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  1. - Top - End - #241
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Personal Woes and Advice 5

    Quote Originally Posted by The Fury View Post
    I was told about a job opening at a company I'd like to work for, it's seasonal with the potential to be permanent. I made the mistake of telling my parents about it, they talked me out of applying. Their basic point is that it would still be poverty wages and therefore a waste of time. I need to "dream bigger" apparently.

    The real bummer is that I'm now on a thought train that's so self-defeating that even if I got an interview, there's no way I'd make a good impression. Even if by some miracle I did land the job, I'd be miserable doing it because I've been told often and hard enough that I should be. Then I'd be unemployed again when the season is up.

    I think this is just symptomatic of the strained relationship I've had with my family for years now. I remember once when I thought it was cool that I can quote some of Hamlet's "Be or not to be" speech and Pablo Neruda's Poem Twenty, (I'm not that good, I'll admit, but decent for someone that's never seriously studied Shakespeare and can't speak Spanish all that well.) I decided I'd demonstrate that skill to my parents, they told me, "See? You're actually smart. Why don't you apply that energy towards something useful?"

    Now I'm actually ashamed that I can quote that stuff from memory. Being smart in a way that's useless sort of makes me wish that I was just dumb.
    here's a thought that might help:
    I imagine by now in oyur life you've tried watching at least 30 tv shows;
    some may've turned out better than you initially thought they would, some worse.
    It can be like that iwth jobs, some will turn out better or worse than you expect them to. and you can't find the ones that turn out to be much better than expected if you don't give them a chance.

    on another note:
    why wish you were dumb? I mean, I can understand feeling down about what they said; but why wish you were dumb, rather than wish you'd focused on more useful knowledge? also, being smart you tend to pick up lots of random knowledge anyways, it just comes with the territory.


    addendum: having job history, ANY job history, is a big help for getting the better jobs. simply having a boss as a reference who can say you reliably showed up to work counts for a lot these days.
    Last edited by zlefin; 2017-10-19 at 10:24 AM.

  2. - Top - End - #242
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    Default Re: Personal Woes and Advice 5

    Also yeah, the idea that dumb people suffer less is one of the falsest stereotypes out there. If you were dumber, you'd still be as distraught as you are, and you would be less able to spot the reasons and take actions to improve your situaiton.

    If you see someone who's dumber than you and seems happier than you, it's usually because he's either better at hiding his pain, or he has some skills that you don't have and that you could acquire along with keeping your intelligence. Or, maybe he's not as dumb as he seems to you, he just has different priorities.

    My point is: it's not that dumber people are happier, it's just that smarter people aren't necessarily happier either. And that feels like an injustice to smart people because nobody teaches us the skills that are actually necessary to be happy. But being smart is useful to learn them, once you accept that you do have to learn them.
    Last edited by Cozzer; 2017-10-19 at 10:30 AM.

  3. - Top - End - #243
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    Default Re: Personal Woes and Advice 5

    Hey everybody. I'm feeling very depressed because a few days ago, One of my Facebook friend who I know at my old childhood school wanted to commit suicide. I try talking to him by one of his post but he was very angry with me and everyone else. I even try on Messenger. One of his ex-friend accuse my friend of harassing and and my friend girlfriend. Last time I heard that the police was at his house. I try talking to him again on Messenger but it was blocked and his Facebook page is gone. I'm really worried about my friend.

  4. - Top - End - #244
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    Default Re: Personal Woes and Advice 5

    Is there any even remotely politic way to say that you might need some time off because your bosses behavior is causing you to have suicidal thoughts? (I'm not actually going to do anything but this is killing me mentally)

  5. - Top - End - #245
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    Quote Originally Posted by Recherché View Post
    Is there any even remotely politic way to say that you might need some time off because your bosses behavior is causing you to have suicidal thoughts? (I'm not actually going to do anything but this is killing me mentally)
    Depends on who you want to say it to. If pick a medical expert and have him certify you're need for a few days off
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  6. - Top - End - #246
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    Default Re: Personal Woes and Advice 5

    I don't think it'd be that quick to a professional to be able to sign off on sick leave due to mental health issues. Probably need to go through some therapy sessions with them first before they'd agree to a medical need for time off.

