OOTS #1086 - The Discussion Thread

[Hiro Quester]

I love the image of Durkon's Mother in the audience, crying tears of pride.

A door is doing its job perfectly if it prevents ingress by those who are unwelcome.

I wonder why these new vampire spawn, who were part of the Creed of the Stone and obviously still have some spells left prepared (one casts dispel magic) don't have at least one stone shape prepared among them, to go in through a wall instead.

[woweedd]

What is with the exarch and ensuring things follow the proper role?

He's a Cleric of Earth, why wouldn't he be a bit rigid? Perhaps even hard-headed?

[dtilque]

So Greg agrees that they don't need to unseal the temple door. Why was it important then? Because they expected their targets to gather in the temple and they planned to stake it out so they could pounce and Dominate everyone?

I don't think the Council will meet at the temple. It's where Durkula wanted to attack the Order.

Their vampire spirits could easily decide to eschew Hel and worship the dark energy instead.

Never occured to me that anyone would worship a cosmological force, but I guess one is allowed to worship anything. So you think anyone will worship dark matter? Neutrinos? The strong nuclear force?

[Doug Lampert]

I really have to wonder how that inner dialogue goes for evil souls.

Fiend: Soon, all your sins shall be mine, all your virtues corrupted.
Soul: Bitch, I am all sin. Soon, you will be just like me, with fangs.
Fiend: Er, just like you...
Soul: Me... me, me, me.
Fiend: Me too.

Fiend: Ah, how cute, you get to WATCH HELPLESSLY as I do all the things you wanted to do and get all the pleasure of doing them. Being a passive and helpless observer will be so pleasant for you I'm sure!

Evil people don't simply want evil things to happen, evil is not one big happy family. Evil is not a team where you are happy if your team is doing well.

Evil people want things that benefit them or their cause to happen badly enough that they don't care about the consequences to others. The vampire's evil may not be the same as the soul's evil, and even if it is, benefiting the vampire doesn't benefit the soul. Why would the soul be any happier that the vampire spirit is also evil? It's still a spirit that has you trapped in your own dead body and that's abusing you for as long as your soul lasts. Screw liking that just because there are some similarities between the soul and the vampire. That probably just makes it worse.

[woweedd]

I don't think the Council will meet at the temple. It's where Durkula wanted to attack the Order.



Never occured to me that anyone would worship a cosmological force, but I guess one is allowed to worship anything. So you think anyone will worship dark matter? Neutrinos? The strong nuclear force?

What are those? Everyone know the universe is made from the four basic elements: Fire, Water, Earth, and Air!

[woweedd]

Fiend: Ah, how cute, you get to WATCH HELPLESSLY as I do all the things you wanted to do and get all the pleasure of doing them. Being a passive and helpless observer will be so pleasant for you I'm sure!

Evil people don't simply want evil things to happen, evil is not one big happy family. Evil is not a team where you are happy if your team is doing well.

Evil people want things that benefit them or their cause to happen badly enough that they don't care about the consequences to others. The vampire's evil may not be the same as the soul's evil, and even if it is, benefiting the vampire doesn't benefit the soul. Why would the soul be any happier that the vampire spirit is also evil? It's still a spirit that has you trapped in your own dead body and that's abusing you for as long as your soul lasts. Screw liking that just because there are some similarities between the soul and the vampire. That probably just makes it worse.

Plus, hey, it's entirely possible for even the most depraved individuals to have things they care about that the vampire may hurt. I mean, even Belkar has at least one creature he cares about. Vampire Belker would probably wiring Mr. Scruffy's neck.

[danielxcutter]

I really have to wonder how that inner dialogue goes for evil souls.

Fiend: Soon, all your sins shall be mine, all your virtues corrupted.
Soul: Bitch, I am all sin. Soon, you will be just like me, with fangs.
Fiend: Er, just like you...
Soul: Me... me, me, me.
Fiend: Me too.

