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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Orc in the Playground
     
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    Default Is Earthdawn worth tracking down?

    Been reading up on the setting of Earthdawn online, and it sounds like a great world to adventure in!

    What I wanna know is if it's worth the trouble of running an Earthdawn game in-system, or whether refluffing another system like 5e would just be easier and get better results; are there interesting mechanics in Earthdawn that would be difficult to replicate in another system?

    Also, whether the setting book(s) are interesting reads?
    Last edited by kraftcheese; 2017-07-28 at 09:57 AM.

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    Librarian in the Playground Moderator
     
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    Default Re: Is Earthdawn worth tracking down?

    I don't think you necessarily need the Earthdawn system, but I think the closest relative to it that's reasonably available is 4e D&D.

    However, you might take a look on DTRPG. There are two Introductions to Earthdawn, for 1st and 3rd editions for free that might give you a better idea.

    I always found the Earthdawn books worth simply reading through, myself, though. The 1st edition system was pretty clunky in some ways, though.
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    Default Re: Is Earthdawn worth tracking down?

    Huh. I always thought Earthdawn was based off of Shadowrun, and just set 6,000-12,000 years earlier. Maybe I'm remembering something else?
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    Default Re: Is Earthdawn worth tracking down?

    Nope, they share a world.

    Not a system.


    That said, the Earthdawn system is clunky and unbalanced, but quite unique in todays day and age in that it adds different types of dice to roll over a certain target number. The circles adepts (the general term for all the heroes in it) achieve are similar but different enough to/from levels tog et a feeling for the power involved.

    Overall I Enver liked the system, but getting it to another system without losing a LOT of fluff takes tremendous effort (trust me, I tried and gave up^^).


    So to sum it up: the world is simply fantastic (in most senses of the word), the system between sucky and above average. If you value a system and world integration (inGame and OutGame Terms being the same for example) and some uniqueness over ease of use, speed and balance, go for it!
    A neutron walks into a bar and says, “How much for a beer?” The bartender says, “For you? No charge.”

    01010100011011110010000001100010011001010010000001 10111101110010001000000110111001101111011101000010 00000111010001101111001000000110001001100101001011 100010111000101110

    Later: An atom walks into a bar an asks the bartender “Have you seen an electron? I left it in here last night.” The bartender says, “Are you sure?” The atom says, “I’m positive.”

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    Daemon

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    Default Re: Is Earthdawn worth tracking down?

    If you like the idea of the setting, I might recommend the Savage World version of the system, which I believe was an official product.

    I'll agree with some of the others - the world itself is interesting, and the mechanics even have some good ideas, but overall I think the system is clunky and terribly unbalanced. Theoretically I think there's actually a good system in there somewhere, but you're almost certainly better off sticking with something else.

    Just some specific problems I have with the system:

    Instead of classes, you have Disciplines, but there is very little room for customization, so every character of the same discipline ends up feeling very same-ish. When you read the rules, you'll think there's more customization available than their actually is, because each discipline has a very limited number of optional skills you can learn, and you'll quickly realize that there's either an option you need just to be functional, or else one that is just blatantly better than the others.

    The system, at least early to mid, heavily favors melee, and the melee-centric races are simply better than not. I've never played a higher circle (this game's equivalent of levels) game, and I've heard it gets better, but at the beginning the gulf between characters can be massive.

    Nearly everything is based off of skills, but the skill list is simply a mess. The power level of any given skill is all over the place, and there's a large number of redundancies. Nearly every single social skill is interchangeable, having the same effect and just triggering in slightly different scenarios. Since most of them can be triggered all the time, that means it's pointless to double up. But since the disciplines require you to take certain skills, it means a charisma character often has multiple skills which are more or less pointless.

    The magic - again, at least at low-mid circle - is simply a joke. The system is based on at-will skill check based casting, but it seems the devs were scared this might overpower it, so they went in the opposite direction. Often, before you can cast a spell, you must gather a thread. So while the melee character attacks two rounds in a row, you spend your first round weaving a thread, and the second round casting. Except if you fail to weave a thread the first round, in which you'll need to try again the second round. I have often either experienced or seen a character spend three rounds to get off a spell that did *almost* as much damage as the melee character had done in a single round.