    Depending on your companies policy and the amount of time, it's probably just easier to "call in sick" for a day or two, if you can.

  7. - Top - End - #247
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    GnomeWizardGuy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bartmanhomer View Post
    Hey everybody. I'm feeling very depressed because a few days ago, One of my Facebook friend who I know at my old childhood school wanted to commit suicide. I try talking to him by one of his post but he was very angry with me and everyone else. I even try on Messenger. One of his ex-friend accuse my friend of harassing and and my friend girlfriend. Last time I heard that the police was at his house. I try talking to him again on Messenger but it was blocked and his Facebook page is gone. I'm really worried about my friend.
    I am sorry to here that. Here is hoping for the best.

  8. - Top - End - #248
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    DrowGuy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mith View Post
    I am sorry to here that. Here is hoping for the best.
    Thank you. I hope he's ok?

  9. - Top - End - #249
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    Quote Originally Posted by zlefin View Post
    here's a thought that might help:
    I imagine by now in oyur life you've tried watching at least 30 tv shows;
    some may've turned out better than you initially thought they would, some worse.
    It can be like that iwth jobs, some will turn out better or worse than you expect them to. and you can't find the ones that turn out to be much better than expected if you don't give them a chance.

    on another note:
    why wish you were dumb? I mean, I can understand feeling down about what they said; but why wish you were dumb, rather than wish you'd focused on more useful knowledge? also, being smart you tend to pick up lots of random knowledge anyways, it just comes with the territory.
    It's not so much that I think dumb people are happier, I mostly just wish that I didn't feel ashamed for knowing stuff related to things I like. I learned those quotations because I liked them, not because I thought it was valuable to learn them. I think the intent of what was said was that I should learn valuable stuff, not stuff that I like. I imagine if I were anything other than uselessly smart, I wouldn't have that kind of pressure put on me.

    Quote Originally Posted by zlefin View Post
    addendum: having job history, ANY job history, is a big help for getting the better jobs. simply having a boss as a reference who can say you reliably showed up to work counts for a lot these days.
    Oh, I have that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Recherché View Post
    Is there any even remotely politic way to say that you might need some time off because your bosses behavior is causing you to have suicidal thoughts? (I'm not actually going to do anything but this is killing me mentally)
    Your area/company bylaws might be different, but I imagine if you got a note from a mental health professional you'd be able to get sick leave.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bartmanhomer View Post
    Hey everybody. I'm feeling very depressed because a few days ago, One of my Facebook friend who I know at my old childhood school wanted to commit suicide. I try talking to him by one of his post but he was very angry with me and everyone else. I even try on Messenger. One of his ex-friend accuse my friend of harassing and and my friend girlfriend. Last time I heard that the police was at his house. I try talking to him again on Messenger but it was blocked and his Facebook page is gone. I'm really worried about my friend.
    I'm sorry that I have nothing constructive to add to this at all. That just sounds scary and horrible. I hope you're able to talk with him soon.
    Last edited by The Fury; 2017-10-21 at 12:10 AM.
    Iop brain.

  10. - Top - End - #250
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    I'm having to say goodbye to a long-time family pet today.

    I guess now that I've moved out I should call Squeaky my parents' cat rather than mine, but for the majority of the last 14 years she's been one of mine as well.

    My mom brought her inside in 2003 (her mother had given birth to a litter in our front bushes, and one by one she was able to trap and neuter most of them. Squeaky was friendly enough that my mom coaxed her inside to stay. It took awhile, but she got used to the life of an indoor cat and never showed any real interest in going outside again. She was always kind of prickly, but she became really friendly the last few years (until she had had enough attention, then she would let you know in no uncertain terms). The rest of her kitty family has long since passed on, since we weren't able to do the same for them.

    She's always had some health problems, like the heart murmur she was diagnosed with when she was 3 or so years old. But for several months now she's been rapidly losing weight, and she seems to have little control over her bowels anymore either. My parents have been cleaning up messes all over the house, multiple times a day lately. I knew she was messing sometimes, but it has been much worse than I realized.

    The vet ran a bunch of tests, and it came back that she's most likely got lymphoma. So for awhile now it hasn't been a question of if, but when she was going to die. Her final visit to the vet will be tomorrow morning, and I can't be there because I have to drive back home tonight for work (I have a program to run so I can't call off). I know it's for the best, but I'm sad that she has to go. And it feels like I'm letting her down by not being there.

