Questionable Content 11: It's Like Seeing a Unicorn

[Lethologica]

I suspect if Bubbles had talked to May and Momo had talked to Winslow, the comic would have a lot more "Jeez, May, stop being a d*ck" in it right now.

[stsasser]

Who or what is the Barry referred to in the after comment??

[John Cribati]

I suspect if Bubbles had talked to May and Momo had talked to Winslow, the comic would have a lot more "Jeez, May, stop being a d*ck" in it right now.

To be fair being a d*ck is about 98% of her character.

[Traab]

Who or what is the Barry referred to in the after comment??

Thats the alligator guy. Also the loony dude at bruns bar before it burned down.

[memnarch]

Who or what is the Barry referred to in the after comment??

Dude in the hat on the left.

[stsasser]

Thats the alligator guy. Also the loony dude at bruns bar before it burned down.

Dude in the hat on the left.

Ah! Many thanks! Jimbo v.2

[SaintRidley]

That Ozymandias painting is my everything.

[Traab]

I dont get it. Isnt ozy this big blue god?

[eee]

OK, three things: I am surprised Momo didn't call May out for being a jerk, that May hasn't had second thoughts about reaming out a friend for his good fortune, and that tea costs two dollars.

That Ozymandias painting is my everything.

I agree! "Look upon my works, Ye Mighty, and DESPAIR!"

I wonder where I can get one like it. Of course if you don't read Shelley you won't understand the witticism...

[Grey_Wolf_c]

I dont get it. Isnt ozy this big blue god?

If you are talking about Watchmen, that would be Dr. Manhattan. Ozymandias was the main antagonist.

But the reference (of both) is to Shelley's poem:

I met a traveller from an antique land
Who said: Two vast and trunkless legs of stone
Stand in the desert... near them, on the sand,
Half sunk, a shattered visage lies, whose frown,
And wrinkled lip, and sneer of cold command,
Tell that its sculptor well those passions read
Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things,
The hand that mocked them and the heart that fed:

And on the pedestal these words appear:
'My name is Ozymandias, king of kings:
Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!'
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare
The lone and level sands stretch far away.

GW

[John Cribati]

I am surprised Momo didn't call May out for being a jerk,

May had been a jerk since she's been a character. Is pay off jet personality.

that May hasn't had second thoughts about reaming out a friend for his good fortune,

She isn't mad at Winslow for getting a new body in and of itself. She's mad at Winslow for being insensitive. She never said that Winslow doesn't deserve it. She never said that she should have a new body instead. It was the way in which he showed it [off] to her, and it came off as if free were rubbing his good fortune in her (newly myomered) face.

[Felius]

She isn't mad at Winslow for getting a new body in and of itself. She's mad at Winslow for being insensitive. She never said that Winslow doesn't deserve it. She never said that she should have a new body instead. It was the way in which he showed it [off] to her, and it came off as if free were rubbing his good fortune in her (newly myomered) face.

Except that he wasn't. At the very most he could have not done it during her job, but other than that, there's nothing for him to do that would have made her less likely to be offended. His options to avoid her being mad would have been either not getting the body or never interacting with her again. While I do say that the second option does have its merits, given how much of a jerk May is, he does, for some reason, think of her as a friend.

[McDouggal]

I'd be a lot more inclined to agree with May ifthis wasn't Winslow's previous body.

He's gone from "basically mobile across the room and completely useless for most things" to "actually able to do something." We've seen that AI in this universe can have human psychological problems, and being for the most part isolated is a good way to create new neuroses or exacerbate existing ones.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Except that he wasn't. At the very most he could have not done it during her job, but other than that, there's nothing for him to do that would have made her less likely to be offended. His options to avoid her being mad would have been either not getting the body or never interacting with her again. While I do say that the second option does have its merits, given how much of a jerk May is, he does, for some reason, think of her as a friend.

That is simply not true. He could've told her in advance that he was going to get a new body. Ask for her opinion. Offer her to come along and help him choose one. Got a less flashy (and less expensive) model. There are many ways in which a rich friend can make a poor friend fell less bad about a splurge and remain friends.

