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    Default LGBTAI+ Question and Discussion Thread IV: [Citation Needed]

    Hello!
    Welcome to the LGBT+ information thread. This thread is meant to answer all sorts of questions one may have about the community, and have a casual atmosphere.
    As such, this is an education thread, not a support thread (which you can conveniently find there instead). Why the split? Because the main thread is mostly populated by LGBT people who are seeking, well, support, and some questions or misunderstandings can be causes of additional stress. You can ask these questions here instead, and receive answers from LGBT people or allies. They can be as general or as precise as you want.

    A couple things you need to know before browsing the rest of this thread:
    - If you are LGBT+ but do not wish to educate people, or are likely to be offended by the lack of knowledge of some people, you're probably better off not reading this thread.
    - If you have questions, go ahead! But try to stay polite and open-minded. If your question has an element of support (like “I think I might be transgender, how do I know for sure?” or “my LGBT friend has problems with their parents, how could I help?”), the support thread may also help, so try there as well.
    - Avoid misinformation. If you don't know the answer, don't intentionally pull stuff out of your backside. If you do so repeatedly, I will hunt you down, and GM your next game, which will include Drizz't and a Kender as GMPCs. (Theoretically unenforceable? You can never be 100% sure. Don't tempt your luck.)
    - Mind the forum rules and avoid the subjects of politics or religion (or sexually-explicit content for that matter). Otherwise, there is no subject that is preemptively banned, and we'd like it to stay this way; therefore, if a discussion upsets or angers you, report the offending posts (if a forum rule has actually been infringed) and/or step away from the computer until you calm down, instead of starting a flame war. This is the Internet. We're physically stuck behind your screen. The worst we can do is send stupid PMs until the inbox is full – and you don't even have to acknowledge their content before deleting them! We can't follow you and force you to keep arguing.
    - No one here should be shunned here for unfortunately lacking some knowledge but desiring to learn. Nothing is self-evident, and that's even more true where gender and sexuality are concerned. (Now, if you request to be educated but act deliberately obtuse when replied to, you're gonna have a bad time. Don't be deliberately obtuse. Nobody likes morons.)
    - If you came here just to tell LGBTAI+ people that they're doing everything wrong, or to otherwise act like a bigot, please go away.

    Spoiler: Glossary (thanks Zorg!), read first before asking a vocabulary question
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    And, for reference, here is a list of commonly used words and definitions by our community. Please understand that this list is currently undergoing construction right now. Any contributions to the list are appreciated.
    LGBT: Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Trans*

    LGBTAI: LGBT+Asexual/Allies+Intersex+All Inclusive

    QUILTBAG:
    Q - Queer and Questioning
    U - Unidentified
    I - Intersex
    L - Lesbian
    T - Transgender, Transexual
    B - Bisexual
    A - Asexual, Agender, Aromantic
    G - Gay, Genderqueer

    Where a word below is in italics, that means it has it's own entry on the list.

    A note on labels: many of these labels are seemingly interchangeable, and for some people they are. However, please do not presume to correct or judge another person's use of a label. Bisexual and Pansexual are especially tricky in this regard, as are transgender and transsexual to a lesser degree.
    Often the difference in why one person feels one label is appropriate and not another is deeply personal. If you wish to know more it is probably a topic to seek private advice on, from one of the people listed in the next section.


    AFAB/AMAB: Assigned Female/Male at Birth

    Agender(ed): Someone who lacks a gender.

    Androgyne: Gender Identity with male and female aspects.

    Androsexual: A person who is attracted to men.

    Aromantic: A person who does not feel any romantic feeling toward anyone, independently of sexual attraction.

    Asexual: A person who does not feel any/some sexual attraction, independently of any romantic feeling.

    Binary, The: See: Gender Binary.

    Bisexual: 1. attracted to two genders; 2. attracted to one's own gender and another gender; 3. attracted to various genders; 4. attracted to people regardless of gender; 5. ask the person who says they're bi what exactly they mean by that. See also Pansexual

    Cis: See: Cisgender

    Cisgender (CG): Somebody whose gender and sex align.

    Demisexual: A person who is sexually attracted to someone(s) only after they have formed an intense emotional relationship with.

    Dysphoria: The disassociation Trans* people feel with their own body.

    Male-to-Female (MtF): Someone who was assigned male at birth, but is female. (AKA: trans woman)

    Female: See: Woman

    Female-to-Male (FtM): Someone who was assigned female at birth, but is male. (AKA: trans man)

    FAAB: Female Assigned at Birth.

    Feminine: Something generally associated by society with women.

    FFS: Facial Feminization Surgery: Surgery to reduce chin/nose/cheekbones. Associated primarily with MAAB Trans people

    FtM: See: Female to Male

    Gay: A man who is attracted to men.

    Gender Binary: The commonly held notion that there are only men and women on two extremes, with nothing in between.

    Gender Expression (GE): How one expresses their Gender Identity to society.

    Gender Identity (GI): How one feels inside society's idea of "man, woman, or other".

    Genderfluid: Someone who fluctuates between different genders.

    Genderqueer (GQ): Someone who is not of a binary gender; someone who is not male or female.

    Gynosexual: A person who is attracted to women.

    Heterosexual: A person who is attracted to members of the opposite gender.

    Homosexual: A person who is attracted to members of their gender.

    HRT: Hormone replacement therapy. MtF's tend to progestrogens, oestrogens and androgen blockers, while FtM's take testosterone almost exculsively.

    Lesbian: A woman who is attracted to women.

    MAAB: Male Assigned at Birth.

    Male-to-Female (MtF): Someone who was assigned male at birth, but is female. (AKA: trans woman)

    Man/men: A cis man or trans man. Male.

    Masculine: Something generally associated by society with men.

    Pansexual: A person who is attracted to people regardless of gender. See also Bisexual

    Polyamorous: A person who is interested in a relationship with more than one person.

    Presenting: Trans* shorthand for appearing as their preferred gender, regardless of any HRT, SRS or other changes.

    Trans*: Transsexual and Transgender primarily, with the asterisk denoting that the trans- prefix could be followed by any number of appropriate words. It also includes other labels, and is a catch-all term for people who identify as something other than their biological sex at birth.

    Transgender: Used in reference to a person whose sex(body) and gender(mind) are at odds or do not match. A transgender person can also identify as genderqueer, transsexual, or may use transgender as their only identity.

    Transitioning: The process a Trans* person undergoes to move to their preferred gender. Often includes HRT, SRS, FFS.

    Transsexual: In common terms the same as transgender above. In medical terms refers specifically to people who wish to transition from male to female or female to male, not accommodating any other options.

    SRS: Sex Reassignment Surgery: Surgery to replace/transform a vagina into a penis, or vice versa. Mastectomies or plastic surgery may be used on breasts.

    Sexual Orientation (SO): How one identifies who they are attracted to.

    Significant Other(s) (SO): Person(s) you are in a relationship with.

    Third-gendered: Someone who fits in a local society's third gender, usually male performing female tasks, occasionally vice versa. Also a person who feels they do not identify with any other gender identity.

    Woman: A cis woman or trans woman. Female.

    Allies: Hetereosexual-Cisgender people who support equality for sexual, gender, and romantic minorities.


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    -Philemonite, for gay-related subjects.
    -Mono Vertigo, for asexuality-related subjects.
    - Rain Dragon, for trans-related subjects (particularly trans men/FtM).
    -Miriel, for feminism, gender, asexuality, and trans-related subjects (particularly trans women/MtF).
    -Golentan for bisexuality, genderfluidity/questioning-related subjects, and issues of childhood abuse.
    -Irish Musician for cis/straight point of view on general LGBT+ subjects.
    -Jormengand for bisexuality, trans, polyamory, and genderfluidity-related subjects.
    -Arachu for trans (particularly trans women/MtF), hormones, bisexuality, pansexuality, and polyamory-related subjects.
    -Astrella for trans (particularly trans women/FtM), LGBT+ rights, and lesbian-related topics
    -Eldest for bisexuality, pansexuality, polyamoury, and kink-related subjects (still keep it PG-13 please).
    -Kesnit for trans-related subjects (particularly trans men/FtM).





    Last thing: knowledge is power. You might be one of the lucky 10,000 today.



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    Last edited by Jormengand; 2017-09-07 at 02:50 PM.
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    Default Re: LGBTAI+ Question and Discussion Thread IV: [Citation Needed]

    Just a minor curiosity question-when was the first historically recorded trans person? I'd be curious to know both when the 100% confirmed, no ifs ands or buts person was, and when the first "We think so, but due to faulty record keeping, we can't be sure" trans person was.
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    Default Re: LGBTAI+ Question and Discussion Thread IV: [Citation Needed]

    Depending on how you define transgender then the Gala priests of ancient Sumer might qualify. They could be either sex but were socially treated as neither strictly male nor strictly female. Some had female wives but went by women's names. Some dressed in women's clothing, some wore women's clothes on one side of their body and men's clothes on the other side. I don't think we know any by name or if they would consider themselves exactly transgender but there have been humans who don't fit either gender category exactly since before writing.



    Edit: If you're looking for individuals then Albert Cashier was one of the first we're relatively sure about. Born Jennie Hodgers, Albert first put on men's clothes and enlisted as a man in the army during the Civil War in the US, something that a fair number of women did. However unlike those woman after the war ended Albert did not return to a female social role. Instead he lived the rest of his life as a man and was buried as one.
    Last edited by Recherché; 2017-09-05 at 02:54 PM.

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    Default Re: LGBTAI+ Question and Discussion Thread IV: [Citation Needed]

    Quote Originally Posted by Recherché View Post
    Depending on how you define transgender then the Gala priests of ancient Sumer might qualify. They could be either sex but were socially treated as neither strictly male nor strictly female. Some had female wives but went by women's names. Some dressed in women's clothing, some wore women's clothes on one side of their body and men's clothes on the other side. I don't think we know any by name or if they would consider themselves exactly transgender but there have been humans who don't fit either gender category exactly since before writing.

    Wow. That's neat.

    Thanks for letting me know!
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    Default Re: LGBTAI+ Question and Discussion Thread IV: [Citation Needed]

    Just a quick question; if this is a poor thread to ask it in, I'll remove the post. I know that groups like HRC will put out occasional grades for states in the U.S. based on how pro or anti -LGBT they are. Does anyone know if any such ratings exist specifically for how transgender friendly a state is?
    Last edited by Jaxzan Proditor; 2017-09-05 at 04:23 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by oppyu View Post
    There is nothing more emblematic of this forum than three or four pages of debate between people who, as it turns out, pretty much agree with each other.

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    Default Re: LGBTAI+ Question and Discussion Thread IV: [Citation Needed]

    Since it kind of got buried in the last thread, I'm going to drag the discussion of the word "queer" back over here.

    Spoiler: Previous comments
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    Quote Originally Posted by golentan
    I'm in favor of it, as long as it's not being used as a slur. It's short, punchy, a good umbrella word that avoids tortuous acronyms without excluding... I understand why some people might take issue given its history as a slur, but I like it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Recherché
    Queer's my preferred description of my orientation because anything else would be an essay. While I understand it's history and that it can be used as a slur its really helpful to have a term for "not easily categorized." I do occasionally get irritated at people thinking that it means I'm 100% lesbian though.
    Quote Originally Posted by lio45
    Just my personal opinion - I've never liked it, way too vague (don't other, better terms overlap it for all possible meanings, anyway?)

    I've never, ever used it. I have never encountered a strict need for it.

