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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Lightbulb Wow! Dr. Strange from the 2016 movie was a Monk OR a Ruby Knight Vindicator!

    Monk!
    This is a low spoiler version of the spiffy Dr. Strange movie compared to a Monk. There are vague and strong similarities between Dr. Strange (and the Sorcerers of his universe) and the Monk's mechanics.

    -Unarmed combat? Check. Flurry of blows? Debatably.

    -Fast movement? My movie-fu thought so.

    -Evasion? Probably not per se.

    -Still Mind? Not noticeable in the film, but perhaps it'll matter more in later films with the Doc.

    -Purity of Body and Wholeness of Body? Healing was a major point of Dr. Strange's plot.

    -Diamond Body? Not noticeable, maybe later.

    -Ki Strike? The movie monks were using magic.

    -Abundant Step? Oh yes, at least in terms of teleportation!

    -Quivering Palm? Sorta when the Doc gets punched into another plane.

    -Timeless Body? The previous Sorcerer Supreme lasted a long time.

    -Tongue of Sun and Moon? Maybe later.

    -Empty Body? Being ethereal is sorta like dimension hopping in the film. Sorta.

    -Perfect Self? Strange and co consulted with at least one extradimensional being and magic in the movieverse may work to make someone otherworldly.

    Ruby Knight Vindicator - More Optimally
    -LG or LN Human Cloistered Cleric of Wee Jas (Planning and Portal Domains, Knowledge Devotion)3/Church Inquisitor3/Crusader1/Ruby Knight Vindicator7/Contemplative3/RKV+3.

    -Wee Jas has a thing with magic and life and death. Having researched Wee Jas, she seemed like an apt fit. Church Inquisitor and the Inquisition Domain just seemed fitting.

    -RKV lets you teleport. Build lets you heal and buff and teleport (with spells and maneuvers).

    Modify this build to suit your needs.

    Enjoy!
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  2. - Top - End - #2
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    RogueGuy

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    Default Re: Wow! Dr. Strange from the 2016 movie was a Monk OR a Ruby Knight Vindicator!

    I definitely agree that Dr. Strange is a gestaly monk/caster. You CAN make a good argument for him being divine, at least in the comics, due to the fact that the base of his powers involve channeling aspects of a trio of magical gods. Not sure I agree 100% on the class choice, but it's interesting.

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    Default Re: Wow! Dr. Strange from the 2016 movie was a Monk OR a Ruby Knight Vindicator!

    Quote Originally Posted by Hackulator View Post
    You CAN make a good argument for him being divine, at least in the comics, due to the fact that the base of his powers involve channeling aspects of a trio of magical gods.
    Also because, unlike arcane casting, precise hand motions are stated to specifically not be important, and the casting seems to come from a very spiritual place.
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    Default Re: Wow! Dr. Strange from the 2016 movie was a Monk OR a Ruby Knight Vindicator!

    Sphere of skill class 5/ convict 5 / incanter 10 here his closest build respected to movies
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    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Wow! Dr. Strange from the 2016 movie was a Monk OR a Ruby Knight Vindicator!

    Being proficient in unarmed combat doesn't make you a Monk. Unarmed Swordsages, or people who've taken Superior Unarmed Strike, or people who can cast greater might wallop can all fight unarmed passably well. Honestly, the similarities sound pretty forced. "He ran quickly, so therefore he has fast movement!" Maybe he has a couple of Monk levels in there somewhere, but overall having abilities like plane shift and teleport is a lot close to a Sorcerer.

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    Default Re: Wow! Dr. Strange from the 2016 movie was a Monk OR a Ruby Knight Vindicator!

    Did someone say enlightened fist?

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    Default Re: Wow! Dr. Strange from the 2016 movie was a Monk OR a Ruby Knight Vindicator!

    Not Spell to Power Erudite? I think most of that can be had by Psionic powers. His INT is pretty clearly through the roof, but his Wisdom is not so much.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Wow! Dr. Strange from the 2016 movie was a Monk OR a Ruby Knight Vindicator!

    Quote Originally Posted by Cosi View Post
    Being proficient in unarmed combat doesn't make you a Monk. Unarmed Swordsages, or people who've taken Superior Unarmed Strike, or people who can cast greater might wallop can all fight unarmed passably well. Honestly, the similarities sound pretty forced. "He ran quickly, so therefore he has fast movement!" Maybe he has a couple of Monk levels in there somewhere, but overall having abilities like plane shift and teleport is a lot close to a Sorcerer.
    Well, it does please me sort of to know that a lot of the wizard's powers in D&D, were kind of lifted from what Dr. Strange did in his comics. Though his newer incarnations also carry a bit back and forth, where D&D inspired some of the things he could do all of a sudden. Though the martial thing seems to basically be why wizards progress their BAB at all.

  9. - Top - End - #9
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    RogueGuy

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    Default Re: Wow! Dr. Strange from the 2016 movie was a Monk OR a Ruby Knight Vindicator!

