Personal Woes and Advice 5

[WarKitty]

Well there's aren't specific "adult children" resources aside from standard "adult" resources. I mean all adults are SOMEONE's children. I imagine there are family therapists though that deal with adult children and their relationships with their parents. In terms of financial helps/shelter wouldn't that just be a standard homeless shelter though? I would hope an abusive home life would be sufficient for you to get into one of those rather than them saying something like "no you have to stay at your parents' house". That said, I have heard that in a lot of the US the social safety net is pretty poor.

There are shelters and organizations that deal with people who are in abusive situations, but pretty much all of them say they only deal with partner abuse. Same with any sort of support group - you can only find a support group if you're dealing with a partner, but not a parent, and it's not generally something that you can find therapists aimed at. And like standard abuse between partners, normal therapy tends to be very very bad.

I'm lucky I managed to find a place when I did. When I talked to the shelters, they basically didn't have much. The problem was you had to show up at the shelter at a certain time and leave at a certain time, no matter what. Same thing with most food resources, you have to show up on their schedule. This really only works if you're unemployed.

[Chen]

There are shelters and organizations that deal with people who are in abusive situations, but pretty much all of them say they only deal with partner abuse. Same with any sort of support group - you can only find a support group if you're dealing with a partner, but not a parent, and it's not generally something that you can find therapists aimed at. And like standard abuse between partners, normal therapy tends to be very very bad.

This probably depends more on area. But yes, resources specifically for that will be significantly less common. Presumably as you said, because adult children can just leave.

I'm lucky I managed to find a place when I did. When I talked to the shelters, they basically didn't have much. The problem was you had to show up at the shelter at a certain time and leave at a certain time, no matter what. Same thing with most food resources, you have to show up on their schedule. This really only works if you're unemployed.

Yeah most homeless shelters tend to assume you have no job else you'd be living somewhere. Food banks on the other hand are much less restrictive around here since I guess they realize people can have a home and job but still not make enough to eat well enough. I mean realistically it comes down to the ridiculous cost of medical treatment in the US. Without needing to worry about that, a minimum wage job will still get you out on your own. Perhaps far from comfortable, but at least surviving.

[Florian]

@Warkitty

Google a bit and try to understand how a "shame"-based culture works and that this is not necessarily the norm in what we deem the "western culture" to be like.

[AMFV]

I mean, maybe, but also like I've found the second sort of reply gets you a lecture on how you really should make more time for your family. You're a bad person who's working too much and doesn't spend time with her parents.

"Yeah, I know, I've been meaning to make time." Then change the subject, either to their family or weather or sports or something along the lines of that. Basically you're giving too much information for water cooler talk. All those peeps, they probably have family problems too, maybe even worse than yours, they're just masking it. Because that si what is socially expected at work. You aren't supposed to air dirty laundry there.

I think some of the awkwardness is that family is considered safe water cooler talk. So it's really not at the level where people want to hear more, but at the same time it's at the level where it becomes really obvious and awkward if you're avoiding the subject. And that's bad and that invites people to pry because you're being weird and different.

So don't avoid the subject, just touch on it. Or talk about your dad, who you don't have these problems with, or talk about things with your family that aren't related to these problems. Again water cooler talk is not for airing for serious problems, and if you start doing that it will reflect more poorly than if you were socially awkward and avoiding talking about things.

I've also noticed overall that when it comes to actual resources, there's resources for (minor) children dealing with parents, and there's resources for people dealing with partner violence. But the overall attitude is still that adult children can't need help, and I was specifically told there were no resources for me. Like, when I actually tried to see if there was any sort of financial help or shelter if I needed it, the answer was no because adult children can just leave if there's any issue.

That would be regular therapy honestly. Like what resources do you need, you're on your own, as far as I recall. You aren't financially dependent on them, and there's plenty of resources for people who need money because they can't afford to live on their own. I mean I don't see that there's a need for specific resources outside of cases of actual abuse.

As far as the ex...again, there's a lot of social navigation. You've been going to the same events, and you don't really have separate friend groups, so realistically you can either tell people, you can just stop talking to all your friends, or you can keep seeing him at everything.

So you're asking your friends to side against this person, who is their friend, who are accusing of something. And not only take your side, but not invite him to anything where you will be, and presumably not socialize with him again. They are obviously not going to do that without at least considering his side, I mean he is also their friend, not just you. So they have to consider the possibility that you might be the one is being crappy. Even if you aren't, it wouldn't be a good thing for them just to cut him out of their lives at just your word. That's why they would want evidence, you're asking them to cut him out, so yeah, they'd want to know.

[WarKitty]

"Yeah, I know, I've been meaning to make time." Then change the subject, either to their family or weather or sports or something along the lines of that. Basically you're giving too much information for water cooler talk. All those peeps, they probably have family problems too, maybe even worse than yours, they're just masking it. Because that si what is socially expected at work. You aren't supposed to air dirty laundry there.

So don't avoid the subject, just touch on it. Or talk about your dad, who you don't have these problems with, or talk about things with your family that aren't related to these problems. Again water cooler talk is not for airing for serious problems, and if you start doing that it will reflect more poorly than if you were socially awkward and avoiding talking about things.

I guess I've found that the most common response to socially awkward people is to try to bring them out of their shell and figure out what it is that they're avoiding. So you end up with direct questions that you can't answer without either lying or being extremely rude.

That would be regular therapy honestly. Like what resources do you need, you're on your own, as far as I recall. You aren't financially dependent on them, and there's plenty of resources for people who need money because they can't afford to live on their own. I mean I don't see that there's a need for specific resources outside of cases of actual abuse.

