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    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Teleport object shenanigans?

    Out of curiosity could I say teleport a boulder above my target and let them be squished? Or perhaps a handful of alchemist fires tied together and watch my target burn to death?

    Any thoughts/opinions and or other shenanigans?

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    Default Re: Teleport object shenanigans?

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    Default Re: Teleport object shenanigans?

    I believe most teleport abilities cannot teleport something to a space that cannot support it. It is why you cannot show up 10 miles in the air after a teleport despite that space being well within the zone for a missed teleport.

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    Ettin in the Playground
     
    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: Teleport object shenanigans?

    From the RC:
    A creature or object brought into being or transported to your location by a conjuration spell canít appear inside another creature or object, nor can it appear floating in an empty space. It must arrive in an open location on a surface capable of supporting it. The creature or object must appear within the spellís range, but it doesnít have to remain within the range.
    So, short answer is "no."

    Long answer is "as long as it isn't a conjuration spell doing it."

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    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Teleport object shenanigans?

    Quote Originally Posted by Deophaun View Post
    From the RC:


    So, short answer is "no."

    Long answer is "as long as it isn't a conjuration spell doing it."
    Dagnabit, wish I would of known that...

    But thanx for the heads up.

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    Default Re: Teleport object shenanigans?

    Quote Originally Posted by wizrdskills View Post
    Out of curiosity could I say teleport a boulder above my target and let them be squished? Or perhaps a handful of alchemist fires tied together and watch my target burn to death?

    Any thoughts/opinions and or other shenanigans?
    You could do this, however you are spending a 7th level spell to a compartively paltry effect. A boulder would do maximum 20d6 damage, however it would have a measly DC15 reflex save to completely negate the damage.

    For a 7th level wizard spell, even in core, you could: Offer a will save to completely remove an opponent from a fight (plane shift), Escape death with your entire party (greater teleport), offer a will save vs rendering all humanoid enemies within 30ft of each other helpless (mass hold person), Blind a single target for anywhere between 2 rounds and permanently based on their hp no save (power word blind), Trap all enemies within a 20ft cube in a prison of force for hours per level no save (forcecage), Cast an partially real version of practically any conjuration spell at a whim (shadow conjuration greater), Cause all enemies within a 60ft cone to become exahusted, giving them -6 strength and dex, and moving at half speed, no save (waves of exhaustion), Outright kill someone (finger of death) Hold enemies in mid air with no save, given there is nothing nearby for them to grab ahold of (reverse gravity), and of course, limited wish.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deophaun View Post
    From the RC:


    So, short answer is "no."

    Long answer is "as long as it isn't a conjuration spell doing it."
    Quote Originally Posted by Fouredged Sword View Post
    I believe most teleport abilities cannot teleport something to a space that cannot support it. It is why you cannot show up 10 miles in the air after a teleport despite that space being well within the zone for a missed teleport.
    This rule doesn't actually apply to teleport object, or really most teleportation spells in general, since they are neither bringing something into being, nor calling it to you (mostly, exceptions exist of course, like instant summons and other such spells).
    Last edited by Crake; 2017-07-15 at 09:39 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kazyan View Post
    Playing a wizard the way GitP says wizards should be played requires the equivalent time and effort investment of a university minor. Do you really want to go down this rabbit hole, or are you comfortable with just throwing a souped-up Orb of Fire at the thing?
    Quote Originally Posted by atemu1234 View Post
    Humans are rarely truly irrational, just wrong.

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    Ettin in the Playground
     
    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: Teleport object shenanigans?

    Quote Originally Posted by Crake View Post
    This rule doesn't actually apply to teleport object, or really most teleportation spells in general, since they are neither bringing something into being, nor calling it to you (mostly, exceptions exist of course, like instant summons and other such spells).
    It's not "calling it to you," or even "bringing it to you," but "to your location." That's broader. And the fact that it says "must appear within the spell's range," and not "must be in your square" infers that an overly narrow reading of "location" is not called for.

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    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Teleport object shenanigans?

    Quote Originally Posted by Crake View Post
    You could do this, however you are spending a 7th level spell to a compartively paltry effect. A boulder would do maximum 20d6 damage, however it would have a measly DC15 reflex save to completely negate the damage.