    Quote Originally Posted by Cosi View Post
    Being proficient in unarmed combat doesn't make you a Monk. Unarmed Swordsages, or people who've taken Superior Unarmed Strike, or people who can cast greater might wallop can all fight unarmed passably well. Honestly, the similarities sound pretty forced. "He ran quickly, so therefore he has fast movement!" Maybe he has a couple of Monk levels in there somewhere, but overall having abilities like plane shift and teleport is a lot close to a Sorcerer.
    He's a skilled martial artist trained in an ancient mystical temple who has the ability to perform acts that are nearly physically impossible, as well as cast spells. This seems pretty clearly to fall into the trope of monk. He may not be a high level monk yet in the movie as it was just his origin story, but in the comics he is shown at various times to to be one of the more skilled martial artists in the entire Marvel Universe.

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    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Wow! Dr. Strange from the 2016 movie was a Monk OR a Ruby Knight Vindicator!

    Quote Originally Posted by Hackulator View Post
    He's a skilled martial artist trained in an ancient mystical temple who has the ability to perform acts that are nearly physically impossible, as well as cast spells. This seems pretty clearly to fall into the trope of monk. He may not be a high level monk yet in the movie as it was just his origin story, but in the comics he is shown at various times to to be one of the more skilled martial artists in the entire Marvel Universe.
    Do you have a different Monk than I do? Because Monks don't cast spells. Like, I might give you Enlightened Fist or something, but Strange is pretty clearly a caster to at least the degree that he's a Monk in the movie.

    If we're expanding this to the comics, focusing on his knowledge of martial arts instead of his abilities in conjuration, teleportation, time travel, or illusion seems like cherry picking. Marvel Wiki mentions his martial arts ability, but it's after a long list of powers, which are enough to make even high level Wizards jealous.

  11. - Top - End - #11
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    Default Re: Wow! Dr. Strange from the 2016 movie was a Monk OR a Ruby Knight Vindicator!

    In PF terms, Strange would be a pretty cool Psychic (Self-Perfection) VMC Monk.

  12. - Top - End - #12
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    RogueGuy

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    Default Re: Wow! Dr. Strange from the 2016 movie was a Monk OR a Ruby Knight Vindicator!

    Quote Originally Posted by Cosi View Post
    Do you have a different Monk than I do? Because Monks don't cast spells. Like, I might give you Enlightened Fist or something, but Strange is pretty clearly a caster to at least the degree that he's a Monk in the movie.

    If we're expanding this to the comics, focusing on his knowledge of martial arts instead of his abilities in conjuration, teleportation, time travel, or illusion seems like cherry picking. Marvel Wiki mentions his martial arts ability, but it's after a long list of powers, which are enough to make even high level Wizards jealous.
    I apologize, that was unclear, the "and cast spells" part at the end was not part of my argument why he should be a monk, I just tacked it on since it is also clearly in his skill set.

    Just like in D&D, being a powerful magic user is way stronger than being a monk, and it is the power set he is more known for, so it makes sense it comes first. Also remember in that Wiki "powers" comes before "abilities" and they put his martial art arts as an ability. I would direct you to the following quote from that section:

    "He has in some cases, been known to occasionally spar with other heroes; in one case, Strange was able to evade a kung fu hand-chop by Mantis (the future mother of the Dreaming Celestial) "only three others have ever done" and who has been able to subdue Thor in sheer physical combat, despite his strength nearly hundreds of times superior to her own."

  13. - Top - End - #13
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    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Wow! Dr. Strange from the 2016 movie was a Monk OR a Ruby Knight Vindicator!

    Quote Originally Posted by Hackulator View Post
    I apologize, that was unclear, the "and cast spells" part at the end was not part of my argument why he should be a monk, I just tacked it on since it is also clearly in his skill set.

    Just like in D&D, being a powerful magic user is way stronger than being a monk, and it is the power set he is more known for, so it makes sense it comes first. Also remember in that Wiki "powers" comes before "abilities" and they put his martial art arts as an ability. I would direct you to the following quote from that section:

    "He has in some cases, been known to occasionally spar with other heroes; in one case, Strange was able to evade a kung fu hand-chop by Mantis (the future mother of the Dreaming Celestial) "only three others have ever done" and who has been able to subdue Thor in sheer physical combat, despite his strength nearly hundreds of times superior to her own."
    Yeah, he has some physical skills. But they aren't anywhere close to as important to his character, or as impressive, as his magical ones. And in D&D terms, they can be represented pretty effectively with magic as well. If you wanted to make Doctor Strange, you would start with a Wizard or Sorcerer. You might add some Monk and/or Enlightened Fist levels, but you also might just rely on e.g. greater might wallop.

  14. - Top - End - #14
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    RogueGuy

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    Default Re: Wow! Dr. Strange from the 2016 movie was a Monk OR a Ruby Knight Vindicator!

    Quote Originally Posted by Cosi View Post
    Yeah, he has some physical skills. But they aren't anywhere close to as important to his character, or as impressive, as his magical ones. And in D&D terms, they can be represented pretty effectively with magic as well. If you wanted to make Doctor Strange, you would start with a Wizard or Sorcerer. You might add some Monk and/or Enlightened Fist levels, but you also might just rely on e.g. greater might wallop.
    That last part is clearly wrong since it's a spell and as stated, he is a deadly martial artist without any magic.

