Questionable Content 11: It's Like Seeing a Unicorn

[Shadow of the Sun]

No one thinks that except for the strawmen you have built up in your head and painted blue

I am not referring to the people using the term privilege when I say there's the implication there, I'm referring to the people who feel a moral judgement on them when they're told they have privilege.

I'm not strawmanning, and the accusation that I am is not helping your point.

[The Extinguisher]

I am not referring to the people using the term privilege when I say there's the implication there, I'm referring to the people who feel a moral judgement on them when they're told they have privilege.

I'm not strawmanning, and the accusation that I am is not helping your point.

Yes I understood that. Hence why I said that was a strawman. There isn't a sustained group of people that views having privilege as a moral shortcoming. Those people don't exist. The conception of tumblr as a monolithic "social justice gone mad" community where the more privileged you are the worse you are is a complete construction by people who do not want to let go of what systemic oppression has given them.

I understand that Tumblr has a bad rep on other parts of the internet, and it may not be a strawman that you've constructed (that was a little hostile on my part, im just frustrated by the constant implication), but its certainly a construction.

Hostile much? We're trying to show how privilege is not in fact some dirty word that is supposed to make people feel bad, and you're getting upset about that being a strawman?

Eh, I probably shouldn't have quoted the whole post. My issue wasn't with "privilege doesn't mean you're a bad person" but with the "these people say that privilege makes you a bad person"

[georgie_leech]

Yes I understood that. Hence why I said that was a strawman. There isn't a sustained group of people that views having privilege as a moral shortcoming. Those people don't exist. The conception of tumblr as a monolithic "social justice gone mad" community where the more privileged you are the worse you are is a complete construction by people who do not want to let go of what systemic oppression has given them.

I understand that Tumblr has a bad rep on other parts of the internet, and it may not be a strawman that you've constructed (that was a little hostile on my part, im just frustrated by the constant implication), but its certainly a construction.



Eh, I probably shouldn't have quoted the whole post. My issue wasn't with "privilege doesn't mean you're a bad person" but with the "these people say that privilege makes you a bad person"

I say this as someone that is frustrated by the misrepresentation of what privilege is and why it's important to acknowledge that some are more fortunate than others: There are absolutely sections of the internet and Tumblr that act like being cis or white or male or otherwise privileged is bad. They are not even close to a majority, our even a sizable minority, but regrettably they can be rather loud and vocal about their opinions.

[Shadow of the Sun]

Which, again, was not my implication at all. My mentioning of the tumblr echo chamber was referring to the fact that by and large, tumblr uses terms from the field of sociology, psychology, and history in way that is very lacking in nuance because the majority of people on there aren't sociologists, psychologists, and historians. If you are using tumblr as your main source of concepts like "privilege", they are necessarily going to be skewed because the people on there by and large are not getting the terms in the context of the disciplines that they are from.

The way in which tumblr has used the term privilege does not necessarily imply that someone who has privilege is bad person, but it does cause a lot of people who are told that they have privilege feel like they are being accused of being a bad person, again because tumblr tends to lack nuance when it comes to concepts like this.

[Traab]

Sweet sassy molassy, we go from big men being possible dangerous rapists to arguing over privilege. Im wondering when this thread will get a massive edit fest taken to it as things are getting (well have been the whole time really) very heated.

[The Extinguisher]

Which, again, was not my implication at all. My mentioning of the tumblr echo chamber was referring to the fact that by and large, tumblr uses terms from the field of sociology, psychology, and history in way that is very lacking in nuance because the majority of people on there aren't sociologists, psychologists, and historians. If you are using tumblr as your main source of concepts like "privilege", they are necessarily going to be skewed because the people on there by and large are not getting the terms in the context of the disciplines that they are from.

The way in which tumblr has used the term privilege does not necessarily imply that someone who has privilege is bad person, but it does cause a lot of people who are told that they have privilege feel like they are being accused of being a bad person, again because tumblr tends to lack nuance when it comes to concepts like this.

thats a valid complaint to have, thats undercut by the phrase "tumblr echo chamber."

privilege has moved beyond the world of academics though. It's a common word thats used in everyday laymen situations. I disagree a lot with the pedestal that academia is put on when it comes to social discourse, specifically because of the idea that one shouldn't use a word because it has origins in academia.

