like this.

    They're a great group.
    EDIT: Bonus points of you can guess the sex of the loli vampire and the succubus appreciators.
    Last edited by Ashiel; 2017-07-22 at 03:00 PM.
    You are my God.

  15. - Top - End - #195

    Default Re: Armor designs for females?

    It has nothing to do with aesthetics, it's a matter of how women are depicted in fantasy, and the real world attitudes that depiction dovetails into. People bring up realism because it brings up the logical question "why is this character dressed this way". If you can actually come up with a logical answer, like that as an inhuman fiend who's entire gig is seduction of course that succubus is going to go around half naked, it's fine. If your only answer is "because boobs", there's a problem, and it's a pandering problem.

  16. - Top - End - #196

    Default Re: Armor designs for females?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashiel View Post
    Indeed. Even things like Shadowrun have folks running around in a biker jacket and a wolf claw necklace while fighting cyborg samurai and trolls with rocket launchers. This all goes back to what I said before.

    1. Someone has some style they don't like. They then proceed to...

    A. "Think of the children women!"
    B. "Think of the realism (but ignore studded leather, combat mechanics, space pirates, and everything else that's not realistic and/or spits on historical accuracy)!"
    C. "I don't like it and you shouldn't either!"

    It's repeated every single time. They come up with delightful little ways of justifying why their position must be the right position. Often wiggling and waggling around themselves as some instances are fine but others aren't. Sure it's fine for Han Solo to run around in a vest while getting shot at. That's just the setting (except it isn't). It's snuff fetishism to have a lady barbarian running around in some hide scraps and swinging swords, but it's high adventure when Captain Jack Sparrow wear's a thin shirt and a hat while fighting sea monsters and soldiers with swords and guns and not snuff fantasy.

    It's so old it's classic. Notice that nobody has actually addressed anything I said directly as well. We've gotten indignation, insulting artists, some herp-de-derp about circular logic, etc. Yeah, it's aesthetics. My brother likes stuff like this. Meanwhile, another friend likes stuff like this. Another still, likes stuff like this.

    They're a great group.
    EDIT: Bonus points of you can guess the sex of the loli vampire and the succubus appreciators.
    I agree. There is a place for realism laced with selected unrealism, though, I'm sure you'd agree. Just because magic exists in a setting doesn't mean that the world has to be upside down and inside out and reverse polarity, with talking bunny rabbits and binary stars in the sky "because it's just fantasy". (Similar to my pet peeve of when people say "It's just a movie".) We can construct realistic worlds that happen to have a few fantastical elements. So, I can accept a magical land where women wear practical armour etc, just as I can accept that the setting can be so fantastical that women wear chainmail bikinis.

  17. - Top - End - #197
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Ashiel's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2009

    Default Re: Armor designs for females?

    Quote Originally Posted by War_lord View Post
    It has nothing to do with aesthetics, it's a matter of how women are depicted in fantasy, and the real world attitudes that depiction dovetails into.
    Yeah, and I'm sure vidja gaems make people violent too.

    People bring up realism because it brings up the logical question "why is this character dressed this way". If you can actually come up with a logical answer, like that as an inhuman fiend who's entire gig is seduction of course that succubus is going to go around half naked, it's fine. If your only answer is "because boobs", there's a problem, and it's a pandering problem.
    What's the logical reason for Conan the Barbarian to dress like the cover of a women's romance novel dudebro?

    I mean, the dude fights wizards and warriors in a pair of fur boots and some booty shorts.

    Because some people like it that way.
    You are my God.

  18. - Top - End - #198
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Armor designs for females?

    It's only "pandering" when other people get what they want.

    When you get what you want, man, that's just good aesthetics.
    It always amazes me how often people on forums would rather accuse you of misreading their posts with malice than re-explain their ideas with clarity.

  19. - Top - End - #199
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Mike_G's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Laughing with the sinners
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Armor designs for females?

    Eh.

    Art is subjective. It's what you like. Rubens painted a lot of classical figures from mythology running around nekkid in dangerous situations.

    I think it comes down to what you want your art to represent.

    I think chainmail bikinis are silly, but I think Conan in a jock strap is equally silly. Both characters are poorly dressed for a swordfight. I can handle poorly armored pirates, because they don't want to fall overboard in 40 pounds of steel, and they expect to face muskets and cannon where armor won't help anyway.

    I'm not against showing skin in fantasy art, but I'd like it make sense. Scantily clad sorceresses or gold bikini Leia are narratively logical because a sorceress is protected by magic and a slave in a harem is...well...objectified on purpose.

    If you like full plate with a bare midriff, well, that's what you like. But it does seem counter productive to put on all that armor and leave the vitals uncovered. Like the half naked barbarian fighting frost giants on a snowy mountain. It breaks my immersion in the fantasy.

