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  1. - Top - End - #61
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    Tainted_Scholar's Avatar

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    Default Re: Samurai vs Soulknife: The Ultimate Showdown

    So now we have two Samurai.
    The False Balance Fallacy

    The tendency to interpret the rules, not based on any validity with RAW or logic, but that which makes the game (in their eyes) more balanced.
    This tendency is often fueled by the incorrect belief that the game is balanced or the desire for it to be.

  2. - Top - End - #62
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    Default Re: Samurai vs Soulknife: The Ultimate Showdown

    So now we have two Samurai.
    2 down, 5 to go
    thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar

  3. - Top - End - #63
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    WhiteWizardGirl

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    Default Re: Samurai vs Soulknife: The Ultimate Showdown

    Quote Originally Posted by The Viscount View Post
    Ok my samurai is finished and ready for action. Let me know if there are any questions, or we can start the deathmatch.
    How funny, I built a Samurai too.

    Speaking of:

    Spoiler: Sammy the Samurai
    Show

    Level 20 Samurai

    Dragonborn, Lesser Cansin

    Lawful Neutral

    HP: 225

    Movement: Land 30', Flight 30' (average maneuverability)

    STR: 27 (+8)
    DEX: 18 (+4)
    CON: 22 (+6)
    INT: 16 (+3)
    WIS: 14 (+2)
    CHA: 34 (+12)

    Initiative: +12

    BAB: 20/15/10/5

    Melee: 28/23/18/13

    AC: 20

    FORT: +23
    REF: +15
    WILL: +9 (+29 with Moment of the Perfect Mind)

    Skills:
    Intimidate: +38 (23 Ranks)
    Concentration: +29 (23 Ranks)

    Flaws:
    Fussy: -4 to poison on Fort Saves, can't drink potions or becomes naueseated
    Love of Nature: DC 12 Will save VS attacking Animals, Vermin, and Plants

    Racial Abilities:
    Flight

    Spoiler: Feats
    Show

    Martial Stance: Moment of the Perfect Mind
    Power Attack
    Skill Focus: Intimidate
    Improved Bull Rush
    Imperious Command
    Improved Initative (Bonus Feat)
    Shock Trooper
    Shape Soulmeld (Crystal Helm) [+2 to WILL VS Charm/Complusion, when bound, all attack gain FORCE descriptor]
    Open Least Chakra (Crown, +1 to WILL)
    Split Chakra


    Spoiler: Class Features
    Show

    Daisho Profciency
    Two Swords as One (Improved, Greater)
    Kiai Smite 4/day
    Iajjutsu Master
    Staredown (Improved)
    Bonus Feat: Improved Initiative
    Mass Staredown
    Frightful Presence


    Spoiler: Gear
    Show

    Cloak of Resistance (25,000 GP)
    Manual of Gainful Exercise (137,500)
    Tome of Leadership and Influence (137,500)
    Cowl of Warding (200,800)
    Belt of Magnificence +6 (200,000)
    +2 Fearsome Death Ward Mithral Chainmail (7,250)
    +1 Eager Initiative Greatsword (38,350, +4 init)
    4,850 GP left



    I made a few minor updates.
    Last edited by ColorBlindNinja; 2017-07-20 at 10:40 AM.

  4. - Top - End - #64
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    The Viscount's Avatar

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    Default Re: Samurai vs Soulknife: The Ultimate Showdown

    On Friday I'd be available after around 4:30 EST, though ColorBlindNinja is welcome to take first crack at it.
    Kolyarut Avatar by Potatocubed.
    Quote Originally Posted by willpell View Post
    Only playing Tier 1s is like only eating in five-star restaurants [...] sometimes I just want a cheeseburger and some frogurt. Why limit yourself?
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  5. - Top - End - #65
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    RogueGuy

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    Default Re: Samurai vs Soulknife: The Ultimate Showdown

    Viscount, I think you have some items that violate the "no custom item" rule?

  6. - Top - End - #66
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    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: Samurai vs Soulknife: The Ultimate Showdown

    I saw the items, he only combined printed items and those that occupied the same slot. It's not as much custom items as much as it is using magic item slots to their full potential.
    Last edited by flappeercraft; 2017-07-20 at 11:31 AM.

  7. - Top - End - #67
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    RogueGuy

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    Default Re: Samurai vs Soulknife: The Ultimate Showdown

    Quote Originally Posted by flappeercraft View Post
    I saw the items, he only combined printed items and those that occupied the same slot. It's not as much custom items as much as it is using magic item slots to their full potential.
    Alright that was outside what I was going to consider acceptable, but if others think we should allow that then I'll agree. What do people think?

