Number of Character Appearances VI - Wrecan: "I like counting things"

[TheWombatOfDoom]

Good find, I went with the start date of the second thread, so I kinda shot myself (and others) in the foot.

Anyhow, because of that I find I can now pinpoint dates and found the places were Freya got name dropped:
Here she is named for the first time. I am unsure what she was listed at before that (probably not). Also no reason given.
And here she is counted in start of darkness.. Again no reason given. Also no discussion about her (but there is discussion about Tyr).
Here is the third mention of Freya. Which also means the current count of 1+1 can't be right.

Not sure how you guys wanna count it then. Most neutral would be to put Freya and Sif at 1 and add an unnamed blonde Norse goddess at 1+1. Ignoring both #73 and #274 because 1 appearance without a name.

Otherwise, I would say Freya at 2, and Sif at 3+1.

So you've gathered evidence and concluded why the count is what it is for Blonde Northern Goddess, at 3 +1

What is Freya's second appearance, aside from the 1141 with her holding Odin's hand?

[hamishspence]

What is Freya's second appearance, aside from the 1141 with her holding Odin's hand?

That's not Freya:

Updated through 1141
Dark One, Demeter, Dragon, Durkon (+1), Frigg, Goddess of Western Pantheon, Loki, Marduk, Minrah (+1), Odin, Ox, Poseidon, Rabbit, Thor (+1), Zeus

[Gift Jeraff]

That's Frigg holding Odin's hand, not Freya. Freya's only conclusive appearance is speaking through her high priestess in #999.

[hamishspence]

Freya's only conclusive appearance is speaking through her high priestess in #999.

Yup. "Brunette green-wearing northern fertility goddess" may be her (IMO it's more likely to be her than to be any other northern deity) - but it's never been confirmed outright.

[Flame of Anor]

So you've gathered evidence and concluded why the count is what it is for Blonde Northern Goddess, at 3 +1

What is Freya's second appearance, aside from the 1141 with her holding Odin's hand?

Freya's two appearances would be pregnant by Thor in 501 and voting from offscreen in 999. I think Thor's calling the character in 501 a "fertility goddess" is very good evidence that she is Freya.

[TheWombatOfDoom]

These F names are getting me confused.

Okay, so we have:

Freya - 2, if we add the brunette fertility goddess in 501, which I think is kinda confirmed by the description of her in 999 through her priestess.

Sif - 3 +1, if we add 73, 274, 999 (through her priestess) and SoD 37. Honestly, either going with Golden Haired Northern Goddess or Sif amounts to the same thing - if proven otherwise we can change it, but Sif's description in the Mythology matches up well enough.

[hamishspence]

Sif - 3 +1, if we add 73, 274, 999 (through her priestess) and SoD 37.

Don't forget that 73 is an Imagine Spot. That goddess may be no more "real" than Hinjoker,

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0562.html

or the 3 undead versions of Roy.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0474.html

[knag]

Not sure how you guys wanna count it then. Most neutral would be to put Freya and Sif at 1 and add an unnamed blonde Norse goddess at 1+1. Ignoring both #73 and #274 because 1 appearance without a name.

Otherwise, I would say Freya at 2, and Sif at 3+1.

I second Freya at 2 and Sif at 3+1. (501 and 999 for Freya, 73, 274, and 999 for Sif, +1 for SoD). However, I admit that this is based on inference, and a ruling that strictly required her to be named would be as you say, except we'd have to add a "Northern Goddess 1+1" who appears in 274 and SoD. 73 would get no mention. But I definitely prefer connecting 73 with 274, SoD and Sif in 999.

There are plenty of other "named" characters who have not been named in the comics, like batman, wolverine, and for that matter, I don't think any of the Eastern Pantheon have been explicitly named, we just guessed their Greek mythology counterpart names based on the depictions, which is all I'm trying to do with Sif.

On a related note, on that same page of SoD (37), there is an appearance of Ishtar, which is, I assume, where she gets her +1. That goddess, similarly, has never been identified in-comic as "Ishtar", and in fact, this thread keeps a double accounting for that image. In the bonus section, there is an appearance listed for "Sarpanit", presumably based on this post by Porthos. But Ishtar isn't in his list, so he clearly is identifying the crowned goddess as Sarpanit, and this thread has her listed as such, but also as a +1 for Ishtar.

