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2017-07-28, 06:56 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2017
Low fantasy gaming - your thoughts about this game
I had a tab opened on one of my devices 'to be read later'. I can't remember where I got the link from, why I had the tab open. I finally read it yesterday. Intrigued, I come to hear your thoughts.
lowfantasygaming.com/
(I can't hyperlink here yet)
It's a complete little neat game D20, this Low fantasy gaming.
Have you heard of it? Read it? Played it? What did you think?
I'm puzzled by the lack of communication channels. As far as I can find, there's no link to a forum or a mail address - just comments to blog articles. Do anyone know where this game originated or if the maker hangs around somewhere?
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2017-07-28, 12:15 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2015
- Location
- San Francisco Bay area
- Gender
Re: Low fantasy gaming - your thoughts about this game
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2017-07-29, 12:52 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2008
Re: Low fantasy gaming - your thoughts about this game
I'm not too likely to actually play it, but there are a lot of things about it which I like.
I would really like to see a game made by Obryn, Kurald Galain, and Knaight from these forums.
I'm not joking one bit. I would buy the hell out of that. -- ChubbyRain
Current Design Project: Legacy, a game of masters and apprentices for two players and a GM.
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2017-07-29, 03:23 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2017
Re: Low fantasy gaming - your thoughts about this game
Originally Posted by 2D8HP;22241671Since the author of the game [b
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2017-07-29, 05:16 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2009
- Location
- In my library
Re: Low fantasy gaming - your thoughts about this game
It's one of those games where I'm torn between 'I don't like d20' and 'this is actually quite neat'.
There's quite a bit to like about it, although I'm not sure you can say that a game with over 100 pages of rules is the same kind of game as Lasers and Feelings (or HSFD&D, or Fiasco). I personally tend to refer to Fate as rules heavy these days, I just also use 'rules streamlined' because all the rules are pointing towards one thing (conversely GURPS is 'rules diverse').
Then much of it goes against what I personally like, but very little is outright bad. I'm a bit iffy about the 'create your own features', that's going to rely a lot on GM judgement (not inherently a bad thing, but I've met a lot of GMs who would let magic users pick 'summon storm' at level 3 while rejecting anything better than 'lift heavy stuff' for a 9th level Barbarian). I'm also not a fan of spell slots, in my mind they've been obsolete ever since Tunnels & Trolls brought us point-based casting, but there's nothing inherently wrong with them and they encourage players not to blow all their magic on two castings of 'uberspell meteor pummel'.
Also not a massive fan of how hit points are generated, but that's entirely the random rolls aspect.
Just to get some things I like out of the way, the focus on nonmagical classes is really nice, and most of the art is lovely (I think the only piece I outright dislike is the class portrait for magic users). I could see myself using this as a compromise with a D&D-focus group, I run an all mundanes group of this and we can all have fun. No really, my big problem with 5e is how it can be nearly impossible to run a low magic party. The skill system is simple, but the game isn't trying to pretend it's supposed to be as important as your ability scores (which do the heavy lifting in skill checks) but more a way to access the reroll pool, and is a neat enough mechanic.
Giving a price range for equipment is also a neat idea, it stops the problem of standardised prices. I already believe starting equipment should be a compromise between the player and the GM, so the potential difficulty in buying starting gear doesn't bother me. A shame it doesn't extend to weapons.
Also, I have a massive dislike for combat rolls using a completely different system to out of combat rolls. Please unite everything under a single core mechanic, it was first done over four decades ago.
The lingering injuries for becoming mostly dead are also nice, although not something every group will like. Oh, the same goes for the 'Dark and Dangerous Magic' system, I like my magic difficult but not dangerous.
Now despite there being a lot in there I don't like, it's still a very well put together game. I just don't see myself running this if I have the ability to run Keltia instead (which I significantly prefer, down to in-campaign advancement being a 'spend XP on skills and stats' system while generation is more guided). I'd happily play it, give me a Barbarian, Fighter, or Thief and I'll mock the party magic user for needing a crutch when steel is all an adventurer needs.