I say this as someone that is frustrated by the misrepresentation of what privilege is and why it's important to acknowledge that some are more fortunate than others: There are absolutely sections of the internet and Tumblr that act like being cis or white or male or otherwise privileged is bad. They are not even close to a majority, our even a sizable minority, but regrettably they can be rather loud and vocal about their opinions.

those communities are two things: a) trolls designed to fool you into thinking they have legitimate discourse, or b) marginalized people complaining about their oppressors that gets misinterpreted by their oppressors as oppression. Or sorry, the third group, teenagers who are still learning about social justice, and nine times out of ten fall into group b anyway.

Sweet sassy molassy, we go from big men being possible dangerous rapists to arguing over privilege. Im wondering when this thread will get a massive edit fest taken to it as things are getting (well have been the whole time really) very heated.

I mean, one only needs to glance at what happens to the Oots discussion thread anytime something even vaguely resembling progressive happens to understand it. People get upset when the things they like talk about social issues. Especially when the things they like weren't always socially progressive (see also: David Willis, brought up in this very thread)

[halfeye]

When I think of priveleges, I think of things that prisoners have that can be rightfully taken away at the whim of their jailer, as opposed to things that are supposed to be rights, which their jailers are not supposed to touch.

[eee]

Getting back to the matter at hand, my take on it:

Bubbles appears to be following a Dumbledore type strategy here. Dumbledore allowed harsh, acerbic Snape to teach children because they're run into people like him in real life, and they had to know how to deal. Winslow has lead a quite sheltered existence, so far - Pintsize not withstanding - and now that he is capable of going out into the world on his own he needs the emotional armor and people skills to handle the Mays and worse of the world. And he needs to develop them himself, with some assistance.

As to May, yes, she is a jerk but she's always been, with occasionally flashes of something better. I would not be surprised if, once she calms down, she seeks out Winslow and apologizes. And if she doesn't do it on her own she'll do it as soon as Momo learns about this, reads her the riot act, and offers to send several thousand volts through her CPU in a continuous cycle until she does.

[Shadow of the Sun]

thats a valid complaint to have, thats undercut by the phrase "tumblr echo chamber."

privilege has moved beyond the world of academics though. It's a common word thats used in everyday laymen situations. I disagree a lot with the pedestal that academia is put on when it comes to social discourse, specifically because of the idea that one shouldn't use a word because it has origins in academia.

The use of "tumblr echo chamber" is deliberate. Tumblr has a bunch of excellent features, such as educating people to a degree that was previously unknown about topics of every day importance, like the concept of privilege. However, one of the downsides is that it is very easy to avoid anything contrary to the point of view that you personally take on tumblr, which can lead to polarisation and misapprehensions about a lot of topics, as well as the immediate dismissal of anyone who has contrary opinions as being an idiot or wilfully ignorant.

While academia is put on a pedestal, part of the reason for that is that there is continuous and pointed critique about whatever it is a person is saying; papers are peer reviewed, critiqued, and concepts are negotiated and amended as a response. When I read an academic paper on the concept of privilege, I can look at it and go "okay, this is in the context of the ongoing academic discussion about privilege and has been critiqued and discussed in a way that is conducive for improving the argument". If I had to choose between an academic article in a peer-reviewed journal or a tumblr post with 300,000 notes to explain the concept of privilege to someone, I'd probably go with the paper because it has something to recommend it in terms of a nuanced viewpoint than the tumblr post.

Is this to say that tumblr is bad? No. Tumblr has a bunch of good things, which is that it can be used to put examples of social issues in context - a person's story about how they've experienced or lacked privilege and puts it into personal terms. But it's not where I'd go for my definitions, or to gain a particularly nuanced understanding of a given topic.

[Shogo]

Well, I wouldn't say Tumblr isn't a horrible cesspool. There can be interesting things to be discovered by those brave enough to sift through the crap, but quite a lot of it is awful. Usually the parts inhabited by those obsessed with "privilege."

[Fawkes]

Well, I wouldn't say Tumblr isn't a horrible cesspool. There can be interesting things to be discovered by those brave enough to sift through the crap, but quite a lot of it is awful. Usually the parts inhabited by those obsessed with "privilege."

This thread is a horrible cesspool.

[Rodin]

This thread is a horrible cesspool.

Yeah, I much preferred it when the topic was butts.

...