    To make it even worse, today is my mom's birthday.

  11. - Top - End - #251
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    ... okay so

    I had a seizure last night, so now I'm in the hospital. Today I had an MRI that showed I've got a tumor in my head.

    We don't know for sure yet if it's malignant or benign (currently they're thinking the latter) but either way I'm gonna need surgery to remove it and likely be here for a week or so for recovery. Surgery's Wednesday.
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  12. - Top - End - #252
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    well... I'd say break a leg.. but that seems inappropriate, given the situation.
    I am not good at giving comfort... as you'll have understood... anyway, fingers crossed.
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  13. - Top - End - #253
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    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: Personal Woes and Advice 5

    Quote Originally Posted by HalfTangible View Post
    I had a seizure last night, so now I'm in the hospital. Today I had an MRI that showed I've got a tumor in my head.
    Jeez. Hopefully they caught it early enough that there won't be any long-term problems...good luck.

  14. - Top - End - #254
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    Default Re: Personal Woes and Advice 5

    Quote Originally Posted by HalfTangible View Post
    ... okay so

    I had a seizure last night, so now I'm in the hospital. Today I had an MRI that showed I've got a tumor in my head.

    We don't know for sure yet if it's malignant or benign (currently they're thinking the latter) but either way I'm gonna need surgery to remove it and likely be here for a week or so for recovery. Surgery's Wednesday.
    All the best luck. My very good friend got diagnosed with brain cancer this summer and she's now in chemo. She's young like you (assuming you're 18-25, iirc?). Whatever comes, remember that you just need to take it slow and listen to your body first.
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  15. - Top - End - #255
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    Quote Originally Posted by FinnLassie View Post
    All the best luck. My very good friend got diagnosed with brain cancer this summer and she's now in chemo. She's young like you (assuming you're 18-25, iirc?). Whatever comes, remember that you just need to take it slow and listen to your body first.
    I just turned 26 a couple weeks ago, so, close.

    They say it's possible I've had this for years and it's only just now started causing problems. If it's benign, then I likely won't need chemo and can go home by this weekend. If it's malignant, then... well. We'll see.

    Thanks for your concern, everybody.
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  16. - Top - End - #256
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    HalflingPirate

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    Jeez, I hope you're OK halftangible!
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  17. - Top - End - #257
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    RangerGuy

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    Best wishes HalfTangible

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    Default Re: Personal Woes and Advice 5

    I wish I could get an answer for why therapy never seems to work. I wish someone could explain and I don't even know where to start.

    Every single time I go see a therapist, I end up spiraling down from feeling ok to being badly depressed or even suicidal. The only message I feel like I ever got from therapy is "there's something wrong with you." And that's from multiple therapists, trying over and over and over again. It was obvious from the therapist's behavior that I was supposed to be getting something from all the stuff they were doing. It was equally obvious to me that I wasn't. And it often seemed that the therapist's response was to say that was because I wasn't open or wasn't cooperating rather than that I literally didn't get where they were going.

    An example I remember from therapy. I said I had no choice but to continue in a certain bad situation. She challenged that, said I always had choices, asked about other options. I listed the other "options" I had and explained how I'd explored each one of them (in some cases with legal advice) and why they weren't on the table. She tried to do something she called "reframing" and told me that I did have options, I just picked one that I thought was best, and that I needed to think of it as my choice rather than something I had to do.

    She said it like it was some big revelation that was supposed to help. To me, it was about as annoying as the teacher who, when you ask "Can I go to the bathroom?", replies with "I don't know, can you?" Pedantic, and trying to dance around the real issues with wordplay. (That's how I felt about most of CBT too, honestly - playing word games rather than addressing issues.)
    Last edited by WarKitty; 2017-10-24 at 02:17 AM.
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  19. - Top - End - #259
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    BlackDragon

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    Quote Originally Posted by WarKitty View Post
    Every single time I go see a therapist, I end up spiraling down from feeling ok to being badly depressed or even suicidal.
    Unfortunately, the only people who can answer that are the therapists you're visiting. Have you told them they have this effect on you?

  20. - Top - End - #260
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    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    Unfortunately, the only people who can answer that are the therapists you're visiting. Have you told them they have this effect on you?
    No, I was too afraid to. I felt like they were blaming me for not getting along in therapy and I didn't feel comfortable opening up like that to someone who's acting that way. I know the times I have tried to say "I don't understand" or "I don't get it" or "I don't know how to answer that", the response is pretty much universally that I'm not trying.
    Last edited by WarKitty; 2017-10-24 at 02:56 AM.
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  21. - Top - End - #261
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    Default Re: Personal Woes and Advice 5

    Quote Originally Posted by HalfTangible View Post
    ... okay so

    I had a seizure last night, so now I'm in the hospital. Today I had an MRI that showed I've got a tumor in my head.

    We don't know for sure yet if it's malignant or benign (currently they're thinking the latter) but either way I'm gonna need surgery to remove it and likely be here for a week or so for recovery. Surgery's Wednesday.
    I know I've only ever interacted with you a few times, but you seem cool. So I guess know that you're in my thoughts and I hope that you'll be OK.

    Quote Originally Posted by WarKitty View Post
    I wish I could get an answer for why therapy never seems to work. I wish someone could explain and I don't even know where to start.

    Every single time I go see a therapist, I end up spiraling down from feeling ok to being badly depressed or even suicidal. The only message I feel like I ever got from therapy is "there's something wrong with you." And that's from multiple therapists, trying over and over and over again. It was obvious from the therapist's behavior that I was supposed to be getting something from all the stuff they were doing. It was equally obvious to me that I wasn't. And it often seemed that the therapist's response was to say that was because I wasn't open or wasn't cooperating rather than that I literally didn't get where they were going.

    An example I remember from therapy. I said I had no choice but to continue in a certain bad situation. She challenged that, said I always had choices, asked about other options. I listed the other "options" I had and explained how I'd explored each one of them (in some cases with legal advice) and why they weren't on the table. She tried to do something she called "reframing" and told me that I did have options, I just picked one that I thought was best, and that I needed to think of it as my choice rather than something I had to do.

    She said it like it was some big revelation that was supposed to help. To me, it was about as annoying as the teacher who, when you ask "Can I go to the bathroom?", replies with "I don't know, can you?" Pedantic, and trying to dance around the real issues with wordplay. (That's how I felt about most of CBT too, honestly - playing word games rather than addressing issues.)
    I think I have some idea of what that's like. I'm starting to wonder if maybe I have a kind of personality that counseling or therapy can't help. Though I gather your situation's pretty different from mine-- mention of seeking legal advice sounds like it's pretty serious.

    I'll admit that I'm a little pedantic as well, also I'm a little uncertain if I understand this whole "reframing" thing. So the question I'd have for your therapist would be this-- If you make a choice because choosing the alternative would be unhealthy or dangerous, is that really a choice? Though I'll admit, I may have missed the point.
    Iop brain.

  22. - Top - End - #262
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    Default Re: Personal Woes and Advice 5

    Quote Originally Posted by The Fury View Post
    I'll admit that I'm a little pedantic as well, also I'm a little uncertain if I understand this whole "reframing" thing. So the question I'd have for your therapist would be this-- If you make a choice because choosing the alternative would be unhealthy or dangerous, is that really a choice? Though I'll admit, I may have missed the point.
    That was kind of my thought as well. I mean, I guess it could be seen as a choice? It's just not one that I find helpful to make me feel better. "I'm in a bad situation because I didn't have a choice" and "I'm in a bad situation because bad situation was the least bad selection" seem to me to be pretty equivalent. The fundamental problem is "I'm in a bad situation and I don't see a better option."

    I think a lot of my frustration comes from that therapy seems to often assume it really isn't that bad, and that once you fix your thinking you'll see that it isn't that bad. Sometimes it is that bad, and that's not a problem that's going to be addressed by fixing your thinking.
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  23. - Top - End - #263
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    @WarKitty:
    For what is worth (which is very little!), in my experience therapy is at least as much about developing an healthy relationship with the therapist (which would "teach" you to develop healthy relationships with other people in the future) as it's about discovering your inner thingies. or about reframing situations and so on. So, when they say you aren't trying enough, it's possible (or even likely, if they're good therapists) that they're not referring to the fact that you don't agree with them, but to the fact that they expect you to challenge them.

