Results 1 to 9 of 9
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    OldWizardGuy

    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Vancouver <-> Dublin
    Gender
    Male

    Default Harmful divination spells

    Along the lines of the Giant's divination attack spells.

    These spells do not allow saving throws or spell resistance - you aren't attacking your enemies directly, instead you're revealing horrible truths to them. To balance them, the spells have long casting times and other drawbacks.

    Mad Seer's Grasp
    Divination
    Level: Bard 4, Clr 4, Knowledge 4, Madness 4, Sor/Wiz 4
    Components: V, S, F
    Casting Time: 1 round
    Range: Touch
    Target: Creature grappled
    Duration: Instantaneous
    Saving Throw: None
    Spell Resistance: No

    You channel a prescient and malevolent extraplanar entity through your own body. Once possessed, you grasp a foe close with unnatural strength and whisper knowledge of their impending doom to them.

    Make a grapple attempt against a foe within reach. You provoke an attack of opportunity and must make a melee touch attack, as normal for a grapple attempt. Your grapple check to establish a hold for this attempt is equal to your caster level (maximum +15) + your relevant spellcasting ability modifier (Charisma for bards and sorcerers, Intelligence for wizards, and Wisdom for clerics) + your size modifier. If you fail to establish a hold, the spell fails.

    If you establish a hold, you seize your opponent by the arm or the like and gaze fiercely into their eyes, intoning a terrible fate that you have foreseen for them. The horror of this moment overwhelms your opponent and they die instantly.

    If there is no foe within reach when you complete the casting, you may take one move action before making a grapple attempt. If there is still no foe within reach after the move, the spell fails and your turn ends. Regardless of whether or not there was a foe within reach or whether or not you established a hold, you are fatigued for the remainder of the encounter.

    This is not a mind-affecting effect. The entity you channel speaks through you in an raving gibber that is somehow intelligible to any creature with a language. Creatures immune to non-magical fear are immune to this spell.

    Focus
    A tattered beggar's garments or other ruined attire, which you must be wearing (they may be magical but the base cost of the clothes themselves must be less than 1 cp).

    Oracle's Menace
    Divination
    Level: Bard 5, Clr 5, Knowledge 5, Madness 5, Sor/Wiz 5
    Components: V, S, M
    Casting Time: 1 round
    Range: Personal
    Target: You
    Duration: 10 min./level (D)

    You gain a preternatural knowledge of the ills that await your foes in future, and by making allusions to their fates you are all the more frightening. You gain a +30 bonus on Intimidate checks.

    Whenever you make an Intimidate check to change anotherís behaviour, the effect lasts for as long as the target remains in your presence and for one hour per caster level afterward.

    Whenever you make an Intimidate check to demoralise an opponent in combat, the target is shaken for the remainder of that encounter. You may make multiple such attempts against the same creature and the effects stack (up to the panicked condition).

    Material Component
    A bottle of poisonous spring water costing 10 gp, the fumes of which you inhale.

    Prophecies of Doom
    Divination
    Level: Bard 6, Clr 8, Knowledge 8, Madness 8, Sor/Wiz 8
    Components: V, S, M
    Casting Time: 1 round
    Range: 40 ft.
    Area: Creatures in a 40-ft.-radius spread centered on you
    Duration: 1 round/level; see text
    Saving Throw: None
    Spell Resistance: No

    Your eyes roll back in your head, you foam at the mouth, and you utter prophecies of unspeakable horror that drive all who witness them to madness.

    Upon casting the spell all creatures within range that can see or hear your ravings suffer Wisdom drain each round equal to 1d6+1 per caster level (maximum 1d6+25). To avoid the drain for a given round a creature must spend a full-round action covering its ears and averting its eyes (or otherwise obscuring its senses).

    For the duration of the spell you are forced to do little but utter the prophecies (a full-round action). You may take a 5-foot step each round but are blind and deaf for the duration of the spell due to your uncontrollable fit (this protects you from your own prophecies). You may not end the spell voluntarily.