Fiend: Ah, how cute, you get to WATCH HELPLESSLY as I do all the things you wanted to do and get all the pleasure of doing them. Being a passive and helpless observer will be so pleasant for you I'm sure!

Can I quote these?

[ManuelSacha]

Both prophecies about Durkon are about to be fulfilled, not just the SoD one.

[woweedd]

Both prophecies about Durkon are about to be fulfilled, not just the SoD one.

..Are you just now getting that?

[dtilque]

What are those? Everyone know the universe is made from the four basic elements: Fire, Water, Earth, and Air!

Some of us got passing grades in Chem. Physics, too.

[woweedd]

Some of us got passing grades in Chem. Physics, too.

And some of us majored in Lit and became Tarquin. You take your pick of extremist, theoretically-Good-intentioned LE charecters.

[TheNecrocomicon]

"Door, what are you good for?"
"Aggravating vampires."

Door, huh! (North Gods, y'all!) What is it good for? Aggravatin' vampires!

[The MunchKING]

I just noticed all the angry priests in the back trying to shush Durkon's friends and family who are cheering him. Nice touch.

I was kind of surprised Thor's Clergy aren't the type to condone loud celebration during a worship service.

[8BitNinja]

This left me with a few questions.

What sect of the dwarvish religion uses the wearing of yamakas?

How big is Durkon's family? He has a cousin, but is that the only one?

When do clerics start their duties?

[ref]

These things don't know Roy has a key.

[NihhusHuotAliro]

Door: 1

Scumbag Vampire Murderers Who Want To Hurt Door's Masters: 0

[Keltest]

This left me with a few questions.

What sect of the dwarvish religion uses the wearing of yamakas?

How big is Durkon's family? He has a cousin, but is that the only one?

When do clerics start their duties?

I believe that is intended to be a helmet of some sort, consistent with his wearing of chainmail.

[keybounce]

I find myself wondering what a HHGTTG door would say in response. If it had Marvin's personality instead of that ultra-cheerful one.

I am a door. Do you know what a door's purpose, and function is? We let people in or out. But we have a choice. We are not helpless, oh sure, you go in, you go out. If that were the case, we might as well not be there, and just have an open doorway arch. No, we are here, so we get to decide. And I have decided. You do not get to enter today. Not today, not tomorrow.

[NihhusHuotAliro]

I find myself wondering what a HHGTTG door would say in response. If it had Marvin's personality instead of that ultra-cheerful one.

I am a door. Do you know what a door's purpose, and function is? We let people in or out. But we have a choice. We are not helpless, oh sure, you go in, you go out. If that were the case, we might as well not be there, and just have an open doorway arch. No, we are here, so we get to decide. And I have decided. You do not get to enter today. Not today, not tomorrow.

Eddie the door. I always had a soft spot for him, unreliable fool that he is.

[TheNecrocomicon]

I believe that is intended to be a helmet of some sort, consistent with his wearing of chainmail.

Perhaps a magic helmet? (Would need a spear to go with it, though ...)

[Psyren]

"Door, what are you good for?"
"Aggravating vampires."

You'd think of all the undead creatures to understand how doors work, vampires would be it...

Actually, that just makes me wonder - even if the door were to open, how would they get in? Nobody would be inviting them. He was explicitly invited on board the Mechane and into the Godsmoot, but clearly not here. (Durkon is in fact free to come home, but Greg left before hearing that.) The teleport orb may have circumvented that restriction for getting them inside the complex, but it's been used up.

[anonynos]

Fiend: Ah, how cute, you get to WATCH HELPLESSLY as I do all the things you wanted to do and get all the pleasure of doing them. Being a passive and helpless observer will be so pleasant for you I'm sure!
.

While true that team evil isn't one happy family, this also seems to suppose that the vampire fiend thing is there to punish the soul. In a situation where the soul is already evil, and perhaps a willing participant in the depravity, the conversation is probably a lot more like...