    Also on the magic, there is a very limited number of spells you can have prepared at a time, with either a difficult skill check or large amount of time required to switch these out. Since many of the spells are very specific in their usage, you rarely have the luxury of having anything other than the most generic attack and buff spells ready.

    Alright, I know that's a lot of disparaging, but in a lot of ways I'm only harsh because it disappoints. If the product line had been more popular, if it had another addition or two to iron out the wrinkles, I think it could have really been something. Unfortunately, as it stands, I can't really recommend it unless you and your group are really willing to work together to iron out the worst of the problems, or just have a high degree of tolerance for the ones I raised. Or just go with the Savage Worlds version, which honestly does a decent enough job of maintaining the flavor of the system while bringing it into a system that, even if it has its own faults, certainly has less than Earthdawn does.

    Edit: Apparently the SW version is not well regarded. If you're familiar with Savage Worlds, I might still recommend that version, as I have a feeling fixing it with house rules would probably be easier than fixing the Earthdawn system.
    Last edited by daemonaetea; 2017-07-28 at 10:19 PM.

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    Default Re: Is Earthdawn worth tracking down?

    Thanks for all the feedback folks!

    I think I'm gonna try and track down some of the sourcebooks, cuz the fluff seems like a lot of fun and if I do get to run a game, I think I'll just do it in the world of Earthdawn but in another system.
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    Default Re: Is Earthdawn worth tracking down?

    Try the Core Rulesbook first.

    Maybe you`ll like the rules, and as I said, transferring Earthdawn to another system WELL is really hard.

    And just "using fluff and playing with another system" will remove quite some of its unique fluff/world details, as they interface well with the rule set.

    Good Luck!. :)
    A neutron walks into a bar and says, “How much for a beer?” The bartender says, “For you? No charge.”

    01010100011011110010000001100010011001010010000001 10111101110010001000000110111001101111011101000010 00000111010001101111001000000110001001100101001011 100010111000101110

    Later: An atom walks into a bar an asks the bartender “Have you seen an electron? I left it in here last night.” The bartender says, “Are you sure?” The atom says, “I’m positive.”

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    Default Re: Is Earthdawn worth tracking down?

    Hiya! Long time Earthdawn player and GM, and (full disclosure) I have worked with Fasa on some of the recent Earthdawn 4E Companion material.

    We have really updated the CoreStep ruleset for the new 4th Edition of Earthdawn (& Fasa's new game #1879). Many of the exact problems with the crunchy side of the system that were brought up in this thread have been addressed. The three big changes are: 1) re-done Discipline advancement that incorporates "Optional Talents" (an optional mechanic from 3E that was made core). 2) No more "Success Level Table". This cuts out a table lookup _required on every roll_ in previous editions. Now, you get "extra successes" for every 5 points you score above the target number. Most "extra successes" grant +2 to the following Effect roll (Damage, etc). 3) The new extra success mechanic has been woven into and through the whole system (with overlapping talents combined into one, and spells revamped to have more 0 thread spells and the ability to "overweave" a spell for extra effects such as additional targets, extra range, etc, etc).

    I can recommend a few links to get you in to the setting and current rules.

    First, I really recommend the "Live from Barsaive" podcast. They do a "Tour of Earthdawn" and have a few side-episodes dedicated to rules and character creation. Great stuff: lavamonkeygames.com/livefrombarsaive/

    Also, we should have Earthdawn 4E Quickstart material done by (or just after) GenCon this year. Please check our forums for announcements (fasagames.com/forum/). There's plenty of discussion of the current editions mechanics over on the forums, and even a quick preview of my new Airship & Riverboat combat rules.

    You can also check out our line developer's blog (Josh Harrison, aka Mataxes): fasagames.com/category/earthdawn/
    And the lead mechanic developer's personal gaming blog (Morgan Weeks, aka Panda): pandagaminggrove.blogspot.com/
    Last edited by Telarus; 2017-08-02 at 07:48 PM.