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2017-07-29, 05:55 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2017
Re: Low fantasy gaming - your thoughts about this game
I pretty much agree with every point you raise, Anonymouswizard.
For the art, there's at least one additional piece that I find troublesome. There's a woman with a head that's wider than her waist ...
As for the difference between out of combat rolls (BRP-style roll under your ability) and in combat rolls (D&D style add d20 to ability, hit target value) I'm thinking that that's maybe an easy house rule. For ability checks, just roll d20+ability and try and hit 21 (i.e., roll over 20). Not extremely elegant, but perhaps still an improvement.
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2017-07-29, 06:07 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2015
Re: Low fantasy gaming - your thoughts about this game
Hi all, Steve G here the author of LFG. More than happy to answer any questions :)
Low Fantasy Gaming RPG - Free PDF at the link: https://lowfantasygaming.com/
$1 Adventure Frameworks - RPG Mini Adventures: https://www.patreon.com/user?u=645444
Midlands Low Magic Sandbox Setting - https://lowfantasygaming.com/2017/12...x-setting-pdf/
GM Toolkits - Traps, Hirelings, Blackpowder, Mass Battle, 5e Hardmode, Olde World Loot http://www.drivethrurpg.com/browse/p...Fantasy-Gaming
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2017-07-30, 06:23 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2017
Re: Low fantasy gaming - your thoughts about this game
Yeah, I had a question here.
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2017-07-31, 05:22 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2015
Re: Low fantasy gaming - your thoughts about this game
Low Fantasy Gaming RPG - Free PDF at the link: https://lowfantasygaming.com/
$1 Adventure Frameworks - RPG Mini Adventures: https://www.patreon.com/user?u=645444
Midlands Low Magic Sandbox Setting - https://lowfantasygaming.com/2017/12...x-setting-pdf/
GM Toolkits - Traps, Hirelings, Blackpowder, Mass Battle, 5e Hardmode, Olde World Loot http://www.drivethrurpg.com/browse/p...Fantasy-Gaming
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2017-07-31, 06:49 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2010
- Location
- Slovakia
- Gender
Re: Low fantasy gaming - your thoughts about this game
The system itself is all right - if d20 is your thing. It sort of does something similar to E6, but in a more focused, thought out way.
What bothers me about it is that there was zero research into what weapons and armor actually look like and what they cost. Wooden shields without covering, swords shaped in a way that would make them dangerous to the wielder, bad helmets all around and the less said about that full plate the better. What bothers me much more are the prices though, some highlights include polearms more expensive than swords, long bow twice the price of the short bow and more expensive than a crossbow and 1 gp for a sling.
Also, no such thing as splinted armor.
My biggest problem with it is that its only niche seems to be the d20 people who want something with less magic than DnD 3.5, and even then, it has a problem of being very, very rules-heavy. Sure, many books are even longer than this, FATE Core clocks in at 300, but those contain advice for playing characters and creating adventures (FATE Accelerated is 50 pages with just rules).
If you don't mind learning what is essentially a new system, you may be better off with something geared specifically towards what you want to play (numerous systems for Conan as well as GoT/ASoIaF), if you do, you'll likely not take it up in the first place.That which does not kill you made a tactical error.
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2017-07-31, 07:59 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2009
- Location
- In my library
Re: Low fantasy gaming - your thoughts about this game
Yeah. While there is a niche out there for a generic low fantasy system, I think it'll have to be something even more generic than this (or possibly less generic), and likely not d20. Heck, I want a good low magic system.
Oh, for the record, FAE still has several pages of advice, it's just that Fate Core is essentially a hacker's guide, outlining how the default works and giving advice on how to change it. I'd estimate only about 20-30% of Core is actual rules.
I think this would have done really well as rules light. Strip the d20 combat rules down to a single side of A4, have a side or two of gear, and limited the classes to two sides of A4 each. An attempt to squeeze this low fantasy into a small number of pages.