    For a 7th level wizard spell, even in core, you could: Offer a will save to completely remove an opponent from a fight (plane shift), Escape death with your entire party (greater teleport), offer a will save vs rendering all humanoid enemies within 30ft of each other helpless (mass hold person), Blind a single target for anywhere between 2 rounds and permanently based on their hp no save (power word blind), Trap all enemies within a 20ft cube in a prison of force for hours per level no save (forcecage), Cast an partially real version of practically any conjuration spell at a whim (shadow conjuration greater), Cause all enemies within a 60ft cone to become exahusted, giving them -6 strength and dex, and moving at half speed, no save (waves of exhaustion), Outright kill someone (finger of death) Hold enemies in mid air with no save, given there is nothing nearby for them to grab ahold of (reverse gravity), and of course, limited wish.

    This rule doesn't actually apply to teleport object, or really most teleportation spells in general, since they are neither bringing something into being, nor calling it to you (mostly, exceptions exist of course, like instant summons and other such spells).
    Thanks, I was looking for a creative way to use a paltry spell do something cool.

    Now that I've thought about it some more can I for example, arcane thesis teleport object and chain spell say 50 traps of some kind or something else more devious?

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    Default Re: Teleport object shenanigans?

    Quote Originally Posted by Deophaun View Post
    It's not "calling it to you," or even "bringing it to you," but "to your location." That's broader. And the fact that it says "must appear within the spell's range," and not "must be in your square" infers that an overly narrow reading of "location" is not called for.
    I'm not sure if you're advocating for or against, because your statement didn't really have a conclusion. Considering that teleport object's range is touch, are you saying that teleport object can only teleport an object from on location on your body to another, since it needs to arrive in range of the spell? I doubt it, in which case arriving within the spell's range is not an applicable line to this scenario. Likewise, since you can teleport and object across the world if you like, it is clearly not calling the object "to your location", regardless of how broad or narrow your definition of "your location" is, unless you consider the whole universe "your location", and it certainly wouldn't make sense to be able to teleport the object off the ground elsewhere, but not nearby, simply because in one circumstance you're teleporting it to "your location" and the other it's "not your location", the spell should function the same in both circumstances. So since appearing within the spells range is not appliccable, and neither is teleporting it "to your location" that line clearly does not apply to teleport object. I can't really see any faulty logic there, you can DEFINITELY teleport (yourself, others or objects) into the air.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kazyan View Post
    Playing a wizard the way GitP says wizards should be played requires the equivalent time and effort investment of a university minor. Do you really want to go down this rabbit hole, or are you comfortable with just throwing a souped-up Orb of Fire at the thing?
    Quote Originally Posted by atemu1234 View Post
    Humans are rarely truly irrational, just wrong.

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    Default Re: Teleport object shenanigans?

    Quote Originally Posted by Crake View Post
    I'm not sure if you're advocating for or against, because your statement didn't really have a conclusion. Considering that teleport object's range is touch, are you saying that teleport object can only teleport an object from on location on your body to another, since it needs to arrive in range of the spell?
    That would either be a rules dysfunction, or we would need to accept that words like "range," "target," and "effect" aren't actually reserved terms and are used in their basic English meaning. One of the two.

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    Default Re: Teleport object shenanigans?

    Quote Originally Posted by Deophaun View Post
    That would either be a rules dysfunction, or we would need to accept that words like "range," "target," and "effect" aren't actually reserved terms and are used in their basic English meaning. One of the two.
    It's only a rules dysfunction if you insist that all conjuration spells follow that rule, despite it explicitly defining a subset, name spells that create, and spells that bring things to you. Even using the basic english meaning of the words, teleport object does neither of those things, it in fact teleports something away from you, so in neither case is it a rules dysfunction, and in both cases does the rule seem to not apply.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kazyan View Post
    Playing a wizard the way GitP says wizards should be played requires the equivalent time and effort investment of a university minor. Do you really want to go down this rabbit hole, or are you comfortable with just throwing a souped-up Orb of Fire at the thing?
    Quote Originally Posted by atemu1234 View Post
    Humans are rarely truly irrational, just wrong.

