Why are physicians generally huge jerks?

[Luz]

I get it, you have a good job and you studied for very long, but you are not a god, why so many doctors lack the basic of empathy?

I had to take my mom to the hospital yesterday and they were either:

-Too cool for school.
-Too incopetent.
-Too serius and cold.
-Joking aorund while you are really not in the mood for that.

I know he must be tired.
I know he may be a beginner.
I know he is tring to keep it professional and impartial.
I know he is tring to make me feel better.

But why? Is it too much to ask to just do your job and reassure me that everything will be fine?

[Peelee]

I get it, you have a good job and yous dutied for very long, but you are not a good, why so many doctors lack the basic of empathy?

I had tot ake my mom to the hospital yesterday and they were either:

-Too cool for school.
-Too incopetent.
-Too serius and cold.
-Joking aorund while you are really not in the mood for that.

I know he must be tired.
I know he may be a beginner.
I know he is tring to keep it professional and impartial.
I know he is tring to make me feel better.

But why? Is it too much to ask to just do your job and reassure me that everything will be fine?

Well, they had a whole helluva lot of schooling that was fairly intensive, expensive, and competitive. That's the starting point for every doctor.

Now, after that, we have several possibilities. They could have patients who come in for maladies, get treated, get advice from the doctor on how to avoid such maladies in the future (eg, "no red meat,"), and then promptly ignore said advice (eg, eating a steak every night). So the doctor, who had to jump through all those hoops to help people, gets ignored and has to do more work because his patients won't do a damn thing to help themselves.

Or, there are patients who look online for a bit and become convinced that they know as much as the doctor does. So we have a doctor who had to jump through all those hoops to help people get ignored because some dude on the internet wrote an article saying the opposite of what he thinks, having actually looked at you and seen your medical history.

Or, there are patients who are convinced that western medicine is the devil, so they'll go in when horrible tragedy strikes or an ambulance brings them in, but will ignore any advice and will ask for no medicine, no X-Rays, no CT scans, no MRI scans, etc. So we have a doctor who jumped through all those hoops to help people get ignored because some people think that a crystal holds just as much healing power as the doctor.

And so on and so on. Now, I'm not saying there aren't incompetent doctors or doctors who just got in it for the money. There absolutely are. And I'm not saying that no patient will ever listen to the doctor. Most will. But when you have a portion of patients who disrespect you in rather shocking ways, plus the idea that you're always fighting a losing battle, it's not out of the realm of possibility that those things can build up and have an effect on the docs.

Add in that all that schooling and high-tier knowledge can also impart a god-complex, and that some people are naturally somewhat jerkish to begin with, and doctors can be dealt a pretty rough hand. Though there's always the fact that having a bad day while driving your Mercedes down to your lake house is a far cry better than having a bad day driving your Volkswagen down to your apartment.

[danzibr]

Does a PhD in Mathematics count? I know you're talking about an MD, but still.

If so... I'm not a huge jerk ;)

Come to think of it... alright, first I'll take doctor to mean anyone with a doctorate. I would say a strong majority were actually not jerks, even quite kind. Then again, many were academics.

Next, restricting myself to doctors, dentists, chiropractors, and the like, I would say again well over half have been quite kind.

Now, looking *just* at people with an MD... ya know, I'm still going to say most were kind. I can certainly think of some jerk doctors I've met, but that's not the norm.

Sorry you've had bad experiences. :(

[Aedilred]

I have to say that "jerk doctors" hasn't generally been my experience. I've had a couple of brusque ones and one or two who've tried to fob me off because they didn't take my complaint seriously, but for the most part I have had a positive experience of doctors I've visited as a patient and those I've known socially.

That aside, I think Peelee is largely correct. Being a doctor is a taxing, emotionally draining, job, and you see a lot of people who you probably fantasise about slapping/throttling/etc. as well as a lot of the ugly side of humanity. It's not surprising that a lot of them develop a thick and/or spiky outer shell, or an inappropriate sense of humour.

To answer your question directly:

Is it too much to ask to just do your job...

Really? Yes, I think so, of almost anyone. Demanding of someone that they just do their job is a much bigger ask than it sounds. In some fields, mostly those related to security, this is pretty much a requirement, but such jobs often have short shifts and a relatively high turnover, because it's hard to do that for long.

They're people, not robots; they're always going to be "more than" the job.

Is it too much to ask to ... reassure me that everything will be fine?

A lot of the time, yes. It depends what the problem is. A good doctor won't tell you everything will be fine if they don't know that it will. If a complaint is serious, they'll treat it seriously (whether they are making jokes or not) and they're not going to lie to you about your chances. Not least because they don't want people to turn round and sue them.

[Chen]

-Too serius and cold.
-Joking aorund while you are really not in the mood for that.

Uh so cant be serious and clinical but also cant joke around. So what exactly does that leave?

But why? Is it too much to ask to just do your job and reassure me that everything will be fine?

Do their job fine. Reassure you that everything will be fine? Sure if thats the situation. If its not or its unknown they're not there to patronize you and make you feel better if things are going badly.

[Luz]

Uh so cant be serious and clinical but also cant joke around. So what exactly does that leave?

Be serious but emphatic. I saw a doctor telling a mother that her son would lose the movement of his legs, stone cold blank face, she almost passed out and he didn't even help her get up. WTF? Can’t you prepare her a little bit?

Also if someone is telling that their mother tried to kill herself with a knife during a psychotic breakdown the least thing you want to hear is the doctor joking that maybe she was using it to defend herself against monster, or that the price is the worst side effect of a medicine or that my name rhyme with hers. That’s like so clearly not the time or moment for that, am I talking to a professional or a buffoon?

[Razade]

So be serious and humorous to suit you perfectly. Adding Luz to the list alongside The Eye and Bartmanhomer.

[Luz]

So be serious and humorous to suit you perfectly. Adding Luz to the list alongside The Eye and Bartmanhomer.

Are not only arrogant but also stupid? In what moment did I said that physicians need to be humorous? Are you unable to read properly?

And what is that list of yours? A list of people you see as inferior to you? Does that make your insignificant life feel less of a burden?

[golentan]

Be serious but emphatic. I saw a doctor telling a mother that her son would lose the movement of his legs, stone cold blank face, she almost passed out and he didn't even help her get up. WTF? Can’t you prepare her a little bit?

Also if someone is telling that their mother tried to kill herself with a knife during a psychotic breakdown the least thing you want to hear is the doctor joking that maybe she was using it to defend herself against monster, or that the price is the worst side effect of a medicine or that my name rhyme with hers. That’s like so clearly not the time or moment for that, am I talking to a professional or a buffoon?

Sometimes doctors cross the line, but you have to remember that the bad news you may hear is the worst news you're likely to get all month. Whereas doctors have to go back and deal with a few hundred more patients in that time frame, many of whom will die, some of whom will die horribly, some of whom will do so while the doctor watches and is expected to fill out the paperwork about their death.

In a hospital, it's different from family care/pediatrics. It's rough on everyone. There's a high burnout rate. So people develop coping mechanisms. I'm in animal medicine, and in school we had a whole module on compassion fatigue and avoiding burnout, and with the exception of 24 hour emergency clinics veterinary medicine is more usually like family practice on the human side (though we do do surgeries and chemo and euthanasia). And it's rough. Sometimes, you go into the back and take 5 minutes to cry, and then you have to put your game face back on and give vaccines to a puppy who looks like your patient that just died, or get a medical history on an animal who you know is not going to have a positive outcome, and you have to cope.

That's why doctors can come off rough. Because it's hard, and they're trying to cope.

[Luz]

That's why doctors can come off rough. Because it's hard, and they're trying to cope.

Deep down I know that, I just wanted to vent.

But I must say hospitals are completely unprepared to deal with psychiatric emergencies, I had to most of the work while the nurses just look around scared.

[Razade]

Are not only arrogant but also stupid? In what moment did I said that physicians need to be humorous? Are you unable to read properly?

I can read just fine thank you. Humor and Joking are synonyms after all, I'm sorry I didn't use the precise language you used.

And what is that list of yours? A list of people you see as inferior to you? Does that make your insignificant life feel less of a burden?

A list of people who make wildly broad sweeping comments about entire professions or people in a judgmental way and then respond rather aggressively when their preconceived notions are challenged. Sort of like, when it's pointed out that a person (you) is being unreasonable in their attitude towards physicians (or anything else) instead of going "you might be correct" they instead start insulting people. Like telling them they don't know how to read or have an insignificant life.

That list.

[Luz]

I can read just fine thank you. Humor and Joking are synonyms after all, I'm sorry I didn't use the precise language you used.

Oh yeah and on my post I totally said I love the joking part right? I hate smartasses who come to a place, don't even read things appropriately and think they are the smartest people around.

A list of people who make wildly broad sweeping comments about entire professions or people in a judgmental way and then respond rather aggressively when their preconceived notions are challenged. Sort of like, when it's pointed out that a person (you) is being unreasonable in their attitude towards physicians (or anything else) instead of going "you might be correct" they instead start insulting people. Like telling them they don't know how to read or have an insignificant life.

That list.

"Look at me I'm Razade, I'm so smart that I have to make people feel down and bad about themselves since I can't contribute with anything relevant to the threat."

Next time don't be a bully, if you have nothing to say don't post.

The fact you need to make people feel down to make yourself feel better, is pathetic, grow up.

[golentan]

Deep down I know that, I just wanted to vent.

But I must say hospitals are completely unprepared to deal with psychiatric emergencies, I had to most of the work while the nurses just look around scared.

You get basically none of my sympathy on that. I've been through basically every part of the mental health "system" since I was diagnosed with a psychotic illness as a minor. That's a systemic problem, not a nurse problem.

[Luz]

You get basically none of my sympathy on that. I've been through basically every part of the mental health "system" since I was diagnosed with a psychotic illness as a minor. That's a systemic problem, not a nurse problem.

What do you mean? Do I have to contain a woman screaming and fighting by myself while four big guys who are allegedly better trained and prepared for this kind of situations just look and don't help?

[golentan]

I mean that I'm not inclined to take your word that you "containing" her was helping, if this was happening in the lobby/patient intake I don't believe those people were better trained to "contain" her (if anything, their better training if they had received it which is not a given may have reasonably including giving her some space to calm down), and my sympathies about the problems of being in a hospital for mental health reasons lie here with the patient, not with you.

[Luz]

I mean that I'm not inclined to take your word that you "containing" her was helping, if this was happening in the lobby/patient intake I don't believe those people were better trained to "contain" her (if anything, their better training if they had received it which is not a given may have reasonably including giving her some space to calm down), and my sympathies about the problems of being in a hospital for mental health reasons lie here with the patient, not with you.

Fair enough.

I'm just going to add that this is a difficult situation for all involved, just because you experienced firsthand one side of the story doesn't mean you can't understand and try to comprehend the other.

[golentan]

I didn't say that I have no understanding or sympathy to the loved ones of psychiatric patients. I've lived that side too, and my friends and family have been really wonderful about offering care and support despite how clearly hard it was for them on the occasions I've been hospitalized.

I said I had no sympathy for the specific complaint you were making in that post.

[Luz]

I didn't say that I have no understanding or sympathy to the loved ones of psychiatric patients. I've lived that side too, and my friends and family have been really wonderful about offering care and support despite how clearly hard it was for them on the occasions I've been hospitalized.

I said I had no sympathy for the specific complaint you were making in that post.

And what was I supposed to do? She was running towards a busy avenue.

[golentan]

I dunno, since I don't know much about what was going on.

You made a thread to complain about how an entire profession dedicated to saving lives are jerks, then dribble out details about how your mother was in crisis and potentially at risk of her life as a defense of your position, and my impression is less than impressed with how you've expressed or dealt with any of this, in part because of how it jibes with the people who most hurt me when I was in a similar situation to hers.

Like, I'd be having a VERY different reaction if this thread had been framed differently around your mother rather than around doctors having a bedside manner you disapproved of. "The psychiatric system is poorly organized, understaffed, lacks sufficient beds for patients, and antipsychotic meds are too expensive" is a very different conversation for me than "a doctor told a bad joke about monsters which might have been probing for symptoms."

I still would like to express my support and hope that the psych ward and meds are able to stabilize her. She will also undoubtedly need a good support network, and preferably someone to help ensure she stays on her meds. Feel free to pass her my support on that front when you have the opportunity.

[WarKitty]

Luz, do you suppose you could give us a bit more story? Putting together from a few threads, I know this is a really, really hard time for you. It's just hard to tell what exactly is going on right now.

[Luz]

I dunno, since I don't know much about what was going on.

You made a thread to complain about how an entire profession dedicated to saving lives are jerks, then dribble out details about how your mother was in crisis and potentially at risk of her life as a defense of your position, and my impression is less than impressed with how you've expressed or dealt with any of this, in part because of how it jibes with the people who most hurt me when I was in a similar situation to hers.

Like, I'd be having a VERY different reaction if this thread had been framed differently around your mother rather than around doctors having a bedside manner you disapproved of. "The psychiatric system is poorly organized, understaffed, lacks sufficient beds for patients, and antipsychotic meds are too expensive" is a very different conversation for me than "a doctor told a bad joke about monsters which might have been probing for symptoms."

I still would like to express my support and hope that the psych ward and meds are able to stabilize her. She will also undoubtedly need a good support network, and preferably someone to help ensure she stays on her meds. Feel free to pass her my support on that front when you have the opportunity.

I guess I was just angry and needed to find a culprit for my anger.

Thanks for the suport.

I guess I will be the one to help ensure she stays on her meds.

Thanks, I will.


EDIT:

Luz, do you suppose you could give us a bit more story? Putting together from a few threads, I know this is a really, really hard time for you. It's just hard to tell what exactly is going on right now.

Well it's a long story, here we go:

Spoiler: Long

Show

My mom was never really a happy girl, she had a lot of problems with her sister and classmates, she was always considered a weird kid since she was quiet and more reserved, she grows up, she met her first boyfriend when she was a young adult, he is kind to her, they fall in love, he dies in a car crash.

She never really gets over it.

She meets my father, they start dating, they marry in impulse, she has her first psychotic breakdown when she finds out he was cheating on her, she has always been very spiritual and religious, she started hearing voices, seeing angels and claims a portal opened for her one day and she went to the other side to see her ex-boyfriend who died.

She gets better, builds our house, works as a teacher, loved by her students. My father‘s family is super rude and mean to her. They have my brother and then me.

One day my father's mom is so rude with her she has another psychotic breakdown, runs away, stays two nights in the streets end up institutionalized, hates it, never admits she has a problem for her is a spiritual thing.

The place she was institutionalized brings her a great deal of shame, she thinks she didn’t had to go there and she hates the fact that she was forced to go there.

My father stars acting more and more violent against my mom and my brother, I do nothing about it since I was just a kid.

My brother starts to act more and more like a rebel, causing trouble at school and picking up fights.

My mother's sister blame her for this, she gets deeply depressed.

Me and my mom share many things together, we listen to classical music, dance, paint, do yoga, talk about religion and philosophy.

She makes me promise I would never let her be institutionalized again.

Our bound gets stronger and stronger.

My mother starts getting depressed.

My mother tries to suicide. She fails.

She gets better; my brother graduates and starts university.

My father starts to get more and more violent to point where after a fight with my mother he attacks us with a knife and tries to murder us.

We hide in the living room until he gets calm.

He starts crying as asks for forgiveness.

My mother forgives him, not because of her love for him but because she doesn't want her "reputation to be ruined"

I reluctantly agree.

My father gets less violent and more distant.

I graduate and Start University, I focus so much on the studies that I don't enjoy my youth, with such a messy home I can't afford to go to parties and have friends.

My brother graduates and move away.

I end up finding out I'm gay and not knowing how to deal with it I ask my brother's help begging for him not to tell anyone.

He tells my mom, she feels betrayed, she always hated sex in all forms and gay sex for her was especially bad and repulsive.

My brother and my Mom decide to not tell my father about it since he is very homophobic and one my cousins on his side of the family even has been reported assaulting gay people on the streets.

They found a conversion therapy hypnotist, they make me go there.

I feel like I betrayed my mom, I was the only one she trusted and now her eyes look dead with sadness, she can't even look at my face knowing the things I think.

Conversion therapy goes as expected, torture both physical and mental; she even used small doses of electroshock that i think messed up my brain even more.

I act like it worked hiding my sexuality and ending any possibility of having a normal sex life.

I graduate, start working at a shifty job living an unhappy and unfulfilling life.

My father starts to participate more, but fails at being nice.

My brother starts dating a girl who my mom hates since she is a bad influence on him, making him spending a lot of money, start drinking and smoking.

Me and my mom, we get closer again, but it's just not the same, she has that disgusted look on her face every time she remembers what I was "cured" off.

My brother gets married to that girl my mom hates.

She starts to get bad again, saying things that don't make much sense.

Fast forward to now where she had a full blown psychotic breakdown, hearing voices, acting like a child, claiming everyone is out to get her, that they have cameras and mics around the house, that I'm the only one she can trust.

I wake up she has a knife on her hand; I get worried thinking she is trying to kill herself.

After much convening she aggress to seek help since she trusts me.

My father is driving, she changes her mind and tries to jump out of the moving car, I'm forced to hold her she bites my hands many times, after that she starts saying a lot of horrible and mean things about me in front of my father who did not knew.

We get to the hospital, I called as we left our house explaining the situation, they ensure me they were ready, they weren’t.

After a long time, speeding the night there and having to deal with aphetic and rude doctors she get the medicine she needs, gets calmer, we come home, my father assumes all she said were not true, but punches me and says that it better not be true.
I keep my promise and refuse the suggestion of the doctor to have her institutionalized and suggest treating her at home with the medicine he prescribed, he agree but makes me sign a paper where I take full responsibility of that.

She is starting to recover, but claims I broke the promise since I took her to the hospital. I didn’t knew what to do she was getting to violent and agitated, my conscious is clear, I gave her the medicine and she is now sleeping to the music of Erik Satie and I log in the internet to vent.

And now I'm telling my entire life story here, thanks for this, I really needed that, to share you know? I feel much better thanks.

[tensai_oni]

That's one heck of a story there.

I think I know why your brother moved out. Your parents sound toxic and, frankly, I suggest moving out too. I had sympathy for your mother but by the time she hated you and had you go through conversion therapy just because of your sexuality, I lost all of it. Your father in particular sounds like someone you'd be better off cutting off from your life completely. Don't hesitate to call the cops if he assaults you again.

There are subreddits specializing in advice for people in hard life situations, especially relationship-related situations (/r/relationships is a good one), and they're a good place to get advice regarding this kind of thing. Definitely a better place than this forum.

[Scarlet Knight]

Luz, your story is both tragic and common. The mental health system is very labor intensive, understaffed and under-budgeted. People have trouble dealing with the insane. There are good people willing to help; they are often just too worn down and outnumbered to be effective.

The mentally ill are particularly hard to deal with in the medical field. Often every decision the patient makes is compromised and it falls upon family to care for them. If a patient with high blood pressure refuses his medication, he eventually strokes out and dies, hurting only himself. If a paranoid refuses his meds, he ends up attacking people in the street. Life for the families of the mentally ill is very hard (plus I wouldn’t be surprised if your father is also crazy).

Sadly, like most family of the mentally ill, you will either have to care for your parents, which is a life sentence - albeit a noble one; or you will have to decide if it is beyond your ability and institutionalize your mom. Most of us face this with Alzheimer’s parents, but sadly, if you are dutiful, your parents may live for another 50 years or more.

[JNAProductions]

In my experience, doctors tend to be an okay sort. Admittedly, I've never had a doctor tell me I was going to go blind or a family member was going to die or anything.

Most of my doctors have been nice enough people-not always perfect, but helpful and doing their best to see me healthy.

There's one exception, but even then, he wasn't necessarily a jerk-not in his attitude, anyway. He was trying to make money in perhaps a less than savory way, but he wasn't rude or anything. (And no, it wasn't anything too bad-just probably getting kickbacks from the pharmacies.)

[S@tanicoaldo]

I'm sorry Luz, that you have to go through this, but look at the bright side, if you ever write you biography is going to be more interesting than mine.

Pages and pages of:
"Satanicoaldo woke up, played video games/read comics/Surfed the net, went to work."
"Satanicoaldo came back from work, played video games/read comics/Surfed the net, went to bed"

On a serious note, you may think that your relationship with your mother is a good thing, but in my opinion it's a very harmful one.

She has no support network other than you, it seems she sees you more as a friend than a son, that's not healthy, you are not her friend you are her son she can't demand things from you, if she has no friends or ways to interact with other people of course her mind will not be healthy.

The same goes with you, she is keeping you form having a good and healthy social life, that may end up taking a tool on your own sanity.

My advice is, if you plan to take care of her for your entire life (You said so in the other thread), after she gets better, she needs a hobby and people to be friend with, and you also need friends and strong support form people who are not mentally sick right now.

That's my advice, build social links.


About the doctors, yeah they are generally huge @ssholes, the power and influence will do that to you; many have god complexes and are very disrespectful towards other people’s beliefs.

But I have dated a military doctor, who worked in the psychiatric department, and he cracked jokes all the time, both at the job and at home, he claimed that it was to ease things and part of his personality.

If the family likes this kind of thing they would feel better if they don’t they would be so pissed at him that they would not have time to be angry either with their love d ones or with themselves(something very common according to him). But I agree it’s kind of anti-ethical but as the others said it’s a coping mechanism, she was the first person you had to deal with that had this kind of problem and look how worn out you are, imagine how many he has already seen.

[Florian]

Weird coincidence. Just had one of my regular talks with one of my main investors, her mum is a case of early-onset alzheimers and she cares deeply for her.

Luz, do you really, honestly believe your mum is "starting to recover"? It reads more like the kind of abuse you suffered, you crave love by your parents and the actual situation to "give and receive" validates this.

At that point, everyone telling you the truth will come over s a huge "jerk".

[The Eye]

@Luz, you have my sympathies, it's not easy to deal with mental health issues, try not to overdo it and spare some time for yourself.

So be serious and humorous to suit you perfectly. Adding Luz to the list alongside The Eye and Bartmanhomer.

Hey Razade, I don't mind you saying bad things about me in my threats, but I don't go around the forum spreading the word of how much of a jerk you are so i would appreciate if you didn't do that to me.

[Chen]

About the doctors, yeah they are generally huge @ssholes, the power and influence will do that to you; many have god complexes and are very disrespectful towards other people’s beliefs.

Generally? There are no doubt ******* doctors out there but to imply most of them are is absolutely ridiculous.

[S@tanicoaldo]

Generally? There are no doubt ******* doctors out there but to imply most of them are is absolutely ridiculous.

Ask a nurse, psychologist or physiotherapist how does it feel to work in a hospital with doctors. After that come back and tell me how it went. ;)

[Peelee]

Ask a nurse, psychologist or physiotherapist

Oh, that's not fair. At least the other two studied a real science. Before anyone replies, yes, I know. Still funny.