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2017-08-01, 12:20 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2015
Re: Low fantasy gaming - your thoughts about this game
Low Fantasy Gaming RPG - Free PDF at the link: https://lowfantasygaming.com/
$1 Adventure Frameworks - RPG Mini Adventures: https://www.patreon.com/user?u=645444
Midlands Low Magic Sandbox Setting - https://lowfantasygaming.com/2017/12...x-setting-pdf/
GM Toolkits - Traps, Hirelings, Blackpowder, Mass Battle, 5e Hardmode, Olde World Loot http://www.drivethrurpg.com/browse/p...Fantasy-Gaming
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2017-08-01, 03:52 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2010
- Location
- Slovakia
- Gender
Re: Low fantasy gaming - your thoughts about this game
It sort of depends on what you consider rules. Barebones FATE Core would probably fit on something like 10 pages, but add skill explanations, examples, extras, stunt examples and it grows pretty fast.
180 pages isn't rules light, not when it is all rules and tables, I'd consider it to be just about the standard length. DnD 3.5 PHB is 170 pages, and it has most of the rules you need to play in it. The ultimate rules light systems are things like Window, but that's taking it a bit too far.That which does not kill you made a tactical error.
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2017-08-01, 04:08 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2009
- Location
- In my library
Re: Low fantasy gaming - your thoughts about this game
Lasers and Feelings is a page long (and shows just how rules light you can go, you only have one numbered trait). Fate Accelerated (FAE) is 50 pages (although the 'core' Fate book is ~300 pages). I'm not sure how long PbtA games are, but they tend to be thinnish. Can we please stop pegging D&D as the standard.
180 pages of rules is heavier than the Vortex System (Rocket Age has 157 pages of rules, if you include the GMing Advice), Mongoose Traveller 1e (177 pages of rules), Keltia (135 pages of rules), and quite a few rules medium games. My general rule is that if it takes over 100 pages to tell someone the rules it's definitely rules medium (and I'm iffy on 50 pages as rules light). I tend to peg rules heavy at 300-400 page corebooks, but that doesn't mean there aren't 200-300 page rules heavy games.
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2017-08-01, 04:37 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2015
Re: Low fantasy gaming - your thoughts about this game
Well LFG for classes and how to play inc combat, is about 60 pages. Then it's spell descriptions and monsters and GM tables for the rest. Compared to 3e PHB/DMG/MM (about 800 pages) I consider it light. But compared to Laser or Window etc obviously it isnt, but I would call those games super lite. Hmm on reflection I would probably call LFG rules medium.
Low Fantasy Gaming RPG - Free PDF at the link: https://lowfantasygaming.com/
$1 Adventure Frameworks - RPG Mini Adventures: https://www.patreon.com/user?u=645444
Midlands Low Magic Sandbox Setting - https://lowfantasygaming.com/2017/12...x-setting-pdf/
GM Toolkits - Traps, Hirelings, Blackpowder, Mass Battle, 5e Hardmode, Olde World Loot http://www.drivethrurpg.com/browse/p...Fantasy-Gaming
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2017-08-01, 05:36 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2009
- Location
- In my library
Re: Low fantasy gaming - your thoughts about this game
Yeah, and with all the systems I mentioned I was counting spell descriptions and GM advice as well, and generally monster/NPC rules. Consider that Fate, which is sometimes called rules light (more often called rules medium) can be pared down to 50 pages without much trouble (and switching to A4 paper you'd likely hit 30 pages).
All in all, I'd peg LFG as about as complex as Victoriana, it's not the heaviest system in the world but there's a lot of stuff. It's certainly no GURPS (500 pages of core rules), but it's not exactly light compared to most of the industry. I'd have estimated rules medium as well, although I'm sure someone will disagree.
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2017-08-01, 08:43 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2014
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2017-08-01, 09:34 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2009
- Location
- In my library
Re: Low fantasy gaming - your thoughts about this game
About A5 in my experience. All the physical books and pdfs are in a size a bit different from your average paperback book. I'd estimate it as about half the area of a standard RPG book page (which tend to be slightly shorter than A4, dammit America it's the standard international size), but don't quote me on that.