  8. - Top - End - #68
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    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: Samurai vs Soulknife: The Ultimate Showdown

    I don't really have a problem with it, most DMs I've played with allowed that and as shown by his character neither does Viscount. But anyone think this is ok or should it be disallowed?

  9. - Top - End - #69
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    WhiteWizardGirl

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    Default Re: Samurai vs Soulknife: The Ultimate Showdown

    Quote Originally Posted by flappeercraft View Post
    I don't really have a problem with it, most DMs I've played with allowed that and as shown by his character neither does Viscount. But anyone think this is ok or should it be disallowed?
    I can tell you right now that I'd save a ton of money for my build if it's allowed.

  10. - Top - End - #70
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    RogueGuy

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    Default Re: Samurai vs Soulknife: The Ultimate Showdown

    Quote Originally Posted by ColorBlindNinja View Post
    I can tell you right now that I'd save a ton of money for my build if it's allowed.
    That doesn't answer the question of whether you think it SHOULD be allowed though lol. The fact that you're one of the builds doesn't mean you can't vote on things like that, this isn't a player/DM dynamic. We're all working together to come up with things, I'm just trying to manage stuff since I started the thread.

  11. - Top - End - #71
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    The Viscount's Avatar

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    Default Re: Samurai vs Soulknife: The Ultimate Showdown

    Ah. I had wondered if that would be allowed.

    That's fine, the cloak of minor displacement is just for some miss chance and the gauntlets of heartfelt blows are just for faster damage. I'll get rid of them and just have the normal items. Sheet updated with those changes.

    What's the verdict on Tumble? I can change that, too, if it's a problem.
    Last edited by The Viscount; 2017-07-20 at 12:30 PM.
    Kolyarut Avatar by Potatocubed.
    Quote Originally Posted by willpell View Post
    Only playing Tier 1s is like only eating in five-star restaurants [...] sometimes I just want a cheeseburger and some frogurt. Why limit yourself?
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  12. - Top - End - #72
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    RogueGuy

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    Default Re: Samurai vs Soulknife: The Ultimate Showdown

    Quote Originally Posted by The Viscount View Post
    Ah. I had wondered if that would be allowed.

    That's fine, the cloak of minor displacement is just for some miss chance and the gauntlets of heartfelt blows are just for faster damage. I'll get rid of them and just have the normal items. Sheet updated with those changes.

    What's the verdict on Tumble? I can change that, too, if it's a problem.
    Still waiting on a few more people to weigh in, it SEEMS like people may be in favor but some builds may need a little reworking if we change it so I'm not sure yet.

    What's the tumble issue?

  13. - Top - End - #73
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    WhiteWizardGirl

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    Default Re: Samurai vs Soulknife: The Ultimate Showdown

    Quote Originally Posted by Hackulator View Post
    That doesn't answer the question of whether you think it SHOULD be allowed though lol. The fact that you're one of the builds doesn't mean you can't vote on things like that, this isn't a player/DM dynamic. We're all working together to come up with things, I'm just trying to manage stuff since I started the thread.
    In that case, I vote for item combinations.

  14. - Top - End - #74
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    The Viscount's Avatar

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    Default Re: Samurai vs Soulknife: The Ultimate Showdown

    I nabbed tumble as a class skill by trading ride via Skilled City Dweller. It's an ACF, which might be crossing the "variant rule" parameter?
    Kolyarut Avatar by Potatocubed.
    Quote Originally Posted by willpell View Post
    Only playing Tier 1s is like only eating in five-star restaurants [...] sometimes I just want a cheeseburger and some frogurt. Why limit yourself?
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  15. - Top - End - #75
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    RogueGuy

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    Default Re: Samurai vs Soulknife: The Ultimate Showdown

    Quote Originally Posted by The Viscount View Post
    I nabbed tumble as a class skill by trading ride via Skilled City Dweller. It's an ACF, which might be crossing the "variant rule" parameter?
    I don't necessarily have a problem with that. Are ACFs considered a variant rule? I feel like Samurais not having tumble considering what tumble is used for in D&D (moving around in combat) is pretty dumb anyway.

  16. - Top - End - #76
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    Devil

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    Default Re: Samurai vs Soulknife: The Ultimate Showdown

    Quote Originally Posted by Hackulator View Post
    I don't necessarily have a problem with that. Are ACFs considered a variant rule? I feel like Samurais not having tumble considering what tumble is used for in D&D (moving around in combat) is pretty dumb anyway.
    In most conversations I've been a part of, "variant rule" tends to mostly revolve around the wonky stuff listed in unearthed arcana that alters the way the whole game plays (spell point/recharge magic, Item familiars, bloodlines, etc.) ACFs and Racial subs tend to treated as a different subset of rules than "variant"

  17. - Top - End - #77
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    WhiteWizardGirl

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    Default Re: Samurai vs Soulknife: The Ultimate Showdown

    Update for Sammy the Samurai; I had the wrong version of Warning, and so I've replaced Eager.