Soul:What the what?
Fiend: MUHAH! I'm here to corrupt your virtues! Oh... wait... I see you are already corrupted... hmm. Well, this will be easier.
Soul: Oh, I'm a vampire now? This is weird... I didn't know it worked like this... so like, what now?
Fiend: Share your memories with me so that we may merge together and get on with this evil business.
Soul: Oh. Okay... lets get it on.
*Barry White starts playing*

[ManuelSacha]

..Are you just now getting that?

Rude.
I was just adding up to a pre-existant discussion between people who (through not fault of their own) were "just now getting" to know about the SoD prophecy, because they never read that book, and others who informed them of it without mentioning the second prophecy.
My comment was there for the sake of completion.
But congratulations for knowing all of it already.

[Cerlis]

You'd think of all the undead creatures to understand how doors work, vampires would be it...

Actually, that just makes me wonder - even if the door were to open, how would they get in? Nobody would be inviting them. He was explicitly invited on board the Mechane and into the Godsmoot, but clearly not here. (Durkon is in fact free to come home, but Greg left before hearing that.) The teleport orb may have circumvented that restriction for getting them inside the complex, but it's been used up.

i think across most media vampires need to be invited in private homes. the Mechane is not a home, the only "inside" is some cargo holds with a few latches. Of all the buildings out there churches and businesses are open to the public. in regards to magic one would find that any church being holy ground would be enough to deter most.

also while the insiraption for this story is D&D its not limited to it. However the genre does depict opposing forces (good, evil, stone, air ect) as being a contest of power. any undead stronger than a holy place would simply incur a disadvantage. depictions of Instantly turning to dust or whatever via getting on holy ground are from the horror genre.

obviously this is all theoretical. main point i guess it that those wards are probably the only thing keeping any evil entity from prancing in.

[Aeliren]

I think the future High Priestess of Thor is present at Durkon's ceremony. No scar, but the hair colour and light highlights in her hair seem to be the same.

[Lordchoculla]

New comic is up.

Thanks. Absolutely brilliant.

Incidentally, I am in the strip today. I am the old, fat, bearded, grumpy-looking dwarf with a cane sitting in the front seats. Perfect!

[137beth]

I honestly have no idea what deception Durkon is going for here. I can't wait to see how this Round turns out in the finished book.

[Jasdoif]

Actually, that just makes me wonder - even if the door were to open, how would they get in? Nobody would be inviting them. He was explicitly invited on board the Mechane and into the Godsmoot, but clearly not here. (Durkon is in fact free to come home, but Greg left before hearing that.) The teleport orb may have circumvented that restriction for getting them inside the complex, but it's been used up.

Offhand guesses of possibilities....

• If the sanctuary is normally open to the public, the exemption for public places would apply.
• If holding a runestone is sufficient to justify entry, in the same vein as Roy bearing one is supposed to, HPoH could possibly enter on that basis.
• If an off-panel victim with adequate authority was dominated into giving permission before being killed, we wouldn't see it.
• Perhaps HPoH simply hadn't thought that far ahead, and expected to dominate someone on the other side of the door.

[Lordchoculla]

Hey, don't be hard on Gontor*. Dude was literally born yesterday.

Yeah... poor dude...

[Lordchoculla]

I think the thing is that the temple was 'remodeled' after the initiation ceremony, in a way that removed or destroyed the wards.

I also suspect that the remodeling that occurred by Durkon's hand, and it was the reason for his exile.

My much more specific guess is that super-troll came back, and Durkon dropped the temple on it, in sort of a call-back to his father. Which means that Durkon saved the city, but in so doing committed a crime that demanded his exile.

Hmmm... my guess would be that the old highpriest saw that Durkon would bring destruction to the dwarven kingdom so to protect the kingdom, Durkon was expelled. However, that expulsion directly is what makes this destruction possible - if Durkon had not been expelled, he would not have been vampirized and thus would not have returned to bring doom and gloom.

Ironic, I think.

Just a thought.