Wasn't sure about that for a while - I didn't know if I could make it long enough to get enough money to be on my own without being kicked out or being forced to move out for my own mental health. And the answer was basically "there are no such resources available." And I've honestly found regular therapy has the same issue that you're basically going to have to spend hours going over how you've tried everything possible to work things out and get told more ways to give the same person an opportunity to hurt you.

Therapy is known to be pretty bad in cases like this, unless you have someone who is specialized in dealing with this sort of situation. It's the same problem you get when it's 2 partners - things that work great when you have 2 people who are willing to work things out are an opportunity to get hurt when you have one person who doesn't want to work anything out.

So you're asking your friends to side against this person, who is their friend, who are accusing of something. And not only take your side, but not invite him to anything where you will be, and presumably not socialize with him again. They are obviously not going to do that without at least considering his side, I mean he is also their friend, not just you. So they have to consider the possibility that you might be the one is being crappy. Even if you aren't, it wouldn't be a good thing for them just to cut him out of their lives at just your word. That's why they would want evidence, you're asking them to cut him out, so yeah, they'd want to know.

I mean, the problem is the end result is "ok, so you broke up with the guy who repeatedly sexually assaulted you and threatened you. Now you have to also either put up with interacting with him pleasantly on a regular basis or completely dump every single friend you have at a time when you don't have the time or energy to make new friends."

[WarKitty]

Just to be clear: I'm not complaining about people actually listening and making decisions. I'm talking about getting snap judgments where it ends up being whoever's better at using social rules that aren't designed for these sorts of things is right, rather than judgments being made on what's actually going on, and having constant pressure to pretend to a lie or do elaborate, exhausting social dances to avoid the topic because that's the only thing that's considered socially acceptable.

I've also observed that even in environments where sharing intensely personal problems is acceptable, there seems to be a specific taboo on criticisms that could be deemed rude, especially towards parents. So it's not just a case of too much information.

[AMFV]

I guess I've found that the most common response to socially awkward people is to try to bring them out of their shell and figure out what it is that they're avoiding. So you end up with direct questions that you can't answer without either lying or being extremely rude.

That's why the answers I gave were vagaries. Like "yeah I should spend more time with them, but I've been so busy, huh?" And they can then appreciate that you're frustrated with lousy shifts and lousy hours because they are experiencing the same thing. That's the core of this, you move into an area of conversation that's safe for everybody and they all can participate in.

I suspect the problem is that having come from a really dysfunctional household in terms of emotional boundaries, you may or may not have been taught about what is an acceptable social boundary in terms of what can be discussed with varying levels of acquaintance. The trick is not to act like you're being evasive the trick is to act like there's nothing really to talk about, and since you aren't living with your mom anymore there probably isn't anything new in terms of things that your coworkers would care about.

Wasn't sure about that for a while - I didn't know if I could make it long enough to get enough money to be on my own without being kicked out or being forced to move out for my own mental health. And the answer was basically "there are no such resources available." And I've honestly found regular therapy has the same issue that you're basically going to have to spend hours going over how you've tried everything possible to work things out and get told more ways to give the same person an opportunity to hurt you.

Well I think that a therapist is likely to want to offer solutions, in your case, you needed to leave. So that would have been the appropriate suggestion. I mean what do you want here, they can't force your parents to listen to anybody, the way they could you were a minor. And involving third parties directly is usually a lot worse.

Therapy is known to be pretty bad in cases like this, unless you have someone who is specialized in dealing with this sort of situation. It's the same problem you get when it's 2 partners - things that work great when you have 2 people who are willing to work things out are an opportunity to get hurt when you have one person who doesn't want to work anything out.

As somebody who has been a victim of severe emotional abuse in a relationship I could not easily leave, like you could leave by moving out, I had to leave by divorce, I'll let you guess which is worse. That is bullcrap. Therapy is not "Known to be pretty bad in cases like this", individual therapy, with an unspecialized person is the reason that I am alive, because my ex-wife had be really close to that edge. And it definitely helped.

I mean, the problem is the end result is "ok, so you broke up with the guy who repeatedly sexually assaulted you and threatened you. Now you have to also either put up with interacting with him pleasantly on a regular basis or completely dump every single friend you have at a time when you don't have the time or energy to make new friends."

The problem is that they're going to want evidence that their friend actually did those things before removing him from all of their social circles and contacts. And in this case, that's no an unreasonable ask. Since, at least in my experience sometimes after breakups, women are not entirely honest about that sort of thing. I've seen accusations that were later recanted, I've been accused of things as a means of emotional manipulation. It does happen and that's why the rules have evolved like they have. I mean it sucks to be in your position, but you're asking a lot of them, and I think it's maybe unreasonable to ask that of people. Especially if they don't know what you know about the situation.

Just to be clear: I'm not complaining about people actually listening and making decisions. I'm talking about getting snap judgments where it ends up being whoever's better at using social rules that aren't designed for these sorts of things is right, rather than judgments being made on what's actually going on, and having constant pressure to pretend to a lie or do elaborate, exhausting social dances to avoid the topic because that's the only thing that's considered socially acceptable.

What you are describing as "elaborate, exhausting social dances," is what's normally called small talk, it's what people do to talk about stuff around the water cooler without getting into dangerous areas. I mean there are all kinds of things that you can't say around a water cooler, and specifics about parental neglect or abuse is definitely one of them.

Edit: Also you're assuming that because they went with a hung jury in terms of your ex, rather than a conviction that they aren't listening they might be listening and sympathetic but not agree entirely with everything you've said.

I've also observed that even in environments where sharing intensely personal problems is acceptable, there seems to be a specific taboo on criticisms that could be deemed rude, especially towards parents. So it's not just a case of too much information.

I think the problem is that A.) You're not realizing that parental abuse is a whole 'nother level of personal. Like the only environment I can think of where sharing that earnestly is okay is with a priest or a therapist. Like outside of making jokes about getting your ass beat when you were a kid, it isn't acceptable socially to talk about that. I mean outside of Priest, Al Anon meetings, and Therapy, that's it for discussing your parental abuse stuff. Oh, and with a very close significant other.

I think that there is a specific taboo about specific kinds of personal information that are deemed to be not appropriate even in most "intensely personal problem" sharing sessions.

[WarKitty]

What you are describing as "elaborate, exhausting social dances," is what's normally called small talk, it's what people do to talk about stuff around the water cooler without getting into dangerous areas. I mean there are all kinds of things that you can't say around a water cooler, and specifics about parental neglect or abuse is definitely one of them.

What makes it exhausting for me is the sense of "you have this horrible personal secret that you can never ever share and it makes you a BAD PERSON if you share it." There are a lot of small talk questions that would be innocent in a normal situation but completely cannot be answered without revealing some pretty messed up stuff.

Having to constantly figure out how to not answer very common questions isn't something that people with normal lives have to deal with in small talk.

As somebody who has been a victim of severe emotional abuse in a relationship I could not easily leave, like you could leave by moving out, I had to leave by divorce, I'll let you guess which is worse. That is bullcrap. Therapy is not "Known to be pretty bad in cases like this", individual therapy, with an unspecialized person is the reason that I am alive, because my ex-wife had be really close to that edge. And it definitely helped.

See for me, individual therapy has been universally the thing that's pushed me to neglect taking care of myself and basically pushed me to the point where I repeatedly wanted to kill myself. Pretty much every time I have been in therapy has pushed me into rapid destabilization and basically just wanting to die because of how awful the experience was. And I've been to a lot of therapists. The general experience I've had is that when it comes to parents, there's a very strong push towards it can't be that bad and giving more and more advice on how to patch things up and neglecting your own emotional well-being.

(Also, leaving when you're not sure if you're going to be able to actually afford the medicine you need to work if you do, and when you've basically been told you're not eligible for any help? Not as easy as you think. I'm still terrified that one medical issue could break me and there's nothing I could do to stop it, and the prevailing idea is that since my family would help I can't get anything else. Plus I didn't know if I'd even have a safe place to stay, since I was told I couldn't stay at any shelter or anything, and I didn't know what would happen when I told her I was moving out.)

I suspect the problem is that having come from a really dysfunctional household in terms of emotional boundaries, you may or may not have been taught about what is an acceptable social boundary in terms of what can be discussed with varying levels of acquaintance.

Maybe, but it's also the sense...in my house, you pretended everything was fine no matter what, because having negative thoughts or emotions about your parents makes you a bad person. And then you go out into the world and it's the exact same pattern repeated. Other people get to talk about personal problems, but you better keep up the act that everything is fine or you're a bad ungrateful child, even in places where people freely talk about similar experiences at the hands of romantic partners.

And I'm really not kidding about therapy - I'd say a significant part of the mental problems I've had in my life and the results were a direct result of being in therapy and how traumatic an experience it is.

[Glass Mouse]

I'm miserable at work.

Spoiler: spoilered for length

Show

It's not even a bad place to work. My colleagues are generally nice people, management is reasonably ambitious, they're chill about work-life balance, they're creating mostly interesting products that serve to make society a tiny bit better.

My specific job is just also mostly unsupervised, keeps shifting technologies, hasn't been deployed to production yet due to (understandably) low prioritization, is made up of a tiny team neither of whom I've managed to befriend (two other people, both lovely, both very different from me - and also currently forming a strong friendship with each other). I'm hired to be a specialist, except no one cares about the things I can actually do and keep asking for my input on things I have literally zero experience in. I have no mentoring despite being very junior. I think my closest colleague is growing irritated with me - at least he's becoming increasingly unwilling to chat about our weekends and join me for a coffee run and other colleague-y things. I do have a pretty good rapport with a bunch of other people who all work on other teams and whom I therefore hardly ever have a reason to talk to. Everything is very team-focused, and everyone always travel in packs. I guess if I were more extraverted or more shameless, I'd just barge into their conversations at lunch, but... I don't know, it's just hard and exhausting to have to do that every day, and so far neither of them seem to feel any desire to seek me out, again understandably as they all have established packs. I work slowly (due to being junior) and receive basically no feedback, neither good nor bad, so I feel like I'm floundering. It's a reasonably ambitious project, so I think I'm expected to master twenty years of technology already, and I just... can't. Or maybe it's totally okay that I'm borderline useless at work, but then why do people keep coming to me for advice on things I know nothing about? There's a miscommunication somewhere in the management line about this, very obviously, but I don't know how to fix that outside of telling people on an ad-hoc basis. My boss is so disconnected from my everyday work that so far nothing has changed.
I'm tired. I feel useless and superfluous and lonely, and I've spent the past year pushing for opportunities, asking for feedback, continuously seeking out people to socialise with, and I'm just so very very very tired of having to work hard on this all the time. I want to work hard on the actual work. I don't want to work to motivate and direct myself. I get enough of that with my depression management.

I need to find something else. The largest problem is that this has gone on for long enough that I've basically convinced myself that I'm the problem, and so... What would a new job change? I'd just go be useless and unlikable somewhere else, which basically only helps out my current workplace who'd be free to hire someone who can actually do the work.

But that's the jerkbrain talking. I do know I need to go job hunting. And that I need to be diligent about organisation structure the next time around. The problem is clear. The solution is doable. It just feels daunting.

