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  1. - Top - End - #211
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    DwarfClericGuy

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    Default Re: OOTS #1086 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ruck View Post
    Don't feed the "registered an account today to do nothing but complain about trans people" troll.
    The report post button is so much less aggravating...

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    Default Re: OOTS #1086 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Windscion View Post
    Greg really really should have specified to whom the memory would be useful. Looks like Durkon's memory was more useful to Teams Thor and Stick than Team Hel.
    it also looks like Durkon has learned to paint details. im pretty sure thats the current High Priestess of Thor at the ceremony as well
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    Default Re: OOTS #1086 - The Discussion Thread

    Ah. I think I see.

    The memory was useful, but not to Darkon (fusion of "dark" and "Durkon" - everyone else is making up names so I might as well). The obvious wards in the memory were useful as a deterrent to Darkon and to Hel's other clerics.

    On a lighter note: that guy has quite a problem with the door, doesn't he? I'm loving that side joke!

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    Default Re: OOTS #1086 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by AuthorGirl View Post
    Ah. I think I see.

    The memory was useful, but not to Darkon (fusion of "dark" and "Durkon" - everyone else is making up names so I might as well). The obvious wards in the memory were useful as a deterrent to Darkon and to Hel's other clerics.

    On a lighter note: that guy has quite a problem with the door, doesn't he? I'm loving that side joke!
    Darkon? I thought it was Durkula.
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  5. - Top - End - #215
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    Default Re: OOTS #1086 - The Discussion Thread

    How in Thor's name do Durkon's memories include the expressions of the people he couldn't see behind him?

    For that matter, why do so many of those memories include Durkon's own face?

    Can it be "vampire magic" calling up past events from a point-of-view outside Durkon's body and not memories in the exact sense?

    No matter what it is, I've never seen anything like Rich's narrative tool of victim memories informing the vampiric soul on demand, allowing the undead to mimic the old life. It's brilliant: exposition and plot forwarding in one stroke.
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  6. - Top - End - #216
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    Default Re: OOTS #1086 - The Discussion Thread

    My effort at a "no prize" for how Durkon can see himself in his memory is that there is a mirror. Great comic. Interesting that some of the dwarves are frowning on what should be a happy occasion. I bet that Durkon did put some extra clarity on his memory of the wards to move the vampire hit squad away.

  7. - Top - End - #217
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    Default Re: OOTS #1086 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by White Magic View Post
    How in Thor's name do Durkon's memories include the expressions of the people he couldn't see behind him?

    For that matter, why do so many of those memories include Durkon's own face?
    ....
    A memory is not necessarily just a photographic recall of what your eyes saw, and a phonographic recall of what your ears heard.
    You can very easily argue that a memory is how you believe the events unfolded.
    Easily illustrated by just how bad eyewitness testimony can be compared to a video record, or how an individuals memory of an event can literally change over time.

    (don't think that last one can happen? Compare what someone who is 70 years old thinks of something now, vs what they thought of the same event 10 years before)

  8. - Top - End - #218
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    Default Re: OOTS #1086 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by White Magic View Post
    How in Thor's name do Durkon's memories include the expressions of the people he couldn't see behind him?

    For that matter, why do so many of those memories include Durkon's own face?

    Can it be "vampire magic" calling up past events from a point-of-view outside Durkon's body and not memories in the exact sense?

    No matter what it is, I've never seen anything like Rich's narrative tool of victim memories informing the vampiric soul on demand, allowing the undead to mimic the old life. It's brilliant: exposition and plot forwarding in one stroke.
    He could have turned at some point to glance at them. Mostly I'd imagine it's how he presumed they were.
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    Default Re: OOTS #1086 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by AuthorGirl View Post
    Ah. I think I see.

    The memory was useful, but not to Darkon (fusion of "dark" and "Durkon" - everyone else is making up names so I might as well). The obvious wards in the memory were useful as a deterrent to Darkon and to Hel's other clerics.
    If this is true, I've got to say that I love how this situation has forced Durkon to develop something resembling a sense of guile, something he was sorely lacking before. Before his vampirism, the closest I can remember him coming to rules-lawyering was his acceptance of the dwarven tradition of suicide-by-tree as a way to circumvent a dishonorable death by old age.
    Last edited by Xyril; 2017-07-29 at 10:41 PM.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1086 - The Discussion Thread

    On a different tack, why not ask the more freshly-drained dwarfs in the previous comic about the rooms beyond? Surely they'd have more up-to-date memories. Were they just eaten, not turned?

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    Default Re: OOTS #1086 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Xyril View Post
    Before his vampirism, the closest I can remember him coming to rules-lawyering was his acceptance of the dwarven tradition of suicide-by-tree as a way to circumvent a dishonorable death by old age.
    I think #264, meaningfully titled "I Cannae Tell a Lie", is as close as we've seen.