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    Daemon

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    Default Re: Is Earthdawn worth tracking down?

    Just thought I'd confirm I played 2nd and 3rd edition before. The changes to 4th edition do sound like very positive steps, and I'll definitely have to pick it up and give it a try.

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    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Is Earthdawn worth tracking down?

    Quote Originally Posted by daemonaetea View Post
    Just thought I'd confirm I played 2nd and 3rd edition before. The changes to 4th edition do sound like very positive steps, and I'll definitely have to pick it up and give it a try.

    Good timing too, the core book pdfs are 50% off on the Fasa Games site shop or DriveThruRPG.com.
    Last edited by Telarus; 2017-07-30 at 10:49 PM.

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    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: Is Earthdawn worth tracking down?

    I am currently playing a 4th edition game.

    The 4th edition has smoothed out some of the bugs mentioned above.

    Melee is still a go to thing but warriors have been pinned back a bit to make the other classes shine a little brighter.

    You can now have two people in the same discipline (class) and have them go in different directions, e.g. A Con Man Thief would play different to a knife fighter thief.

    I really do like the world / disciplines and system how everyone is magic and how names are important. As well as providing lots of reason in games to go raid old ruins for stuff.

    If you are going to be spending money I would suggest giving 4th edition a look.
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    Default Re: Is Earthdawn worth tracking down?

    Quote Originally Posted by Telarus View Post
    Good timing too, the core book pdfs are 50% off on the Fasa Games site shop or DriveThruRPG.com.

    Hmmm, might give it a try then first time since second Edition ^^...
    A neutron walks into a bar and says, “How much for a beer?” The bartender says, “For you? No charge.”

    01010100011011110010000001100010011001010010000001 10111101110010001000000110111001101111011101000010 00000111010001101111001000000110001001100101001011 100010111000101110

    Later: An atom walks into a bar an asks the bartender “Have you seen an electron? I left it in here last night.” The bartender says, “Are you sure?” The atom says, “I’m positive.”

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    Default Re: Is Earthdawn worth tracking down?

    I'm actually listening to the Live From Barsaive podcast; thanks for getting me onto it folks! I'm starting with the "Crash Course" episodes first and the hosts seem pretty likeable and fun!
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    SolithKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Is Earthdawn worth tracking down?

    Quote Originally Posted by GrayDeath View Post
    Nope, they [Shadowrun & Earthdawn] share a world.

    Not a system.

    ...

    So to sum it up: the world is simply fantastic (in most senses of the word), the system between sucky and above average.
    Even if they don't share a system, they seem to share the conclusions about them.

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    Default Re: Is Earthdawn worth tracking down?

    Interestingly yes, but for entirely different reasons (SR is basically a good, simple system bloated by huge amounts of dice necessary and lots of optional stuff) that, aside from some details, is pretty generic.

    Earthdawn is pretty unique systemwise, and integrates it very well into the world, but is clunkier and (pre 4th, not read it yet) extremely unbalanced.
    A neutron walks into a bar and says, “How much for a beer?” The bartender says, “For you? No charge.”

    01010100011011110010000001100010011001010010000001 10111101110010001000000110111001101111011101000010 00000111010001101111001000000110001001100101001011 100010111000101110

    Later: An atom walks into a bar an asks the bartender “Have you seen an electron? I left it in here last night.” The bartender says, “Are you sure?” The atom says, “I’m positive.”

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    Default Re: Is Earthdawn worth tracking down?

    The map's pretty easy. Barsaive's the Ukraine. The Blood Wood (formerly Wyrm Wood) is Chernobyl (Ukranian for Wormwood, now surrounded the Red Forest).

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    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Is Earthdawn worth tracking down?

    Yup! I actually stitched together all of the 1st edition maps in Adobe Illustrator (and another fan then annotated most of my place-makers). It is much more apparent when you see the whole map that it is the area around the Black Sea (my map was used as a model for the painted 4th Edition map also).