    Again, for what it's worth (which is very little), from reading your previous posts it seems like your biggest emotional problem, or at least the problem that's at the source of the other problems, is your relationship with your mother, in particular the fact that she has trained you not to stand up to her. By standing up to your therapists in a controlled environment, you might start to retrain yourself to stand up to things that annoy you. They would possibly consider it a very positive development if you did tell them about how nothing they do is working for you, and how they're just making you feel bad. Even if you got angry with them about it. Maybe especially if you did. I mean, I would consider it a positive development, but I'm just a guy with a keyboard.
    Last edited by Cozzer; 2017-10-24 at 03:17 AM.

  24. - Top - End - #264
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    What he said. If what they tell you or do with you is not working, you need to tell them. They can only work on what you comunicate.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cozzer View Post
    @WarKitty:
    For what is worth (which is very little!), in my experience therapy is at least as much about developing an healthy relationship with the therapist (which would "teach" you to develop healthy relationships with other people in the future) as it's about discovering your inner thingies. or about reframing situations and so on. So, when they say you aren't trying enough, it's possible (or even likely, if they're good therapists) that they're not referring to the fact that you don't agree with them, but to the fact that they expect you to challenge them.

    Again, for what it's worth (which is very little), from reading your previous posts it seems like your biggest emotional problem, or at least the problem that's at the source of the other problems, is your relationship with your mother, in particular the fact that she has trained you not to stand up to her. By standing up to your therapists in a controlled environment, you might start to retrain yourself to stand up to things that annoy you. They would possibly consider it a very positive development if you did tell them about how nothing they do is working for you, and how they're just making you feel bad. Even if you got angry with them about it. Maybe especially if you did. I mean, I would consider it a positive development, but I'm just a guy with a keyboard.
    I stand up to my mother just fine when I'm not worrying about financial stuff. It's not my training or whatever that's keeping me from standing up to her. It's my fear of being homeless if I alienate her too much and my concern that I can't afford both my medical care and to eat and pay rent on my own and all that. So standing up to the therapist isn't helpful, because I'm not afraid that my therapist has the power to make me pay for doing it. Until I can get my financial and medical situation under control, I do believe my mother has that power. It's not that I'm "trained not to stand up to her", it's that I'm afraid of ending up homeless.

    Quote Originally Posted by dehro View Post
    What he said. If what they tell you or do with you is not working, you need to tell them. They can only work on what you comunicate.
    I mean, all I have to communicate is "this isn't working, I can see that I'm supposed to get something out of it and I'm not." And therapists in my experience don't buy it when you do say that kind of thing.

    It's like how they all do the "where in your body do you feel your anxiety" exercise. And it never works for me. It's in my brain, it's not something I feel physically, I don't know how to answer that. And I have never had a single therapist take me saying that at face value - it's always something that somehow really means I don't want to answer.
    Last edited by WarKitty; 2017-10-24 at 03:36 AM.
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  26. - Top - End - #266
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    Quote Originally Posted by WarKitty View Post
    I mean, all I have to communicate is "this isn't working, I can see that I'm supposed to get something out of it and I'm not." And therapists in my experience don't buy it when you do say that kind of thing.

    It's like how they all do the "where in your body do you feel your anxiety" exercise. And it never works for me. It's in my brain, it's not something I feel physically, I don't know how to answer that. And I have never had a single therapist take me saying that at face value - it's always something that somehow really means I don't want to answer.
    Ok, without me affirming that they are/may be right (I tend to be a bit skeptical in such matters myself)..let's ride out that exercise.
    what happens when you take their word for it and accept that maybe there is something you are not willing to share or answer about or put your finger on? What can you do or ask to identify what it is that you don't get or manage to pinpoint?
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    Let's say you don't have to pinpoint the physical source. Are you clear on what are the physical manifestations such as there are? Can you identify a thought or a thought pattern that makes you unconfortable to the point of causing anxiety? what happens when you share that, if you do? what do they say?
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  27. - Top - End - #267
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Personal Woes and Advice 5

    Hmm, sorry for having misinterpreted the situation, I was going by what I remembered of your posts during the previous months and I missed the mark. I apologize. If she has that much concrete leverage over you, it must be really terribly hard...