    Quote Originally Posted by TaRix View Post
    On a different tack, why not ask the more freshly-drained dwarfs in the previous comic about the rooms beyond? Surely they'd have more up-to-date memories. Were they just eaten, not turned?
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    Default Re: OOTS #1086 - The Discussion Thread

    Interesting side note: the red haired dwarf asking Durkon to perform at his wedding is Uncle Hoskin. Guess he gave up on asking Sigdi to marry him.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1086 - The Discussion Thread

    On vampire personalities:
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    Quote Originally Posted by Basement Cat View Post
    It's clear that not all new vampires are as smart as they were before they were made undead. Geez.
    I would have gone with "mature" before "smart". Gontor/Craig is acting more like a child than an idiot.


    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    Yes, they were religious, but very prominently, chose to NOT follow a god, but a force of nature (stone), even though it meant not having a voice or a vote in the moots. Their vampire spirits could easily decide to eschew Hel and worship the dark energy instead.
    You know, when they get to that rebellious teenager phase.


    Quote Originally Posted by Rogar Demonblud View Post
    Because the vampire wanted a dramatic confrontation with Roy in the desecrated remains of the Temple of Thor. It's like the bloodsucker read Tarquin's book or something.
    I can think of few things more horrifying to most members of the order than an eternity trapped with someone who takes Elan's thoughts on dramatic suitability seriously.


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    Belkar, OTOH, would hate anything that impinged on his freedom and ability to get lost in the moment of slaughtering things.
    "Once I'm free of this weird red stuff, I'm gonna strangle you with it!"
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    "Worth it!"
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unoriginal View Post
    A few years ago, when me and my old group were playing Pathfinder, the DM had the house we were in surrounded by a large gang of vampires. We were in "oh s**t" mode for a bit... until we realized that those vampires couldn't come in without being invited. Leading the head vampire trying to tell us to get out while we laugh at her face.

    Then this happen[ed]:
    Head Vampire: *taunt/threaten the PCs in a way everyone know won't be able to affect us*
    One of the players, in-character: "Oh yeah? Why don't you come here and tell this to our face?"
    Cue all the other players looking at the guy with the most flabbergasted expression ever as the DM grins.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cazero View Post
    Being unable to enter somewhere without being invited makes you polite and respectful, wich [sic] is at complete odds with the usual characterization of vampires as villains. If there is actual symbolism making them eeeevil for respecting my boundaries, I'm not seeing it.
    ...Vampires were not just "eeeevil". Symbolism is about what goes beyond their plot purpose as villains, e.g. the aspects which make them capable of representing upper-class greed and gluttony, disease, or our baser vices. More here. As to how the can't-come-in-without-invitation thing works...you need to give the upper class a reason or opportunity before they target you with their greed, older understandings of disease (and, to an extent, modern ones) said you'd be safe if you avoided tainted areas and didn't let anything tainted in, and obviously vices don't affect you if you don't "let them in". (There are probably better explanations from people who spent more than a minute total thinking about this.)


    Quote Originally Posted by 8BitNinja View Post
    Darkon? I thought it was Durkula.
    That's the most-accepted name. (Or tied with Greg, I'm not keeping track. But Greg is so random that I can't take it seriously.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by woweedd View Post
    Oh, prophecies. Why are you always so ironic?
    Because non-ironic prophecies are usually either boring or wrong.


    Quote Originally Posted by PBlades View Post
    If a door that wants to be closed is a wall, what is a door that wants to be opened?
    You messed up the BBcode. But I appreciate your choice of answer.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mad Humanist View Post
    A coincidence I suspect. She's sitting on the family side. That would make her related to Durkon, which would have completely changed the plot. She would immediately have known Durkon's name when his letter arrived. Also she does not look that similar.
    Aside from Durkon's mother and probably-grandfather, everyone in the front row on that side is wearing the same vestments as those on the other side. Seating arrangements are clearly not that simplistic.
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  14. - Top - End - #224
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    Default Re: OOTS #1086 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Riftwolf View Post
    Interesting side note: the red haired dwarf asking Durkon to perform at his wedding is Uncle Hoskin. Guess he gave up on asking Sigdi to marry him.
    Or she said "yes". Or he keeps asking her and assumes she'll say "yes" sooner or later.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1086 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by 8BitNinja View Post
    Darkon? I thought it was Durkula.
    Good idea. That would be more difficult to type accidentally when trying to refer to Durkon.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1086 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by White Magic View Post
    How in Thor's name do Durkon's memories include the expressions of the people he couldn't see behind him?

    For that matter, why do so many of those memories include Durkon's own face?

    Can it be "vampire magic" calling up past events from a point-of-view outside Durkon's body and not memories in the exact sense?