[hamishspence]

I don't think any of the Eastern Pantheon have been explicitly named, we just guessed their Greek mythology counterpart names based on the depictions

Zeus "dying last, wondering what happened" according to Shojo, does support the idea that the guy saying "Why?" is Zeus:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0274.html

The grey, blue-bearded god is also addressed outright as Hades:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0273.html

[knag]

Zeus "dying last, wondering what happened" according to Shojo, does support the idea that the guy saying "Why?" is Zeus:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0274.html

The grey, blue-bearded god is also addressed outright as Hades:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0273.html

My mistake. They're all named in 273 or 274, except for Pan, whom we do list. My point is there is precedent for including "named" characters who are never named in the comic, but whose identity is clear from context.

[hamishspence]

. My point is there is precedent for including "named" characters who are never named in the comic, but whose identity is clear from context.

Yup. I would support naming all the crayon "plait-haired, golden-haired, green-dressed goddess" appearances as Sif, leaving 73 as "imagined golden-haired goddess".

[b_jonas]

I can't contribute much here, but thank you and good work, all of you, for all that work about figuring out the identity of gods. If you choose a generic description rather than the name of the god, then I recommend mentioning “Northern” (or “Eastern” etc as appropriate) in the description, because which pantheon they are from is at least generally clear from the colored aura in the depiction, and from the most recent strip #1141 we also know why the aura color of gods is consistent.

[Flame of Anor]

Should we list a Notable Alteration of Banjo as Doctor Banjo?

[martianmister]

Updated through 1142
Dark One (as illusion), Durkon, Minrah, Thor

[knag]

Should we list a Notable Alteration of Banjo as Doctor Banjo?

We did note Banjo as Banjulhu, although that was a magical alteration, whereas Dr. Banjo seems to be a costume change, which we do not note. Honestly I could go either way.

Spoiler: Pier Pressure & How the Paladin Got His Scar

Show

On a separate note, it was noted in another thread that "Sapphire Guardswoman with Short to Medium Hair" (9 appearances in HtPGHS, behind and to the left of O-Chul during the duel), is quite similar to Yu's "Boss" in Pier Pressure. The only difference is grey streaks in her hair, which might be accounted for by the time difference between the stories. Any thoughts on whether we give her another appearance for PP?

[Flame of Anor]

Alright, so in 1143 we definitely have Thor, Durkon, Minrah, Loki, Dark One, Rat, and Tiamat.

Then there are the three other Northern gods. I don't think we've seen them before, but the one missing a hand has got to be Tyr. Any guesses on the two goddesses?

[martianmister]

Updated through 1143
Dark One (as illusion), Durkon, Loki (as illusion), Minrah, Rat (as illusion), Skadi (as illusion), Sunna (as illusion), Thor (as illusion), Tiamat (as illusion), Tyr (as illusion)

[martianmister]

Alright, so in 1143 we definitely have Thor, Durkon, Minrah, Loki, Dark One, Rat, and Tiamat.

Then there are the three other Northern gods. I don't think we've seen them before, but the one missing a hand has got to be Tyr. Any guesses on the two goddesses?

Judging by their designs, looks like Tyr, Skadi and Sunna. Freya problem is still continuing.

[TheWombatOfDoom]

Alright, so in 1143 we definitely have Thor, Durkon, Minrah, Loki, Dark One, Rat, and Tiamat.

Then there are the three other Northern gods. I don't think we've seen them before, but the one missing a hand has got to be Tyr. Any guesses on the two goddesses?

Thinking Skadi for the tattoo'd female goddess based on the appearance of her representative in the moot, which would leave the other to be Sunna, since we've already cast Sif and Freya.

[Yanisa]

Thinking Skadi for the tattoo'd female goddess based on the appearance of her representative in the moot.

Similarly compare the first goddess to the representative of Sunna in the moot, same color scheme, seems an easy match for Sunna, so I third that one.

[b_jonas]

Alright, so in 1143 we definitely have Thor, Durkon, Minrah, Loki, Dark One, Rat, and Tiamat.

Then there are the three other Northern gods. I don't think we've seen them before, but the one missing a hand has got to be Tyr. Any guesses on the two goddesses?

The #1143 strip discussion thread has some relevant comments, mentioning Skadi and Sunna. I can't directly help here, but read these.

Yes! More gods!

Tiamat looks gorgeous, and I recognize Tyr (who I now think is evil) and Skadi but I'm not sure about the leftmost one (Freya?). Anyways they all look good.

Also something is up with Skadi's speech balloon, it looks like she's saying "unt^!" instead of "until".

Maybe it's Sunna, Goddess of the Sun, whose priest wears similar orange and yellow colours?

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0999.html

Leftmost, relative to us. I identified Skadi from the face tatoos.

Yup - my guess is that the orange-wearing goddess is Sunna. Until I spotted the tattoo on Skadi's priest, I thought the rightmost goddess was Frigg - but I spotted it, and amended the post.