    Edit: Interestingly enough, Recherché right above my post - which I didn't see before posting - makes a good argument for it.
    Quote Originally Posted by 2D8HP
    Because I'm old I still have some negative associations with the word:
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    I remember "playing" (mostly just running, and trying to look is if I was participating, while also trying to not have to tackle or be tackled) it in the mid to late 1970's. I don't remember the detail of it being the guy who brought down the last "queer" becoming the next "queer", as it almost always ended in a "dogpile" with one boy being so massively tackled that the identity of who brought down the "queer" was unclear. Incredibly another boy would then volunteer by grabbing the now loose ball and running with it for the glory of evading being tackled the longest.
    I remember that there was usually very little adult supervision when it was played (boys only, where were the girls? ), but sometimes an adult would object to the name of the game (they would never explain why), but not to the likelihood that someone would get really hurt!
    ...The worst incident was my getting punched unconscious by stangers after being picked out, and asked "What's happening" (I was waiting outside of Slims on 11th Street in San Francisco trying to see the Flaming Lips perform), definitely left me with a useful prejudice, as when another bearded, stocky, backwards cap, and plaid shirt wearing young man approached me (on Blake Street just off Telegraph Avenue) and demanded, "Give me your money!", I already had pepper spray in my hand. A decade latter, age and working construction in San Jose (and horrible "Silicon Valley") made me stocky as well (though I never grew a damn beard!), and one day a grossly overweight bearded plumber that I was the apprentice of told me a story of how in his youth he and friends went to San Francisco to go "queer bashing" only to be fought off and chased by the "queer" driving a VW bug (my father drove one, so that detail stuck) down the highway that they were trying to escape on, "he was really strong".

    That's when it clicked for me. As a teenager I knew some classmates, and friends who were "out" but I thought of any trouble that they may have because of that as something that would have happened in "the bad old days", but I realized that since I:


    1) Was wearing a Greek fisherman's hat (I remember getting it knocked off my head) instead of a backwards baseball cap,

    2) I was skinny,

    and

    3) In San Francisco to see a Rock band.

    I was selected as a "queer" (someone not wearing a backwards baseball cap) to be "bashed" (sucker-punched to unconsciousness).

    That made me realize that LGBT etc, etc folks have real contemporary (OK I would have been at least 21 years old, but it was before I got married because I was alone so 1989 to 1992) violent repression against them...
    Quote Originally Posted by golentan
    And yeah... I think people know the fraught history of the word, and I do really get why people might object. I know I have some really terrifying and bad experiences with it as a slur. But I also like it because it has positive history for it. Both my sexual and gender identities are enough off kilter that I often go with "queer" for myself (though Bisexual suffices for people who don't need to know more). Positive memories, I remember a march when I was a kid with the "We're Here, We're Queer," call. It's not all negative, and it's inclusive enough and enough a badge of pride reclaimed in my mind, that... eh.
    Quote Originally Posted by Heliomance
    I also like queer. Best umbrella word for "not cishet but maybe don't fit into one of the better known neat categories" I've come across. I object to people claiming straight people aren't allowed to use it.
    Ilorin Lorati I both like "queer" and hate it at the same time. On one hand, its a really good catch-all for people that aren't easily defined, like myself and many of my loved ones; on the other hand I am unfortunately someone that gets caught up in meanings and definitions by simple fact of my brain working that way, so my internal monologue usually ends up in a fist fight with what I want to say or share.
    Quote Originally Posted by Coidzor
    It's always felt vague to the point of near-meaninglessness whenever I've seen people use it, but it makes people happy and doesn't seem to cause any trouble beyond people not actually understanding what they mean without clarification, but it also prompts clarification.

    Well, I suppose there's the people who throw hissy fits when they're asked to clarify and that can be a bit annoying.

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    Default Re: LGBTAI+ Question and Discussion Thread IV: [Citation Needed]

    I like queer precisely because of its unifying aspects within the LGBT+ community; not to mention it giving an answer to people who can't or don't want to identify more specifically. It's a we're all outcast from cis-heteronormative society, we're in this together.
    Last edited by Astrella; 2017-09-06 at 04:04 AM.
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    Default Re: LGBTAI+ Question and Discussion Thread IV: [Citation Needed]

    I think it's a useful umbrella term. I usually understand it as a way to say "it's complicated".
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    Default Re: LGBTAI+ Question and Discussion Thread IV: [Citation Needed]

    I think this is the V thread not the IV. ;)

    Also you didn't put the colerful LGBT thingy in the title.
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    Default Re: LGBTAI+ Question and Discussion Thread IV: [Citation Needed]

    Quote Originally Posted by S@tanicoaldo View Post
    I think this is the V thread not the IV. ;)

    Also you didn't put the colerful LGBT thingy in the title.
    The last was the III so I'm guessing this one is the IV.

    The colourful LGBT thing was not in the last title either.
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    Default Re: LGBTAI+ Question and Discussion Thread IV: [Citation Needed]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jormengand View Post
    The colourful LGBT thing was not in the last title either.
    III had it on it. At least it did on my sub list. The one like the support thread.
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    Default Re: LGBTAI+ Question and Discussion Thread IV: [Citation Needed]

    Quote Originally Posted by Irish Musician View Post
    III had it on it. At least it did on my sub list. The one like the support thread.
    Oh, the tag! I thought she meant in the body of the text. Added that in now...
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    Default Re: LGBTAI+ Question and Discussion Thread IV: [Citation Needed]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jormengand View Post
    Oh, the tag! I thought she meant in the body of the text. Added that in now...


    Always love the tag
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    Default Re: LGBTAI+ Question and Discussion Thread IV: [Citation Needed]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jormengand View Post
    The last was the III so I'm guessing this one is the IV.

    The colourful LGBT thing was not in the last title either.
    There was a short-lived Thread IV since Thread III was suspected to be over the necromancy limit. It got lost when people kept posting in the old thread.

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    Default Re: LGBTAI+ Question and Discussion Thread IV: [Citation Needed]

    Hello,

    Is there a place where I could find statistics on how safe it is to be trans in Prince George?

    (Not meaning to start a political discussion here. Just looking for a source of information.)

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    Default Re: LGBTAI+ Question and Discussion Thread IV: [Citation Needed]

    I'm worried more about suddenly becoming something I'm not ready for.

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    Default Re: LGBTAI+ Question and Discussion Thread IV: [Citation Needed]

    Just a quick question, and pretty small compared to...well, the one that started the spiral in the last thread. If someone chooses to come out to me, is it necessarily a problem if my only reaction is to say "Oh, alright." and resume treating them the same way I'd been already?

    On one hand, it feels a bit dismissive. I've been hyped up to say something to someone before, and had no idea how to proceed when they had a less-than-dramatic reaction. It sort of deflates the situation, I guess? I wouldn't want them to think I didn't care enough for this potentially-agonised decision to make a difference.

    On the other hand, I get the feeling that if somebody's made the decision to come out to me, specifically, they probably know me well enough to know that my reaction would probably be relatively blasé. Not dismissive, but with a tone that says "And this changes what, exactly?". It seems like that sort of reaction, followed by continuing to behave around them in the same way that led then to trust me with this sort of personal information, would be ideal.

    This is purely hypothetical, for the record. Nobody I know is about to come out as ______ to me, as far as I'm aware. I'd just like to get some idea of whether my most natural reaction is something many people would be upsetting or not.
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    Default Re: LGBTAI+ Question and Discussion Thread IV: [Citation Needed]

    Hello, I have two questions.

    Today a co-worker came out to me, she said she felt safe around me and knew I would judge her. The problem is that she is wrong, I'm a huge judgmental jerk with poor social skills, I don't know how to handle this, any tips on how to be a good "straight friend"?

    Second, she said she can't come out to her family because they won't accept her and she told me some cases they even cut ties with the gay person, sometimes if they are under age they are kicked out and forced to live in the streets, my question is... Isn't that a crime? Why don't the kids who are forced out of their homes because their sexual choice seek justice?
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    Default Re: LGBTAI+ Question and Discussion Thread IV: [Citation Needed]

    *Eyes The Eye suspiciously* This seems like a really good companion question to mine, since you're describing a similar situation to my hypothetical. Let's you and I and see what the good folks here have to say.
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    Default Re: LGBTAI+ Question and Discussion Thread IV: [Citation Needed]

    Quote Originally Posted by The Eye View Post
    Today a co-worker came out to me, she said she felt safe around me and knew I would judge her. The problem is that she is wrong, I'm a huge judgmental jerk with poor social skills, I don't know how to handle this, any tips on how to be a good "straight friend"?

    Second, she said she can't come out to her family because they won't accept her and she told me some cases they even cut ties with the gay person, sometimes if they are under age they are kicked out and forced to live in the streets, my question is... Isn't that a crime? Why don't the kids who are forced out of their homes because their sexual choice seek justice?
    Can't help you much with the first but on the second, yes that happens fairly often and while kicking kids out directly is a crime, making things so unpleasant at home that running away is a blessing is not. So kids still end up on the streets anyways with an unfortunate frequency. Sometimes law enforcement will try and return them to their parents but this may not be a good thing given how much abuse their parents are heaping on them. There's also the reality that it's very very difficult for a homeless child to successfully sue their wealthier adult parent in the US, so even in the case of being kicked out or abuse its not easy to fix.

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    Default Re: LGBTAI+ Question and Discussion Thread IV: [Citation Needed]

    Quote Originally Posted by Delicious Taffy View Post
    Just a quick question, and pretty small compared to...well, the one that started the spiral in the last thread. If someone chooses to come out to me, is it necessarily a problem if my only reaction is to say "Oh, alright." and resume treating them the same way I'd been already?

    On one hand, it feels a bit dismissive. I've been hyped up to say something to someone before, and had no idea how to proceed when they had a less-than-dramatic reaction. It sort of deflates the situation, I guess? I wouldn't want them to think I didn't care enough for this potentially-agonised decision to make a difference.

    On the other hand, I get the feeling that if somebody's made the decision to come out to me, specifically, they probably know me well enough to know that my reaction would probably be relatively blasé. Not dismissive, but with a tone that says "And this changes what, exactly?". It seems like that sort of reaction, followed by continuing to behave around them in the same way that led then to trust me with this sort of personal information, would be ideal.

    This is purely hypothetical, for the record. Nobody I know is about to come out as ______ to me, as far as I'm aware. I'd just like to get some idea of whether my most natural reaction is something many people would be upsetting or not.
    It could be a little off-putting to receive that response. Admittedly, it's way preferable to the less accepting alternatives.

    One of the key points I've identified that makes the response seem so dissonant is that coming out to someone involves a great deal of anxiety. It's something that takes a lot of courage to do - getting a lackluster response feels even worse there than in similar situations, because you're is showing vulnerability and trust by coming out.

    So, my advice has always been to thank the person for trusting you. It acknowledges that it isn't an easy thing to do, and is a more positive response than a mere okay. I'd also follow it up with affirmation of their identity - make it crystal clear that you support them, rather than just tolerate or worse.
    Last edited by AmberVael; 2017-09-12 at 01:01 PM.

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    Default Re: LGBTAI+ Question and Discussion Thread IV: [Citation Needed]

    Hi all, I'm new-ish here, been reading the forums lately and been super excited by all the positivity and support. I'm a straight ally, but I figured I could maybe help out on the "being a good straight friend" questions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Delicious Taffy View Post
    Just a quick question, and pretty small compared to...well, the one that started the spiral in the last thread. If someone chooses to come out to me, is it necessarily a problem if my only reaction is to say "Oh, alright." and resume treating them the same way I'd been already?

    On one hand, it feels a bit dismissive. I've been hyped up to say something to someone before, and had no idea how to proceed when they had a less-than-dramatic reaction. It sort of deflates the situation, I guess? I wouldn't want them to think I didn't care enough for this potentially-agonised decision to make a difference.

    On the other hand, I get the feeling that if somebody's made the decision to come out to me, specifically, they probably know me well enough to know that my reaction would probably be relatively blasé. Not dismissive, but with a tone that says "And this changes what, exactly?". It seems like that sort of reaction, followed by continuing to behave around them in the same way that led then to trust me with this sort of personal information, would be ideal.

    This is purely hypothetical, for the record. Nobody I know is about to come out as ______ to me, as far as I'm aware. I'd just like to get some idea of whether my most natural reaction is something many people would be upsetting or not.
    I'm going to say, it really depends on the person. I'm straight, but my wife is bi, and this is probably really close to her preferred response from anyone she comes out to. Accept it, acknowledge it, and move on. It probably stems from being an introvert who actively avoids confrontation and discussion.

    That said, where I think you're falling short is the "acknowledge it" part. As AmberVael says, coming out is wrought with anxiety. Acknowledging the fact, and being sure you understand what that means, before moving on will give the response more weight.

    As such, I'd recommend something like the following.

    Them: "I'm ____."
    You: "Oh, alright. Is there more I need to know? Does this change how you would like me to treat you or refer to you?"

    Basically, reaffirm your support, and show that you're willing to follow their lead on this.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Eye View Post
    Hello, I have two questions.

    Today a co-worker came out to me, she said she felt safe around me and knew I would judge her. The problem is that she is wrong, I'm a huge judgmental jerk with poor social skills, I don't know how to handle this, any tips on how to be a good "straight friend"?

    Second, she said she can't come out to her family because they won't accept her and she told me some cases they even cut ties with the gay person, sometimes if they are under age they are kicked out and forced to live in the streets, my question is... Isn't that a crime? Why don't the kids who are forced out of their homes because their sexual choice seek justice?
    Well, even if you think you're a judgemental jerk, she apparently doesn't. And you seem to be ok with this admission, so you might be selling yourself short on this. But can you expand on what you mean?

    Being a good "straight friend" is a lot like being a good friend in general. Support the person, follow their lead on how they want to be referred to, etc. Occasionally, being the good straight friend involves standing up for the person if someone is being homophobic or bigoted towards them, but again this is all just part of being a good friend and ally, similar to how you might stand beside a foreign friend when someone is being racist.

    It sounds to me (but please discuss this with her) like what she wants is for you to be an understanding shoulder, a safe person that she can be herself around, as she can't do that at home. Admittedly, this can be a big responsibility if you're her only outlet and life at home is really bad. It can be a lot like supporting someone through domestic abuse, or any other private trial. Hopefully it isn't as bad as all that, but you should still be prepared to shoulder a little weight, if only as a supportive friend.

    As for legality, you're 100% right that (in most countries) it's illegal. But if you're a young person on the street, with little money and no home, having been rejected by your family, your first thoughts aren't going to be about hiring a lawyer.

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    Default Re: LGBTAI+ Question and Discussion Thread IV: [Citation Needed]

    Quote Originally Posted by Delicious Taffy View Post
    *Eyes The Eye suspiciously* This seems like a really good companion question to mine, since you're describing a similar situation to my hypothetical. Let's you and I and see what the good folks here have to say.
    Oh, I'm sorry I don't really read this thread, only read the last one because it got locked and posted here because of the event.

    But what a huge coincidence, isn't it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Recherché View Post
    Can't help you much with the first but on the second, yes that happens fairly often and while kicking kids out directly is a crime, making things so unpleasant at home that running away is a blessing is not. So kids still end up on the streets anyways with an unfortunate frequency. Sometimes law enforcement will try and return them to their parents but this may not be a good thing given how much abuse their parents are heaping on them. There's also the reality that it's very very difficult for a homeless child to successfully sue their wealthier adult parent in the US, so even in the case of being kicked out or abuse its not easy to fix.
    She keep talking about wanting to help a NGO who helps kids in this condition but I think despite the good intensions putting all these kids in the same room sounds like a bad idea to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by ve4grm View Post
    As for legality, you're 100% right that (in most countries) it's illegal. But if you're a young person on the street, with little money and no home, having been rejected by your family, your first thoughts aren't going to be about hiring a lawyer.
    Well, to me they should! It's a parent job to provide to his child not matter what, they have literally one job and they not only failed to provide but also did the opposite of what apparent should! They literally abandoned their kids, that makes me sick.

    Quote Originally Posted by ve4grm View Post
    Well, even if you think you're a judgemental jerk, she apparently doesn't. And you seem to be ok with this admission, so you might be selling yourself short on this. But can you expand on what you mean?

    Being a good "straight friend" is a lot like being a good friend in general. Support the person, follow their lead on how they want to be referred to, etc. Occasionally, being the good straight friend involves standing up for the person if someone is being homophobic or bigoted towards them, but again this is all just part of being a good friend and ally, similar to how you might stand beside a foreign friend when someone is being racist.

    It sounds to me (but please discuss this with her) like what she wants is for you to be an understanding shoulder, a safe person that she can be herself around, as she can't do that at home. Admittedly, this can be a big responsibility if you're her only outlet and life at home is really bad. It can be a lot like supporting someone through domestic abuse, or any other private trial. Hopefully it isn't as bad as all that, but you should still be prepared to shoulder a little weight, if only as a supportive friend.