    My biggest peeve is the huge Anime weapons that look like they weigh fifty pounds and have a skinny little handle for a blade two feet wide. I think they look preposterous, but people like them.

    I've gotten too old and tired to waste my time hating other people's favorite art. I like what I like, which runs to realistic armor, but that doesn't mean you have to like it.
    Last edited by Mike_G; 2017-07-22 at 03:57 PM.
    Out of wine comes truth, out of truth the vision clears, and with vision soon appears a grand design. From the grand design we can understand the world. And when you understand the world, you need a lot more wine.


  20. - Top - End - #200
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Ashiel's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2009

    Default Re: Armor designs for females?

    Quote Originally Posted by Donnadogsoth View Post
    I agree. There is a place for realism laced with selected unrealism, though, I'm sure you'd agree. Just because magic exists in a setting doesn't mean that the world has to be upside down and inside out and reverse polarity, with talking bunny rabbits and binary stars in the sky "because it's just fantasy". (Similar to my pet peeve of when people say "It's just a movie".) We can construct realistic worlds that happen to have a few fantastical elements. So, I can accept a magical land where women wear practical armour etc, just as I can accept that the setting can be so fantastical that women wear chainmail bikinis.
    Exactly. That's the beauty of it. Hennet and Tordek both exist in the same setting. Everyone wins. Whether you're a burly mail covered rack of meat, or a lean dude with a well oiled chest and a bondage fetish. You do you.

    So riddle me this Bat-people: what aesthetic am I defending?
    For bonus points, what sorts of art do you suspect I use for my characters?
    You are my God.

  21. - Top - End - #201
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Ashiel's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2009

    Default Re: Armor designs for females?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike_G View Post
    I think chainmail bikinis are silly, but I think Conan in a jock strap is equally silly. Both characters are poorly dressed for a swordfight. I can handle poorly armored pirates, because they don't want to fall overboard in 40 pounds of steel, and they expect to face muskets and cannon where armor won't help anyway.
    Psst...I agree with everything you said, but armor totes works against muskets (you got me on the cannons though).
    You are my God.

  22. - Top - End - #202
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Daemon

    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Corvallis, OR
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Armor designs for females?

    I agree about the aesthetics issue. In addition, the art is rarely intended as a literal depiction. It's in large part symbolic (like wings on angels). On a female warrior it depicts "I'm sexy and BA at the same time." Not all art is photorealistic. In fact, most art isn't. So complaining about realism is completely missing the point.

    Note:I don't like the style because in many cases it borders on soft-core porn, just like the covers of romance novels or the swimsuit edition of SI. That's a personal moral thing.

    Frankly, realism doesn't do much for me. I play games to escape reality, if but a bit. I prefer the fantastic, where I can have gnomes riding inside golems and people with improbable pauldrons. YMMV, but de gustibas and all that. Remember: "I don't like it" is not the same as "it's bad".
    Dawn of Hope: a 5e setting. http://wiki.admiralbenbo.org
    Rogue Equivalent Damage calculator, now prettier and more configurable!
    5e Monster Data Sheet--vital statistics for all 693 MM, Volo's, and now MToF monsters: Updated!
    NIH system 5e fork, very much WIP. Base github repo.
    NIH System PDF Up to date main-branch build version.

  23. - Top - End - #203
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Ashiel's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2009

    Default Re: Armor designs for females?

    Quote Originally Posted by PhoenixPhyre View Post
    I agree about the aesthetics issue. In addition, the art is rarely intended as a literal depiction. It's in large part symbolic (like wings on angels). On a female warrior it depicts "I'm sexy and BA at the same time." Not all art is photorealistic. In fact, most art isn't. So complaining about realism is completely missing the point.

    Note:I don't like the style because in many cases it borders on soft-core porn, just like the covers of romance novels or the swimsuit edition of SI. That's a personal moral thing.

    Frankly, realism doesn't do much for me. I play games to escape reality, if but a bit. I prefer the fantastic, where I can have gnomes riding inside golems and people with improbable pauldrons. YMMV, but de gustibas and all that. Remember: "I don't like it" is not the same as "it's bad".
    And as noted before, +1 respect to you, good Phoenix. I wish more people would be as honest and open-minded.
    You are my God.

  24. - Top - End - #204
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    ElfRogueGirl

    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    It's kind of dark.
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: Armor designs for females?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike_G View Post
    I think chainmail bikinis are silly, but I think Conan in a jock strap is equally silly. Both characters are poorly dressed for a swordfight. I can handle poorly armored pirates, because they don't want to fall overboard in 40 pounds of steel, and they expect to face muskets and cannon where armor won't help anyway.
    The main reason Conan in a jockstrap is silly is that the freezing cold climate in his home land would have killed him before he had a chance to get into a real fight.