    "Annotated Atlas of Barsaive": https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B52...N6RHBfX0U/view

    Mod Note: I editted this to make it an actual link, since Telarus is new enough to not have linking privileges, yet, but nice to have around if we're talking Earthdawn. Butt-kicking for goodness!
    Last edited by LibraryOgre; 2017-08-04 at 09:29 AM.

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    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Is Earthdawn worth tracking down?

    If you like your rules to be arcane and over-compicated, if you like your melee fighters to secretly be wizards, if you like blurred lines between magic and mundane, if you like having multiple different magic systems all under the same roof, if you like the high fantasy of d&d mixed with the bone-melting (literally...there's a spell for that) and mind-bending horror of H.P.Lovecraft, with a dash of magi-technological wonder, if you don't care about things like "class balance" and "fair encounters", if you like the idea that awesomeness in the rules is tied to the awesomeness of deeds in the game (not just rolling high numbers on some dice), if you want to play as an orc or troll and don't want the social stigma you'd get in other fantasy games, if you want to play a lizardfolk in a system that got them right...you might like Earthdawn.

    It's not for everyone, but Earthdawn (once you wrap your head around it) is a beautiful setting with a lot to be said in its favour. Pre-4e (haven't played it), the rules are a mess though; a lot of cross-referencing, looking up specific effects or rules and so forth. Almost zero unified mechanics. If you like arcane rules, though, all you need to do is find some other players who do too!
    I apologise if I come across daft. I'm a bit like that. I also like a good argument, so please don't take offence if I'm somewhat...forthright.

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    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Is Earthdawn worth tracking down?

    Earthdawn's real claim to fame is that it has a setting that does a very good job of justifying the conceits of Dungeons and Dragons in-world. There are actual reasons why you can go out into the wilderness and find a dungeon that is full of horrible demons and deadly traps. The mechanics are ... not great, and the setting is not an especially radical departure from the norm as far as fantasy settings go, but if be able to say why there is a castle just outside town that is full of flaming zombies is important to you, Earthdawn has some pretty good answers for you.

    Here's a good review of the first edition of the game.

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    Default Re: Is Earthdawn worth tracking down?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cosi View Post
    Earthdawn's real claim to fame is that it has a setting that does a very good job of justifying the conceits of Dungeons and Dragons in-world. There are actual reasons why you can go out into the wilderness and find a dungeon that is full of horrible demons and deadly traps. The mechanics are ... not great, and the setting is not an especially radical departure from the norm as far as fantasy settings go, but if be able to say why there is a castle just outside town that is full of flaming zombies is important to you, Earthdawn has some pretty good answers for you.

    Here's a good review of the first edition of the game.
    Yeah from reading about it, the ideas of the Horrors and the kaers and the way PCs levelling up and stuff is fueled by a kind of magic do integrate the tropes of D&D into something coherent; also the fact that, like in Shadowrun, all the orcs, elves, etc. are humans mutated by magic, explaining why they can have kids together.
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    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Is Earthdawn worth tracking down?

    News from Gencon 2017.

    The Earthdawn 4E Quickstart is LIVE:
    fasagames.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_102_128_1 03&products_id=1144

    Comments, questions, errata notes? Have At (in this thread):
    www .fasagames.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=394

    [Mahalo(thanks) to the mods for fixing the other links.]
    Last edited by Telarus; 2017-08-17 at 05:04 PM.

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    BardGuy

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    Default Re: Is Earthdawn worth tracking down?

    Earthdawn does a better job than most games blending flavor and mechanics. (As well as just having great flavor)
    Pro: that means that the system and setting are really fun to learn about
    Con: The mechanics aren't optimized for ease of play in the same way that something like 5e is.

    It's not that mechanics are hard to resolve, you won't need to look up six modifier tables like in some systems, but your players will have a lot of abilities at their disposal and it's important that they keep track of them. Lazy players who just want to say: 'I want to do X, what do I roll for that?' are going to drag things down more than they do in other systems.

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