    Spoiler: Sammy the Samurai
    Show

    Level 20 Samurai

    Dragonborn, Lesser Cansin

    Lawful Neutral

    HP: 225

    Movement: Land 30', Flight 30' (average maneuverability)

    STR: 27 (+8)
    DEX: 18 (+4)
    CON: 22 (+6)
    INT: 16 (+3)
    WIS: 14 (+2)
    CHA: 34 (+12)

    Initiative: +15

    BAB: 20/15/10/5

    Melee: 28/23/18/13

    AC: 20

    FORT: +23
    REF: +15
    WILL: +9 (+29 with Moment of the Perfect Mind)

    Skills:
    Intimidate: +38 (23 Ranks)
    Concentration: +29 (23 Ranks)

    Flaws:
    Fussy: -4 to poison on Fort Saves, can't drink potions or becomes naueseated
    Love of Nature: DC 12 Will save VS attacking Animals, Vermin, and Plants

    Racial Abilities:
    Flight

    Spoiler: Feats
    Show

    Martial Stance: Moment of the Perfect Mind
    Power Attack
    Skill Focus: Intimidate
    Improved Bull Rush
    Imperious Command
    Improved Initative (Bonus Feat)
    Shock Trooper
    Shape Soulmeld (Crystal Helm) [+2 to WILL VS Charm/Complusion, when bound, all attack gain FORCE descriptor]
    Open Least Chakra (Crown, +1 to WILL)
    Split Chakra


    Spoiler: Class Features
    Show

    Daisho Profciency
    Two Swords as One (Improved, Greater)
    Kiai Smite 4/day
    Iajjutsu Master
    Staredown (Improved)
    Bonus Feat: Improved Initiative
    Mass Staredown
    Frightful Presence


    Spoiler: Gear
    Show

    Cloak of Resistance (25,000 GP)
    Manual of Gainful Exercise (137,500)
    Tome of Leadership and Influence (137,500)
    Cowl of Warding (200,800)
    Belt of Magnificence +6 (200,000)
    +2 Fearsome Death Ward Mithral Chainmail (7,250)
    +1 Warning Initiative Greatsword (38,350, +7 init)
    4,850 GP left

    Last edited by ColorBlindNinja; 2017-07-20 at 02:41 PM.

  18. - Top - End - #78
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    Default Re: Samurai vs Soulknife: The Ultimate Showdown

    Yeah, acfs aren't variant rules, that means like spell points and fractional BA and stuff.

    ColorBlindNinja, your flaws are both from dandwiki and are homebrew. Do you want to replace them with legal flaws from the srd?
    I've got a new fantasy TTRPG about running your own fencing school in a 3 musketeers pastiche setting. Book coming soon.

    Check out my NEW sci-fi TTRPG about first contact. Cool alien races, murderous AIs, and more. New expansion featuring rules for ships! New book here NOW!

    Quote Originally Posted by weckar View Post
    Venger, can you be my full-time memory aid please?
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  19. - Top - End - #79
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    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: Samurai vs Soulknife: The Ultimate Showdown

    Quote Originally Posted by Venger View Post
    Yeah, acfs aren't variant rules, that means like spell points and fractional BA and stuff.

    ColorBlindNinja, your flaws are both from dandwiki and are homebrew. Do you want to replace them with legal flaws from the srd?
    Not Dandwiki. Fussy is from Dragon Magazine 328 and Love of nature from Dragon Magazine 324

  20. - Top - End - #80
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    Default Re: Samurai vs Soulknife: The Ultimate Showdown

    Quote Originally Posted by flappeercraft View Post
    Not Dandwiki. Fussy is from Dragon Magazine 328 and Love of nature from Dragon Magazine 324
    Okay, the point is they're unbalanced third party content. While hackulator never said dragon magazine's not allowed, of course it isn't. It's never allowed.
    I've got a new fantasy TTRPG about running your own fencing school in a 3 musketeers pastiche setting. Book coming soon.

    Check out my NEW sci-fi TTRPG about first contact. Cool alien races, murderous AIs, and more. New expansion featuring rules for ships! New book here NOW!

    Quote Originally Posted by weckar View Post
    Venger, can you be my full-time memory aid please?
    Iron Chef Medals!
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  21. - Top - End - #81
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    WhiteWizardGirl

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    Default Re: Samurai vs Soulknife: The Ultimate Showdown

    Quote Originally Posted by Venger View Post
    Okay, the point is they're unbalanced third party content. While hackulator never said dragon magazine's not allowed, of course it isn't. It's never allowed.
    Last I checked, Dragon Magazine is 1st party. It was officially endorsed by WotC, wasn't it?