    No matter what it is, I've never seen anything like Rich's narrative tool of victim memories informing the vampiric soul on demand, allowing the undead to mimic the old life. It's brilliant: exposition and plot forwarding in one stroke.
    We know from references to panels and time between that the characters know they are in a comic. He's not remembering the scenes as he saw them but as what the scenes would have been depicted as had they been read.
    Last edited by Throknor; 2017-07-30 at 12:36 PM.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1086 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Quebbster View Post
    Or she said "yes". Or he keeps asking her and assumes she'll say "yes" sooner or later.
    Or he's talking about the dwarf woman- who definitely isn't Sigdi -he's walking arm in arm with.
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    Default Re: OOTS #1086 - The Discussion Thread

    Now this is character development done well. The plot still moves forward, it's believable, and it stays long enough to move your heart, but not long enough as to be tiresome.

    As for the splash panel of the people behind Memory!Durkon, they appear to be making noise (one of them is shush-ing). Durkon could very easily have pictured it in his mind. Given that the only annoyed people are clergy folk, Durkon probably knows them (and would know they wouldn't approve of such rowdyness).

    Memory is a funny thing: They don't have to be everything seen through Durkon's eyes. Hell, they might not even be factually true, only that Durkon believes it happened that way.

    Bonus points if that is the way Durkula is beaten. Extra bonus points if the blessed dolly is involved.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1086 - The Discussion Thread

    all this talk of memmories and knowing what's behind you etc just makes me want to set up an elaborite set of occourances, that i reccord on flm, then reccord myself recalling what happened and when from memmoy every year or so, to see how it changes with time.
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    Default Re: OOTS #1086 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Cazero View Post
    Being unable to enter somewhere without being invited makes you polite and respectful, wich is at complete odds with the usual characterization of vampires as villains. If there is actual symbolism making them eeeevil for respecting my boundaries, I'm not seeing it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    My recall is that it was originally a facet of their supreme OCD. It wasn't that they literally were physically unable to because of a magic barrier or something, simply that they were unable to bring themselves to force entry into a home where they weren't invited to.
    Nah. I am going with literally physically unable to cross the magic barrier.

    Vampires of old Christian mythology are basically in-league-with-Satan-himself evil spirits. Whether this was a somehow acquired property of the soul of the dead person that imbues the corpse with evil or some demon that infected the corpse after death was rather ambiguous.

    Keep in mind that every important building would have been blessed by the priest, most especially the dwellings of those with real money. So in a weak sense, they are all "holy ground". That would not really matter for the usual day to day events, but would be expected to keep real devils from simply waltzing in. To suggest otherwise implies that those priests you paid coin to did not know how to splash their holy water around and speak their prayers in latin, which is a borderline blasphemy because it denigrates their competence at the Seven Sacraments, too. ("Excuse me, m'lord, but you are two centuries too early to Protestant Reformation. The Inquisition is here to rip out your entrails to help you confess your trespasses, so they can save your soul before your imminent expiration.")

    Thus the politeness act is not a requirement, but a convenient subterfuge. A person of noble bearing with the right manners who appears at the door of the aristocrat would not ask to be invited or barge in; he would be "correct" to expect an invitation for a meal and lodging in return for entertaining conversation and news about the world.

    As for whether peasant dwellings afford such protection, I would say...I dunno. Even most poor homes were permanent structures that passed through generations, and some poor traveling priest who wanted to encourage religious spirit in the poor would probably do such things on the cheap. The poorest of the poor were fodder for the evil spirits, as their rickety hovels were unblessed and their dead to interred in graves without the money to pay for priestly blessing.

    To explicitly address Cazero's point, it is exactly because vampires are eeeeevil that they are physically required to respect certain boundaries. So they make a show of being oh so polite both as a ploy to hide their embarrassing little problem and a tactic to gain invitations.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1086 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by AuthorGirl View Post
    Good idea. That would be more difficult to type accidentally when trying to refer to Durkon.
    Thanks, but it wasn't my idea. The term Durkula was thrown around on the forum a lot when the party was at the godsmoot.
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    Default Re: OOTS #1086 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by 8BitNinja View Post
    Thanks, but it wasn't my idea. The term Durkula was thrown around on the forum a lot when the party was at the godsmoot.
    I'm pretty sure somebody came up with that name approximately 0.03 seconds after Durkon was first made a vampire, to be honest, it certainly didn't start up when they got to the Godsmoot.

  23. - Top - End - #233
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    Default Re: OOTS #1086 - The Discussion Thread

    I was using it in 876, around about the time he was first grappled by Malack:

    Quote Originally Posted by hamishspence View Post
    I've been wondering that. Maybe Durkula will be initiated into the clergy of Nergal by Malack, and go back to the Eastern Continent, then North and "bring death and destruction for us all".
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    Default Re: OOTS #1086 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by White Magic View Post
    How in Thor's name do Durkon's memories include the expressions of the people he couldn't see behind him?

    For that matter, why do so many of those memories include Durkon's own face?

    Can it be "vampire magic" calling up past events from a point-of-view outside Durkon's body and not memories in the exact sense?

    No matter what it is, I've never seen anything like Rich's narrative tool of victim memories informing the vampiric soul on demand, allowing the undead to mimic the old life. It's brilliant: exposition and plot forwarding in one stroke.
    It's the Fourth Wall making an appearance--pun intended.
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