    The prophecies are sufficiently frightening that even mindless creatures are susceptible to this effect, but not creatures that are immune to non-magical fear. You utter the prophecies in a strange tongue that is intelligible to all listeners, and your gesticulations convey the same meaning to any who can see them.

    Material Component
    A striped toadstool (costing 180 gp) or other hallucinogenic edible, which you consume (making Fortitude saving throws as necessary).
    Last edited by rferries; 2017-07-29 at 03:37 AM.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Orc in the Playground
     
    AOKost's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2014

    Default Re: Harmful divination spells

    Roasting Bacon, combine Detect Evil with Call Lighting or something similar XD

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    OldWizardGuy

    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Vancouver <-> Dublin
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Harmful divination spells

    Quote Originally Posted by AOKost View Post
    Roasting Bacon, combine Detect Evil with Call Lighting or something similar XD
    I'm sure this is a reference to something but it's going over my head :D

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Orc in the Playground
     
    AOKost's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2014

    Default Re: Harmful divination spells

    It was a Meme, showing a tree getting hit by lightning XD it was alluded that there was an assassin or someone evil in the tree...

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    OldWizardGuy

    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Vancouver <-> Dublin
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Harmful divination spells

    Ohhh haha I see.

    EDIT: Found it!
    Last edited by rferries; 2017-08-19 at 03:37 PM.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Orc in the Playground
     
    AOKost's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2014

    Default Re: Harmful divination spells

    Quote Originally Posted by rferries View Post
    Ohhh haha I see.

    EDIT: Found it!
    YES!! XD I love that meme! And I've always thought it was a good idea ;) I love sell development but few DMs allow it fearing players will instantly create something way too OP to allow. I always wanted to create improved Magic Missile spells for my characters (It's always been one of my favorite spells... I love Force Missile Mage (I prefer the 10 level homebrew I found, but can't find atm), and Abjurant Savant... Then go into something like Incantantrix or Archmage.... I love being able to change the damage type of Magic Missile! But I guess most think it's too OP to have 1 spell every 2 or 3 levels that is a virtual auto-hit... But then you'd also have to make Force Missile Mage's abilities scale with those spells too... But that's why I liked the 10 level homebrew I found so much. It included "improved" versions of the spell in the class...

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    OldWizardGuy

    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Vancouver <-> Dublin
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Harmful divination spells

    Quote Originally Posted by AOKost View Post
    YES!! XD I love that meme! And I've always thought it was a good idea ;) I love sell development but few DMs allow it fearing players will instantly create something way too OP to allow. I always wanted to create improved Magic Missile spells for my characters (It's always been one of my favorite spells... I love Force Missile Mage (I prefer the 10 level homebrew I found, but can't find atm), and Abjurant Savant... Then go into something like Incantantrix or Archmage.... I love being able to change the damage type of Magic Missile! But I guess most think it's too OP to have 1 spell every 2 or 3 levels that is a virtual auto-hit... But then you'd also have to make Force Missile Mage's abilities scale with those spells too... But that's why I liked the 10 level homebrew I found so much. It included "improved" versions of the spell in the class...
    Ha indeed! Magic missile spam abuse. :D

  8. - Top - End - #8

    Default Re: Harmful divination spells

    The spells are a bit broken as you take the normal magic rules and toss them out the window and then apply random other rules to the spells. It's the ultimate ''gotcha'' type rules as others will be using the standard rules like saving throws and spell resistance and your tossing out ''haha, this spell uses the Skill Use rope to 'tie' your life in knots and kill your character!''


    *Mad Seer's Grasp- Exhibit A. This spell is a grapple or die effect? Talk about weird. Grappling is a hard thing to do, unless your character is built for it. A grapple check of even +20 at 15th level is pretty low. For like a 15th character spellcaster trying to grapple say a Fire Giant or a Barbed Devil, might as well not bother. so chances are unless you target a weak foe, like a 3rd level commoner, your not going to make both a grapple and a hold and then do the broken auto kill effect.