    In response to the bolded part, monk powers aren't anywhere near as impressive as wizard powers, so I don't think that fact is an argument against him having monk levels or a monk gestalt. Remember, WITHOUT MAGIC he has fought people who can beat Thor in a fight and he has come out well.

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    Default Re: Wow! Dr. Strange from the 2016 movie was a Monk OR a Ruby Knight Vindicator!

    Quote Originally Posted by Hackulator View Post
    That last part is clearly wrong since it's a spell and as stated, he is a deadly martial artist without any magic.

    In response to the bolded part, monk powers aren't anywhere near as impressive as wizard powers, so I don't think that fact is an argument against him having monk levels or a monk gestalt. Remember, WITHOUT MAGIC he has fought people who can beat Thor in a fight and he has come out well.
    We are also talking about Thor, a guy who flies around and hits people with a hammer (specifically people who don't immediately die from said hammer), and not Thor, the asgardian deity stat'd out in 3.5 terms. Honestly, the Marvel character isn't all that impressive. He is sorta strong, but 99% of everything about him only happens when wielding Mjolnir. Weapon attacks? Flying? Storm magic? All the hammer, not him.

    Now, on the flip side of things, if you really want to go on and on about the physical training that Dr. Strange goes through in order to be where he is, and then we want to talk about his magic and its potential to be divine, why don't we cut the bull and the middle man both out and go cleric. Cleric is full divine casting, and has about as much physical training that a monk does (because, ya know, medium bab).
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    RogueGuy

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    Default Re: Wow! Dr. Strange from the 2016 movie was a Monk OR a Ruby Knight Vindicator!

    Quote Originally Posted by Buufreak View Post
    We are also talking about Thor, a guy who flies around and hits people with a hammer (specifically people who don't immediately die from said hammer), and not Thor, the asgardian deity stat'd out in 3.5 terms. Honestly, the Marvel character isn't all that impressive. He is sorta strong, but 99% of everything about him only happens when wielding Mjolnir. Weapon attacks? Flying? Storm magic? All the hammer, not him.

    Now, on the flip side of things, if you really want to go on and on about the physical training that Dr. Strange goes through in order to be where he is, and then we want to talk about his magic and its potential to be divine, why don't we cut the bull and the middle man both out and go cleric. Cleric is full divine casting, and has about as much physical training that a monk does (because, ya know, medium bab).
    I think your understanding of Thor is mistaken. Thor doesn't get all his powers from Mjolnir, in the movie Odin has put the equivalent of a curse on him that ties him to Mjolnir.

    From the marvel wiki entry on Thor:

    "Life-Force: also known as the God-Force. The godly energies that fuel all of Thor's godlike powers. Thor's immortal life-force is more powerful than the mystical properties of Mjolnir"

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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Wow! Dr. Strange from the 2016 movie was a Monk OR a Ruby Knight Vindicator!

    Quote Originally Posted by Buufreak View Post
    We are also talking about Thor, a guy who flies around and hits people with a hammer
    As always, we touch on the problem of translating power levels between non-compatible sources.

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    Default Re: Wow! Dr. Strange from the 2016 movie was a Monk OR a Ruby Knight Vindicator!

    Quote Originally Posted by Florian View Post
    In PF terms, Strange would be a pretty cool Psychic (Self-Perfection) VMC Monk.
    With Vow of Nonviolence probably


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    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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  19. - Top - End - #19
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Wow! Dr. Strange from the 2016 movie was a Monk OR a Ruby Knight Vindicator!

    This was not at all what I expected to find as replies to this thread, but thanks!

    I agree that D&D and Dr. Strange built on each other. I suspect D&D's rules authors were fans of Dr. Strange and Dr. Strange's authors were fans of D&D.
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    And I do agree that the right answer to the magic/mundane problem is to make everyone badass.
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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Wow! Dr. Strange from the 2016 movie was a Monk OR a Ruby Knight Vindicator!

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    With Vow of Nonviolence probably
    Hm ....

    Letīs say Human (Cheliax) Skilled ART (Heal, Spellcraft, K: The Planes), Occultist 2/Psychic (Psychic Duelist) 10+ VMC Monk.

    Feats could go towards the Psychic Maestro chain, as well as Spell Focus (Div, Ench, Evo, Necro), Divination Guie, Divinerīs Delving.

    Phrenic towards Phrenic Strike and Undercast?

  21. - Top - End - #21
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    Default Re: Wow! Dr. Strange from the 2016 movie was a Monk OR a Ruby Knight Vindicator!

    But whenever Dr. Strange gets into hand-to-hand combat, he spends the whole fight getting his butt kicked until some outside force intervenes.

    ...which I guess pegs him as a Monk, yeah.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Wow! Dr. Strange from the 2016 movie was a Monk OR a Ruby Knight Vindicator!

    Or a wizard who thinks tenser's transformation makes him a god in martial arts.

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