    Edit: I asked if Dragon Magazine was allowed, and I don't believe I got a response (that I remember anyway).
    Last edited by ColorBlindNinja; 2017-07-20 at 03:58 PM.

  22. - Top - End - #82
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    Default Re: Samurai vs Soulknife: The Ultimate Showdown

    Quote Originally Posted by ColorBlindNinja View Post
    Last I checked, Dragon Magazine is 1st party. It was officially endorsed by WotC, wasn't it?

    Edit: I asked if Dragon Magazine was allowed, and I don't believe I got a response (that I remember anyway).
    Dragon magazine is third party. It always has been third party. No, you didn't miss a response.
    I've got a new fantasy TTRPG about running your own fencing school in a 3 musketeers pastiche setting. Book coming soon.

    Check out my NEW sci-fi TTRPG about first contact. Cool alien races, murderous AIs, and more. New expansion featuring rules for ships! New book here NOW!

    Quote Originally Posted by weckar View Post
    Venger, can you be my full-time memory aid please?
    Iron Chef Medals!
    Amazing Princess Mononoke avatar by Dispozition

  23. - Top - End - #83
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    The Viscount's Avatar

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    Default Re: Samurai vs Soulknife: The Ultimate Showdown

    I would like to formally request no prebuffing before the fight. Neither of us has any buffs from class features, so it would all just be item use.
    Kolyarut Avatar by Potatocubed.
    Quote Originally Posted by willpell View Post
    Only playing Tier 1s is like only eating in five-star restaurants [...] sometimes I just want a cheeseburger and some frogurt. Why limit yourself?
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  24. - Top - End - #84
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    WhiteWizardGirl

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    Default Re: Samurai vs Soulknife: The Ultimate Showdown

    Quote Originally Posted by Venger View Post
    Dragon magazine is third party. It always has been third party. No, you didn't miss a response.
    Then why does it have a logo on the front cover saying that it's 100% official material? (Or at least, issue #330 does).

    Quote Originally Posted by The Viscount View Post
    I would like to formally request no prebuffing before the fight. Neither of us has any buffs from class features, so it would all just be item use.
    That's fine, the only thing I have that would count as a buff is my Force Helm Soulmeld, and it lasts until I choose to unshape it.

    Edit: Or until it gets dispelled.
    Last edited by ColorBlindNinja; 2017-07-20 at 04:09 PM.

  25. - Top - End - #85
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    The Viscount's Avatar

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    Default Re: Samurai vs Soulknife: The Ultimate Showdown

    That's completely acceptable, just like a soulknife choosing weapon properties, that was done levels ago. My concern is using magic items immediately before the fight.
    Kolyarut Avatar by Potatocubed.
    Quote Originally Posted by willpell View Post
    Only playing Tier 1s is like only eating in five-star restaurants [...] sometimes I just want a cheeseburger and some frogurt. Why limit yourself?
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  26. - Top - End - #86
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    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: Samurai vs Soulknife: The Ultimate Showdown

    Can I use horn of plenty then or should I just get something else?

  27. - Top - End - #87
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    WhiteWizardGirl

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    Default Re: Samurai vs Soulknife: The Ultimate Showdown

    Quote Originally Posted by flappeercraft View Post
    Can I use horn of plenty then or should I just get something else?
    Heroes' Feast lasts for hours, so that wouldn't be buffing directly before the fight. I wouldn't have a problem with it, at least.

  28. - Top - End - #88
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    The Viscount's Avatar

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    Default Re: Samurai vs Soulknife: The Ultimate Showdown

    I would request that you not. While the horn of plenty is something that has a long duration, it also requires an uninterrupted hour in order to prepare, which I would say goes against the the Test of Spite style arena fight that we have going.
    Kolyarut Avatar by Potatocubed.
    Quote Originally Posted by willpell View Post
    Only playing Tier 1s is like only eating in five-star restaurants [...] sometimes I just want a cheeseburger and some frogurt. Why limit yourself?
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  29. - Top - End - #89
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    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: Samurai vs Soulknife: The Ultimate Showdown

    Then I'll see where else to get immunity to fear from. Any ideas? Basically on 12,000 GP budget

    Edit: Unless cost reducers are allowed. Are they?
    Last edited by flappeercraft; 2017-07-20 at 06:01 PM.

  30. - Top - End - #90
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    WhiteWizardGirl

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    Default Re: Samurai vs Soulknife: The Ultimate Showdown

    Quote Originally Posted by flappeercraft View Post
    Then I'll see where else to get immunity to fear from. Any ideas? Basically on 12,000 GP budget

    Edit: Unless cost reducers are allowed. Are they?
    All fear is mind-effecting, do you have Mind Blank?

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