Why are physicians generally huge jerks?

[Lord Joeltion]

I assume they were talking more about weather because the need to take the temperature of humans is pretty limited for most everyday use.

He said 2-4 degrees (Celsius). That's an amplitude only common on a very warm, humid day on a tropical zone. Most people living in a temperate zone regularly experience a daily variation of 7-12 Celsius degrees, when weather isn't particularly humid. So either he lives in the Caribbean (or a zone where for some reason day and night share similar temperatures), or he wasn't speaking about the weather. 2 degrees is too little to be concerned about in any scale anyway.

[AMFV]

Funny, only time in my life I had to dealt with inches also was in construction. Not for actual work, but to buy tools and other thingies. It always amused me that. Anyway, no, "intuitive" is only for you. I assure you, we SI people don't find our own system confusing in the least. There's a reason scientist use it too.

You are ignoring the vast majority of what I said. First off in carpentry and constructional and engineers and surveyors use a system of measurement divisible by tens. It is a lot less useful to people that might have to cut a board into 3 equal pieces or four equal pieces, as others have pointed out. It's also really easy to double quickly even if the numbers are odd numbers, which is not necessarily the case for a system of tense particularly if you have to double and double and double something like saying for laying something out.

One of the other major advantages of the imperial system is that it has alternative units of measurement which are intuitive for different things. For example in the metric system and in the imperial system a meter or yard is roughly one human pace for the average person that makes it extremely intuitive to use as a measurement of distance especially walking distance or running distance. However unlike the metric system inches are pretty intuitive to use for how big a board should be, not so much centimeters or millimeters, and I've already discussed the difference between feet and and meters in those terms.

Again surveyors and Engineers use a system of tenths Carpenters use a system of twelfths there's a reason why when both systems are available some people are using one and some people are using the other.

It's funny because last time I heard an American proposing the change to SI; it was Neil deGrasse Tyson

Which is funny to me because I was unaware that Neil deGrasse Tyson was involved with NASA in any way, or that he had landed on the moon.

And again the science are a field where metric is generally superior. My point was that this is not always the case in all fields.

[thorgrim29]

Canada is weird about units... We're officially metric but because of inertia and american cultural influence/pollution we still use imperial for a few things, mainly height and weight. Some make sense and some are very random. Like temperature is in celcius unless you're like 80 years old OR you're asking about a pool's water temperature. Water comes in liters but beer and liquor come in pints and ounces, things like that. Honestly I think metric is better for many reasons but I'd also be happy if it was just one or the other...

[Liquor Box]

I say it is because Brits in sporting events often still use pounds or stone for human weight. Despite having been on the metric system for longer than I've been alive. I mean that may not be universal but it's definitely present.

How does that make it more intuitive? I mean if you are relying on which measurement is more popular worldwide pounds and stone lose hands down to kilograms.

Fair enough that its present,nobody is denying that. But I can't understand why you would say that the imperial system is more intuitive, except to someone who is used to it.

[AMFV]

How does that make it more intuitive? I mean if you are relying on which measurement is more popular worldwide pounds and stone lose hands down to kilograms.

Fair enough that its present,nobody is denying that. But I can't understand why you would say that the imperial system is more intuitive, except to someone who is used to it.

Well again it depends what you are actually referring to. There are field where the imperial system is more intuitive or more naturally easy to use.

The case of the British sportscasters is important because first Britain traditionally uses metric so that suggests in this use case it's probably more intuitive to use the other. Basically when they're talking about human weights and they have a choice of which they rather use they would rather use Imperial or British in this case since you have actual stone weight measurements.

Edit: and again I went over in my own life how you can be more intuitive with the imperial system over the metric system. There are certain things that the imperial system does very well that the metric system does not. And vis versa. For example the imperial system as a lot of finicky units of measurement which is useful if you have to measure a lot of things that are different in terms of how you would conceptualize them. A metric you have centimeters and then meters and that's a huge gap so it's very hard to conceptualize something that would be say 6 inches long in metric whereas in Imperial it's easy to conceptualize that. It's also easier to subdivide feet than it is meters since feet are divisible by 3, 4, and 2. Rather than by 5 and 2.

