Questionable Content 11: It's Like Seeing a Unicorn

[halfeye]

Forgive my language but what the hell are you saying? Anyone is capable of violating consent. Man, woman, big, small, or anything inbetween. The only thing thtlat makes one likely to is their own lack of morals. This loline of thinking you are putting forth is sickening.

Sickening is a good word for it.

I am saying strong people without morals have more opportunities than weak people without morals.

I'm not so far saying anything more than that.

[Beelzebub1111]

Then why bring it up in the first place when the guy has been nothing but kind. If we're talking weak morals you can build a larger case for Renee than Elliot

[halfeye]

Then why bring it up in the first place when the guy has been nothing but kind. If we're talking weak morals you can build a larger case for Renee than Elliot

Yeah, totally. Elliot pushed by Renee though? There are all sorts of bad places that might go.

[georgie_leech]

Sickening is a good word for it.

I am saying strong people without morals have more opportunities than weak people without morals.

I'm not so far saying anything more than that.

I think you'll find "He's strong so he could be a rapist more easily than someone who was weak to be a rather weak position. By that logic, Roy could be a rapist, or Hinjo, or hell, Durkon is wandering around in Platemail all the time, he must be strong as well. See why that's way too much of a stretch?

EDIT:

Yeah, totally. Elliot pushed by Renee though? There are all sorts of bad places that might go.

You really see him as such a doormat that he could be pressured into being a rapist? You realise this is a guy who works as a bouncer, yes?

[Lethologica]

If he forces himself upon an unwilling participant, that would have nothing to do with consent? Brun probably couldn't do that if she wanted to.

No relationship works without full consent, and the coercive capacity of strength has nothing to do with that, only with the avenues by which a (pseudo-)relationship may be pursued without consent. And avenues are certainly available to Brun--I'm not even convinced that she couldn't employ the same means, where the scrawny Clinton is concerned.

We have no reason to believe Elliott, or anyone in the comic, would pursue those avenues. Frankly, I find it disturbing that this is the first thing you think to comment on when the prospect of Elliott getting involved with Clinton appears in the comic. Nothing in the comic itself points in that direction.

[Keltest]

You really see him as such a doormat that he could be pressured into being a rapist? You realise this is a guy who works as a bouncer, yes?

I think its certainly possible that Renee could and would push them into doing things that neither side is comfortable doing but also doesn't want to admit to being uncomfortable doing to the other party. Elliot is freaking huge, it isn't at all out of the question that somebody would go along with him to avoid getting him mad at them, even if we the audience know that is unlikely to occur.

[Kato]

The hell kind of discussion did I start, people?
I think it's better we don't delve further into the subject.

Instead.. Elliott blushing is pretty cute.

[Max_Killjoy]

The slow progress of the online comic strip format seems to so often lead people to react vigorously to what they think is going to happen, instead of what actually has happened -- or even what actually ends up happening.

[Mith]

The hell kind of discussion did I start, people?
I think it's better we don't delve further into the subject.

Instead.. Elliott blushing is pretty cute.

Personally, I feel that this is more "Elliot thinks Clinton is handsome, and cutely blushes when teased about it due to being the softest of soft boys" than "Start up the threeway".

Although Elliot could carry both Brun and Clinton on his shoulders with no problem.

[JBPuffin]

Personally, I feel that this is more "Elliot thinks Clinton is handsome, and cutely blushes when teased about it due to being the softest of soft boys" than "Start up the threeway".

Although Elliot could carry both Brun and Clinton on his shoulders with no problem.

To be fair, if there's a gotta-have-them-all sexuality mentality thing happening (might be, might not), it's not impossible. Whether or not Clinton would be down for that's another story, same for Brun, and then whether or not this is actually a reveal and not messing with shipping dynamics...Dang it, Jeph, we have too much speculation time and too many options! I need closure!

[John Cribati]

I seem to have just witnessed this thread move from "Renee is the worst conceivable person ever because [REDACTED]" to "Elliot is big and imposing and might rape Clinton and/or Brun." Am I hallucinating or...

[Shadow of the Sun]

Well, ignoring the bollocks discussion that's happened recently...

...'kay, Renee? I'm glad you've got that option?

[Max_Killjoy]

And just 24 hours later in real time, a moment later in comic time, she says she's not going to meddle.

Sheesh.