We should probably get off the topic of paper sizes, or I'm going to start complaining about how every single character sheet leaves about an inch and a half of unused space when printed on A4 paper. It gets even worse when they have borders (Qin: the Warring States has a horrible character sheet which only uses two thirds of the side of A4 for character information, because of the massive border). I know most companies are American, but international standards exist for a reason.
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2017-08-01, 10:26 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2015
- Location
- Right behind you!
- Gender
Re: Low fantasy gaming - your thoughts about this game
I've found that there are about as many different lines drawn between lite/medium/heavy rules as there are people defining them.
Besides the length of the core book, much of the difference seems to be whether someone includes content (spell descriptions/monsters/various starships/classes etc.) or just the rules themselves. Also - it varies depending upon what games that person has both played in general and what they started with.
Myself - I'd argue that even 3.x is only about a 6 or 7/10 because it's an exception based system, so you only need to learn a fraction of the rules to play. (exception based makes it FAR easier to learn, though arguably a bit harder to master)
About the only thing that all of them agree on is that GURPS is heavy. Also - I'd say that Anima is nearly as heavy as GURPS.
Though I've seen someone argue that it wasn't because he can run for people who never read the rules - but that has to do with GURPS generally being a system where PCs don't actively interact with the rules rather than it being anything but really heavy.
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2017-08-01, 11:00 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2009
- Location
- In my library
Re: Low fantasy gaming - your thoughts about this game
True, I also base it on how generic the rules are. One of the things I love about Lasers and Feelings is that it shows that at the end of the day all the crunchy science fiction rules I love aren't needed, you can just have one number that tells you how good you are at 'lasers' and 'feelings'.
Myself - I'd argue that even 3.x is only about a 6 or 7/10 because it's an exception based system, so you only need to learn a fraction of the rules to play. (exception based makes it FAR easier to learn, though arguably a bit harder to master)
For the record 'flexible mechanics' here means 'the mechanics aren't specific, they work in every situation', like Fate's Permissions (and never fully spelt out denials) and Invoking.
About the only thing that all of them agree on is that GURPS is heavy. Also - I'd say that Anima is nearly as heavy as GURPS.
Though I've seen someone argue that it wasn't because he can run for people who never read the rules - but that has to do with GURPS generally being a system where PCs don't actively interact with the rules rather than it being anything but really heavy.
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2017-08-19, 04:51 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2015
Re: Low fantasy gaming - your thoughts about this game
A short & sweet 5 minute video review of LFG by Skinner Games:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFjLKINBSEoLow Fantasy Gaming RPG - Free PDF at the link: https://lowfantasygaming.com/
$1 Adventure Frameworks - RPG Mini Adventures: https://www.patreon.com/user?u=645444
Midlands Low Magic Sandbox Setting - https://lowfantasygaming.com/2017/12...x-setting-pdf/
GM Toolkits - Traps, Hirelings, Blackpowder, Mass Battle, 5e Hardmode, Olde World Loot http://www.drivethrurpg.com/browse/p...Fantasy-Gaming
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2017-11-06, 06:57 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2015
Re: Low fantasy gaming - your thoughts about this game
Six city maps for the Midlands (including blank versions for folks to edit themselves): https://lowfantasygaming.com/2017/11/06 ... -midlands/
Low Fantasy Gaming RPG - Free PDF at the link: https://lowfantasygaming.com/
$1 Adventure Frameworks - RPG Mini Adventures: https://www.patreon.com/user?u=645444
Midlands Low Magic Sandbox Setting - https://lowfantasygaming.com/2017/12...x-setting-pdf/
GM Toolkits - Traps, Hirelings, Blackpowder, Mass Battle, 5e Hardmode, Olde World Loot http://www.drivethrurpg.com/browse/p...Fantasy-Gaming
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2017-12-01, 03:08 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2015
