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  1. - Top - End - #181
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    Default Re: The Nexus & City of Seven Seraphs - A planar metropolis with a new veilweaving cl

    Quote Originally Posted by Awun View Post
    The Avatar of Light veil states that it grants a lucent as a servant, but the Nexus playtest document does not include the creature's stats. Will it be included in a future version of the document or just in the final release of the book?
    The lucent was actually included in some of the releases. I think what happened was that as layout was being done the lucent got moved to the monster section of the book and out of the class. It'll definitely be in the final release, and I'll reach out to Christen to see if there's anywhere later backers can get access to the stats.

    At any rate, the new veilweaving classes and veils are fantastic. They all but beg to be put to use, but don't overshadow their predecessors. Something that is definitely worth noting, is that the increased versatility granted by so many new veils make veilweavers much more capable of competing with traditional spell casters who have a veritable mountain of spells at their disposal.
    Thank you! Those were all definitely the goals I was shooting for. The nexus in particular was designed to be very accessible and less of an "advanced" class, something that players with a minimal amount of play experience could still jump into quickly and easily. And of course, using that new page space to fill in even more functionality for all the classes with the greatly expanded veil lists was a big boon of this work.

    I also love the organization of the veils into themed sets, as this makes selecting them for role playing purposes or to fit a general character concept an absolute breeze.
    I actually started designing the veils in sets back in the original AM release, but never formalized the structure and that was actually something I've really regretted, so getting to come back and codify everything to increase that guidance and accessibility was something I was really looking forward to as I came on board with Lost Spheres. All three of the new akashic classes for Co7S use the new thematic veil set structure, and the expansion materials I've written that Lost Spheres will be releasing as part of the Co7S product line (but not the main release) will continue to use that format, including with some of the veil reprints that will be featured. Christen and I have been busy planning and writing new materials not just for Co7S (which I, personally, am largely finished with at this point, with the exception of maintenance and updates related to feedback on the alpha and beta docs for the akashic classes and materials), but also for supporting lines. We've already got a new class that will push the akashic system into new territory queued up for when layout and editing are finished with the Co7S priority materials, as well as new veil sets, akashic feats, archetypes, and more. Expect it to be a very good year for fans of the akashic magic subsystem

  2. - Top - End - #182
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    d20 Re: The Nexus & City of Seven Seraphs - A planar metropolis with a new veilweaving cl

    Quote Originally Posted by Awun View Post
    The Avatar of Light veil states that it grants a lucent as a servant, but the Nexus playtest document does not include the creature's stats. Will it be included in a future version of the document or just in the final release of the book?.
    We have added a separate downloadable lucent stat sheet to make sure everyone gets it...

    We also added.... the Eclipse base class playtest.

  3. - Top - End - #183
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    Default Re: The Nexus & City of Seven Seraphs - A planar metropolis with a new veilweaving cl

    Eclipse is really cool, great take on a shadowdancer type character. A few questions and thoughts for it:

    1. If you and your occultation both have an enemy threatened that provokes and AoO, can you both take one (at the cost of using two AoOs from your pool, Combat Reflexes a must!)?
    2. The Darkness Dragon belt bind says its attacks may benefit from any enigma you know. Are they restricted in the same way, requiring the dragon to do an attack action with a single natural weapon it has, or does each of its attacks qualify as a "use of a targeted veil ability"? The latter seems pretty strong, but it is a level 16/18 ability, and the dragon itself is fragile so maybe that's fine. As a related followup, attacks with weapon-like veils in general don't count for enigma as a "targeted veil ability" and instead have to use the attack action to get an enigma correct?
    3. Growing Darkness enigma wording uses the singular "against the affected target" but the enigma ability is clear that veil abilities that target multiple creatures such as Riven Darts hands bind qualify for enigmas. With a multi-target veil ability such as this, is Growing Darkness intended to repeat the entire use against all targets, or just a single one? My guess is the intent is the former.
    4. Another Growing Darkness concern, it says it activates the veil again, which as far as I can tell means the second activation would qualify for another enigma, potentially allowing you to loop Growing Darkness. Maybe just add some text that the second activation is considered part of the first one, which would stop this with the already existing "The eclipse can only use a single enigma on a given attack action or veil ability activation" text?
    5. How does Dark Intensity interact with the Twin Veil feat? Can you triple shape onto one slot if you pick the same one with the class feature as the feat? And if you do separate ones, does having two veils in the Hands slot through Twin Veil activate the attack action bonus while having two veils in the Feet slot through Dark Intensity?
    6. The 19th level Shadow Armor ability doesn't seem to work at all. Shadow armor abilities only function when you don't have an occultation, but Second life requires you to consume your occultation for it to function. This paradox seems to hinder its ability to do its job.
    7. While I'm sure it's not the intent, the text of the Darkholds Wrist bind says that you "deflect attacks into the nondimensional space within your gauntlets", the same space you're storing items. Someone... less generous might say an item in there gets hit when you do deflect, especially if it's a splash weapon like an Alchemist's bomb.
    8. Sable Shots essence benefit says "darts fired from these hand crossbows" but all crossbows (including hand ones) fire bolts, not darts.
    9. Nothingness Shroud in Void's Embrace set is listed first before Gauntlets of the Void, order should be swapped.
    10. Why does Gauntlets of the Void veil only create a singlet gauntlet?
    11. A no save staggered on crit from Voidblade seems very strong, especially once Improved Critical and the +1 round duration increase come into play. It comes online earlier and compares favorably to the Staggering Critical feat, while also having other bonuses like the attack roll debuff on non-crits.