The amount of worked-up outrage that a single update can generate... even in the middle of a scene... I guess we really do live in an "outrage culture" now. Ugh.

[Fawkes]

It took one page for this thread to become a trainwreck.

God damn it. I figured Renee would be a...what's the word...fujoshi? Yeah, one of my top three least favorite kinds of people on the planet.

See, I'm used to people finding the worst possible interpretation of Renée's actions or thoughts, but I'm morbidly curious as to which orifice that one came from.

I have no idea what either of you are talking about.

Yeah, with Elliot being this muscular a relationship only works if it's fully consensual. That only seems to work if Elliot is <erm I have no words that I know for sure won't be offensive> and even then, consent is not optional. If Brun is really, really into it, maybe a threesome can work, but it doesn't seem that likely, and Renee outing someone for a mis-fire would be really bad, maybe she dies in a fire after it fails?

You can say bisexual, it's okay.

Also, what are you talking about

I seem to have just witnessed this thread move from "Renee is the worst conceivable person ever because [REDACTED]" to "Elliot is big and imposing and might rape Clinton and/or Brun." Am I hallucinating or...

Elliot came out as bisexual. Immediately we had a gay panic concern that he might rape Clinton. This thread is a trash fire.

[John Cribati]

"Fujoshi" is the Japanese word for "yaoi fangirl." The implication being that upon learning that Elliott was bi, Renée immediately stopped seeing him as her big buff soft coworker and friend, and instead a piece of meat to take part in her vaguely homophobic sexual fantasies.

[Wraith]

Elliot came out as bisexual. Immediately we had a gay panic concern that he might rape Clinton. This thread is a trash fire.

Seconded. The radical swerve from "bisexual" to "rapist" is one hell of an unfortunate and rather scary assumption to make.

The implication being that upon learning that Elliott was bi, Renée immediately stopped seeing him as her big buff soft coworker and friend, and instead a piece of meat to take part in her vaguely homophobic sexual fantasies.

Homophilic, rather than -phobic, perhaps? Yaoi would be a weird thing to fantasize about, if one were homophobic.

[The Extinguisher]

Nah its still homophobic. its taking someone's sexuality and reducing it down to something for their own sexual gratification. Its the same kind of thing that gets #lesbian tags blocked as nsfw cause straight guys flood them with porn. It doesn't quite fit with how we lump it in as a "phobia" but thats the word we use for some reason to describe the systemic oppression of queer people.


Anyway I hope this does play out towards a polyamorous relationship, they're vastly underrepresented in media especially a kind like this. Its also the absolute top tier resolution of a love triangle situation (followed by "the two people being fought over realized its too much hassle and date each other" and "everyone agrees that it never could work out and they all date or dont date different people whatever makes them happy")

[Max_Killjoy]

Nah its still homophobic. its taking someone's sexuality and reducing it down to something for their own sexual gratification. Its the same kind of thing that gets #lesbian tags blocked as nsfw cause straight guys flood them with porn. It doesn't quite fit with how we lump it in as a "phobia" but thats the word we use for some reason to describe the systemic oppression of queer people.

It doesn't make sense on several levels.

Regardless of anything else, it's not a term that really fits in this case.

Say what you will about Renee's possible fantasies (and I think even those were speculation on the part of those eager to hate her, I don't recall it coming up in the comic enough to stand out)... but slapping "homophobic" on them sounds more like trying to tar-and-feather people with terminology, than a functional use of the word, or functional description of those types of fantasies.

[The Extinguisher]

It doesn't make sense on several levels.

Regardless of anything else, it's not a term that really fits in this case.

I mean it does, I literally just described how it does. Yeah sure, if we want to play "technically correct semantics wars" homophobia is just a fear of gay people but thats not how the term gets used. For better or for worse thats the word we use when we're talking about injustice and systemic oppression of gay people. And that type of situation is very much an injustice and part of the systemic oppression of gay people. It enforces heterosexuality onto gay people by making wlw about men and mlm about women.

You're free to use another word to describe it (orientationism? sounds bad) but homophobia is a word that gets used that way

[halfeye]

You can say bisexual, it's okay.

Also, what are you talking about

I was thinking of writing "passive" or maybe "bottom" are those okay too?

Elliot came out as bisexual. Immediately we had a gay panic concern that he might rape Clinton. This thread is a trash fire.