    And when discussing pirates without armor, we should probably keep in mind that in the time period of Jack Sparrow and his piratical colleagues (late 1600s to mid-170s), members of various national navy forces around the world didn't really wear armor either. Fighting in regular clothing was kind of normal. Though naked would have been safer - bits of clothing getting stuck in a wound and infecting it was the leading cause of death for rapier fighters there for awhile.
    I say we can go where we want to, a place where they will never find. And we can act like we come from out of this world, leave the real one far behind. We can dance.

    The Adventures of Amber Yarrowhill, IC and OOC

    In the Hands of an Angry God June 2017 - November 2018. RIP.

    My Player Registry Entry

  25. - Top - End - #205
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Armor designs for females?

    I think realism is cool. the Dar-emon Souls series has some of my favorite armor designs that cleave to realistic.

    I think that unrealism is cool as well.

    People just need to acknowledge that the appearance of realism is as much an aesthetic choice as departure from realism.
    It always amazes me how often people on forums would rather accuse you of misreading their posts with malice than re-explain their ideas with clarity.

  26. - Top - End - #206
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Mike_G's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Laughing with the sinners
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Armor designs for females?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashiel View Post
    Psst...I agree with everything you said, but armor totes works against muskets (you got me on the cannons though).
    I'll give you that. Good armor will work against muskets. But anything heavy enough to stop a musket ball would be hard to wear climbing the rigging or swinging on ropes or otherwise bucking one's swash.
    Out of wine comes truth, out of truth the vision clears, and with vision soon appears a grand design. From the grand design we can understand the world. And when you understand the world, you need a lot more wine.


  27. - Top - End - #207
    Banned
     
    Kobold

    Join Date
    Jul 2014

    Default Re: Armor designs for females?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vitruviansquid View Post
    I think realism is cool. the Dar-emon Souls series has some of my favorite armor designs that cleave to realistic.

    I think that unrealism is cool as well.

    People just need to acknowledge that the appearance of realism is as much an aesthetic choice as departure from realism.
    There is a significant amount of Dark Souls armor that is just flat unrealistic.

    Havel the Rock's armor is not practical at all.
    The Thorn Armor? Your first roll on a wooden surface would see you attached to that surface and stuck.

    Understated fantasticalness is not the same as realism.

  28. - Top - End - #208
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Armor designs for females?

    Quote Originally Posted by ImNotTrevor View Post
    There is a significant amount of Dark Souls armor that is just flat unrealistic.

    Havel the Rock's armor is not practical at all.
    The Thorn Armor? Your first roll on a wooden surface would see you attached to that surface and stuck.

    Understated fantasticalness is not the same as realism.
    Well, that's why I used the word "some"
    It always amazes me how often people on forums would rather accuse you of misreading their posts with malice than re-explain their ideas with clarity.

  29. - Top - End - #209
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    WolfInSheepsClothing

    Join Date
    Oct 2011

    Default Re: Armor designs for females?

    Quote Originally Posted by War_lord View Post
    It has nothing to do with aesthetics, it's a matter of how women are depicted in fantasy, and the real world attitudes that depiction dovetails into.
    Man, what have people been feeding that bull? Thing needs to go on a diet.
    Quote Originally Posted by War_lord View Post
    People bring up realism because it brings up the logical question "why is this character dressed this way".
    Because it looks cool/neat/sexy/stylish/like how the artist felt that day.
    Quote Originally Posted by War_lord View Post
    If you can actually come up with a logical answer, like that as an inhuman fiend who's entire gig is seduction of course that succubus is going to go around half naked, it's fine. If your only answer is "because boobs", there's a problem, and it's a pandering problem.
    Why is it a problem? What is pandering? Is that like "giving customers what they want?" That's a problem, now? Is it pandering if you're the artist and you like that style? Are you allowed to draw what you like? Because that's what most artists and authors do: they draw or write what they like, and if other people like it, great. Is that also a problem?

    The only problem is if you've paid for the artwork and the artist didn't give you what you agreed upon. THEN it's a problem. Do you have a bad experience hiring from Deviant Art where your heroine got F cups when you specified Bs?

  30. - Top - End - #210
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    LordCdrMilitant's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Inner Palace, Holy Terra
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: Armor designs for females?

    My 2c on fantasy female armor: The debate is not about practicality, because we have a fairly good idea what "practical" looks like for armor. The question is "what impracticality should women's armor be allowed". There's the obvious double standard that the impracticalities allowed for women's armor tend to be different than those allowed for men, and that's the crux of the debate.


    What I believe is important is that I am satisfied with the appearance of my own outfit. This applies to both men and women.

    If I do, or don't, want to wear a shaped breastplate, that's my prerogative.
    Last edited by LordCdrMilitant; 2017-07-22 at 05:42 PM.
    Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •