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  1. - Top - End - #151
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    tyckspoon's Avatar

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    Default Re: Samurai vs Soulknife: The Ultimate Showdown

    Quote Originally Posted by Jormengand View Post
    I too can see why a soulknife apologist may wish to compare the class whose only feature is a third-rate weapon to a class with real armour proficiency as though neither of them had any items. I suppose we're lucky that the samurai's first-level class feature says he gets a katana and wakizashi at first level or you'd be making him try to punch the soulknife until the latter stops moving.
    The Samurai's first level feature is just Bastard Sword Proficiency. He doesn't actually get the daisho - only the ability to wield the larger sword should he choose to buy one. (If they did get a free daisho, that would be a reasonably nice first level feature, since the katana and wakizashi are explicitly and specifically masterwork.. although probably more usefully used to pawn and buy fighting animals or hIrelings similar to the selling a wizards spellbook trick.)

  2. - Top - End - #152
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    GreenSorcererElf

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    Default Re: Samurai vs Soulknife: The Ultimate Showdown

    Quote Originally Posted by Jormengand View Post
    I too can see why a soulknife apologist may wish to compare the class whose only feature is a third-rate weapon to a class with real armour proficiency as though neither of them had any items. I suppose we're lucky that the samurai's first-level class feature says he gets a katana and wakizashi at first level or you'd be making him try to punch the soulknife until the latter stops moving.

    We're also ignoring that the soulknife is absolute trash rather than just relative trash at low levels, where no literally it just has a nonmagical sword and that's it, so how this hypothetical soulknife even survived to reach level 20 (hiding behind a Samurai, who can at least hit things for regular bastard sword damage every round, perhaps?) I don't know.
    A decent dex combined with gloves of dex combined with chain shirt gives the soulknife comparable ac to the samurai's full plate... no advantage there.
    The best feature of the soulknife is being able to melee the samurai... at range. The Samurai has no defense against that, pretty much making a soulknife beating the samurai a guarantee.
    The Samurai's attack pattern (20th) will be 16/16/11/11/6/6/1 (wakizashi is not a light weapon) Let's take the soulknife's base attack pattern: 15/10/5.
    Obviously, the Samurai's attack pattern is far better. The soulknife can go the twf route, but he has a far betger option: two handed bastard sword. Since he can throw his mind blade, his best option is to charge his mindblade and throw it as the samurai approaches. Smacking at range for 1d10+5+1d4+5d8+6(34avg) two times before the samurai even gets into melee is a huge advantage.
    Oh, and you know that heavy armor? Yeah... the soulknife can move faster. So you move up, soulknife moves away pelting you with bastard swords.
    Only way the samurai wins is if he can corner the soulknife.

  3. - Top - End - #153
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    Default Re: Samurai vs Soulknife: The Ultimate Showdown

    In the Soulknife's Mind Blade section, there are rules that say the Soulknife can make a roll to maintain the Mind Blade in a null psionics field.

    Under the PF version, additional rules says that even if he makes the roll, the magical enhancements are still suppressed.

    The 3.x version doesn't have this.

    I'm wondering if there's any consensus on whether the mindblade retains its enhancements in a null psionics/AMF for the v3.5 Soulknife?

  4. - Top - End - #154
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    Default Re: Samurai vs Soulknife: The Ultimate Showdown

    Quote Originally Posted by Calthropstu View Post
    The Samurai's attack pattern (20th) will be 16/16/11/11/6/6/1 (wakizashi is not a light weapon)
    Wakizashi is a masterwork short sword, so it is a light weapon.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buufreak View Post
    Cookie cutter racial cheese aside, we should probably keep an eye on the whole "Dwarf only" bit of the OP. But hey, that's just me. Everyone feel free to throw out more op tricks that are 100% topic irrelevant. :P

  5. - Top - End - #155
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    GreenSorcererElf

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    Default Re: Samurai vs Soulknife: The Ultimate Showdown

    Quote Originally Posted by DEMON View Post
    Wakizashi is a masterwork short sword, so it is a light weapon.
    Errr... where are you getting that from?

  6. - Top - End - #156
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    Default Re: Samurai vs Soulknife: The Ultimate Showdown

    Quote Originally Posted by Calthropstu View Post
    Errr... where are you getting that from?
    It's mentioned several times in the Samurai block in Complete Warrior.

    Such as the description of his Daisho Proficiency class feature.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buufreak View Post
    Cookie cutter racial cheese aside, we should probably keep an eye on the whole "Dwarf only" bit of the OP. But hey, that's just me. Everyone feel free to throw out more op tricks that are 100% topic irrelevant. :P

  7. - Top - End - #157
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    Default Re: Samurai vs Soulknife: The Ultimate Showdown

    Quote Originally Posted by tyckspoon View Post
    The Samurai's first level feature is just Bastard Sword Proficiency. He doesn't actually get the daisho - only the ability to wield the larger sword should he choose to buy one. (If they did get a free daisho, that would be a reasonably nice first level feature, since the katana and wakizashi are explicitly and specifically masterwork.. although probably more usefully used to pawn and buy fighting animals or hIrelings similar to the selling a wizards spellbook trick.)
    "Many Samurai" apparently do; while I suppose a DM could technically say "You're one of the few samurai who don't!" I don't think I'd ever do that.
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  8. - Top - End - #158
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    Default Re: Samurai vs Soulknife: The Ultimate Showdown

    Quote Originally Posted by Calthropstu View Post
    A decent dex combined with gloves of dex combined with chain shirt gives the soulknife comparable ac to the samurai's full plate... no advantage there.
    The best feature of the soulknife is being able to melee the samurai... at range. The Samurai has no defense against that, pretty much making a soulknife beating the samurai a guarantee.
    The Samurai's attack pattern (20th) will be 16/16/11/11/6/6/1 (wakizashi is not a light weapon) Let's take the soulknife's base attack pattern: 15/10/5.
    Obviously, the Samurai's attack pattern is far better. The soulknife can go the twf route, but he has a far betger option: two handed bastard sword. Since he can throw his mind blade, his best option is to charge his mindblade and throw it as the samurai approaches. Smacking at range for 1d10+5+1d4+5d8+6(34avg) two times before the samurai even gets into melee is a huge advantage.
    Oh, and you know that heavy armor? Yeah... the soulknife can move faster. So you move up, soulknife moves away pelting you with bastard swords.
    Only way the samurai wins is if he can corner the soulknife.
    Throwing a two-handed weapon is a full-round action.

    What range are you presuming they are starting at? If soulknife is investing to improve their AC, why is the samurai not investing to improve their speed?

    EDIT: We are still looking for someone to run the showdown, any takers?
    Last edited by The Viscount; Yesterday at 07:04 PM.
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