[Chen]

What makes it exhausting for me is the sense of "you have this horrible personal secret that you can never ever share and it makes you a BAD PERSON if you share it." There are a lot of small talk questions that would be innocent in a normal situation but completely cannot be answered without revealing some pretty messed up stuff.

Thing is, it doesn't make you a bad person. People may act like that but they're in the wrong. It may be socially awkward of you to share in in certain circumstances (like at the water cooler) but it still doesn't make you a bad person.

(Also, leaving when you're not sure if you're going to be able to actually afford the medicine you need to work if you do, and when you've basically been told you're not eligible for any help? Not as easy as you think. I'm still terrified that one medical issue could break me and there's nothing I could do to stop it, and the prevailing idea is that since my family would help I can't get anything else. Plus I didn't know if I'd even have a safe place to stay, since I was told I couldn't stay at any shelter or anything, and I didn't know what would happen when I told her I was moving out.)

Acknowledged as a problem with US healthcare. The not being able to get into a homeless shelter seems odd though. I mean they don't generally care what the circumstances of you not having a home are, just that you need shelter to sleep at. Now, for the ones that have hours to conflict with your personal work schedule that's a separate issue. If I recall you work nights which I imagine makes most homeless shelters a real problem to get into. I'm not sure what solution exists for that even in places where the social safety net is more robust.

Maybe, but it's also the sense...in my house, you pretended everything was fine no matter what, because having negative thoughts or emotions about your parents makes you a bad person. And then you go out into the world and it's the exact same pattern repeated. Other people get to talk about personal problems, but you better keep up the act that everything is fine or you're a bad ungrateful child, even in places where people freely talk about similar experiences at the hands of romantic partners.

I mean your family situation this attitude is understandable with how you've presented your parents. That's not a common or general sentiment. Non-dysfunctional families don't judge you as a bad person just for having negative feelings towards them, provided there is justification for those feelings. Now, the fact you're seeing this outside everywhere is a little more peculiar. I've only stated my experience which doesn't match, and some others have said similar but perhaps we are the outliers here. That said my suspicion is that it isn't the case. I've never had anyone close to me show that type of judgement and I've had plenty of friends/family complain or criticize their families.

And I'm really not kidding about therapy - I'd say a significant part of the mental problems I've had in my life and the results were a direct result of being in therapy and how traumatic an experience it is.

Again through everything I've heard this is the exception rather than the rule. It doesn't negate your point; therapy doesn't seem to work for you. But it works for many many people and hence the general suggestions for it and why public resources tend to be allocated to this, if anything for some issues.

[Bartmanhomer]

I'm miserable at work.

Spoiler: spoilered for length

Show

It's not even a bad place to work. My colleagues are generally nice people, management is reasonably ambitious, they're chill about work-life balance, they're creating mostly interesting products that serve to make society a tiny bit better.

My specific job is just also mostly unsupervised, keeps shifting technologies, hasn't been deployed to production yet due to (understandably) low prioritization, is made up of a tiny team neither of whom I've managed to befriend (two other people, both lovely, both very different from me - and also currently forming a strong friendship with each other). I'm hired to be a specialist, except no one cares about the things I can actually do and keep asking for my input on things I have literally zero experience in. I have no mentoring despite being very junior. I think my closest colleague is growing irritated with me - at least he's becoming increasingly unwilling to chat about our weekends and join me for a coffee run and other colleague-y things. I do have a pretty good rapport with a bunch of other people who all work on other teams and whom I therefore hardly ever have a reason to talk to. Everything is very team-focused, and everyone always travel in packs. I guess if I were more extraverted or more shameless, I'd just barge into their conversations at lunch, but... I don't know, it's just hard and exhausting to have to do that every day, and so far neither of them seem to feel any desire to seek me out, again understandably as they all have established packs. I work slowly (due to being junior) and receive basically no feedback, neither good nor bad, so I feel like I'm floundering. It's a reasonably ambitious project, so I think I'm expected to master twenty years of technology already, and I just... can't. Or maybe it's totally okay that I'm borderline useless at work, but then why do people keep coming to me for advice on things I know nothing about? There's a miscommunication somewhere in the management line about this, very obviously, but I don't know how to fix that outside of telling people on an ad-hoc basis. My boss is so disconnected from my everyday work that so far nothing has changed.
I'm tired. I feel useless and superfluous and lonely, and I've spent the past year pushing for opportunities, asking for feedback, continuously seeking out people to socialise with, and I'm just so very very very tired of having to work hard on this all the time. I want to work hard on the actual work. I don't want to work to motivate and direct myself. I get enough of that with my depression management.

I need to find something else. The largest problem is that this has gone on for long enough that I've basically convinced myself that I'm the problem, and so... What would a new job change? I'd just go be useless and unlikable somewhere else, which basically only helps out my current workplace who'd be free to hire someone who can actually do the work.

But that's the jerkbrain talking. I do know I need to go job hunting. And that I need to be diligent about organisation structure the next time around. The problem is clear. The solution is doable. It just feels daunting.

If you're unhappy at your job then maybe you should go find another job that you feel passionate about. I know that some people feel bored about a job that they feel repetitive and dull. But in your case you should go pursue a job that you feel happy about.

[ve4grm]

I'm miserable at work.

Spoiler: spoilered for length

Show

It's not even a bad place to work. My colleagues are generally nice people, management is reasonably ambitious, they're chill about work-life balance, they're creating mostly interesting products that serve to make society a tiny bit better.

My specific job is just also mostly unsupervised, keeps shifting technologies, hasn't been deployed to production yet due to (understandably) low prioritization, is made up of a tiny team neither of whom I've managed to befriend (two other people, both lovely, both very different from me - and also currently forming a strong friendship with each other). I'm hired to be a specialist, except no one cares about the things I can actually do and keep asking for my input on things I have literally zero experience in. I have no mentoring despite being very junior. I think my closest colleague is growing irritated with me - at least he's becoming increasingly unwilling to chat about our weekends and join me for a coffee run and other colleague-y things. I do have a pretty good rapport with a bunch of other people who all work on other teams and whom I therefore hardly ever have a reason to talk to. Everything is very team-focused, and everyone always travel in packs. I guess if I were more extraverted or more shameless, I'd just barge into their conversations at lunch, but... I don't know, it's just hard and exhausting to have to do that every day, and so far neither of them seem to feel any desire to seek me out, again understandably as they all have established packs. I work slowly (due to being junior) and receive basically no feedback, neither good nor bad, so I feel like I'm floundering. It's a reasonably ambitious project, so I think I'm expected to master twenty years of technology already, and I just... can't. Or maybe it's totally okay that I'm borderline useless at work, but then why do people keep coming to me for advice on things I know nothing about? There's a miscommunication somewhere in the management line about this, very obviously, but I don't know how to fix that outside of telling people on an ad-hoc basis. My boss is so disconnected from my everyday work that so far nothing has changed.
I'm tired. I feel useless and superfluous and lonely, and I've spent the past year pushing for opportunities, asking for feedback, continuously seeking out people to socialise with, and I'm just so very very very tired of having to work hard on this all the time. I want to work hard on the actual work. I don't want to work to motivate and direct myself. I get enough of that with my depression management.

I need to find something else. The largest problem is that this has gone on for long enough that I've basically convinced myself that I'm the problem, and so... What would a new job change? I'd just go be useless and unlikable somewhere else, which basically only helps out my current workplace who'd be free to hire someone who can actually do the work.

But that's the jerkbrain talking. I do know I need to go job hunting. And that I need to be diligent about organisation structure the next time around. The problem is clear. The solution is doable. It just feels daunting.

Spoiler

Show

I don't have much specific advice for this, but I can maybe help you feel better about it?

First off, regarding the closest colleague, it seems more likely that he's withdrawing due to dealing with his own issues, rather than being irritated with you. I know I can withdraw from things when I'm not doing great in my own life. So unless he says something specific, I'd not worry about it, give him space, and hopefully things return to normal.

As an introvert with anxiety issues, I feel your pain. I have one friend in the office (on another team), and he's a friend solely because I went to school with him and became friends back then. I'm friendly enough with my direct coworkers, but we aren't in any way friends outside of working together. It took my a long time to realize that this is fine. I'd personally recommend trying to build up the friendships in the other teams. Nothing so direct as butting into their conversations, but maybe asking them casually if they want to grab lunch out somewhere that day? Or just sitting at their table during lunch, even if you don't participate in the conversation. Think back to elementary school - the first thing you did to become friends was sit together in class or at lunch.

Regarding feeling useless - again, I've been there. Lack of feedback just makes it worse. One thing I had to drill into my head over the years has been: "Most people's expectations of you are reasonable."
Whenever I've felt that I'm not keeping up, or not doing as much as I should, generally nobody else was even concerned about it. Their expectations were never as high as the ones I set myself.

Jerkbrain is hard to fight. I have my own, and it's a pain. The biggest thing to remember, just hammer it into your head, is that if you're doing your best, then people will generally be happy, even if you aren't.

Also, generally, no feedback is good feedback. This one is harder - I don't always accept it myself - but it's true. Think about, say, Yelp reviews. They'll always skew negative, because people with favourable opinions don't feel the need to comment. It's the same in life. Unless you ask for it, positive feedback will often just be nothing getting said.

Good luck in your job hunt. Even if I think your jerkbrain is wrong about some of the situation at your current job, a change can often be just what is needed to reset your self-criticism. I've had to do that myself, too.

[Jormengand]

Spoiler: TW Suicide and probably other stuff?

Show

I hurt most of my friends last night when I had a breakdown.

Finally got my mental health appointment, and it's solved nothing. They basically spent most of the time wondering if all my problems were caused by my gender and/or sexual preferences.

I just want to die at this point, but I don't have the strength even to do that properly.

And I can't talk about it because every time I do, I hurt someone else.

I feel like I can't face anyone I know again.

I can barely even face myself.

Quick, put in a paragraph break for dramatic effect! Ah, I'm pathetic. I swear I've already called myself out on that before, too, so I can't even pretend it's ironic humour.

I'm a monster and worthless.

What's the most painless way to go? I don't know. But I know that if I had deadly poison next to me, I'd drink it.

What the hell am I meant to do when I seek help and the help just shrugs its shoulders?

[2D8HP]

Spoiler: TW Suicide and probably other stuff?

Show

I hurt most of my friends last night when I had a breakdown.

Finally got my mental health appointment, and it's solved nothing. They basically spent most of the time wondering if all my problems were caused by my gender and/or sexual preferences.

I just want to die at this point, but I don't have the strength even to do that properly.

And I can't talk about it because every time I do, I hurt someone else.

I feel like I can't face anyone I know again.

I can barely even face myself.

Quick, put in a paragraph break for dramatic effect! Ah, I'm pathetic. I swear I've already called myself out on that before, too, so I can't even pretend it's ironic humour.

I'm a monster and worthless.

What's the most painless way to go? I don't know. But I know that if I had deadly poison next to me, I'd drink it.

What the hell am I meant to do when I seek help and the help just shrugs its shoulders?

You're not a monster and you're very far from worthless.

I value your posts and want them to continue, please.

[Jormengand]

You're not a monster and you're very far from worthless.

I value your posts and want them to continue, please.

Why? What have I ever made or done that could offset all the hurt, all the loss, all the suffering I've caused?

[2D8HP]

Why? What have I ever made or done that could offset all the hurt, all the loss, all the suffering I've caused?

Other than some worry about your happiness because I value you, you have never caused me any hurt, loss, or suffering.

Ever.

[Jormengand]

Other than some worry about your happiness because I value you, you have never caused me any hurt, loss, or suffering.

Ever.

It's a pity that the people who know me in reality can't say the same.

[Form]

Spoiler: TW Suicide and probably other stuff?

Show

I hurt most of my friends last night when I had a breakdown.

Finally got my mental health appointment, and it's solved nothing. They basically spent most of the time wondering if all my problems were caused by my gender and/or sexual preferences.

I just want to die at this point, but I don't have the strength even to do that properly.

And I can't talk about it because every time I do, I hurt someone else.

I feel like I can't face anyone I know again.

I can barely even face myself.

Quick, put in a paragraph break for dramatic effect! Ah, I'm pathetic. I swear I've already called myself out on that before, too, so I can't even pretend it's ironic humour.

I'm a monster and worthless.

What's the most painless way to go? I don't know. But I know that if I had deadly poison next to me, I'd drink it.

What the hell am I meant to do when I seek help and the help just shrugs its shoulders?

Your friends will be fine. Any damage done can be repaired in time and chances are they'll understand if they know what you're going through. Is there at least one close friend that you can confide in about this if you haven't done so already? Do so and lean on them for support.

The most important thing is to keep seeing a mental health professional. Problems aren't going to go away after a single appointment. It will be a part of long and difficult process, but getting through that will be worth it and you have to keep at it. Is it possible to see a different therapist if the current one is no good? Also, is there a suicide hotline available where you live? Call them when you're having suicidal thoughts.

[Mith]

Why? What have I ever made or done that could offset all the hurt, all the loss, all the suffering I've caused?

While I do not possess the the eloquence of 2D8HP, one thing to remember is that monsters do not give a damn. That's why they are monsters.

You care. That does count for something.

I do not know what advice to offer that will help, but I do urge to try the mental help if they are setting up a regular schedule. Their help was never going to fix it all in the hour. As far as the suicidal thoughts go, the purpose of your local suicide hotline is to help you with this.

If you are going to have a regular schedule with the mental health services, if you think it would help you, see if they can give you questions that you could answer between sessions to help with moving the next session along.

[Florian]

It's a pity that the people who know me in reality can't say the same.

Wait and see.

First, be advised to go at therapy with the right outlook and expectations. Therapy can´t heal you, it can´t make you a healthy person, change you or make the hurt/despair go away. The only thing it can do is show you where the cracks are, where you are doing things out of habit (to yourself and others) and lay bare to you how you function, what triggers you and how your internal mechanics work. A good therapist will poke you hard and provoke you hard into reacting, then show you how to handle stuff that are triggered because of who you are. Nothing more, the rest is up to you.

I´ve a history of loss, betrayal and abuse myself, fell down hard and know despair very well, it left its marks and made me who I am. I know that I inflict hurt, harm and loss on those around me on a regular basis, but I know it and my friends know that I know it and they understand me and know that I'm serious when I say "I'm sorry". Strangely, I'm a very popular person and most of my oldest friendships go back for decades.

See, I´ve had a hard time reconciling who I thought I was with who I know I was. Took some time to accept the inherent dichotomy of it and that was the point therapy helped and my friends understood before me. Think about that and good luck to you.

[The Fury]

Right, HalfTangible... you called it. Maybe it's me finally coming down from the endorphine high or just an appraisal of where I'm at, but my emotional problems are back in full force.

I got back to thinking that despite feeling better for a while, the root causes of my problems are still there. From there I feel like things started to snowball. I still feel shame over only having useless talents. I still can't accept that my friends are my friends because they like me, and I still question my ability to be a friend because of it.

This might sound funny coming from someone called "The Fury," but something I learned about myself is that at my core, I'm actually an angry person. I'm ashamed of that too because I don't want to be. I made a councilling appointment, mostly just because I don't know what else to do.

On the plus side, my hand's a lot better. I can almost make a fist again and I think I'll get my stitches out tomorrow.

[HalfTangible]

Right, HalfTangible... you called it. Maybe it's me finally coming down from the endorphine high or just an appraisal of where I'm at, but my emotional problems are back in full force.

I got back to thinking that despite feeling better for a while, the root causes of my problems are still there. From there I feel like things started to snowball. I still feel shame over only having useless talents. I still can't accept that my friends are my friends because they like me, and I still question my ability to be a friend because of it.

This might sound funny coming from someone called "The Fury," but something I learned about myself is that at my core, I'm actually an angry person. I'm ashamed of that too because I don't want to be. I made a councilling appointment, mostly just because I don't know what else to do.

On the plus side, my hand's a lot better. I can almost make a fist again and I think I'll get my stitches out tomorrow.

I'm sorry I was right. Also that your reprieve ended a lot faster =(

If you feel your current skills are worthless or inadequate, you can try learning a new skill or improving on the ones you have.

[WarKitty]

Meh - I suppose I had another thing I could rant about, but...really, I'm way overtired and that's the main problem. This is my last week on the night shift. It's going to be really tight losing the shift bonus, but I'll manage.

[The Fury]

I'm sorry I was right. Also that your reprieve ended a lot faster =(

If you feel your current skills are worthless or inadequate, you can try learning a new skill or improving on the ones you have.

I actually did start going back to school. I worry that I'm not doing all that well though. As for the skills I already have... it's not that I find them inadequate, I'm actually ashamed that I can do them at all. I keep wanting to shut myself down and move on, but I'm not able to. Not completely anyway.