    Worse is after 10th level or so, this spell becomes much less effective as 'kill' does not work against lots of powerful creatures, as they ''can't be killed''.

    And it's not mind effecting...but it is...and if your immune to ''mundane fear'' this spell has no effect? Yet it is not a Fear type spell. You don't mention it...but the spell would also be a Gaze attack and folks without sight would be immune, right? I guess your thinking that the ''grapple'' is holding the targets eyes open, right?

    This spell needs a big rewrite to be a straight forward gaze attack that allows a save and spell resistance and is mind effecting and fear type magic and has more the effects of confusion (though maybe a bit more crazy).

    *Oracle's Menace is first off way too high a level for 'just' a +30 to one skill check. It could really be 3rd. Otherwise this one is fine.

    *Prophecies of Doom- Exhibit B, like 20 points of Wisdom damage a round with no save or spell resistance, but people can ''go beyond the rules'' and just ''say they cover the themselves''. And the spell is ''so scary'' that even mindless creatures are effected, but not creatures immune to fear...but yet again it's not a fear effect....or a mind effecting effect(but it is).

    And even as poorly written as it is, this spell is silly. Like the spellcaster casts the spell and stands their ''projecting'', but people can just say ''oh we cover up'' and wait a couple rounds and it is over.

    Again, this spell needs a rewrite to the normal rules. Like doing applies a 3d6 penalty to the target's Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores. This penalty can't reduce any of these scores below 1 and can only effect a target once. And being mind effecting, and have a save and spell resistance.

    It would seem you like broken spells that don't follow the rules. And while that sounds great, the question to ask yourself is: Would you like to play in a game full of such spells? Like if you had a character with normal, by-the-rules defenses and protections like say vs fire, and the DM hit your character with a Fame Fire spell. You sit back, thinking the game your playing uses the normal rules and your character will get a save, spell resistance and your protections will work against it. But then the DM goes ''haha, gotcha!'' this spell does fire damage but it ''burns your fame'' and we don't follow any of the normal rules and that is 100d100 fire damage and the only way to avoid the damage is to put your left foot in a bucket of water....ahahahahahaha.

    Does that really sound like like a fun game to you?

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    OldWizardGuy

    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Vancouver <-> Dublin
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Harmful divination spells

    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Ultron View Post
    The spells are a bit broken as you take the normal magic rules and toss them out the window and then apply random other rules to the spells. It's the ultimate ''gotcha'' type rules as others will be using the standard rules like saving throws and spell resistance and your tossing out ''haha, this spell uses the Skill Use rope to 'tie' your life in knots and kill your character!''


    *Mad Seer's Grasp- Exhibit A. This spell is a grapple or die effect? Talk about weird. Grappling is a hard thing to do, unless your character is built for it. A grapple check of even +20 at 15th level is pretty low. For like a 15th character spellcaster trying to grapple say a Fire Giant or a Barbed Devil, might as well not bother. so chances are unless you target a weak foe, like a 3rd level commoner, your not going to make both a grapple and a hold and then do the broken auto kill effect.

    Worse is after 10th level or so, this spell becomes much less effective as 'kill' does not work against lots of powerful creatures, as they ''can't be killed''.

    And it's not mind effecting...but it is...and if your immune to ''mundane fear'' this spell has no effect? Yet it is not a Fear type spell. You don't mention it...but the spell would also be a Gaze attack and folks without sight would be immune, right? I guess your thinking that the ''grapple'' is holding the targets eyes open, right?

    This spell needs a big rewrite to be a straight forward gaze attack that allows a save and spell resistance and is mind effecting and fear type magic and has more the effects of confusion (though maybe a bit more crazy).

    *Oracle's Menace is first off way too high a level for 'just' a +30 to one skill check. It could really be 3rd. Otherwise this one is fine.

