Villainous Competition XX​II: I Am The Night!

[Hackulator]

Did you miss the part where I told you that you can't add RHD after you add class levels? That was important.

Are you saying I can't have both at the same time or simply talking about the order in which I add them? If the latter, the order doesn't matter to me, I am simply considering the finished product, I will add them in whatever order is allowed, the order in which you add them should not affect CR. If the former, the guy in charge disagrees.

[Tiri]

Are you saying I can't have both at the same time or simply talking about the order in which I add them? If the latter, the order doesn't matter to me, I am simply considering the finished product, I will add them in whatever order is allowed, the order in which you add them should not affect CR. If the former, the guy in charge disagrees.

I see. I thought you wanted to add them after. Everything is fine.

[khadgar567]

Are you saying I can't have both at the same time or simply talking about the order in which I add them? If the latter, the order doesn't matter to me, I am simply considering the finished product, I will add them in whatever order is allowed, the order in which you add them should not affect CR. If the former, the guy in charge disagrees.

she says hit dice increase first then the class you want.

[Tiri]

she says hit dice increase first then the class you want.

You know, Khadgar, you seem to have this thing where you randomly assume people are female.

Not that I mind, but I'd like to know why you do that.

[khadgar567]

You know, Khadgar, you seem to have this thing where you randomly assume people are female.

Not that I mind, but I'd like to know why you do that.

sorry tiri in my mind name sounds like female every time? my bad.

[Tiri]

sorry tiri in my mind name sounds like female every time? my bad.

I don't really mind. I was just curious.

[Hackulator]

I don't really mind. I was just curious.

Maybe he just uses random pronouns, why should the male one be the default?

[Tiri]

Maybe he just uses random pronouns, why should the male one be the default?

I would think the default pronoun on the Internet is 'they', unless someone has an avatar that suggests a specific gender.

[Jormengand]

Inevitability, the table code is broken by an errant t in a [/td] tag at level 15. Could you fix it in the OP, please?

[Florian]

I would think the default pronoun on the Internet is 'they', unless someone has an avatar that suggests a specific gender.

Funny. I´m using the mobile skin for this forum and that doesn´t show custom avatars, the gender signs or location entries, and "they" is the rudest form to address someone in my native language.
(Come to think on it, I´m actually quite irritated that the mobile skin still parses pictures, especially the whole spam some people put in their footer)

@Topic:

How important is it to create a full 20 CR build? What I have in mind has a very low "sweet spot", so I´d end up with the same situation to "pad out" with more RHD.

[The Viscount]

It's necessary that your build be CR 20. Even if it has a low sweet spot, you still advance up to CR 20. You can use acquired templates or whatever you like to fill the gap.

Ninjas are always fun. Might have something for this.

[Buufreak]

On the topic of rhd and cr, I calculate it like this: let's say a certain type advances 1 cr for every 3 rhd. By adding any value from 1 to 3, cr increases by 1. By adding any value from 4 to 6, cr increases by 2, etc.

To me, it is the easiest way to make sure all things are accounted for, nothing seemingly added on without cost, and most importantly, isn't bait for score damage.

[zergling.exe]

Seriously, though, I am not a certain other person back from wherever banned members go. I just thought his name was interesting, and I didn't have to look far for avatar material once I decided to use that.

Hate to break it to you, but Yklikt wasn't banned. Why would you assume that?

[daremetoidareyo]

Funny. I´m using the mobile skin for this forum and that doesn´t show custom avatars, the gender signs or location entries, and "they" is the rudest form to address someone in my native language.
(Come to think on it, I´m actually quite irritated that the mobile skin still parses pictures, especially the whole spam some people put in their footer)

@Topic:

How important is it to create a full 20 CR build? What I have in mind has a very low "sweet spot", so I´d end up with the same situation to "pad out" with more RHD.

If you don't mind me asking, what is your native language so I can be smarter about things from a global perspective around some of my more gender advocatey friends?

A low sweet spot is awesome. I think alot of these comps skew towards high level play, which mucks up the drag and drop nature of the villains for DMs who mine this competition for villains to use. Finish your 20 CR though, Judges will pillory you. Look for some acquired templates to plop on and then justify them with backstory.

