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    d20 Why do barbarians have uncanny dodge?

    Barbarians as a class are all about reckless aggression, having limited armor and their signature ability actively reduces their ability to dodge.

    So why do they get the ability to uncannily dodge attacks they can't see coming and react more quickly to traps?
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    Default Re: Why do barbarians have uncanny dodge?

    Quote Originally Posted by AceOfFools View Post
    Barbarians as a class are all about reckless aggression, having limited armor and their signature ability actively reduces their ability to dodge.

    So why do they get the ability to uncannily dodge attacks they can't see coming and react more quickly to traps?
    Because of their quick feral reflexes
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    Default Re: Why do barbarians have uncanny dodge?

    Because Conan was known for his reflexes and animal cunning.
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    Default Re: Why do barbarians have uncanny dodge?

    Because it makes their charts feel better.
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    Default Re: Why do barbarians have uncanny dodge?

    Just because that Barbarians prefer an offensive combat style (AC penalties) doesn't mean that their senses are dull.
    Imho they have perfect natural combat senses like a wild animal.

    The Barb sees the blow always coming, it's just his pride that doesn't always want to dodge the blow and instead hit harder once it's his turn again to act.
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    Default Re: Why do barbarians have uncanny dodge?

    I believe it's also an port of their OD&D %chance ability to negate a thief's backstab attempt.
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    Default Re: Why do barbarians have uncanny dodge?

    Quote Originally Posted by J-H View Post
    Because Conan was known for his reflexes and animal cunning.
    Coz Barbarians are really the mix of Fighter and Thief Conan was.

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    Default Re: Why do barbarians have uncanny dodge?

    Technically every class was the thief until the thief was written in and basically ruined every other class.

    Damn thief. You ruined everything!

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    Default Re: Why do barbarians have uncanny dodge?

    Of course, they don't really share much else with Conan.
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    Default Re: Why do barbarians have uncanny dodge?

    I have limited familiarity with Conan, does he actually use rage and reckless offense add part of his signature style? I had always heard him described as the quintessential fighter/thief.

    Feral reflexes or hightend senses don't grant animals (or almost any other creatures that have them, e.g. elves) uncanny dodge. A
    human barbarian had objectively worse senses than an elven ranger, but has much better ability to dodge unexpected attacks, traps, and fight against coordinated foes.

    Why?
    I consider myself an author first, a GM second and a player third.

    The three skill-sets are only tangentially related.

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    Default Re: Why do barbarians have uncanny dodge?

    Quote Originally Posted by AceOfFools View Post
    I have limited familiarity with Conan, does he actually use rage and reckless offense add part of his signature style? I had always heard him described as the quintessential fighter/thief.

    Feral reflexes or hightend senses don't grant animals (or almost any other creatures that have them, e.g. elves) uncanny dodge. A
    human barbarian had objectively worse senses than an elven ranger, but has much better ability to dodge unexpected attacks, traps, and fight against coordinated foes.

    Why?
    AFAIKR, Conan was using uncanny dodge in the movie "Conan the destroyer'

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    Default Re: Why do barbarians have uncanny dodge?

    Quote Originally Posted by AceOfFools View Post
    A human barbarian had objectively worse senses than an elven ranger, but has much better ability to dodge unexpected attacks, traps, and fight against coordinated foes.
    I don't have the D&D history to answer your initial question, but for the "elven ranger" analogy, senses are irrelevant because uncanny dodge doesn't use your senses at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mordaedil View Post
    Technically every class was the thief until the thief was written in and basically ruined every other class.

    Damn thief. You ruined everything!
    Yeah, darn that Tolkien! Complete hack I tell you.


    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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    Default Re: Why do barbarians have uncanny dodge?

    Because Fighters have access to heavy armor and bonus feats.

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    Default Re: Why do barbarians have uncanny dodge?

    Quote Originally Posted by AceOfFools View Post
    A
    human barbarian had objectively worse senses than an elven ranger, but has much better ability to dodge unexpected attacks, traps, and fight against coordinated foes.

    Why?
    Because the senses involved and the way they are used differs.

    The elven ranged is trained to "spot forms, structures & colors".

    While the barbarian is trained to react to attacks that he can't see. He might hear them in the last instant and have fast enough combat reflexes to react to it. Or he feels the vibration on the earth or the air-pressure from the charging enemy.

    Both have trained their senses, but in different ways and with different results. And neither of em can copycat the other. Neither one is overall better, they just have different specializations.
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    Default Re: Why do barbarians have uncanny dodge?

    If it made sense, it wouldn't be uncanny.
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    Default Re: Why do barbarians have uncanny dodge?

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    I don't have the D&D history to answer your initial question, but for the "elven ranger" analogy, senses are irrelevant because uncanny dodge doesn't use your senses at all.
    That's actually a good point. Uncanny dodge functions just fine while blind, deaf, and against intangible foes that can't effect the air around them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zanos View Post
    If it made sense, it wouldn't be uncanny.
    Hehehe.
    I consider myself an author first, a GM second and a player third.

    The three skill-sets are only tangentially related.

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    Default Re: Why do barbarians have uncanny dodge?

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    Yeah, darn that Tolkien! Complete hack I tell you.
    Actually, D&D drew more inspiration initially from Conan and the like, and originally didn't have a thief class, it was only introduced as inspirations started borrowing more elements from folklore and eventually Tolkien.

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    Default Re: Why do barbarians have uncanny dodge?

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    I don't have the D&D history to answer your initial question, but for the "elven ranger" analogy, senses are irrelevant because uncanny dodge doesn't use your senses at all.
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    Default Re: Why do barbarians have uncanny dodge?

    If you do want your Elven Ranger to have Uncanny Dodge though, VMC has you covered.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mordaedil View Post
    Actually, D&D drew more inspiration initially from Conan and the like, and originally didn't have a thief class, it was only introduced as inspirations started borrowing more elements from folklore and eventually Tolkien.
    I was referring to Tolkien being among the first, if not the first, to see the need for a "burglar" as a dedicated role in an adventuring party.


    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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    Default Re: Why do barbarians have uncanny dodge?

    The answer is always Conan.

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    Default Re: Why do barbarians have uncanny dodge?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mordaedil View Post
    Actually, D&D drew more inspiration initially from Conan and the like, and originally didn't have a thief class, it was only introduced as inspirations started borrowing more elements from folklore and eventually Tolkien.
    Original D&D, without any supplements (and therefore before the Thief class), had four PC races: Humans (called Men, as in Tolkien), Elves, Dwarves, and Hobbits.

    The paragraph about allowing other PC races used balrogs as the example.

    The monster list included ents and balrogs.

    Tolkien was a major influence from the start.

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    Default Re: Why do barbarians have uncanny dodge?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay R View Post
    Original D&D, without any supplements (and therefore before the Thief class), had four PC races: Humans (called Men, as in Tolkien), Elves, Dwarves, and Hobbits.

    The paragraph about allowing other PC races used balrogs as the example.

    The monster list included ents and balrogs.

    Tolkien was a major influence from the start.
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    Default Re: Why do barbarians have uncanny dodge?

    I see the uncanny dodge ability that barbarians and rogues get as something like an 'always ready for trouble' type thing. Rogues are skulky, sneaky type characters, always on the lookout of getting caught. Barbarians are smashy-meatshieldy type characters who are always on the lookout for the next fight (while a straight-up fighter might be too busy brushing up on his tactical maneuvers).

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    Default Re: Why do barbarians have uncanny dodge?

    Because Conan dodged the venomous spider in the Tower of the Elephant

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