ButtsButtsButtsButtsButtsButtsButtsButtsButtsButts ButtsButtsButtsButtsButtsButtsButtsButts.

[Shadow of the Sun]

I'll be honest I'd rather be having a discussion about privilege than discussing what's gone on in the latest strip.

Apart from a "f@#$ you, May" sense, at least.

[John Cribati]

In the interest of avoiding arguments with brick walls (and, I suppose having someone else view me as a brick wall)... how lucrative do you reckon moose farming would be?

[Shadow of the Sun]

In the interest of avoiding arguments with brick walls (and, I suppose having someone else view me as a brick wall)... how lucrative do you reckon moose farming would be?

Depends on how well you could sell moose products. Reindeer is semi-domesticated and not exactly "lucrative", but if reindeer or moose milk became touted as the new health food, I wouldn't be surprised if moose farming (there is a moose farm in Russia, oddly enough) could be a decent way to eke out a living.

[Wraith]

I had thoughts about the choice of language used in today's comic. Having read the thread up to date, I think I'll be keeping them to myself, because I ain't touchin' any of this with a pole.

...moose milk...

You sweet, summer child.

... how lucrative do you reckon moose farming would be?

Buying a moose from Norway would cost you around $3500, plus upkeep of 25-30kgs of forage feed per day and additional costs of land ownership/rental, veterinary bills and grooming.... not to mention your own medical bills when it inevitably gored the crap out of you and stomped what was left into a fine paste as, to say the least, they're not particularly friendly creatures. It's a lot of risk for ~3 pints of milk per day, and I'm not sure that I would chance it for such little return with just a helmet.

....On the bright side, the NSA agent looking at my Google search history is going to have an interesting story to talk about today.

[Shadow of the Sun]

You sweet, summer child.

Nah, I'm not naive, I'm just thinking that moose semen would probably be what we classify as a "speciality" good. While you might get people willing to pay you for it (as apparently May has done?) you'd never be able to sell enough of it to make farming economically viable. I can see people actually buying moose milk.

Maybe if you could make moose racing as popular as horse racing is, but I think that you'd have some difficulty there.

[The Extinguisher]

The use of "tumblr echo chamber" is deliberate. Tumblr has a bunch of excellent features, such as educating people to a degree that was previously unknown about topics of every day importance, like the concept of privilege. However, one of the downsides is that it is very easy to avoid anything contrary to the point of view that you personally take on tumblr, which can lead to polarisation and misapprehensions about a lot of topics, as well as the immediate dismissal of anyone who has contrary opinions as being an idiot or wilfully ignorant.

While academia is put on a pedestal, part of the reason for that is that there is continuous and pointed critique about whatever it is a person is saying; papers are peer reviewed, critiqued, and concepts are negotiated and amended as a response. When I read an academic paper on the concept of privilege, I can look at it and go "okay, this is in the context of the ongoing academic discussion about privilege and has been critiqued and discussed in a way that is conducive for improving the argument". If I had to choose between an academic article in a peer-reviewed journal or a tumblr post with 300,000 notes to explain the concept of privilege to someone, I'd probably go with the paper because it has something to recommend it in terms of a nuanced viewpoint than the tumblr post.

Is this to say that tumblr is bad? No. Tumblr has a bunch of good things, which is that it can be used to put examples of social issues in context - a person's story about how they've experienced or lacked privilege and puts it into personal terms. But it's not where I'd go for my definitions, or to gain a particularly nuanced understanding of a given topic.

That's all pretty fair. I do think you're over emphasizing the lack of contrary viewpoints, cause that's not a Tumblr thing, it's an internet thing in general. Social media has a problem with showing you what you want to see, and my personal experience with Tumblr is that it's much better than other platforms for that.

I won't say it doesn't have problems, but Tumblr has done far more to educate me about social issues then anywhere else, mostly due to how the information is accessible.

But I appreciate the legitimate discussion of the platform, rather than simply dismissing it as a cesspool cause you don't want to think about social issues.


Also May is still the best.

[Max_Killjoy]

Every time I start to like May, she does something like this... and "this" has nothing to do with the moose.

Of course she's just being reflective of the current "outcomes uber alles" approach to such things... anyone who makes you feel bad is a bad person, and intent is meaningless... any outcome that doesn't work out "fair" is "biased", even if there was zero intent or design to have it work out that way.