    I really like the set of new weapon-like veils in the Eclipse doc, from the black hole flails to the hand crossbows that attack with darkness (rather than attacking it ). The capstone is neat, though the ability to steal unique slot veils such as Ring and Blood doesn't actually do anything right now since there are no Ring or Blood veils with the darkness descriptor. I know it's a separate publisher and all but I like the slight silliness of using a veil to create a gauntlet from Gauntlets of the Void veil, and then using that gauntlet as the focus for a Fiend's Grip from the Fiendbound Marauder archetype in Path of War: Expanded (even if it wouldn't be a very good combination because the Fiend's Grip wouldn't benefit from the additional cold damage with essence). Using magic to create a weapon that you use more magic on to create another weapon!

    And thanks for giving the Lucent stats back!

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    Default Re: The Nexus & City of Seven Seraphs - A planar metropolis with a new veilweaving cl

    Issues found Dark Intensity should be with "up to two weapon" not "up two weapons". Cloak of Darkness Veil the way its currently worded it only gives bonus' in dim light shouldn't that be dim or darker?

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    Default Re: The Nexus & City of Seven Seraphs - A planar metropolis with a new veilweaving cl

    Wow, the combination of Darkwalker Hood and Sable Shots seems like a super great combination. Definitely liking the Eclipse thus far.
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    Default Re: The Nexus & City of Seven Seraphs - A planar metropolis with a new veilweaving cl

    I was wondering, will we be seeing any archetypes for the akashic classes, whether the old ones or new? Because I'd love to see an Eclipse archetype that operates in the reverse direction on bright light instead of darkness, flipping what the abilities work off of but also all the darkness veils into light veils.

  7. - Top - End - #187
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    Default Re: The Nexus & City of Seven Seraphs - A planar metropolis with a new veilweaving cl

    Been looking through the Eclipse since I got off work and I have to say, I adore it flavor wise and the mechanics are pretty nice too. But one thing is a bit odd to me.

    They're the masters of the shadow and darkness veils, but they're the worst at using them. They get their binds for them far later than everyone else, and while I understand that they're a 3/4th BAB class with their Enigmas and the Occultation to help them out in combat, I feel like that they could use some love in the flavor.

    Maybe an ability to - with some specific veils - bind it earlier than the others if it has the [Shadow] descriptor or similar? As is, a Vizier or Daevic (or even the Nexus) are generally -better- at using the Eclipse's veils. The Eclipse needs them less, but it's just having the regular Vizier or similar just straight better at using their niche than them.

    (I'm not counting the Darkness Dragon here, because that's its own thing - the fact that it can apply Enigmas to its attacks at level 18 isn't much of a consideration, because most games will never go to level 18.)

    That's another thought too; maybe give more of the veils specific Enigma/Occultation interaction beyond just being able to use it from the Occultation's square.


    E: To be clear, it isn't power that I have a problem with. I haven't played with the class enough for that to be a thing I'm considering at all yet. I mostly just have a problem with the other Veilweavers being so much better at using Shadow veils than the Eclipse, especially one like the Daevic (which is on a better chassis to begin with).
    Last edited by Galacktic; 2018-01-14 at 10:38 PM.

  8. - Top - End - #188
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    Default Re: The Nexus & City of Seven Seraphs - A planar metropolis with a new veilweaving cl

    yep reaper has come boys. eclipse looks sweet but i wish we can use void blade as arm blade instead of great sword but who cares. nazgul is in the pathfinder.
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  9. - Top - End - #189
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    Default Re: The Nexus & City of Seven Seraphs - A planar metropolis with a new veilweaving cl

    come to think of it why can ecilipse create more Occultation then one( or two with enigma). since we have the toys to crate nazgul. but creating one per turn makes to much hassle even if you have the time so I am gonna ask this can we create multiple Occultation at same time or can we get it as enigma power pretty please?
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    Default Re: The Nexus & City of Seven Seraphs - A planar metropolis with a new veilweaving cl

    You know, I didn't think I'd like the Eclipse when I first read the description. Just seemed off to me. But after reading the Alpha, I must say I quite enjoy it. I guess I'll have to add it as another "must try ASAP" to my list, which is getting pretty long, especially as I don't think I'll be having any games starting anytime soon.

    Quote Originally Posted by khadgar567 View Post
    come to think of it why can ecilipse create more Occultation then one( or two with enigma). since we have the toys to crate nazgul. but creating one per turn makes to much hassle even if you have the time so I am gonna ask this can we create multiple Occultation at same time or can we get it as enigma power pretty please?
    Well, you could set them up precombat, in stealth, which seems to be a thing this class would like. They look like normal shadows unless the person can make their Knowledge: Arcana check, so you should be able to just plop them into a normal shadow, and keep ploping out more until you are ready to strike and reveal your shadow army! lol.

  11. - Top - End - #191
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    Default Re: The Nexus & City of Seven Seraphs - A planar metropolis with a new veilweaving cl

    Quote Originally Posted by Lost_Spheres View Post
    Eldest, thank you for your support! We did send out some playtest docs to a few people on the BackerKit lists last week. Please check your spam folders to see if you have a complimentary mailing from RPGNow or DriveThruRPG from us. If you don't please email us here and we will get this sorted out as soon as possible.
    This got resolved, by the way, thank you.
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    Default Re: The Nexus & City of Seven Seraphs - A planar metropolis with a new veilweaving cl

    Quote Originally Posted by Galacktic View Post
    Been looking through the Eclipse since I got off work and I have to say, I adore it flavor wise and the mechanics are pretty nice too. But one thing is a bit odd to me.

    They're the masters of the shadow and darkness veils, but they're the worst at using them. They get their binds for them far later than everyone else, and while I understand that they're a 3/4th BAB class with their Enigmas and the Occultation to help them out in combat, I feel like that they could use some love in the flavor.
    This has come up in playtesting flavorwise but with enigmas stacking to all weaponlike/targeting veils and capacity to utilize them through occultations, we have been very hesitant to up access to veils because of the edges in usage. We will run some more against daevic and other builds to confirm our initial data but access limits seem the best way to balance against the eclipse's advantages in using their veils. We definitely can see the flavor wrinkle though and may adjust some of the text to support it better.