  28. - Top - End - #268
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    Default Re: Personal Woes and Advice 5

    Quote Originally Posted by WarKitty View Post
    It's like how they all do the "where in your body do you feel your anxiety" exercise. And it never works for me. It's in my brain, it's not something I feel physically, I don't know how to answer that. And I have never had a single therapist take me saying that at face value - it's always something that somehow really means I don't want to answer.
    I've never heard of that exercise, and I've been to several therapists, and yes, for anxiety related issues. I really think you've managed to find some really incompetent people. Never heard of reframing, through CBT did somewhat work for me until it was realized by the therapist there was an underlying issue.

    Odd question, but is it possible that your mother has been speaking to these people? I'm also going to make some assumptions here, but uh...WarKitty, how old do you seem and how do you dress? Are you perhaps a bit on the short side? I think these people might be mistaking you for a very immature teenager. It doesn't excuse them, but it might explain something.
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  29. - Top - End - #269
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    Quote Originally Posted by WarKitty View Post
    I wish I could get an answer for why therapy never seems to work. I wish someone could explain and I don't even know where to start.

    Every single time I go see a therapist, I end up spiraling down from feeling ok to being badly depressed or even suicidal. The only message I feel like I ever got from therapy is "there's something wrong with you." And that's from multiple therapists, trying over and over and over again. It was obvious from the therapist's behavior that I was supposed to be getting something from all the stuff they were doing. It was equally obvious to me that I wasn't. And it often seemed that the therapist's response was to say that was because I wasn't open or wasn't cooperating rather than that I literally didn't get where they were going.

    An example I remember from therapy. I said I had no choice but to continue in a certain bad situation. She challenged that, said I always had choices, asked about other options. I listed the other "options" I had and explained how I'd explored each one of them (in some cases with legal advice) and why they weren't on the table. She tried to do something she called "reframing" and told me that I did have options, I just picked one that I thought was best, and that I needed to think of it as my choice rather than something I had to do.

    She said it like it was some big revelation that was supposed to help. To me, it was about as annoying as the teacher who, when you ask "Can I go to the bathroom?", replies with "I don't know, can you?" Pedantic, and trying to dance around the real issues with wordplay. (That's how I felt about most of CBT too, honestly - playing word games rather than addressing issues.)
    Quote Originally Posted by WarKitty View Post
    I mean, all I have to communicate is "this isn't working, I can see that I'm supposed to get something out of it and I'm not." And therapists in my experience don't buy it when you do say that kind of thing.

    It's like how they all do the "where in your body do you feel your anxiety" exercise. And it never works for me. It's in my brain, it's not something I feel physically, I don't know how to answer that. And I have never had a single therapist take me saying that at face value - it's always something that somehow really means I don't want to answer.
    There is also the distinct possibility that therapy (or at least their styles of therapy) doesn't work for you. Psychology has to be personalized to the individual, to say the least. And not everything works for everyone. Heck, CBT doesn't work for me, though for rather different reasons.

    A good therapist will take what you say at face value. They will adjust your sessions to fit your personality and what works best for you. This person sounds like, though she might be fine for 90% of people, she won't work for you.

    I'd advise talking to your GP. See if they have someone else they can refer you to. Someone with a different style, who might work better with your restrictions.

  30. - Top - End - #270
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    Default Re: Personal Woes and Advice 5

    Quote Originally Posted by WarKitty View Post
    I think a lot of my frustration comes from that therapy seems to often assume it really isn't that bad, and that once you fix your thinking you'll see that it isn't that bad. Sometimes it is that bad, and that's not a problem that's going to be addressed by fixing your thinking.
    Therapy generally won't be able to solve your everyday problems. It's trying to see how you deal with said problems. Trying to frame something as "you made the best possible choice out of a bunch of bad choices" vs "I have no choice and must do X" is a way to try and manage perception. The former is certainly a more positive way of thinking. This is one of the things cognitive reframing (or restructuring) is used for. Now it is certainly possible this doesn't work for you. It's also possible you've let your prior bad experience with therapy warp your perception of therapy to such a degree that you're not longer being objective about it. Something to consider the next time they tell you or ask to you to do something you feel is "pointless" or "stupid".

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