[Chronos]

Given that the Stickworld pantheons are clearly based (at least to an extent) on real-world mythology, and given the precedent of naming comic-book characters when we see them, I favor making a best-guess assignment for any deity we see, with the understanding that if we're mistaken, we might need to go back and fix it. This is especially appropriate, I think, for the Northern Pantheon, given that we have a definitive list of names for them (thus avoiding issues with one deity with multiple names).

[Flame of Anor]

Given that the Stickworld pantheons are clearly based (at least to an extent) on real-world mythology, and given the precedent of naming comic-book characters when we see them, I favor making a best-guess assignment for any deity we see, with the understanding that if we're mistaken, we might need to go back and fix it. This is especially appropriate, I think, for the Northern Pantheon, given that we have a definitive list of names for them (thus avoiding issues with one deity with multiple names).

Agreed, with the caveat that we should retain records of why we've made a certain identification. Imagine it's eight months from now and we're all wondering "Why did we think that guy was Freyr again?" We'll be very glad to be able to check whether it was just a guess or someone did their homework, so we can tell how much weight to give that identification.

[martianmister]

So, there is six goddesses in the Northern Pantheon.

Hel
Frigg
Skadi
Sunna
Freya
Sif

And there is three unidentified goddesses:

073
274
501

If we count 073 as Durkon's imagination, then only two goddesses remain: Freya and Sif, and two unidentified goddesses of 274 and 501. Both the goddess of 274 and the High Priestess of Freya has blonde hair and green dress, which, if we go with similarities between gods and their high priests, imply that 274 is Freya. Which leaves 501's identity to Sif.

[Fyraltari]

So, there is six goddesses in the Northern Pantheon.

Hel
Frigg
Skadi
Sunna
Freya
Sif

And there is three unidentified goddesses:

073
274
501

If we count 073 as Durkon's imagination, then only two goddesses remain: Freya and Sif, and two unidentified goddesses of 274 and 501. Both the goddess of 274 and the High Priestess of Freya has blond hair and green dress, which, if we go with similarities between gods and their high priests, imply that 274 is Freya. Which leaves 501's identity to Sif.

Sif's only two defining characteristics (in Norse Mythology, at least, maybe marvel gave her actual character, you never know) are her golden hair and her marriage to Thor.

I'd say the one from 073 is Sif, the one from 274 is Freya and the one from 501 is a demi-goddess who did not bother sending a representative to the Godsmoot.

[martianmister]

* High Priestess of Sif's design is similar to Sif from Marvel comics. In Marvel comics Sif is not blonde and Freya is blonde. We already know that this comic's version of Thor is based on Marvel comics.

* Sif is Thor's wife, which means Thor married someone he impregnated, just like Kazumi and Daigo.

* That would explain Thor's reaction to pregnancy. He don't know that she's a fertility goddess because he knows that Freya is the fertility goddess. What he don't know that Sif too is kind of a fertility goddess, as the goddess of earth.

[Gift Jeraff]

I agree on #274 being Freya and #501 being Sif. I think it stands to reason that the Northern Goddess of Earth could be a fertility goddess without being the Northern Goddess of Fertility. Though I suspect if she physically showed up again she'd be redesigned to have more of a stone motif rather than "fertile soil." I also have a feeling that the goddess from #73 was intended to be Sif as well, but since the line is "woo goddesses" she could easily be dismissed as Generic Anygoddess.

[knag]

I disagree that #274 is Freya. Freya in #999 identifies herself as the goddess of Fertility, and the goddess is #501 is identified as a goddess of fertility. I think this is the strongest identifier of who that goddess is. In my opinion, #501 can be no other than Freya. For #274, we don't have much to work with. #73 could be Sif due to her association with Thor. My personal opinion based on the similarity of dress is that #73 and #274 are the same goddess.

It should also be noted that there are two additional female demi-goddesses who have not been depicted: Iounn, and Sigrun. The goddesses could be either of these as well.

I'd just like to add that there is no implication that Thor married the goddess in 501, just that he impregnated her outside of marriage.

Also, many of the high priests have different hair or skin color when compared with their patron deities.

[Flame of Anor]

I disagree that #274 is Freya. Freya in #999 identifies herself as the goddess of Fertility, and the goddess is #501 is identified as a goddess of fertility. I think this is the strongest identifier of who that goddess is. In my opinion, #501 can be no other than Freya.

This exactly. When we have so little to go on, it would be folly to throw away our strongest clue, the "fertility goddess" link.

[Chronos]

1144:

Durkon Thundershield, Minrah, Thor

I don't think the bugbear or any of the Thor-worshipers are repeats.