Again, I refer you back to my example of a guy struggling with his clunker having a friend come over because his dad just got him a Tesla. This isn't about "who is the bad guy", because there isn't "a bad guy" in this scenario, this is about showing sensitivity towards those that are not as well off as yourself.

ETA: Also, for those wanting to put all the blame in May because she is a jerk, note that Momo was equally unimpressed with Winslow's showing off. Momo too is having to work hard to pay for her body, and it is as off-putting to her as it is for May that Winslow got a top of the line model for free. She is just being more polite about it.

Grey Wolf

[Felius]

That is simply not true. He could've told her in advance that he was going to get a new body. Ask for her opinion. Offer her to come along and help him choose one. Got a less flashy (and less expensive) model. There are many ways in which a rich friend can make a poor friend fell less bad about a splurge and remain friends.

Again, I refer you back to my example of a guy struggling with his clunker having a friend come over because his dad just got him a Tesla. This isn't about "who is the bad guy", because there isn't "a bad guy" in this scenario, this is about showing sensitivity towards those that are not as well off as yourself.

Grey Wolf

Telling her in advance would just as likely be interpreted as being rubbing it on her face, as would getting her to come with him to help pick the body. Getting a less expensive model? He hardly got the more expensive possibility, and very much should not feel obligated to get a worse option to make people who are nominally his friends not get pissed at him. And this is very much not a "I just feel like splurging, lemme throw money at toys". Winslow was a bloody Ipad going to an actually humanoid body, becoming more mobile, being able to better interact with the rest of his friends and so forth.

The problem your second paragraph here is that there is a bad guy in this scenario, and that is May. She acts like a complete jerk and not only no one calls her on it, but everyone in universe acts like if her actions were perfectly justifiable. Where the most that can be really put at Winslow feet is that he was wrong when he thought of May as his friend.

[georgie_leech]

ETA: Also, for those wanting to put all the blame in May because she is a jerk, note that Momo was equally unimpressed with Winslow's showing off. Momo too is having to work hard to pay for her body, and it is as off-putting to her as it is for May that Winslow got a top of the line model for free. She is just being more polite about it.

Grey Wolf

You're gonna have to explain that one to me, because I mostly just read her reaction as "Oh! That's nice...?" I'd probably react similarly to someone telling me about pretty much anything they were excited about if I was at work at the time.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Telling her in advance would just as likely be interpreted as being rubbing it on her face, as would getting her to come with him to help pick the body. Getting a less expensive model? He hardly got the more expensive possibility, and very much should not feel obligated to get a worse option to make people who are nominally his friends not get pissed at him.

I'm going to guess you only have friends in your economic group, if you so casually dismiss those kinds of gestures as useless. I suggest you make friends with someone much worse off than you. It will give you perspective.

Winslow was a bloody Ipad going to an actually humanoid body, becoming more mobile, being able to better interact with the rest of his friends and so forth.

None of which has any particular impact in any of what I said. May is cognizant of what it means to have a body unsuitable for even basic everyday use. That is not what put her off. It was the fact that she has to work very hard to achieve the same, and Winslow just got it handed to him for no significant effort on his part.

The problem your second paragraph here is that there is a bad guy in this scenario, and that is May. She acts like a complete jerk and not only no one calls her on it, but everyone in universe acts like if her actions were perfectly justifiable. Where the most that can be really put at Winslow feet is that he was wrong when he thought of May as his friend.

Being a jerk doesn't make you a bad guy. The fact that you think it does is part of the reason why you are trying to find a bad guy here. The reality is that one friend was insensitive, two friends were discomforted by it, and that's it. Trying to assign blame is the problem, not the solution.

ETA:

You're gonna have to explain that one to me, because I mostly just read her reaction as "Oh! That's nice...?" I'd probably react similarly to someone telling me about pretty much anything they were excited about if I was at work at the time.