Also, how long did your reprieve last? Just out of curiosity.

[HalfTangible]

I actually did start going back to school. I worry that I'm not doing all that well though. As for the skills I already have... it's not that I find them inadequate, I'm actually ashamed that I can do them at all. I keep wanting to shut myself down and move on, but I'm not able to. Not completely anyway.

Also, how long did your reprieve last? Just out of curiosity.

Couple of months? *shrug* My depression and self-loathing go in and out a lot.

[Lettuce]

Hi. Not sure if this should be here or in the Relationship Woes and Advice thread, because it is about how to handle a specific problem in a relationship (although not a romantic one). And I'm not really sure how to begin, so if I ramble a bit, my apologies in advance. I'll at least spoiler the background info so if you deem it unnecessary, it won't create clutter.

Spoiler: Background

Show

I've been happily married for 3+ years. My husband is a wonderful, hardworking, empathetic man and I love him dearly. This post isn't about him-- it's about his mother.

So we had some of the standard mother-in-law-to-new-wife drama (especially rambling about my physical appearance-- for example, literally her first comments about our wedding photos were how fat I look), probably largely motivated by my "taking her only child away from her" and the usual anxieties. Over the course of these several years, we've mostly moved past that... but she's still the sort of person who tends to voice what's on her mind without any filter. Sometimes this leads to tensions between us (especially when she says something discriminatory), but we've both tried to improve past where we started, and I've gained a bit better of an understanding of her and I suppose I've built up a bit of a tolerance. We went shopping together last week and I'd say that we are on cordial, if slightly distant terms. This post isn't about that past drama, either, but it's potentially a relevant backdrop.

My mother-in-law is an incredibly spiritual (but not religious) person, and she has some... very interesting ideas about the world-- such as most government officials are secretly "reptiles", if you win the lottery it's because the universe thinks you're deserving of it, and that she was various (often terrible) people in past lives. She is skeptical of doctors, and prefers alternative medicine, and she's practiced things like aura-soma-- a type of chromotherapy-- (and other things I don't know the name of, or how to accurately describe) and other pseudosciences. She has one "doctor" that she has an incredible amount of faith in-- a sort of combined therapist and spiritual advisor. Let's call her Dr. Z. She'll be relevant later.

My background: I am from a very traditionally religious family, but I myself am not religious or very spiritual-- and I tend to value science and the scientific method pretty highly. On the whole, I feel like I'm pretty tolerant of alternate viewpoints, even when I don't share them... and as such, despite our rough past history, we've never really had a conflict about this sort of thing specifically.

Until now.

This post is about my mother-in-law's health. She's in her late 60s, is overweight, and has both diabetes and a mild gluten allergy that she constantly flouts to eat food that she likes to her detriment. My husband and I, understandably, worry about her.

Recently, she was diagnosed with a malignant tumor on one of her kidneys. The doctors recommended a minimally invasive surgery to deal with the problem before it gets out of hand. However, she has refused the operation, putting her life at risk, until she talks to Dr. Z, with whom she has a previously scheduled remote appointment (on Skype) several weeks in advance. She intends to follow Dr. Z's recommendation, whatever it ends up being.

Dr. Z is a doctor that she met while living abroad in another country, because her husband's job had them move around a bit. I've never met Dr. Z, but I know that she is a psychotherapist-- and more than that, she seems to be a spiritual advisor and mentor to my mother-in-law. She is one of the few people who essentially has her unwavering trust. My mother-in-law believes that because Dr. Z is a doctor, she will know what to do.

Now if I knew Dr. Z were a reasonable person, I would still be frustrated by the delay and the complications it could create, but rest assured that Dr. Z would inform my mother-in-law that she is not a nephrologist, that she does not have my mother-in-law's medical case files, and that she should listen to the advice of the medical professionals around her. However, I have reason to believe that Dr. Z is NOT a reasonable person.

Dr. Z has previously offered diagnoses about medical matters which she knows little about-- such as, but not limited to, that a large cyst that she had at the time would fade on its own (which it did). At their first meeting, she told my mother-in-law that she believes that the reason that she came to that country was so that they could meet, because she is meant to be her guide. She informed my mother-in-law that in several of her past lives, she and her husband were mortal enemies-- and that this life, they were reborn to attempt to reconcile. There are any number of other things that she has told her, and my mother-in-law absolutely believes them all-- and she has defended Dr. Z angrily and adamantly when I floated my doubts.

My husband and I are, frankly, terrified that Dr. Z will advise his mother not to have the operation, and that we will be unable to convince her to do so, and that she will die. Even if Dr. Z DOES advise her to have the operation, I still feel like this is not a normal patient-doctor relationship, and it bears some sort of... intervention, or something. However, this doctor resides in another country where English is not an official language, and I have no idea how to go about lodging an official complaint with her practice-- or if I even can, given I'm a third-party bystander.

We're at our wits end and don't know what to do or even how to approach the situation. Is this less nuts than it seems, and I'm the one who's off-base? How can we reach out to her effectively?

[Cozzer]

We're at our wits end and don't know what to do or even how to approach the situation. Is this less nuts than it seems, and I'm the one who's off-base? How can we reach out to her effectively?

I wish I had better advice to offer you, but I can at least assure you that this is exactly and utterly as nuts as it seems. Your mother-in-law is in a toxic or abusive relationship, depending on how much "Doctor" Z has to gain from it (there are lots of non-romantic varieties of these, sadly). It's not that different from the stereotypical wife who defends her husband's reasons while he's beating her. Attacking directly from the outside will probably only reinforce her "other people don't understand my special specialness" defense mechanism.