[ben-zayb]

Just remember, you can't advance a creature with RHD after the first class level. A fair number of builds have been penalised for that in the past.

This is also how I did RHD advancement + class levels for my entries and the admittedly few games that I ran.

[AvatarVecna]

Hate to break it to you, but Yklikt wasn't banned. Why would you assume that?

They're talking about Ywvbevlin, a person who was banned from the forum a while back. At the time, they were suspected of sock-puppeting Novolin, because Novolin joining the forum and immediately jumping in to judge VC came immediately after Ywvbevlin was informed that they could not be both a judge and participant because derrrrrrr, along with some seemingly significant similarities in their writing style (including a striking similarity in their judgement format that no other judges shared, and the same misspelling of one of the categories to be judged). Since Ywvbevlin was banned and Novolin was not, I kinda assumed at the time that the mods had looked into it and determined that Novolin and Ywvbevlin weren't the same person on multiple accounts as best they could figure.

Of course, the interesting thing to me about their account being "inspired" by Ywvbevlin's as they've stated is that Ywvbevlin, to my knowledge, was never accused of being a troll - that was Novolin and Yklikt, not Ywvbevlin. No, ol' Ywv' was accused of (if anything) being too incompetent a judge for their judgement to be counted, even by the usually-low standards of internet elf-game competitions, and even that was less an accusation of Ywvbevlin (which implies a particular person being accusatory) as much as a group consensus that her judgement and response to arguments/criticism was far less thorough, knowledgeable, and professional that was desired for even a competition with so little at stake.

[Deadline]

Did you miss the part where I told you that you can't add RHD after you add class levels? That was important.

Was there a rule or contest ruling that forbids this that I missed? I do know that I'd ding it as a judge without a solid reason (i.e. there are some monsters that have special rules for gaining RHD).

Also, in regards to adding RHD and increasing CR. When I judge, I go with the more strict option. If you have 4 RHB and are adding some RHD that increase CR by 1 for every 4, then I read that as increasing the CR as soon as you add that first additional RHD. So no, you couldn't add 3 RHD with no CR increase.

[Thurbane]

I am so down for this!

...after a year or so in the chair, really looking forward to getting an entry in!

---

Inevitability, the table code is broken by an errant t in a [/td] tag at level 15. Could you fix it in the OP, please?

I fixed that in the last comp, but as it's currently locked, I'm guessing it couldn't be copied.

[ben-zayb]

I'm fairly certain there are forums (fora?) where the subculture deems it acceptable, funny, or even awesome, for banned members to blatantly waltz back in. I don't think this place belongs to that kind of forum.

[Tiri]

Was there a rule or contest ruling that forbids this that I missed? I do know that I'd ding it as a judge without a solid reason (i.e. there are some monsters that have special rules for gaining RHD).

The relevant rules quote is below.

Note that if a creature acquires a character class, it improves according to its class, not its type.

[Deadline]

The relevant rules quote is below.

Do you happen to know what section that is in?

[Inevitability]

People, I have a bad feeling about the whole Ywv/Ywvbevlin debate, and would like to see it ended.

Even if they are the same person, that would make Ywv's only crime returning under a different name, which is mod business and not competition business.

I am so down for this!

...after a year or so in the chair, really looking forward to getting an entry in!

Happy to hear that; you just enjoy yourself. You deserved it.

Inevitability, the table code is broken by an errant t in a [/td] tag at level 15. Could you fix it in the OP, please?

I will. Thank you for pointing it out.

[Florian]

Do you happen to know what section that is in?

MM, Chapter 4, Improving Monsters, Monsters and Class Levels, as well as Increasing Hit Dice subsection.

It´s a bit oddly phrased, as it concerns how to handle it when having both, RHD and Class HD.

If you don't mind me asking, what is your native language so I can be smarter about things from a global perspective around some of my more gender advocatey friends?

A low sweet spot is awesome. I think alot of these comps skew towards high level play, which mucks up the drag and drop nature of the villains for DMs who mine this competition for villains to use. Finish your 20 CR though, Judges will pillory you. Look for some acquired templates to plop on and then justify them with backstory.

Edit: OT.