[thorgrim29]

2 things, the SI (from système international so SI system would be a tautology) is french, the reason the Imperial System is called imperial is because it was the British Empire's.

Also you have decimeters which are 10% of a meter (or 10 cm) so that takes care of that, besides for ballpark measures purposes a foot is pretty close to a third of a meter, so I'd assume that's what they use in fully SI countries for a rough approximation of a foot. I'm not blaming you BTW AMFV, your brain is wired for american units at this point, nothing you can do about it, but it would be just as wired for SI if you'd grown up in say Italy.

[Peelee]

Celsius?

Okay..., 20 degrees Celsius is about 68 degrees Fahrenheit, so yes that would be pleasantly warm in San Francisco, 30 degrees Celsius, however, is about 86 degrees Fahrenheit!



When it gets that hot I feel cheated to be paying Bay area housing prices.

Too dang hot!

68? Pleasantly warm?

....so, are there a lot of igloos around the Bat area?

[AMFV]

2 things, the SI (from système international so SI system would be a tautology) is french, the reason the Imperial System is called imperial is because it was the British Empire's.

Also you have decimeters which are 10% of a meter (or 10 cm) so that takes care of that, besides for ballpark measures purposes a foot is pretty close to a third of a meter, so I'd assume that's what they use in fully SI countries for a rough approximation of a foot. I'm not blaming you BTW AMFV, your brain is wired for american units at this point, nothing you can do about it, but it would be just as wired for SI if you'd grown up in say Italy.

Yeah but just having somebody say cut me a board that's one third of a meter or 333 cm is probably not as practical as saying cut me a board that's one foot. Also I've never heard of decimeters ever being used, I'm aware that they exist as a unit of measurement. But I don't think they see much use.

Also 10cm is way bigger than 1/8 of an inch which is the most important ballpark you can possibly have. Since that tends to be the margin of error you are allowed, although for some things it's a 1/16th.

Also out of all of the people here I'm probably the person who does the most measuring on a daily basis, like by far I would imagine. I have used metric previously, and there are things that is very good at but there other things that it's simply not as good at as Imperial.

I'll note that many people have given concrete examples of things Imperial does better than SI. For example it's easy to divide whereas SI is not, and people tend to be ignoring those in favor of whatever I guess their third grade science teacher told them about how we should all switch over to metric.

I'm not saying that there is anything wrong with the metric system, I am saying that there are certain things that the imperial system is better suited for and that's very difficult to disprove. Again you have use cases where people who were brought up with the metric system use the imperial system because it is easier. And you have cases for example we have a system of tenths in the United States as well we have tenths of a foot, which again is used where it's better to use that but not where it isn't.

[2D8HP]

Canada is weird about units......

.....Water comes in liters but beer and liquor come in pints and ounces, things like that. Honestly I think metric is better for many reasons but I'd also be happy if it was just one or the other...

...The case of the British sportscasters is important because first Britain traditionally uses metric so that suggests in this use case ...

IIRC, in the novel 1984 (which I haven't read since 1981 or '82), an old "prol's" chief complaint about the "IngSoc" rule of "Air Strip One" is that he can't get a drink in a "pint glass".

---

68? Pleasantly warm?

....so, are there a lot of igloos around the Bay area?

No, that's the beauty of it, in a given year, even as much as ten days that it gets below freezing (32 degrees Fahrenheit, or 0 degrees Celsius) is extremely rare.

In some neighborhoods in San Francisco (and some nearby communities like Pacifica) it's a good bet that the temperature will be in the 50's (Fahrenheit), day or night, winter or summer.

[Peelee]

No, that's the beauty of it, in a given year, even as much as ten days that it gets below freezing (32 degrees Fahrenheit, or 0 degrees Celsius) is extremely rare.

In some neighborhoods in San Francisco (and some nearby communities like Pacifica) it's a good bet that the temperature will be in the 50's (Fahrenheit), day or night, winter or summer.