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    Ettin in the Playground
     
    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: Teleport object shenanigans?

    Quote Originally Posted by Crake View Post
    It's only a rules dysfunction if you insist that all conjuration spells follow that rule, despite it explicitly defining a subset, name spells that create, and spells that bring things to you. Even using the basic english meaning of the words, teleport object does neither of those things, it in fact teleports something away from you, so in neither case is it a rules dysfunction, and in both cases does the rule seem to not apply.
    Crake, I'm sick of you being wrong all the time. My location is the multiverse. If you're transporting to the multiverse, you are transporting to my location, so you must be on a surface. Are you transporting outside the multiverse? I mean, I guess if you're going to a non-dimensional space, but that just means you arrive at Orcus.

    Really, this isn't hard.

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    Default Re: Teleport object shenanigans?

    Quote Originally Posted by Deophaun View Post
    Crake, I'm sick of you being wrong all the time. My location is the multiverse. If you're transporting to the multiverse, you are transporting to my location, so you must be on a surface. Are you transporting outside the multiverse? I mean, I guess if you're going to a non-dimensional space, but that just means you arrive at Orcus.

    Really, this isn't hard.
    Alrighty bro
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kazyan View Post
    Playing a wizard the way GitP says wizards should be played requires the equivalent time and effort investment of a university minor. Do you really want to go down this rabbit hole, or are you comfortable with just throwing a souped-up Orb of Fire at the thing?
    Quote Originally Posted by atemu1234 View Post
    Humans are rarely truly irrational, just wrong.

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    Default Re: Teleport object shenanigans?

    Quote Originally Posted by Deophaun View Post
    Crake, I'm sick of you being wrong all the time. My location is the multiverse. If you're transporting to the multiverse, you are transporting to my location, so you must be on a surface. Are you transporting outside the multiverse? I mean, I guess if you're going to a non-dimensional space, but that just means you arrive at Orcus.

    Really, this isn't hard.
    I hope this is a joke. 😝

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    Default Re: Teleport object shenanigans?

    Quote Originally Posted by icefractal View Post
    I hope this is a joke. 😝
    Jokes are invalid targets for hope.

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    Default Re: Teleport object shenanigans?

    If your location is the multiverse, can you really say you're transporting an item 'to' it?

    If I say 'I am walking to my house', that implies I'm not actually in my house at the time of speaking.
    If I say 'The cookies were transported to my location', there is once again the implication of the cookies *not* being at my location before.

    By the same logic, 'the boulder is transported to my location' is only a valid statement if it wasn't already at your location, which since you defined that as 'the multiverse' is somewhat difficult.

    Your argument is only valid if you're willing to handle two arbitrary definitions of 'my location'.
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    Default Re: Teleport object shenanigans?

    Quote Originally Posted by Inevitability View Post
    If your location is the multiverse, can you really say you're transporting an item 'to' it?

    If I say 'I am walking to my house', that implies I'm not actually in my house at the time of speaking.
    If I say 'The cookies were transported to my location', there is once again the implication of the cookies *not* being at my location before.

    By the same logic, 'the boulder is transported to my location' is only a valid statement if it wasn't already at your location, which since you defined that as 'the multiverse' is somewhat difficult.

    Your argument is only valid if you're willing to handle two arbitrary definitions of 'my location'.
    I see, and how does your argument account for a cat riding a unicorn?
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    Default Re: Teleport object shenanigans?

    There is a way to do an end run around the whole "supported location" thing. Make the boulder fly.

    Well, really you probably want levitation. Flying and levitating creatures and objects are not dependent to solid ground for support, magic or the air is sufficent to support them. So by the support clause in the conjuration rules they can be teleported mid-air.
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    Default Re: Teleport object shenanigans?

    Quote Originally Posted by Telok View Post
    There is a way to do an end run around the whole "supported location" thing. Make the boulder fly.

    Well, really you probably want levitation. Flying and levitating creatures and objects are not dependent to solid ground for support, magic or the air is sufficent to support them. So by the support clause in the conjuration rules they can be teleported mid-air.
    This is awesome! Thanks this is what i was looking for :)

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