Considering you're on a tight schedule, it's a really screwed up situation... the only thing that comes to mind is to somehow get your mother-in-law declared as "unable to make decisions for herself" or something similar (sorry, I'm from Italy and I don't know the technical English terms...). Then you could force her to undergo actual psychological treatment. But even in the case where that worked in the short term, it would create all sorts of problems in the long term... The cure might be worse than the disease, so to speak.

Sorry. As I said, I wish I had better advice to offer. But I want to reinforce at least that you, your husband and your mother-in-law are the victims here, of someone who (consciously or not) is preying on a weak person's insecureties. Either your mother-in-law makes the decision to get out of that toxic relationship, or you're probably gonna need a lot of force to break her out of it.

EDIT: Oh God, I had missed parts of the background. I'm gonna be cruel, here. In my opinion, your mother-in-law firmly falls into the "cannot be saved" camp. She will never let herself be saved, because what she's actually trying to do is to get you two (well, mostly her son) to drown with her. Don't fall for that, please. I mean, everything I said before about the situation is still valid, but despite being a victim, she's freaking dangerous. Do not start feeling responsible for her actions, or for "not having done enough to help her". I repeat, do not. Do whatever you need to do to avoid that. And I mean whatever you need. I have been involved in similar situations, and the only way to win them is to not have been involved with them in the first place. At least, not emotionally involved. If you can keep being involved in the situation while not feeling any kind of responsibility towards it, then it's ok, but it's harder than it seems.

[ve4grm]

"reptiles"

Wow... uh... I might have to agree with Cozzer here. These sorts of people can't really be reasoned with effectively.

To be blunt, the only people who believe things like "reptilian conspiracy" theories are people who've already decided nothing in this world is trustworthy, and to reject all logic that defies their beliefs. (The spirituality and alternative medicines aren't the same thing at all, and can have benefits (even if they're mostly psychological), but the same force that fuels the "reptilian" beliefs can make it near-impossible to talk to them about their other beliefs. As you found out when you doubted Dr. Z.)

I see two potential ways to get through to her.

1) Through a source that she's decided she trusts. Is her husband still around? Perhaps he can have some impact if you voice your concerns to him? Alternately, your husband (or another of her children if she has any) might be the best bet. She seems to think of you as an outsider, even if you mostly get along. As someone with the sort of distrustful personality that she seems to have, that will bring her to reject your doubts out of hand. She won't even consider them. Her own son, however, might be a more trusted source. And if one of her trusted people (son) disagrees with another (Dr. Z) she might be forced to consider it. But it has to come from him, preferably without you around (sorry), so she can't justify it as him being influenced by an outside force.

This isn't a guarantee, however. If she's decided that Dr. Z is her MOST TRUSTED source, then your husband (or her husband) might get rejected in favour of the doctor.

So we get to:

2) Dr. Z has to be proven to not be worthy of her trust. You probably can't force this (by convincing her that Dr. Z is a reptilian for example). She will reject all attempts. The only thing I can think of that might do this (unfortunately) is for Dr. Z to tell her to refuse the surgery, and her health to deteriorate as the cause. If a direct line can be drawn between the doctor's suggestion, and a bad result, she may be able to question things.

She also may not. She may decide that declining health is the universe's message to her, like winning the lottery would be. She may be willing to die before giving up her belief in this doctor, and her distrust of medicine.

.

I wish you the best of luck with all of this. In the end, she is not incompetent, or lacking the mental capacity to decide her own treatment (UK law is here, of you want to decide for yourself).

As Cozzer said, the most important thing is to not let her drag you down with her. Stay sane, stay safe, and remember that you cannot take responsibility for her decisions. You can express your opinion, and try to convince her, but her actions are her own, and you should not feel like you didn't "do enough".

.

On a "lighter?" note, all I think of whenever I typed "Dr. Z" is the game Borderlands:

Spoiler: Dr Z

Show

[dehro]

Serious stuff

I would suggest that you at least mention what country this "doctor" happens to be practicing/living in.
depending on the country, there could be a number of legal ways to approach this. Not being in this country yourself, you might not be aware of legal actions or maybe other victims starting to come together against the quack.
If this were the case, maybe you can find a way to reach out to them, to authorities or to whomever is actually dealing with this locally.. and find an ally that can either force the "doctor" to actively encourage your mother in law to take matters in her own hands and talk to actual doctors.. or otherwise neutralise the damaging impact this person has (even your mother in law would have to concede that she's being stubborn, if she learns that the "doctor" is in jail for being a con, a fraud and delusional).
Mind you, she will probably take it as a confirmation that the world is run by little green men and the poor doctor is a martyr of the good fight... but it's not like you have anything to lose in that respect.. at worst, you'll have at least put the quack beyond her reach for good.
If it should happen that this is in a country where one of us lives, maybe we can help with translating or reaching out to the proper channels of authority?
Alternatively, or included in this strategy, your husband (and any other family member who is interested/involved) should try and persuade your mother in law to have that famous skype consultation in the presence of family.. under the guise of "you're seriously ill, we are worried and want to hear/learn what the good doctor has to say, so that we can all take this on board and help you do what the doctor suggests".. if this is spinned correctly, the fraud will only be too happy to catch more fish in her net.
It goes without saying that you should do this both to monitor what exactly is being said, to possibly question the suggestions this person gives and, most importantly, to record the conversation so that it can be used as evidence, should this ever turn into a legal matter.
If things go badly your husband should consider to apply to some form of legal disqualification that takes the matter out of his mother's hands and forces her to undergo treatments she badly needs. If she turns out to not be of sound mind, this could help you help her.

[FinnLassie]

I was hit by a car coming at 80km/h (~50mph), and started dissociating pretty heavily. Last night was basically just nightmares. I keep on blaming myself.