(Intent and outcome both matter... thus "attempted murder" and "involuntary manslaughter" both being potential charges, rather than lumping it all under "murder".)

[John Cribati]

So do you think moose semen is just some kind of delicacy in QC-Verse, or the guy is just weird?

I mean I'm sure it was a non-sequitur joke but understanding the logic behind it is the only logical talking point from this update yessirre it is.

[Keltest]

So do you think moose semen is just some kind of delicacy in QC-Verse, or the guy is just weird?

I mean I'm sure it was a non-sequitur joke but understanding the logic behind it is the only logical talking point from this update yessirre it is.

Jeph's notes at the bottom indicate that it is Barry. I could believe it. I also wish this particular page had just never come about. I hate everything about it.

[Traab]

So do you think moose semen is just some kind of delicacy in QC-Verse, or the guy is just weird?

I mean I'm sure it was a non-sequitur joke but understanding the logic behind it is the only logical talking point from this update yessirre it is.

Meh, it may just be more of may desperately scrambling for cash by any strange means she can come up with. Like if she was human (and a guy) you might read about her donating blood and going to the sperm bank, volunteer for medical tests, etc.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

So do you think moose semen is just some kind of delicacy in QC-Verse, or the guy is just weird?

It could be neither. Obtaining the semen is the first step to artificially inseminate. A friend of mine training to be a vet was taught how to obtain it from bulls, for cow insemination.

If Barry wasn't so obviously a walking joke, I'd guess he's a exotic animal breeder.

GW

[Max_Killjoy]

There's an almost bottomless demand for processing cycles for certain data industries... I wonder if AIs could rent out CPU time.

That's kinda creepy too, actually.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

There's an almost bottomless demand for processing cycles for certain data industries... I wonder if AIs could rent out CPU time.

My headcanon: their neural architecture would need to be too much like a human's too be a reliable source of cycles - literally "what if they start thinking about butterflies, and that changes the neural connections and throws off the calculations?"

GW

[Fawkes]

Okay I didn't have any issues with the Bubbles comic yesterday but I think today we have crossed over into unreasonableness. Privilege is a very real thing, but this is not a good allegory and the mood whiplash is not working for me.

Also just not a huge fan of May in general. She's a two-dimensional character, and those two dimensions are 'I'm an ex-con trying to make it in this unjust world's and 'lol butt fart **** joke'.

[Shogo]

Assumptions are being made about why one would dismiss tumblr, but for the sake of avoiding further arguments . . .

I kind of like May. She's usually amusing to me. I don't even really fault her for being mad at Winslow. Envy is a pretty normal feeling. Anger born from it isn't a big deal. The only issue I'd have is the idea that he wronged her simply because he has someone who is willing to buy things for him.

As for the moose stuff . . . May is thinking small. If she wants to maximize her profits, she should record her harvesting operation. If the internet has taught me anything, it's that there are people into all kinds of things. A robot-girl giving a moose a handy? Just throw it onto the internet fetish pile.

[Fawkes]

I kind of like May. She's usually amusing to me. I don't even really fault her for being mad at Winslow. Envy is a pretty normal feeling. Anger born from it isn't a big deal. The only issue I'd have is the idea that he wronged her simply because he has someone who is willing to buy things for him.

I think she's fine as a punchline delivery system. I don't care much for her story, or as a vehicle for heavy-handed parables on how to treat your fellow sentients.

[John Cribati]

I kind of like May. She's usually amusing to me. I don't even really fault her for being mad at Winslow. Envy is a pretty normal feeling. Anger born from it isn't a big deal. The only issue I'd have is the idea that he wronged her simply because he has someone who is willing to buy things for him.

Being harshly reminded of a life-affecting problem that you're in the (harsh and arduous) process of solving, by someone bragging about having someone else solve it for them almost as soon as they had it, is not being envious.

Likewise, having someone willing to buy stuff for you is not the same as being insensitive to someone who's been working her ass off for months to buy that same thing- especially considering that "working her ass off" has a fair chance of becoming literal.

[Shogo]

If what she is feeling isn't envy, it's jealousy. Though I'm still going to lean towards envy, unless she outright states she deserves the new body more than he does.

Her being reminded of her own problems by Winslow getting a new body as a gift doesn't change that in the slightest. It makes her feelings of envy more understandable, but it's still anger born of envy.