Look, the 50s may not make ice, but that's still freezing.

Right now, at about 8 EST, the sun has gone down and it's a nice balmy 86º (feels like 93º, according to weather.com). 66% humidity feels wonderful - not too muggy, not too dry. It's a delightful evening.

Meanwhile, you're at 64, feels like 62. It's still summer, man! I'd be surprised if it was even dark yet for you. You shouldn't be needing a sweater already. STOP THE MADNESS!

[2D8HP]

Meanwhile, you're at 64, feels like 62. It's still summer, man! I'd be surprised if it was even dark yet for you. You shouldn't be needing a sweater already. STOP THE MADNESS!

Unfortunetly your right, a heat wave is forecasted for tomorrow that will get us into the miserably hot 70's (22 to 26 Celsius to the non moon-walking lands).

Hopefully it won't last in The City (not a city, The City, or "The City and County" as we who work for it call it) of beautiful views, and wonderful weather (that mostly smells like pee).

[Liquor Box]

Well again it depends what you are actually referring to. There are field where the imperial system is more intuitive or more naturally easy to use.

The case of the British sportscasters is important because first Britain traditionally uses metric so that suggests in this use case it's probably more intuitive to use the other. Basically when they're talking about human weights and they have a choice of which they rather use they would rather use Imperial or British in this case since you have actual stone weight measurements.

Edit: and again I went over in my own life how you can be more intuitive with the imperial system over the metric system. There are certain things that the imperial system does very well that the metric system does not. And vis versa. For example the imperial system as a lot of finicky units of measurement which is useful if you have to measure a lot of things that are different in terms of how you would conceptualize them. A metric you have centimeters and then meters and that's a huge gap so it's very hard to conceptualize something that would be say 6 inches long in metric whereas in Imperial it's easy to conceptualize that. It's also easier to subdivide feet than it is meters since feet are divisible by 3, 4, and 2. Rather than by 5 and 2.

When you talk about your own life you are only talking about what is more intuitive to you, and what is intuitive to you will be largely shaped by the units of measurement you are most familiar with. There is nothing inherent in the practice of carpentry that suddenly makes imperial measurement more intuitive. Personally i find it very hard to conceptualise 6 inches, but very easy to conceptualise 15cm - that is nto because the metric system is more intuitive for carpentry either, but simply because what I am used to.

As for English sportscasters, I suggest that they tend to be older and use imperial measurements because that is what they learned in school - again more intuitive to them because that's what the know, rather than inhrenetly more intuitive. Generally England uses the metric system for classifying sports players height and weight just like most of the rest of the world
http://www.englandrugby.com/england/...mako-vunipola/

[Cazero]

Yeah but just having somebody say cut me a board that's one third of a meter or 333 cm is probably not as practical as saying cut me a board that's one foot.

Cut me a 3.28084 feet board. I mean 1 meter. Wichever unit has a nice looking number is going to be wichever unit you're starting from.

Also I've never heard of decimeters ever being used, I'm aware that they exist as a unit of measurement. But I don't think they see much use.

Only because two digits numbers aren't scary in the slightest, so people usualy use centimeters or meters with a single decimal digit instead.

[BWR]

Well again it depends what you are actually referring to. There are field where the imperial system is more intuitive or more naturally easy to use.

The case of the British sportscasters is important because first Britain traditionally uses metric so that suggests in this use case it's probably more intuitive to use the other. Basically when they're talking about human weights and they have a choice of which they rather use they would rather use Imperial or British in this case since you have actual stone weight measurements.

Edit: and again I went over in my own life how you can be more intuitive with the imperial system over the metric system. There are certain things that the imperial system does very well that the metric system does not. And vis versa. For example the imperial system as a lot of finicky units of measurement which is useful if you have to measure a lot of things that are different in terms of how you would conceptualize them. A metric you have centimeters and then meters and that's a huge gap so it's very hard to conceptualize something that would be say 6 inches long in metric whereas in Imperial it's easy to conceptualize that. It's also easier to subdivide feet than it is meters since feet are divisible by 3, 4, and 2. Rather than by 5 and 2.