    *Prophecies of Doom- Exhibit B, like 20 points of Wisdom damage a round with no save or spell resistance, but people can ''go beyond the rules'' and just ''say they cover the themselves''. And the spell is ''so scary'' that even mindless creatures are effected, but not creatures immune to fear...but yet again it's not a fear effect....or a mind effecting effect(but it is).

    And even as poorly written as it is, this spell is silly. Like the spellcaster casts the spell and stands their ''projecting'', but people can just say ''oh we cover up'' and wait a couple rounds and it is over.

    Again, this spell needs a rewrite to the normal rules. Like doing applies a 3d6 penalty to the target's Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores. This penalty can't reduce any of these scores below 1 and can only effect a target once. And being mind effecting, and have a save and spell resistance.

    It would seem you like broken spells that don't follow the rules. And while that sounds great, the question to ask yourself is: Would you like to play in a game full of such spells? Like if you had a character with normal, by-the-rules defenses and protections like say vs fire, and the DM hit your character with a Fame Fire spell. You sit back, thinking the game your playing uses the normal rules and your character will get a save, spell resistance and your protections will work against it. But then the DM goes ''haha, gotcha!'' this spell does fire damage but it ''burns your fame'' and we don't follow any of the normal rules and that is 100d100 fire damage and the only way to avoid the damage is to put your left foot in a bucket of water....ahahahahahaha.

    Does that really sound like like a fun game to you?
    Thank you for your candour. I totally get your point about these spells not matching the rules of most other spells, I just liked the idea of divination spells revealing inexorable truths rather than being death magic or mind-affecting effects. They may need Will saves as you imply, but I really was hoping to match flavour with function.

    1. I attempted to balance the Grasp spell against Phantasmal Killer. Phantasmal Killer can be used at range but allows 2 saves; the Grasp must be used in melee and furthermore requires a grapple check. It's "broken" in the same way that Killer (low-level death spell) or Irresistible Dance/Power Word: Kill are broken (no-save spells).

    It's intended to work against higher-level creatures (save those immune to nonmagical fear) as it lacks the death & mind-affecting descriptors; though it's limited by the cap on the grapple check.

    It's not intended as a gaze attack or language-dependent effect, though of course it would be simpler just to give it those descriptors.

    I admit it's an awkward spell overall; I based it on the Shakespearean soothsayers that emerge to foretell doom ("Beware the ides of March!"), though in this case the doom comes instantly during combat. I wanted it to be a touch attack, but since I also wanted it to avoid the traditional saves (in keeping with my divination theme) I ended up employing the grapple rules.

    2. Oracle's Menace was based off of Glibness, a 3rd-level Bard spell and therefore a 4th-level spell for most other classes. Bumped it up an additional level because of it's broader utility (and set it as a 5th-level even for bards for flavour reasons).

    3. Prophecies of Doom can be thought of as a limited shapechange into a medusa or bodak or similar creature with a gaze attack, except that the gaze is both more powerful (Wisdom drain that can't be mitigated by magic) and less powerful (can be avoided by devoting one's turns to "covering up", and takes up the caster's actions). IF your enemies don't know what's coming and IF your allies are forewarned (again, without alerting your enemies) yes you can deal loads of Wisdom drain, but Horrid Wilting is often a safer bet.

    Again, I deliberately wanted to avoid the fear/mind-affecting descriptors -the idea was that the subjects know with 100% certainty that you're speaking the truth in all its Lovecraftian glory :D (rather than creating "fake" fear with magic). The goal was that creatures shouldn't be immune by virtue of their type, only if they were "brave" enough to withstand the horror (read: specifically immune to nonmagical fear, rather than fear effects).

    You make a good point about whether or not these spells are fun in how they follow the rules... I felt at least people might enjoy playing specialist diviners in combat (and to go back to the Giant's original point, it would justify Divination having two banned schools). I'd really like to avoid adding the conventional spell descriptors; would the spells be more balanced if they required you to make Intimidate checks to impose the death/Wisdom drain?

    Plus if it helps, paladins are immune to nonmagical fear so they'd escape all these spells unscathed. :D

    Thanks again for your criticism!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •