Finding a resurrection loophole

[Caelestion]

And even if yes - that action may belong to a petitioner (which have a completely separate body)

Indeed, yes. Raise dead specifically notes that a creature's soul must be willing to return, so trying to come up with funky reasons how a dead body can drop its own immunity to something is a total non-starter. Again, just ask your GM about how he will resolve the issue and avoid all these patently transparent ways to subvert the disadvantages of a powerful prestige class.

[Gullintanni]

Are dead creatures able to take standard actions?


Why?
Reincarnate:

SRD:

"A creature that has been turned into an undead creature or killed by a death effect can’t be returned to life by this spell. Constructs, elementals, outsiders, and undead creatures can’t be reincarnated. The spell cannot bring back a creature who has died of old age."

That's why. ><

[Gildedragon]

SRD:

"A creature that has been turned into an undead creature or killed by a death effect can’t be returned to life by this spell. Constructs, elementals, outsiders, and undead creatures can’t be reincarnated. The spell cannot bring back a creature who has died of old age."

That's why. ><

They never lose the Living Construct subtype tho; as such they ought still be valid targets

[zergling.exe]

They never lose the Living Construct subtype tho; as such they ought still be valid targets

Living Construct doesn't make them a valid target for reincarnate in the first place, only raise dead, resurrection, and true resurrection.

[Gullintanni]

They never lose the Living Construct subtype tho; as such they ought still be valid targets

It's possible. But specific trumps general and reincarnate explicitly says it doesn't effect constructs. Living constructs are a subset of constructs.

[Anxe]

I'd allow a variant of the Clone spell to work on a juggernaut. The mage builds you a fresh body and your soul transfers to it when you die. Sounds similar to what fredg was suggesting.

EDIT: If you want what fredg mentioned, its called the Circlet of Preservation and is in the Eberron Campaign Setting book.
Wish or Miracle should also still work to bring a juggernaut back to life, but that would require some deep pockets and/or powerful friends.

[Mordaedil]

Wouldn't a warforged simply need to be repaired to positive hit points and then have it's on button pushed?

[Vaern]

It's possible. But specific trumps general and reincarnate explicitly says it doesn't effect constructs. Living constructs are a subset of constructs.

Raise Dead and Resurrection also say they don't affect constructs, and in fact the description for the construct type states that they can not be raised or resurrected because they were never alive to begin with. However, the description for the living construct subtype explicitly states that they are in fact alive and can be raised and resurrected.

Wouldn't a warforged simply need to be repaired to positive hit points and then have it's on button pushed?

It's not quite as simple as that for them. They're living constructs, which means that they actually have a soul. Even if the body was repaired, the soul would still need to be returned to the body.

True Resurrection might actually work. True Res doesn't require a part of the target's body to work, so if healing immunity is assumed to be a physical aspect of the character which remains active after death then you can ignore the immunity simply by not targeting a piece of the body. If the healing immunity is assumed to be an aspect of the soul, then it will still have the ability to willingly lower its defenses to accept the spell.

[Caelestion]

However, the description for the living construct subtype explicitly states that they are in fact alive and can be raised and resurrected.

But since it says nothing about reincarnation, it would not be kosher to extrapolate from there that that also works.

Personally, I could see true resurrection entirely recreating a destroyed juggernaut's body and drawing back whatever soul warforged have to its broken shell, but then it would still have to be repaired from -10 up to positive hp again.

[ShurikVch]

But since it says nothing about reincarnation, it would not be kosher to extrapolate from there that that also works.

Personally, I could see true resurrection entirely recreating a destroyed juggernaut's body and drawing back whatever soul warforged have to its broken shell, but then it would still have to be repaired from -10 up to positive hp again.

Oh, come on!

You're rejecting one thing "because it isn't allowed explicitly", but completely OK with another thing - which absolutely certainly doesn't work. Where's the logic there?

True Resurrection is still of (healing) subschool

Reincarnate was written during the time when there wasn't such thing as "dead construct" ("normal" Constructs are destroyed at 0 hp, not killed - it's different things), so "Constructs ... can't be reincarnated" is just a reminder of pre-existing rule; Living Constructs, on the other hand, are actually may be dead - thus, logically, reincarnated (and if not - then there's no hope - because, hey, it's not like this is the first "Game Over" option in the RAW)

[Caelestion]

I said, "I could see", as in it's a vaguely plausible argument for a 9th-level spell (and frankly, it's miles more plausible than the shenanigans about a dead body specifically dropping its own immunity to something). My comment was more in line with throwing a bone than actively supporting that idea as RAW.

As for reincarnation, D&D is all about 'specific overruling general', so if there isn't a specific rule saying otherwise, it's not RAW. It might suck, but there you are.

[ShurikVch]

I said, "I could see", as in it's a vaguely plausible argument for a 9th-level spell

Unfortunately, rules are the same for 0th-level and 9th-level spells (specific exceptions aside)
For example, I don't suggested reviving by the Wish - that poster child of Wizard's "UNLIMITED POWAH" - because it revives by duplicating resurrection (thus, healing subschool again)

(and frankly, it's miles more plausible than the shenanigans about a dead body specifically dropping its own immunity to something).

True!

As for reincarnation, D&D is all about 'specific overruling general', so if there isn't a specific rule saying otherwise, it's not RAW. It might suck, but there you are.

If creature type is the biggest problem there, it can be corrected with a quick cast of Greater Humanoid Essence (or even Aberrate)

[Caelestion]

If creature type is the biggest problem there, it can be corrected with a quick cast of Greater Humanoid Essence (or even Aberrate)

That only lasts one round per level, but its target is just "a construct" and doesn't bother to specify that the construct must be alive, so as part of your regular balanced spell diet, that might actually work.

[Gullintanni]

That only lasts one round per level, but its target is just "a construct" and doesn't bother to specify that the construct must be alive, so as part of your regular balanced spell diet, that might actually work.

Though, if you can remove construct type temporarily, Resurrection will work just as well as Reincarnate with no need for Polymorph cheese to get back into a warforged body.

I do believe that would work though. Mission accomplished?

[Gildedragon]

Though, if you can remove construct type temporarily, Resurrection will work just as well as Reincarnate with no need for Polymorph cheese to get back into a warforged body.

I do believe that would work though. Mission accomplished?

Humanoid Essence line of spells on the remains would probably also work

Not to be salty but that what are some chips without some: just a sheets of dried starchy thing

Note that Humanoid Essence, Lesser would suffice (as it makes the construct vulnerable to Healing subschool effects. Greater would only be needed in case that the warforged needs a reincarnation... though the class's benefits get all wonky after that

[Vaern]

I'm not sure if humanoid essence would actually work in this case. It seems like the ability to gain the full benefit of healing spells would be useful for a normal warforged, who would otherwise only receive half of the effect.
But in the juggernaut's case, it's sketchy. A normal construct isn't "immune" to healing - it is simply not a valid target. Humanoid Essence changes that and makes them valid targets, but as far as resistance goes, I don't think would actually remove the juggernaut's immunity quality, nor would it necessarily allow you to bypass the spell immunity of golems.

[JNAProductions]

Would a Dweomerkeepers Supernatural Spell help here?

[Mordaedil]

It's not quite as simple as that for them. They're living constructs, which means that they actually have a soul. Even if the body was repaired, the soul would still need to be returned to the body.

It just seems to me like people complicate it further than it actually needs to be. What says their soul even leaves their body when they are "struck dead"? They might be living constructs, but their core is still operational, unless that is destroyed.

At which point I find it hard to argue bringing them back to be possible outside of a miracle.

[Fouredged Sword]

What are the odds you can just supernatural POA body into a living version of itself?

[Anxe]

What are the odds you can just supernatural POA body into a living version of itself?

Interesting...

It wouldn't have any plating because PaO can't copy valuable metals.
"This spell cannot create material of great intrinsic value, such as copper, silver, gems, silk, gold, platinum, mithral, or adamantine."
You could always get that replaced though. And there's an interpretation to be made that if the metals are already present in the existing form they would still be present in the new one.

Another interpretation is that PaO would create a "new" warforged instead of bringing back the old one.

As a DM, you want there to be some sort of "tax" for death and for the choice to become a juggernaut. PaO gets around that in a way, but it shouldn't be free. Otherwise it makes sense to use PaO when you're bringing fleshy PCs back to life too. This could come in the form of taking a level as resurrect normally does and removing the plating as above. And the addition problem of your PC only being alive until they get hit by a dispel magic.