I have to agree with Liquor Box: it's only intuitive to you because that's what you are used to and use most. If you grow up using metric, that's what is intuitive to use. Your reason for why Imperial is better smack of rationalization rather than any actual universal truth. Train yourself properly to do things in metric and you will find it equally easy and useful. Most of us don't really find decimal places intimidating (meters are divisible by all numbers, not just 5 and 2), nor is it a problem to remember a two digit number rather than a single digit (and if you get into fractions of inches, that's far worse than metric can ever be).

The Imperial system is, sadly used for a few things around here, like carpentry or the length of boats. Even in carpentry, I believe it's pretty much only the size of boards. This isn't because Imperial is so intuitive, it's because it was a standard used elsewhere and imported. Likewise with boats. If people get good at measuring things by eye in Imperial it isn't because it is an intuitive system, it is because people get good at things they do regularly.

[Peelee]

The Imperial system is, sadly used for a few things around here, like carpentry or the length of boats. Even in carpentry, I believe it's pretty much only the size of boards.

I'll accept American units for board sizes if they ever decide to be accurate. If I go buy a 2x4, it sure as hell ain't 2 inch by 4 inch. Now, I may not be that skilled at woodworking yet, but I'm pretty damn sure I can at least make a torch and pitchfork.

[Chen]

He said 2-4 degrees (Celsius). That's an amplitude only common on a very warm, humid day on a tropical zone. Most people living in a temperate zone regularly experience a daily variation of 7-12 Celsius degrees, when weather isn't particularly humid. So either he lives in the Caribbean (or a zone where for some reason day and night share similar temperatures), or he wasn't speaking about the weather. 2 degrees is too little to be concerned about in any scale anyway.

He said Celsius only uses 2-4 leading digits in the temperature change people normally experience. Not 2-4 degrees. For everyday usage this is pretty close to correct (depending on if you include negatives in there or not). Here we have some wild swings in temperature over the year but the range is still -40 to 40 more or less. Fahrenheit you'd be -40 to 110.

[AMFV]

When you talk about your own life you are only talking about what is more intuitive to you, and what is intuitive to you will be largely shaped by the units of measurement you are most familiar with. There is nothing inherent in the practice of carpentry that suddenly makes imperial measurement more intuitive. Personally i find it very hard to conceptualise 6 inches, but very easy to conceptualise 15cm - that is nto because the metric system is more intuitive for carpentry either, but simply because what I am used to.

Well, I used a lot of metric when I was in school. And then when I became a carpenter I had to use a lot of imperial. It's worth noting that I've had experience with both. Most people CANNOT conceptualize 6", because they don't work with that, they think they could, but they'd probably be an inch or so off either way.

It's also worth noting that I worked and studied surveying for a while, so I've had some experience with tenths of feet.

As for English sportscasters, I suggest that they tend to be older and use imperial measurements because that is what they learned in school - again more intuitive to them because that's what the know, rather than inhrenetly more intuitive. Generally England uses the metric system for classifying sports players height and weight just like most of the rest of the world
http://www.englandrugby.com/england/...mako-vunipola/

Yes, but not when talking about it. Also people in the UK often refer to their weight in pounds or stones when talking or being interviewed. Even people who were too young to have grown up on that system.

Cut me a 3.28084 feet board. I mean 1 meter. Wichever unit has a nice looking number is going to be wichever unit you're starting from.

You mean 3' 3 5/8" heavy? That's really easy to cut. Whereas .28084 is very difficult. Again imperial is much easier to subdivide. Because it's base 12, base 8, and base 16s. Seriously this is not hard to understand.

Also you're missing the point again, you don't need as many boards that are 3' 3 5/8" heavy on a job, you need a bunch that are one foot or two foot, or 16".

Only because two digits numbers aren't scary in the slightest, so people usualy use centimeters or meters with a single decimal digit instead.

That doesn't get you within an 1/8th bud. So whatever you'd be making would be completely messed up. Way worse if you're building a cabinet or furniture. Where you have to have things within a sixteenth.

I have to agree with Liquor Box: it's only intuitive to you because that's what you are used to and use most. If you grow up using metric, that's what is intuitive to use. Your reason for why Imperial is better smack of rationalization rather than any actual universal truth. Train yourself properly to do things in metric and you will find it equally easy and useful. Most of us don't really find decimal places intimidating (meters are divisible by all numbers, not just 5 and 2), nor is it a problem to remember a two digit number rather than a single digit (and if you get into fractions of inches, that's far worse than metric can ever be).

Fractions are much easier to use when laying things out than decimals are. That's why people use them in carpentry. And no, they aren't equally easy, because people who are trained to use tenths of a foot still switch over. Why are you guys ignoring half of what the only person here who actually does this sort of thing for a living is saying, and then inserting your own stuff.

Yes, it's possible to divide ten into thirds. But it's really difficult to measure .3333333333333333333 on a fricking tape. Whereas measuring 1/4 inch, or 3" on a tape is really fast, and way more accurate. That would be why people that use that.

The Imperial system is, sadly used for a few things around here, like carpentry or the length of boats. Even in carpentry, I believe it's pretty much only the size of boards. This isn't because Imperial is so intuitive, it's because it was a standard used elsewhere and imported. Likewise with boats. If people get good at measuring things by eye in Imperial it isn't because it is an intuitive system, it is because people get good at things they do regularly.

Man, that's really odd, that for the thing that I said imperial was better for, people use it even in countries that use metric. That seems almost like that would prove my point.

I'll accept American units for board sizes if they ever decide to be accurate. If I go buy a 2x4, it sure as hell ain't 2 inch by 4 inch. Now, I may not be that skilled at woodworking yet, but I'm pretty damn sure I can at least make a torch and pitchfork.

It is accurate a 2 x 4. Just doesn't actually mean that it's 2 x 4, it's 1 1/2" by 3 1/2". They're always that, like not even an 1/8" off. Lengthwise you usually have a couple extra sixteenths, mostly because when you cut the board into different divisions you'll wind up taking an 1/8" off every time because of the width of the blade.

[Eldan]

But see, that's only because for some weird reason, carpentry uses imperial standards in a lot of countries. I just looked it up online, our standard boards are apparently 12 by 2.4 cm. And the 2.4 is really only because that's about an inch. Our equivalent of 2x4 seems to be 24 by 48 mm.

If the American standard wasn't there, we'd live quite happily with 10 cm by 2 cm boards and 25 by 50 mm laths.

Same for the one third boards. 33.3 cm is exact enough for almost anything you need in carpentry, I'd bet.

[Chen]

Fractions are much easier to use when laying things out than decimals are. That's why people use them in carpentry. And no, they aren't equally easy, because people who are trained to use tenths of a foot still switch over. Why are you guys ignoring half of what the only person here who actually does this sort of thing for a living is saying, and then inserting your own stuff.

I work in aerospace and use imperial units for the most part. Decimals are still used for almost anything rather than fractions. I don't see what fractions or decimals have to do with the measurement system at all in fact.

Yes, it's possible to divide ten into thirds. But it's really difficult to measure .3333333333333333333 on a fricking tape. Whereas measuring 1/4 inch, or 3" on a tape is really fast, and way more accurate. That would be why people that use that.

This depends entirely on how your tape is delinated. Sure if its setup with marks every 1/8 of an inch it'll be easy to measure things in that basis. It'll still be pretty hard to measure 1/3 of an inch though. Again how is this relevant? If you build things to be within the commonly used delinations in a particular measurement system, of course it will be easy to measure them using the same system. That's basically a tautology. And it frankly has nothing to do with the system itself.

[Cazero]

You mean 3' 3 5/8" heavy? That's really easy to cut. Whereas .28084 is very difficult.

What a complicated number. I mean a simple and straightforward 1 meter, wich becomes a stupidly difficult number in imperial. That's the whole point : metric numbers look weird once converted to imperial, and imperial numbers look weird once converted to metric. It cuts both ways.