[khadgar567]

Spoiler: out of topic stuff

Show

MM, Chapter 4, Improving Monsters, Monsters and Class Levels, as well as Increasing Hit Dice subsection.

It´s a bit oddly phrased, as it concerns how to handle it when having both, RHD and Class HD.




High german as well as the bavarian subset of it. You might have noticed that I tend to use a lot more capital letters that is usual with the english language and I have a bit of a hard time with apostrophes.
That´s because those carry a lot of context in the german language, like announcing when I use a word in the formal, non-gendered "high german" sense, despite what that word is used for in "low german". Taking Jormengard as an example, it wouldn't´t matter whether I wrote "... despite what He said..." or "... despite what She said...", the usage of the capital letter always announces that this word is to be understood as a formal reference to the person, devoid of any gender implications. The bavarian dialect is heavily influenced by french and italian, so my third option is "... despite what`S said...", which will have a similar result. Usage of "they" is reserved when talking about things and animals as it´s a non-gendered in "low german" that clearly shows not being respectful by avoiding to use the "high german" formality rules.

sorry Florian but i got a starfinder Iseph flash back so can we get this in to another treat before inevitability smites all of us due rail roading the threat

[PrismCat21]

Note that if a creature acquires a character class, it improves according to its class, not its type.

Here's a thought.
If your type changes after adding class levels, would that effectively reset the advancement order?
Example: You're a Monstrous Humanoid, take 5 levels in Cleric, and become an Outsider. Could you then advance as an Outsider?

I don't believe it does, or even should, work that way. I've never thought about it before or have seen it discussed, so I'm curious. :)

[Tiri]

sorry Florian but i got a starfinder Iseph flash back so can we get this in to another treat before inevitability smites all of us due rail roading the treat

I feel like I should tell you again that the word is 'thread', not 'treat'.

[Hackulator]

Here's a thought.
If your type changes after adding class levels, would that effectively reset the advancement order?
Example: You're a Monstrous Humanoid, take 5 levels in Cleric, and become an Outsider. Could you then advance as an Outsider?

I don't believe it does, or even should, work that way. I've never thought about it before or have seen it discussed, so I'm curious. :)

There's no reason or rule that suggests it would work that way.

Please note however that the rule about not advancing HD after gaining class levels is clearly wrong, at least in the case of dragons, as dragons can take class levels and still gain more racial HD after by advancing in age.

[Tiri]

Here's a thought.
If your type changes after adding class levels, would that effectively reset the advancement order?
Example: You're a Monstrous Humanoid, take 5 levels in Cleric, and become an Outsider. Could you then advance as an Outsider?

I don't believe it does, or even should, work that way. I've never thought about it before or have seen it discussed, so I'm curious. :)

I've never seen any explicit rules on this one way or another, but seeing as this would result in the creature having the augmented subtype and thus retains the features (RHD size, skill points, etc.) of it's original type, I would say its advancement by RHD stays the same as the 'quality' is still roughly the same.

There's no reason or rule that suggests it would work that way.

Please note however that the rule about not advancing HD after gaining class levels is clearly wrong, at least in the case of dragons, as dragons can take class levels and still gain more racial HD after by advancing in age.

Dragons are a special case, as they advance by age categories, which just happen to add RHD, not by the RHD themselves.

[PrismCat21]

There's no reason or rule that suggests it would work that way.

Please note however that the rule about not advancing HD after gaining class levels is clearly wrong, at least in the case of dragons, as dragons can take class levels and still gain more racial HD after by advancing in age.

Which is a specific case for Dragons.
A general rule will not fit every situation. Exceptions exist, like for Dragons.

It's perfectly reasonable to assume another exception 'could' exist for my example. As I said, I don't believe iylt should, but it might. I've not come across a discussion of it before.

[Florian]

There's no reason or rule that suggests it would work that way.

Please note however that the rule about not advancing HD after gaining class levels is clearly wrong, at least in the case of dragons, as dragons can take class levels and still gain more racial HD after by advancing in age.

The rule is commonly misunderstood and misinterpreted as a result.

It originates from the odd way that Zero-HD races are handled. A, say, Aasimar can only ever advance by using class levels, even while being an Outsider. Same with a Human acquiring the Lich or Vampire template. It is a Zero-HD race and could´t acquire undead RHD.