    A playtester commented that he didn't "get it" until he realized that Occultation and Enigma are the "sneak attack" to the "dagger" of the Eclipse's veils. Still we will keep looking at the text to smooth the issues with consistency.
    Last edited by Lost_Spheres; 2018-01-15 at 01:13 PM.

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    Default Re: The Nexus & City of Seven Seraphs - A planar metropolis with a new veilweaving cl

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldest View Post
    This got resolved, by the way, thank you.
    Awesome! Please let us know if you have any other issues!

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    Default Re: The Nexus & City of Seven Seraphs - A planar metropolis with a new veilweaving cl

    Quote Originally Posted by AlienFromBeyond View Post
    Eclipse is really cool, great take on a shadowdancer type character. A few questions and thoughts for it:


    If you and your occultation both have an enemy threatened that provokes and AoO, can you both take one (at the cost of using two AoOs from your pool, Combat Reflexes a must!)?
    Yes.

    The Darkness Dragon belt bind says its attacks may benefit from any enigma you know. Are they restricted in the same way, requiring the dragon to do an attack action with a single natural weapon it has, or does each of its attacks qualify as a "use of a targeted veil ability"? The latter seems pretty strong, but it is a level 16/18 ability, and the dragon itself is fragile so maybe that's fine.
    The Darkness Dragon still needs to meet the requirements for using an enigma, so typically it's going to need to choose between an enigma-enhanced attack action, an essence-pumped full attack, or a breath weapon attack.

    As a related followup, attacks with weapon-like veils in general don't count for enigma as a "targeted veil ability" and instead have to use the attack action to get an enigma correct?
    Correct. A "targeted veil effect" is going to be something like Riven Darts, the chakram effect of the Bangles of the Jealous Seductress bind, or the effects of the Cerebral Catastrophe Cinch.

    Growing Darkness enigma wording uses the singular "against the affected target" but the enigma ability is clear that veil abilities that target multiple creatures such as Riven Darts hands bind qualify for enigmas. With a multi-target veil ability such as this, is Growing Darkness intended to repeat the entire use against all targets, or just a single one? My guess is the intent is the former.
    Yes, Growing Darkness is essentially the eclipse's "Quicken Spell" for veil effects, so it's intended to let you repeat the initial effect.

    Another Growing Darkness concern, it says it activates the veil again, which as far as I can tell means the second activation would qualify for another enigma, potentially allowing you to loop Growing Darkness. Maybe just add some text that the second activation is considered part of the first one, which would stop this with the already existing "The eclipse can only use a single enigma on a given attack action or veil ability activation" text?
    That's exactly how it's supposed to work, yes. I'll tidy up Growing Darkness to address both questions.


    How does Dark Intensity interact with the Twin Veil feat? Can you triple shape onto one slot if you pick the same one with the class feature as the feat? And if you do separate ones, does having two veils in the Hands slot through Twin Veil activate the attack action bonus while having two veils in the Feet slot through Dark Intensity?
    You can stack Dark Intensity with Twin Veil if you want, having up to three veils in your Hands or Feet slot if you choose, though normal limitations on bonus type stacking and such still apply. The additional bonuses are specific to the veil granted by Dark Intensity; shaping an extra veil in your Hands or Feet slot with a separate ability like Twin Veil won't trigger the bonus abilities of Dark Intensity.


    The 19th level Shadow Armor ability doesn't seem to work at all. Shadow armor abilities only function when you don't have an occultation, but Second life requires you to consume your occultation for it to function. This paradox seems to hinder its ability to do its job.
    I'll revisit the wording on that. I cleaned up occultation during development to make some other abilities read "cleaner" by separating out the shadow armor and occultation functions and that didn't get cleaned up quite as well as the other functions. I've updated the wording in the source doc to say "consume a portion of their darkness energy", removing the reference to an occultation to clarify the function.

    While I'm sure it's not the intent, the text of the Darkholds Wrist bind says that you "deflect attacks into the nondimensional space within your gauntlets", the same space you're storing items. Someone... less generous might say an item in there gets hit when you do deflect, especially if it's a splash weapon like an Alchemist's bomb.
    I've added a line to specify that using the deflection ability does not affect any items stored within the Darkholds.

    Sable Shots essence benefit says "darts fired from these hand crossbows" but all crossbows (including hand ones) fire bolts, not darts.
    Updated accordingly!

    Nothingness Shroud in Void's Embrace set is listed first before Gauntlets of the Void, order should be swapped.
    Updated accordingly.

    Why does Gauntlets of the Void veil only create a singlet gauntlet?
    It was actually "gauntlet" of the void, but there was some concern that it would be misinterpreted as requiring the spiked gauntlet weapon hand to be used with the bind ability to wield a two-handed weapon in one hand; you're supposed to be able to use the veil to wield a two-handed weapon in one hand and the gauntlet in the other. If it's less confusing to remove the "s" from the veil title I can clip that back out.

    A no save staggered on crit from Voidblade seems very strong, especially once Improved Critical and the +1 round duration increase come into play. It comes online earlier and compares favorably to the Staggering Critical feat, while also having other bonuses like the attack roll debuff on non-crits.
    I've tagged a note on this veil to watch for any further feedback. I do agree it's a very potent ability, but it's also a not-insignificant amount of resource and probably your primary offensive option if you're using it. We'll do some testing and additional evaluation and watch for further feedback, but I'm not going to jump on a change just yet. If we do end up deciding it's appropriate to shift that staggered ability, we'll probably move it to a function of invested essence for the weapon to match it up with a capacity threshold that's closer to the Staggering Critical feat.

    I really like the set of new weapon-like veils in the Eclipse doc, from the black hole flails to the hand crossbows that attack with darkness (rather than attacking it ).
    Thanks! I knew as soon as we decided that the Eclipse was going to be an akashic class that a big part of what I wanted to do with it was give it some really unique weaponry, while of course simultaneously opening up some of those cool toys to the other akashic classes.

    The capstone is neat, though the ability to steal unique slot veils such as Ring and Blood doesn't actually do anything right now since there are no Ring or Blood veils with the darkness descriptor.
    Forward-looking design is always important. We're not just putting out a book with three akashic classes and some other materials that aren't going to see support, we're launching a new product line, and part of that product line is going to include new releases of akashic materials, so if we're going to create a class feature that says "you get all veils with the darkness descriptor", we want to make clear up front that that really means all such veils, both those that are already out there, and those we might introduce in the future.

    And thanks for giving the Lucent stats back!
    Of course! Sorry that the lucent got lost in the mix, there's just a lot of moving parts when it comes to assembling a book and what works in a class submission doesn't necessarily make sense for the final book, so things get chopped up and moved around.

    Quote Originally Posted by calyst View Post
    Issues found Dark Intensity should be with "up to two weapon" not "up two weapons". Cloak of Darkness Veil the way its currently worded it only gives bonus' in dim light shouldn't that be dim or darker?
    Yes, Cloak of Darkness should be "dim or darker" lighting. Both of these have been updated accordingly. Thanks for the catch!

    Quote Originally Posted by khadgar567 View Post
    yep reaper has come boys. eclipse looks sweet but i wish we can use void blade as arm blade instead of great sword but who cares. nazgul is in the pathfinder.
    Voidblade being part of the Void's Embrace set is, in part, intended to allow it to pair up naturally with Gauntlets of the Void so that you can use it one-handed

    Quote Originally Posted by Biapolis View Post
    You know, I didn't think I'd like the Eclipse when I first read the description. Just seemed off to me. But after reading the Alpha, I must say I quite enjoy it. I guess I'll have to add it as another "must try ASAP" to my list, which is getting pretty long, especially as I don't think I'll be having any games starting anytime soon.
    I'm glad you ended up pleasantly surprised! Out of curiosity, was there anything specific you can think of about the description that had turned you off initially?

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    Default Re: The Nexus & City of Seven Seraphs - A planar metropolis with a new veilweaving cl

    Just a suggestion: is it too late in the project to change some of the class names? Eclipse and Radiant seem rather specific in their titles and don't sound like something a fantasy character would introduce themselves as.

    If it were up to me, I would call the Radiant something like the Luminary and the Eclipse the Obscurist. These seem much more like titles that would be used to describe one's abilities, and just have a nice ring to them.
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    Default Re: The Nexus & City of Seven Seraphs - A planar metropolis with a new veilweaving cl

    Quote Originally Posted by AlienFromBeyond View Post
    I was wondering, will we be seeing any archetypes for the akashic classes, whether the old ones or new? Because I'd love to see an Eclipse archetype that operates in the reverse direction on bright light instead of darkness, flipping what the abilities work off of but also all the darkness veils into light veils.
    Co7S will have new passions, philosophies, and mystic attunements for the daevic, guru, and vizier, as well as some racial archetypes and other thematic options for the new akashic classes, but to my knowledge we don't have a light-inversion eclipse option, and all the page-count is pretty much spoken for. That being said, Christen and I already have some follow-up materials written and queued up to continue supporting Co7S and expanding support for the akashic classes with new akashic feats, veil sets, and other options, so that's definitely something that could see support in future products.


    Quote Originally Posted by Thealtruistorc View Post
    Just a suggestion: is it too late in the project to change some of the class names? Eclipse and Radiant seem rather specific in their titles and don't sound like something a fantasy character would introduce themselves as.

    If it were up to me, I would call the Radiant something like the Luminary and the Eclipse the Obscurist. These seem much more like titles that would be used to describe one's abilities, and just have a nice ring to them.
    I'm... not sure whether or not we're too far in for name changes. We might be, the names have been out there for a bit and are probably being used in quite a few different areas of the book that are being developed by different contributors, as well as blog posts, the Kickstarter page, etc. I actually like the current names since I think they evoke the raw nature of the class and aren't really used much in other core classes or archetypes. Eclipse, Nexus, and Radiant all kind of have a simple to say and evocative naming convention that I think works well within the planar adventure setting they're showcased in, and they sound good together. To me, Luminary implies a scholarly bent that the Radiant doesn't really have and the Obscurist feels like an archetype focused on hiding information, but I also don't really think of characters introducing themselves by their class name as opposed to a more general statement about what they do. We'll keep our ears open for more feedback on the naming conventions though.

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    Default Re: The Nexus & City of Seven Seraphs - A planar metropolis with a new veilweaving cl

    Looking through the Radiant and noticed a couple of things.

    - In the Ceradon’s Eternity veil it says, "You gain the ability to place yourself or a willing touched creature in a state of temporal stasis as a standard action, preventing any negative effects with a recurring frequency (such as disease, poison, or bleed damage) from occurring", but this is currently a little misleading. Temporal stasis is usually synonymous with paralysis and being completely immune to damage/interaction. Further reading makes it clear that the stasis only applies to negative effects but there is nothing in the language to actually correct an errant reading that assumes the paralysis version. I would suggest changing the wording to something like, "You gain the ability to place yourself or a willing touched creature in a state of partial temporal stasis (leaving the creature free to act and be acted upon) as a standard action, preventing any negative effects...", or something like that to clarify before any potential chaos.

    - In the Hyandil’s Flowered Regalia veil, "Chakra Bind (Neck): [D16, N14, R12, V14]", shows Daeva instead of Guru.

    - The Verdant Vambraces veil needs some clarification. Are the grass and weeds created by the base veil permanent creations/alterations? The answer is even more relevant to the gargantuan tree produced at 6 points of investment. Is this a source of 'free' lumber (for 6 points, why not?)? If not, does the Radiant now have a 60 ft pseudo-elevator that goes up and down with re-investment? It is clear that the difficult ground/entanglement is dismissable, but the Hands bind implies that it is otherwise permanent (until you want to put another down somewhere else). Does it remain even after the veil is unbound? The current wording implies that it might. I don't think that was intended.

    - In the favored class section it references Nexus instead of Radiant.
    Last edited by Quarian Rex; 2018-01-16 at 02:31 AM.
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    Default Re: The Nexus & City of Seven Seraphs - A planar metropolis with a new veilweaving cl

    Quote Originally Posted by Quarian Rex View Post
    Looking through the Radiant and noticed a couple of things.

    - In the Ceradon’s Eternity veil it says, "You gain the ability to place yourself or a willing touched creature in a state of temporal stasis as a standard action, preventing any negative effects with a recurring frequency (such as disease, poison, or bleed damage) from occurring", but this is currently a little misleading. Temporal stasis is usually synonymous with paralysis and being completely immune to damage/interaction. Further reading makes it clear that the stasis only applies to negative effects but there is nothing in the language to actually correct an errant reading that assumes the paralysis version. I would suggest changing the wording to something like, "You gain the ability to place yourself or a willing touched creature in a state of partial temporal stasis (leaving the creature free to act and be acted upon) as a standard action, preventing any negative effects...", or something like that to clarify before any potential chaos.
    Temporal stasis isn't really a defined term. It's the name of a spell that can put someone in a state of suspended animation, but it isn't defined terminology as such. That being said, I think adding the word "partial" to help further separate it from the spell is a good call and have made that update in the source docs accordingly.


    - In the Hyandil’s Flowered Regalia veil, "Chakra Bind (Neck): [D16, N14, R12, V14]", shows Daeva instead of Guru.
    Fixed!

    - The Verdant Vambraces veil needs some clarification. Are the grass and weeds created by the base veil permanent creations/alterations?
    No, they have a fixed duration of 1d4 + 1/essence rounds before they dissipate.

    If not, does the Radiant now have a 60 ft pseudo-elevator that goes up and down with re-investment?
    I mean, yeah, if you want. Seems like a reasonably entertaining use of a swift action.


    It is clear that the difficult ground/entanglement is dismissable, but the Hands bind implies that it is otherwise permanent (until you want to put another down somewhere else). Does it remain even after the veil is unbound? The current wording implies that it might. I don't think that was intended.
    It can't outlast the veil. There's exactly one exception to that rule at this point and it's very specifically called out in the Heart of Yggdrasil. Once the veil is unshaped, it is no longer bound to your Hands chakra and so you no longer have the ability to maintain it indefinitely per the ability itself.

    - In the favored class section it references Nexus instead of Radiant.
    I'm not seeing this in my copies of the class, so I'm assuming it's some old copypasta that was already caught and just hasn't been updated in the beta doc that went out. Thanks for looking out though!

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    Default Re: The Nexus & City of Seven Seraphs - A planar metropolis with a new veilweaving cl

    Quote Originally Posted by Ssalarn View Post
    It was actually "gauntlet" of the void, but there was some concern that it would be misinterpreted as requiring the spiked gauntlet weapon hand to be used with the bind ability to wield a two-handed weapon in one hand; you're supposed to be able to use the veil to wield a two-handed weapon in one hand and the gauntlet in the other. If it's less confusing to remove the "s" from the veil title I can clip that back out.
    I see, I will readily admit that I just kind of assumed that I had to use the two-handed weapon in the hand of the gauntlet to get the one-handed benefit, instead of the intended use case you present of gauntlet in one-hand and using the Voidblade in the other. That said, I kind of would prefer the "s" removed from the veil if it's going to stay with a single gauntlet, though honestly I kind of like the idea of changing the veil to just give a pair of gauntlets and keep the name as is instead. Having a pair means it opens up the option of TWF with the veil for class features that care about gauntlets specifically, such as the Vigilante's Fist of the Avenger vigilante talent or the Iron Tyrant archetype for the Antipaladin. It also would mean no worries about someone accidentally misinterpreting like I did on whether the two-handed weapon needs to be wielded with a gauntlet'd hand, as both of them would be. Plus, they're just gauntlets, even with the additional cold damage per essence the base damage is still bad and they have awful crit stats so it wouldn't even be overpowered.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ssalarn View Post
    Forward-looking design is always important. We're not just putting out a book with three akashic classes and some other materials that aren't going to see support, we're launching a new product line, and part of that product line is going to include new releases of akashic materials, so if we're going to create a class feature that says "you get all veils with the darkness descriptor", we want to make clear up front that that really means all such veils, both those that are already out there, and those we might introduce in the future.
    That's what I figured, working in software future-proofing is a good thing indeed! Maybe add a single new Blood or Ring darkness veil you may or may not be working on as a taste now for the later books while also making the capstone feel cooler with it giving you something very unique? Otherwise it feels a little lacking for level 20, it gives a little more versatility by unlocking more veils to choose from (but not use), let's you see in the dark real good, gives +2 to all your important rolls/stats when it's dark and then turns around and gives you a -2 penalty when in the light, which is very very common. The impact seems very tame, I'd love to see stuff like gaining bonus dark essence that can only go in darkness veils, ability to shape more veils as long as they are darkness, even just dimming the light around you constantly (as almost everything the Eclipse has works on at most dim light). For being "one with the darkness" they sure lack the ability to move or create it.

    Also, I just realized I forgot to check in about the interactions of enigmas with the Riven Darts veil (as it's the only targeted but multiple targets veil I could at 2 in the morning). If you pick an enigma such as Channeled Shadowstrike, the extra damage would apply to all targets of Riven Darts as long as they qualify (flanked, flat-footed, etc.)? The wording for when an enigma works doesn't seem to take into account a targeted veil ability that uses an attack roll (but isn't a weapon or an attack action) instead of a saving throw as it states, "If the attack [action is implied] misses or the target succeeds on their save against the veil effect". On top of that, Riven Darts can hit an individual target up to twice, and I would want to make sure that it both doesn't apply an enigma twice against a single target and also that the enigma still occurs even if only one of two attacks hits, the wording is such that if you did an attack action with two attacks and one of them misses then "the effects of the enigma are wasted". Basically the sentence saying when the enigma doesn't occur seems to make it more confusing over writing when the enigma does occur aka if you hit or the enemy fails their save, at most once per enemy per activation/attack.

    Now if I can just convince someone I play with to let me play the class in a real game...

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    Default Re: The Nexus & City of Seven Seraphs - A planar metropolis with a new veilweaving cl

    Quote Originally Posted by Ssalarn View Post
    Temporal stasis isn't really a defined term. It's the name of a spell that can put someone in a state of suspended animation, but it isn't defined terminology as such.
    Yup, I'm aware, just a clarity thing. The idea that the temporal stasis is so hyper specific may be foreign to some and so cause chaos at the game table (I have seen/had to deal with it). Ounce of prevention and all that.

    No, they have a fixed duration of 1d4 + 1/essence rounds before they dissipate.
    I assumed that was specifically for the entangled condition, not necessarily for any created plantlife. Any chance we could get the text slightly amended to, "Tall grass, weeds, and other plants spring up in a 20 ft. by 20 ft. square within 40 ft. to wrap around creatures in the area of effect or those that enter the area for 1d4 rounds before dissipating."?

    I'm not seeing this in my copies of the class, so I'm assuming it's some old copypasta that was already caught and just hasn't been updated in the beta doc that went out.
    I might have an older version or something. I can't check the current releases because the download link has expired (I only grabbed the Eclipse and the Lucent, thinking that nothing had changed in the other docs).

    Just to be sure, it was here in my copy...
    Quote Originally Posted by Radiant Class
    Favored Class Bonuses
    The following favored class options are available to all characters of the listed race who have nexus as
    their favored class, and unless otherwise stated, the bonus applies each time you select the favored
    class reward.


    It can't outlast the veil. There's exactly one exception to that rule at this point and it's very specifically called out in the Heart of Yggdrasil. Once the veil is unshaped, it is no longer bound to your Hands chakra and so you no longer have the ability to maintain it indefinitely per the ability itself.
    That is generally the assumption, but when a duration becomes indefinite (something that doesn't have a proper game term) then things get fuzzy with specific trumping general and all that. Also, the wording in the Hands bind of, "you may maintain one additional instance of the veil’s primary effect indefinitely", seems to imply that it allows an additional instance that is also indefinite, something that seems unintended considering all of the vegetation is supposed to disappear in 1d4+Essence rounds.

    How about adjusting the wording to something like, "While this veil is bound to your Hands chakra, you may maintain one additional separate instance of the veil’s primary effect indefinitely (so long as the veil remains bound), creating trees or...". Those two additions (or something like them) would remove all doubt of what indefinite means in this context and that it applies solely to this one instance of the power.

    I am aware that it may seem like I'm beating a dead horse here but I have had to have lengthy discussions with players at the game table about ambiguous wording despite apparently clear RAI. It causes me the pain. I try to prevent the pain.
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    Default Re: The Nexus & City of Seven Seraphs - A planar metropolis with a new veilweaving cl

    Should gauntlet of the void have the wording where you can use your veilweaver level in place of your BAB to hit as other veiks do?

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    Default Re: The Nexus & City of Seven Seraphs - A planar metropolis with a new veilweaving cl

    Quote Originally Posted by AlienFromBeyond View Post
    I see, I will readily admit that I just kind of assumed that I had to use the two-handed weapon in the hand of the gauntlet to get the one-handed benefit, instead of the intended use case you present of gauntlet in one-hand and using the Voidblade in the other. That said, I kind of would prefer the "s" removed from the veil if it's going to stay with a single gauntlet, though honestly I kind of like the idea of changing the veil to just give a pair of gauntlets and keep the name as is instead. Having a pair means it opens up the option of TWF with the veil for class features that care about gauntlets specifically, such as the Vigilante's Fist of the Avenger vigilante talent or the Iron Tyrant archetype for the Antipaladin. It also would mean no worries about someone accidentally misinterpreting like I did on whether the two-handed weapon needs to be wielded with a gauntlet'd hand, as both of them would be. Plus, they're just gauntlets, even with the additional cold damage per essence the base damage is still bad and they have awful crit stats so it wouldn't even be overpowered.
    Agreed, and updated in the source docs accordingly.

    That's what I figured, working in software future-proofing is a good thing indeed! Maybe add a single new Blood or Ring darkness veil you may or may not be working on as a taste now for the later books while also making the capstone feel cooler with it giving you something very unique? Otherwise it feels a little lacking for level 20, it gives a little more versatility by unlocking more veils to choose from (but not use), let's you see in the dark real good, gives +2 to all your important rolls/stats when it's dark and then turns around and gives you a -2 penalty when in the light, which is very very common. The impact seems very tame, I'd love to see stuff like gaining bonus dark essence that can only go in darkness veils, ability to shape more veils as long as they are darkness, even just dimming the light around you constantly (as almost everything the Eclipse has works on at most dim light). For being "one with the darkness" they sure lack the ability to move or create it.
    No promises on this one, but I'll look into it and see if there's some tweaks we can make to give it a little more "oomph".

    Also, I just realized I forgot to check in about the interactions of enigmas with the Riven Darts veil (as it's the only targeted but multiple targets veil I could at 2 in the morning). If you pick an enigma such as Channeled Shadowstrike, the extra damage would apply to all targets of Riven Darts as long as they qualify (flanked, flat-footed, etc.)?
    Correct.

    The wording for when an enigma works doesn't seem to take into account a targeted veil ability that uses an attack roll (but isn't a weapon or an attack action) instead of a saving throw as it states, "If the attack [action is implied] misses or the target succeeds on their save against the veil effect". On top of that, Riven Darts can hit an individual target up to twice, and I would want to make sure that it both doesn't apply an enigma twice against a single target and also that the enigma still occurs even if only one of two attacks hits, the wording is such that if you did an attack action with two attacks and one of them misses then "the effects of the enigma are wasted". Basically the sentence saying when the enigma doesn't occur seems to make it more confusing over writing when the enigma does occur aka if you hit or the enemy fails their save, at most once per enemy per activation/attack.
    Expanded that block of text to read "If the weapon or veil attack misses, or if the target succeeds on their save against the veil affect, the effects of the enigma are wasted. If the veil effect grants multiple attack rolls, only one attack roll needs to connect to deliver the enigma's effects. The eclipse can only apply the effects of a single enigma on a given attack action or veil ability activation; if a veil grants multiple attacks against a single target as part of its activation, only one attack benefits from the enigma’s effects." That should clear up any confusion.


    Now if I can just convince someone I play with to let me play the class in a real game...
    Good luck! We've been having a blast with it so far!

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    Default Re: The Nexus & City of Seven Seraphs - A planar metropolis with a new veilweaving cl

    Apologies for the double-post, it was brought to my attention that I had skipped over a couple posters without responding the other day.

    Quote Originally Posted by Quarian Rex View Post
    Yup, I'm aware, just a clarity thing. The idea that the temporal stasis is so hyper specific may be foreign to some and so cause chaos at the game table (I have seen/had to deal with it). Ounce of prevention and all that.
    Totally get it, which is why I agreed with implementing the change.

    I assumed that was specifically for the entangled condition, not necessarily for any created plantlife. Any chance we could get the text slightly amended to, "Tall grass, weeds, and other plants spring up in a 20 ft. by 20 ft. square within 40 ft. to wrap around creatures in the area of effect or those that enter the area for 1d4 rounds before dissipating."?
    Done.

    I might have an older version or something. I can't check the current releases because the download link has expired (I only grabbed the Eclipse and the Lucent, thinking that nothing had changed in the other docs).

    Just to be sure, it was here in my copy...
    Yeah, looks like that's older, at least older than my source docs. Given the amount of time that distribution can take through the Kickstarter model, I'm assuming that Christen probably isn't rolling out immediate updates but waiting until there's enough changes to warrant it.


    That is generally the assumption, but when a duration becomes indefinite (something that doesn't have a proper game term) then things get fuzzy with specific trumping general and all that. Also, the wording in the Hands bind of, "you may maintain one additional instance of the veil’s primary effect indefinitely", seems to imply that it allows an additional instance that is also indefinite, something that seems unintended considering all of the vegetation is supposed to disappear in 1d4+Essence rounds.

    How about adjusting the wording to something like, "While this veil is bound to your Hands chakra, you may maintain one additional separate instance of the veil’s primary effect indefinitely (so long as the veil remains bound), creating trees or...". Those two additions (or something like them) would remove all doubt of what indefinite means in this context and that it applies solely to this one instance of the power.

    I am aware that it may seem like I'm beating a dead horse here but I have had to have lengthy discussions with players at the game table about ambiguous wording despite apparently clear RAI. It causes me the pain. I try to prevent the pain.
    The main thing is that the whole ability is predicated upon that opening line of "While this veil is bound to your Hands chakra", but I understand your concern. I'll look into this and run it up the ladder.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tariyan Draegr View Post
    Should gauntlet of the void have the wording where you can use your veilweaver level in place of your BAB to hit as other veiks do?
    I came very, very close to just adding "and use veilweaver level in place of BAB" to the general rules for weapon-like veils (which would have bought me some extra word count to play with), but it was pointed out to me that there are a small number of weapon-like veils (existing and pending release) for which this would be abusable or not appropriate, so I ended up keeping the veilweaver in place of BAB text specific to each veil. In the case of the Gauntlet(s) of the Void, there was enough early confusion over how that affected weapons wielded with the bind ability of the gauntlet that we took it under review. Considering that the veil isn't even really a primary weapon while used in the Hands slot and is more of a special ability enabler that can be used as a weapon, the decision was made to put it on the (currently quite small but still present) list of weapon-like veils that don't offer that function. I'm not sure at the moment whether this is totally reflected in the playtest docs since we updated a couple veils to conform after the playtest started, but one of the loose guidelines for whether or not a veil has the "veilweaver level in place of BAB" tag is whether or not the veil appears on the vizier veil list, since that provides a solid answer to the question "Do we expect a 1/2 BAB character to be able to fight with this and hit something?"

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    Default Re: The Nexus & City of Seven Seraphs - A planar metropolis with a new veilweaving cl

    In the perspective of every non-blood, non-ring veil being a feat, should the Darkwalker Hood's constant See Invisibility be put behind 1-2 essence, as the True Seeing ability is? 2 essence would have it normally come online for a Vizier at the same level a Wizard would have access.

    Does the lowered light level from Sable Shots stack with itself on multiple attacks?

    Is the move action check to get up from Pooling Black's aura part of the same action to stand, or does it effectively require two move actions and a successful Strength/Escape Artist to stand up from prone in its area?

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    Default Re: The Nexus & City of Seven Seraphs - A planar metropolis with a new veilweaving cl

    Quote Originally Posted by neversterling View Post
    In the perspective of every non-blood, non-ring veil being a feat, should the Darkwalker Hood's constant See Invisibility be put behind 1-2 essence, as the True Seeing ability is? 2 essence would have it normally come online for a Vizier at the same level a Wizard would have access.
    It is limited to areas of dim or darker lighting, but that's probably a solid idea. I'll update accordingly.

    Does the lowered light level from Sable Shots stack with itself on multiple attacks?
    Yes.

    Is the move action check to get up from Pooling Black's aura part of the same action to stand, or does it effectively require two move actions and a successful Strength/Escape Artist to stand up from prone in its area?
    It's supposed to be one action that includes both the check and the act of standing up, but in researching your question I did see where the confusion was coming from. I'll tweak the verbage to clear that up.

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    Default Re: The Nexus & City of Seven Seraphs - A planar metropolis with a new veilweaving cl

    Two things about the Radiant playtest, one is that for some reason in Aphos's Blooded Gauntlets, there is this line:
    Alternatively,​ ​you​ ​can​ ​touch​ ​a​ ​creature​ ​whose​ ​Hit​ ​Dice are​ ​less​ ​than​ ​or​ ​greater​ ​than​ ​your​ ​own​ ​to​ ​deal​ ​1​ ​point​ ​of​ ​Constitution​ ​damage​ ​to them​ ​and​ ​restore​ ​5​ ​hit points​ ​to​ ​yourself,​
    And I don't think that it's intended to specifically exclude creatures with exactly your hit dice. Maybe it is though.

    Secondly, could I request that the Radiant gets access to Heaven's Blessing? It's thematically appropriate in both a mechanical and flavorful sense. A class based on using light to heal and buff should probably get access to a Veil that's a buff caused by "Runes of white light".
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    Quote Originally Posted by kardar233 View Post
    I was going to PM you about it because I wanted to know, but then you posted it later. Elegant solution. Watch out for Necropolitans.
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    Default Re: The Nexus & City of Seven Seraphs - A planar metropolis with a new veilweaving cl

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithril Leaf View Post
    Two things about the Radiant playtest, one is that for some reason in Aphos's Blooded Gauntlets, there is this line:

    And I don't think that it's intended to specifically exclude creatures with exactly your hit dice. Maybe it is though.
    Yeah, I caught this one a while back. It now reads- "[...] Alternatively, you can make a melee touch attack against a creature, forcing them to succeed on a Fortitude saving throw or suffer 1 point of Constitution damage; if the Hit Dice of a target who fails their saving throw are equal to or greater than your own, this attack heals you for 5 hit points ."

    Thanks for looking out! Let me know if there's any lingering confusion in that new text.

    Secondly, could I request that the Radiant gets access to Heaven's Blessing? It's thematically appropriate in both a mechanical and flavorful sense. A class based on using light to heal and buff should probably get access to a Veil that's a buff caused by "Runes of white light".
    Agreed, definite oversight there. I've added Heaven's Blessing to the Radiant veil list and made the appropriate updates in the source docs.


    Also, just as a heads up, since feedback has slowed down quite a bit and all the classes got a pretty thorough playtesting gauntlet through convention season as part of the Co7S Kickstarter tour, I believe we're sending these classes over for editing in preparation for layout very soon. We've got some other materials that are going to be following hot on their tails so we want the new akashic materials finalized and made available for purchase in the relatively near future. If you have any pending feedback or unanswered questions, let me know and I'll try and jump right on it.

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    Default Re: The Nexus & City of Seven Seraphs - A planar metropolis with a new veilweaving cl

    Quote Originally Posted by Ssalarn View Post
    Yeah, I caught this one a while back. It now reads- "[...] Alternatively, you can make a melee touch attack against a creature, forcing them to succeed on a Fortitude saving throw or suffer 1 point of Constitution damage; if the Hit Dice of a target who fails their saving throw are equal to or greater than your own, this attack heals you for 5 hit points ."
    This sort of thing has always grated on me a bit. I know that it is an adjustment to counter the bag-of-rats problem but I think that such things swing the pendulum too far and create more problems by cutting out a ridiculously large swath of targets. Any chance of getting this sort of thing changed to, "if the Hit Dice of a target who fails their saving throw are equal to or greater than half your own", instead? Allows the ability to be used on most mooks, or to have the town mayor make a sacrifice to heal a battered hero before a final battle. It would provide interesting options while still eliminating most abuse.

    Thoughts?
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    Default Re: The Nexus & City of Seven Seraphs - A planar metropolis with a new veilweaving cl

    Quote Originally Posted by Quarian Rex View Post
    This sort of thing has always grated on me a bit. I know that it is an adjustment to counter the bag-of-rats problem but I think that such things swing the pendulum too far and create more problems by cutting out a ridiculously large swath of targets. Any chance of getting this sort of thing changed to, "if the Hit Dice of a target who fails their saving throw are equal to or greater than half your own", instead? Allows the ability to be used on most mooks, or to have the town mayor make a sacrifice to heal a battered hero before a final battle. It would provide interesting options while still eliminating most abuse.

    Thoughts?

    I think that we can work with that suggestion, yeah. Hit Die equal to or greater than half tracks with other mechanics like gunslinger grit and should still be a reasonable limitation.

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    Default Re: The Nexus & City of Seven Seraphs - A planar metropolis with a new veilweaving cl

    Quote Originally Posted by Ssalarn View Post
    I think that we can work with that suggestion, yeah. Hit Die equal to or greater than half tracks with other mechanics like gunslinger grit and should still be a reasonable limitation.
    Muchly appreciated.
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