It's how I'm reading the interaction. A pregnant pause, followed by her just not having anything nice to say (beyond the basic "that is indeed a nice model"), therefore not saying anything at all. This is reinforced by yesterday's conversation between Momo and May, where she volunteers that showing off was insensitive. Yes, I suppose there are other ways to read it, but that one matches, I think, what Jeff is trying to communicate.

Grey Wolf

[Fawkes]

I think the Tesla car analogy breaks down when you consider that it's literally his body. In his old body, Winslow was basically a house pet. Getting his new body is like getting freedom.

(Also, did I miss something, because I don't recall Winslow and May ever being that close to warrant him involving her in a huge decision was affects his very identity)

[Grey_Wolf_c]

I think the Tesla car analogy breaks down when you consider that it's literally his body. In his old body, Winslow was basically a house pet. Getting his new body is like getting freedom.

... which is how many, many Americans feel about getting their first car. Literally, the US culture of the last 50 years for adolescents revolves around how car represents liberty (less so for the millenials, I'll grant you). Yes, it's not a perfect parallel, but I feel it is close enough to exemplify my point.

GW

[Fawkes]

... which is how many, many Americans feel about getting their first car. Literally, the US culture of the last 50 years for adolescents revolves around how car represents liberty (less so for the millenials, I'll grant you). Yes, it's not a perfect parallel, but I feel it is close enough to exemplify my point.

GW

I mean, I see your point here, and I agree with it in a macro sense. I just think this story isn't a particular good parable for privilege given that it's kind ignoring how Winslow got his privilege through being purchased as a servant and May got into this predicament by stealing millions of dollars to illegally purchase a military grade combat drone.

[Comrade]

Okay I didn't have any issues with the Bubbles comic yesterday but I think today we have crossed over into unreasonableness. Privilege is a very real thing, but this is not a good allegory and the mood whiplash is not working for me.

Yeah, I think that was the point I went from 'casually checking up on the comic but not being very invested' to 'nope, I'm done here'. I haven't liked the comic's gradual shift away from its core characters and its increasing 'mangaisation' for a while, but this-- every character making excuses for May's rude behaviour and tiptoeing around her because privilege-- is just ridiculous. There are serious and reasonable ways to address the phenomenon of privilege in art. This ain't one of them.

I used to really enjoy this webcomic, but I'm pretty sure it's ceased to be for me anymore.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

I mean, I see your point here, and I agree with it in a macro sense. I just think this story isn't a particular good parable for privilege given that it's kind ignoring how Winslow got his privilege through being purchased as a servant and May got into this predicament by stealing millions of dollars to illegally purchase a military grade combat drone.

No, May got into this predicament by serving her time, and then being thrust out into society with no support to help her rebuild her life. That is crucial. Thinking of her still as a thief that "deserves" what she is getting is part of the problem.

Now, yes, the whole business of purchasing self-aware individuals in QC is very problematic the moment you think about it. So is the fact that Winslow didn't have a fully functioning body. But AIs seem to be fine with the first bit, and May is going through the second one herself, so I cannot give Winslow brownie points for either.

Again: I'm not trying to make out Winslow to be "the bad guy" here. He was excited, and he didn't think how this would look from other's PoV. It happens. And so far, the comic is dealing with the fallout of that kind of blunder more or less as I would expect. I've been there (for lesser things), in both of Winslow's and Momo's shoes.

Grey Wolf

[Fawkes]

Did May actually serve her time? My memory is that she was on some sort of probation/parole because Dale had lied and said she was reformed.

[John Cribati]

Okay, here's the thing. If Winslow had gone up to May and just said "Hey May, it's Winslow." and left it there, maybe May could have brought up some questions as to how he got his new body. Now, whether or not he knew beforehand just how hard May is working, May still has a right to feel however she does about the fact that he solved this problem when she's working hard to solve a similar problem, but she would only ask the questions she wanted to ask. The issue with the interaction itself was that Winslow moved straight to "I wanted a new body on a whim and my super-rich friend bought it for me and I didn't have to work at all for it." Furthermore, he came to her place of work to show it off. Even if he didn't intend to come off that way, he was more or less rubbing it in her face, and that is May's issue.