I think I was somewhat missunderstood, but I probably did mis-write too.

[Max_Killjoy]

I mean it does, I literally just described how it does. Yeah sure, if we want to play "technically correct semantics wars" homophobia is just a fear of gay people but thats not how the term gets used. For better or for worse thats the word we use when we're talking about injustice and systemic oppression of gay people. And that type of situation is very much an injustice and part of the systemic oppression of gay people. It enforces heterosexuality onto gay people by making wlw about men and mlm about women.

You're free to use another word to describe it (orientationism? sounds bad) but homophobia is a word that gets used that way

I don't even agree with your basic premise that a kinda silly sexual kink is a tool of "oppression", let alone "systemic".


... are we even supposed to be having this conversation here? It seems like this whole thing went out of bounds at least a page back.

[John Cribati]

It's one thing to keep the ins and outs of your fetish between you and you Internet Service Provider. It's another to apply it to, living, breathing people. "Fujoshi" implies the latter.

[Max_Killjoy]

It's one thing to keep the ins and outs of your fetish between you and you Internet Service Provider. It's another to apply it to, living, breathing people. "Fujoshi" implies the latter.

As that actually what's happened with Renee, or are people jumping to conclusions? Am I forgetting some sign of this sort of thing from her, other than "squeeing with delight" at the thought of two people being attracted to each other? ( A reaction never expressed by any straight person about any two other straight people, ever, in history, right? )

[John Cribati]

As that actually what's happened with Renee, or are people jumping to conclusions? Am I forgetting some sign of this sort of thing from her, other than "squeeing with delight" at the thought of two people being attracted to each other? ( A reaction never expressed by any straight person about any two other straight people, ever, in history, right? )

We seem to have begun talking past each other at some point. Beelzebub1111 was the one who interpreted Renée's excitement over her friend's crush as fujoshi-ism, and I retorted that I think that's a far stretch, though not truly unexpected since a lot of people seem to interpret Renée's actions as harshly as possible because [REDACTED]. And then it was Fawkes who had no idea what a fujoshi was in the first place, so I explained the basic concept.

And then there was some discussion of what is or isn't homophobia.

[AuthorGirl]

I don't know about the rest of you, but my somewhat ambivalent opinion of Renee is slanting toward bemused liking thanks to the latest comic.

[Max_Killjoy]

We seem to have begun talking past each other at some point. Beelzebub1111 was the one who interpreted Renée's excitement over her friend's crush as fujoshi-ism, and I retorted that I think that's a far stretch, though not truly unexpected since a lot of people seem to interpret Renée's actions as harshly as possible because [REDACTED]. And then it was Fawkes who had no idea what a fujoshi was in the first place, so I explained the basic concept.

And then there was some discussion of what is or isn't homophobia.

Sorry if I was unclear, I wasn't asking those questions as a rhetorical device -- I really don't get where other people are getting this thing about Renee from, or how it's "orientationally discriminatory"

[John Cribati]

The part about Renee was just the continuation of certain folks in the thread not liking her to the point where they interpret hee every action to be as grossly immoral as possible, as opposed to her set baseline of "mildly jerkish" to "harshly bull-headed."
As for the other, It'll be better if I just PM you.

[Shadow of the Sun]

There's a good tumblr post about why gay men find the fujoshi thing to be problematic.

The fact that we jumped from "Elliot is bisexual" right to "non-consensual sex" is pretty f@#$ed up, and somewhat ties into the above. Especially since no-one brought it up when we were told Elliot has a crush on Brun, since all of the same arguments about Elliot's size etc still apply...

And with that, I respectfully ask we go back to talking about the comic.

[Fawkes]

wait hold up

I was thinking of writing "passive" or maybe "bottom" are those okay too?

So that means:

Yeah, with Elliot being this muscular a relationship only works if it's fully consensual. That only seems to work if Elliot is [the bottom] and even then, consent is not optional.

THIS JUST RAISES FURTHER QUESTIONS

So because Elliot is muscular, he's only allowed to be the bottom in same-sex relationships?

What?

(also this can't be stated enough, consent is never optional, and when you specifiy that it's optional in one specific instance you're kind of implying there are other instances where its not)

[John Cribati]

Winslow no longer wants to be an iPad. If he ends up in a humanoid body, what are the chances Pintsize does as well?

Also would Pintsize have to change his name of that were the case?