Again imperial is much easier to subdivide. Because it's base 12, base 8, and base 16s. Seriously this is not hard to understand.

Every base have numbers for wich it's easy to subdivide. And we're not talking about pi here, we don't have to bend over backward to adapt the system to the numbers. We can simply adapt the numbers to the system and use multiples of whatever numbers we want to be able to divide by. I'm pretty sure carpenters working in metric do exactly that.

[AMFV]

But see, that's only because for some weird reason, carpentry uses imperial standards in a lot of countries. I just looked it up online, our standard boards are apparently 12 by 2.4 cm. And the 2.4 is really only because that's about an inch. Our equivalent of 2x4 seems to be 24 by 48 mm.

If the American standard wasn't there, we'd live quite happily with 10 cm by 2 cm boards and 25 by 50 mm laths.

Same for the one third boards. 33.3 cm is exact enough for almost anything you need in carpentry, I'd bet.

So people in metric countries are often using imperial for carpentry. Case. Closed.


Seriously the only actual carpenter here has stated that imperial is better for it. And apparently people who are in the trade all over the world agree.

[Peelee]

It is accurate a 2 x 4. Just doesn't actually mean that it's 2 x 4, it's 1 1/2" by 3 1/2".

Let me rephrase my complaint.

Why's it called a 2x4?

[2D8HP]

As I said before, if we had a dozenal (duodecimal, base 12) instead of a decimal (base 10) system, I think metric would be better, but I do have a story of where metric may have been better:

The Foreman shouted out (because it was loud at the site) the length of pipe he wanted to the apprentice (me);

Skip: "Make it ....."

Me: "Make it what?"

Skip: " ....."

Me: "WHAT?"

Skip: " ....."

Me: "WHAT?"

Skip: "NINE, TWO"

Me:*cut's a 10 foot, and half an inch length of pipe down to be 9' 2" (nine feet and two inches) long*

Skip: "DAMNIT, WHAT THE HELL LENGTH IS THIS?!"

Me: "NINE FOOT, TWO SIR"

Skip: *slaps forehead* "NINETYTWO INCHES!!!."

Me: "oops?"

---

Nod for Greyview

[Grey_Wolf_c]

So people in metric countries are often using imperial for carpentry. Case. Closed.

"Medical professionals the world over depend on metric to not kill people"
"Sure, but carpenters use imperial. Case closed".

As arguments go, not the best one I have ever heard.

Neither, for that matter, is any based on how "intuitive" they are, since said "intuition" is actually familiarity. No metric country fails to understand how warm it is just because they use Celsius.

But conversion is a big issue. From my own experience, trying to figure out just how much salt/sugar/etc. there is in a container in the US is rendered almost impossible when some give it to me by the "cup", others by the "ounce" and others by the "spoon" (and probably others in other absurd metrics I am forgetting), and to convert from one to the other so I can compare is practically impossible without a calculator.

I like to cook, and every time I come across an American recipe it is a comedy of errors that cannot help but remind me of Gaiman/Pratchett's old dig at silly pre-decimal British currency:

NOTE FOR YOUNG PEOPLE AND AMERICANS: One shilling = Five Pee. It helps to understand the antique finances of the Witchfinder Army if you know the original British monetary system:

Two farthings = One Ha'penny. Two ha'pennies = One Penny. Three pennies = A Thrupenny Bit. Two Thrupences = A Sixpence. Two Sixpences = One Shilling, or Bob. Two Bob = A Florin. One Florin and one Sixpence = Half a Crown. Four Half Crowns = Ten Bob Note. Two Ten Bob Notes = One Pound (or 240 pennies). One Pound and One Shilling = One Guinea.

The British resisted decimalized currency for a long time because they thought it was too complicated.

You tell me how the imperial volume and weight system is not the same joke with slightly different numbers.

Grey Wolf

[AMFV]

Let me rephrase my complaint.

Why's it called a 2x4?

So they can sound like you're getting more.

As I said before, if we had a dozenal (duodecimal, base 12) instead of a decimal (base 10) system, I think metric would be better, but I do have a story of where metric may have been better:

The Foreman shouted out (because it was loud at the site) the length of pipe he wanted to the apprentice (me);

Skip: "Make it ....."

Me: "Make it what?"

Skip: " ....."

Me: "WHAT?"

Skip: " ....."

Me: "WHAT?"

Skip: "NINE, TWO"

Me:*cut's a 10 foot, and half an inch length of pipe down to be 9' 2" (nine feet and two inches) long*

Skip: "DAMNIT, WHAT THE HELL LENGTH IS THIS?!"

Me: "NINE FOOT, TWO SIR"

Skip: *slaps forehead* "NINETYTWO INCHES!!!."

Me: "oops?"

---

Nod for Greyview

I have done exactly the same.

"Medical professionals the world over depend on metric to not kill people"
"Sure, but carpenters use imperial. Case closed.
Grey Wolf

Right, but I wasn't arguing the imperial system was strictly better. Only better for carpentry. The fact that Carpenters in metric countries still use it is a pretty strong argument for that.

I also have said (more than once) that I think metric would be better for engineering, science and medicine.

[Chen]

So people in metric countries are often using imperial for carpentry. Case. Closed.

You argued that the imperial units and the standard sizes were such because they were easier to work with (all that dividing and measuring stuff). The example given is exactly the opposite of what you were arguing. They converted imperial units to metric ones and worked in metric even if the boards were the same sizes.

[monomer]

So they can sound like you're getting more.

Right, but I wasn't arguing the imperial system was strictly better. Only better for carpentry. The fact that Carpenters in metric countries still use it is a pretty strong argument for that.

I think the real reason why carpenters in some metric countries, like Canada, still use Imperial is due to inertia, not because one system is inherently better than the other.

For example, 30" and 36" doors had been standard in Canada since before we changed to the metric system. Technically we could change over to something like 90 cm doors, but then suppliers and distributors would have to keep two sizes of doors on hand to deal with new construction and renovations, stores would have to devote extra space to stock different sizes, and it becomes a huge logistical problem all the way up the chain. So since we're already stuck with 36" doors, it is easier to just stay with the units rather than try to deal with a 91.44 cm door, and since your doors and other fittings are already sized to inches, designing the rest of the house in metric doesn't make any sense.

Canada is also very strongly tied to America, both economically and socially, and it makes sense to have simple products that can be used in both countries, rather than having to design for both. It would be interesting to know if France, for example, uses standard units for carpentry.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

The fact that Carpenters in metric countries still use it is a pretty strong argument for that.

It's not a fact:

(random Portuguese carpentry picture).

It might still happen in countries that used to have imperial, but in my travels to non-ex-British-colonies, imperial is nowhere to be found. Napoleon made sure of that for Europe, and they exported it just as Britain did for theirs.

GW

[warty goblin]

Let me rephrase my complaint.

Why's it called a 2x4?

Because that's the nominal size, which hasn't actually been 2x4 inches since IIRC pre World War II. When actually building something, most of the time you don't actually want a 2x4 to be 2x4, since then you'd need a bigger than 2x4 inch hole for it. As it is, it'll fit a hole of that size easily, and the rest can be made up with shims. Besides which, the margin of error on most construction lumber is high enough that if you're basing your design on this particular board being exactly four inches wide, the nominal size not being the actual size will be the least of your problems.

[Peelee]

Because that's the nominal size, which hasn't actually been 2x4 inches since IIRC pre World War II. When actually building something, most of the time you don't actually want a 2x4 to be 2x4, since then you'd need a bigger than 2x4 inch hole for it.

I fail to see the problem. I'm assuming that the holes are designed around the standard lumber size. Making the standard lumber size the same as what it's named for would make the standard hole size bigger by default. Its not like there are natural construction holes these naturally fit into. It's all made by design. So saying, "the system we made specifically for it would be different if we made it specifically for slightly larger than it" is correct, yes, but also kind of meaningless.