Re: Low fantasy gaming - your thoughts about this game
High Res Midlands Map (Free download): https://lowfantasygaming.com/2017/11...-map-download/
Mini adventure #32 - Cultists in Crow's Keep: https://lowfantasygaming.com/2017/12...in-crows-keep/
Midlands Low Magic Sandbox Setting PDF via DTRPG: https://lowfantasygaming.com/2017/12...x-setting-pdf/Low Fantasy Gaming RPG - Free PDF at the link: https://lowfantasygaming.com/
$1 Adventure Frameworks - RPG Mini Adventures: https://www.patreon.com/user?u=645444
Midlands Low Magic Sandbox Setting - https://lowfantasygaming.com/2017/12...x-setting-pdf/
GM Toolkits - Traps, Hirelings, Blackpowder, Mass Battle, 5e Hardmode, Olde World Loot http://www.drivethrurpg.com/browse/p...Fantasy-Gaming
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2017-12-01, 07:03 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2009
- Location
- In my library
Re: Low fantasy gaming - your thoughts about this game
A question, have you considered doing a version of the book with the extra classes in it? I'm considering actually plonking down the money for a softcover version if I can work out if Lulu prints copies in Europe (not paying for shipping from America), but if there's a version with the additional classes in it in the works I might hold off on it, as I'm certainly considering using at least the Artificer (what made me consider LFG as potentially worthwhile to run) and Ranger. The monk I'm less sure about, and will depend on the exact tone I end up with. Even just a second PoD book with the extra classes and some other stuff (maybe an alternative form of magic that anybody can use for a price?) would be interesting. No clue if you've had the interest to justify that though.
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2017-12-01, 07:44 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2015
Re: Low fantasy gaming - your thoughts about this game
So currently the 3 extra classes are in the Midlands book, and on the site, but all 8 classes are not amalgamated anywhere. If I end up doing a second edition or something I'll put them all in the core book. It's a possibility, but I'd probably look at some kind of kickstarter for that (the book would already be largely written, so folks would know most of what's coming - but with all the classes together, and some new material as you suggest, + make it full colour art). Not something that would happen anytime soon though.
Low Fantasy Gaming RPG - Free PDF at the link: https://lowfantasygaming.com/
$1 Adventure Frameworks - RPG Mini Adventures: https://www.patreon.com/user?u=645444
Midlands Low Magic Sandbox Setting - https://lowfantasygaming.com/2017/12...x-setting-pdf/
GM Toolkits - Traps, Hirelings, Blackpowder, Mass Battle, 5e Hardmode, Olde World Loot http://www.drivethrurpg.com/browse/p...Fantasy-Gaming
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2017-12-04, 01:22 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2016
- Location
- Back home
- Gender
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2017-12-04, 02:30 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2015
Re: Low fantasy gaming - your thoughts about this game
Low Fantasy Gaming RPG - Free PDF at the link: https://lowfantasygaming.com/
$1 Adventure Frameworks - RPG Mini Adventures: https://www.patreon.com/user?u=645444
Midlands Low Magic Sandbox Setting - https://lowfantasygaming.com/2017/12...x-setting-pdf/
GM Toolkits - Traps, Hirelings, Blackpowder, Mass Battle, 5e Hardmode, Olde World Loot http://www.drivethrurpg.com/browse/p...Fantasy-Gaming
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2017-12-04, 09:18 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2010
Re: Low fantasy gaming - your thoughts about this game
Only usually?
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2017-12-04, 08:00 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2015
Re: Low fantasy gaming - your thoughts about this game
Low Fantasy Gaming RPG - Free PDF at the link: https://lowfantasygaming.com/
$1 Adventure Frameworks - RPG Mini Adventures: https://www.patreon.com/user?u=645444
Midlands Low Magic Sandbox Setting - https://lowfantasygaming.com/2017/12...x-setting-pdf/
GM Toolkits - Traps, Hirelings, Blackpowder, Mass Battle, 5e Hardmode, Olde World Loot http://www.drivethrurpg.com/browse/p...Fantasy-Gaming
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2017-12-05, 04:17 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2010
Re: Low fantasy gaming - your thoughts about this game
Those are awfully vague words coming from the system designer.