Did May actually serve her time? My memory is that she was on some sort of probation/parole because Dale had lied and said she was reformed.

That isn't really the issue. Whatever legal hoops she had to get through, someone still decided to let her out into society without giving her the proper tools to adapt to it. That is not her fault.

[Felius]

I'm going to guess you only have friends in your economic group, if you so casually dismiss those kinds of gestures as useless. I suggest you make friends with someone much worse off than you. It will give you perspective.

I will appreciate if you cut the patronizing crap and stop assuming things about my life.

Did May actually serve her time? My memory is that she was on some sort of probation/parole because Dale had lied and said she was reformed.

And I do wonder how much of her predicament is truly about her being an ex-con/on probation and how much is that she's a complete jerk with terrible impulse control all the time thus making it hard as hell to actually make use of any opportunity she does get?

[Keltest]

That isn't really the issue. Whatever legal hoops she had to get through, someone still decided to let her out into society without giving her the proper tools to adapt to it. That is not her fault.

No, but the fact that she had no friends or family to go back to likely is. We don't know what her situation was before she stole that money, but given that Dale was apparently the first person she could find who could actually put up with her enough to give her a place to stay (or alternatively, the one she pegged as most likely to let her do so) does not speak well of her life and means before she went to robot jail either.

[Fawkes]

Do robots in QC-verse have family?

Wait, who even built May? And for what purpose? Was she created by humans, or is she a product of the singularity? Did she do or know anything before stealing money to buy a drone?

Man, these are questions that would probably go a long way to making May feel like an actual character that I care about.

[Comrade]

Okay, here's the thing. If Winslow had gone up to May and just said "Hey May, it's Winslow." and left it there, maybe May could have brought up some questions as to how he got his new body. Now, whether or not he knew beforehand just how hard May is working, May still has a right to feel however she does about the fact that he solved this problem when she's working hard to solve a similar problem, but she would only ask the questions she wanted to ask. The issue with the interaction itself was that Winslow moved straight to "I wanted a new body on a whim and my super-rich friend bought it for me and I didn't have to work at all for it." Furthermore, he came to her place of work to show it off. Even if he didn't intend to come off that way, he was more or less rubbing it in her face, and that is May's issue.

Yeah, and she's welcome to feel however she feels about it, but she shouldn't feel welcome to act as rude and insulting as she has. My problem with it isn't how May feels or even necessarily how she acts, but the fact that the author clearly is painting her as just in her behaviour when she certainly isn't. And he didn't say that at all; he literally just said 'I decided I wanted to be a humanoid like [various AI characters] so Hannelore got it for me'. I can understand May being resentful of it and her crude reaction is pretty much in keeping with her character, but Momo coddling her as if she was actually the victim of something here, or Bubbles giving Winslow the 'it's because of your privilege' talk? It's a clumsy and poorly-handled attempt to address the subject of privilege.

[Wraith]

I can understand May being resentful of it and her crude reaction is pretty much in keeping with her character, but Momo coddling her as if she was actually the victim of something here....

Bubbles came across as somewhat reasonable and sympathetic, but the other strip genuinely made me wonder if Momo had an ulterior motive beyond just conversing with her friend. She immediately concedes responsibility and, when offered a compliment, scoots a little bit closer; a significantly intimate gesture. Am I reading too much into it, or could this be a hint at an intended AI romance story?

[Lethologica]

No one besides May and Winslow actually knows how May reacted. Momo doesn't know at all, and Bubbles only got the most general description, in a statement that was highly charitable towards May. I would go so far as to say they shouldn't react the way we are reacting--they don't have access to the same information.

That's also why I said what I said earlier about how things might have gone if Bubbles and Momo were reversed--Momo would be more likely to ask Winslow for details, and Bubbles would be less likely to put up with May's antagonism.