    As for legality, you're 100% right that (in most countries) it's illegal. But if you're a young person on the street, with little money and no home, having been rejected by your family, your first thoughts aren't going to be about hiring a lawyer.
    Well, it's just that I judge people all the time in my head, but since I never externalize it she doesn't know any better :|

    Well, I don't know if you read my other posts but I kind of... Never had friends before. I just started socializing more this year. So I don't know how to be a good friend in general, I'm kind of an unpleasant person.

    We kind of have this bound because of a thing that happened in her life that and she thinks I helped her even though I just wanted to help her indirectly.

    Her father had a stroke and that caused many problems, he lost the movement of his legs and right arm, he can't speak and was severely mentally damaged.

    She was really upset and cried a lot at work because of this, she claimed to be overloaded and depressed.

    One day I overheard she talking to one of her friends, she wassaying that she would rather see her father dead than on that state, a shadow of his former self, that really struck me.

    On her birthday all the professors were giving her gifts and all that jazz and I gave her the book "The Death of Ivan Ilyich" since it kind of talks about this situation, I thought it could bring her some peace.

    Some days after that she claimed she loved the book and it changed her views on her father and his disease, she started thanking me and talking to me, but the point of me giving her the book is so that I wouldn’t have to talk to her at all because "me bad with talk" but she thought what I did was a great gesture and changed her life.

    Soon sometime after that, she said she started trying to hear what is on her father’s mind and they started painting and drawing and that's how they are communicating, I was happy for her but I didn't really cared, I didn't knew her father and it wasn't my idea so I don’t know why she was thanking me.

    And then she came to see me as this wise and kind person when really I just wanted her to learn that sick people have rich inner worlds just as we healthy people do, sometimes even richer.

    Now she trusts me and sees me as someone that I’m not.
    Last edited by The Eye; 2017-09-12 at 07:43 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd-o-rama View Post
    Excellent Chaotic Evil "roleplaying" The Eye. "The only people responsible for the welfare of or harm dealt to others are people who aren't me."
    "A clear horizon — nothing to worry about on your plate, only things that are creative and not destructive… I can’t bear quarreling, I can’t bear feelings between people — I think hatred is wasted energy, and it’s all non-productive." - Alfred Hitchcock

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    Default Re: LGBTAI+ Question and Discussion Thread IV: [Citation Needed]

    Quote Originally Posted by The Eye View Post
    Well, to me they should! It's a parent job to provide to his child not matter what, they have literally one job and they not only failed to provide but also did the opposite of what apparent should! They literally abandoned their kids, that makes me sick.
    Oh sure it's not legal, it's just that it can be hard for children to enforce rights against parents. And there are a lot of things parents can legally do - I won't go into it too much here because politics, but look up "wilderness camps." There's also the fact that you can pretty much be kicked out on your 18th birthday with the clothes on your back.
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    Default Re: LGBTAI+ Question and Discussion Thread IV: [Citation Needed]

    Quote Originally Posted by WarKitty View Post
    Oh sure it's not legal, it's just that it can be hard for children to enforce rights against parents. And there are a lot of things parents can legally do - I won't go into it too much here because politics, but look up "wilderness camps." There's also the fact that you can pretty much be kicked out on your 18th birthday with the clothes on your back.
    I'll never understand this "18 years old are complete adults" culture, I bet the person who created this tradition never has spent time with a 18 years.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd-o-rama View Post
    Excellent Chaotic Evil "roleplaying" The Eye. "The only people responsible for the welfare of or harm dealt to others are people who aren't me."
    "A clear horizon — nothing to worry about on your plate, only things that are creative and not destructive… I can’t bear quarreling, I can’t bear feelings between people — I think hatred is wasted energy, and it’s all non-productive." - Alfred Hitchcock

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    Default Re: LGBTAI+ Question and Discussion Thread IV: [Citation Needed]

    My gay friend called me the F-slur and more today, during a League match. Is that, like, okay? Because it kinda made my brain break, being called these things by a gay guy. He was cackling up a storm while he did it, like he was having the time of his life.

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    Default Re: LGBTAI+ Question and Discussion Thread IV: [Citation Needed]

    Quote Originally Posted by Future Sword View Post
    My gay friend called me the F-slur and more today, during a League match. Is that, like, okay? Because it kinda made my brain break, being called these things by a gay guy. He was cackling up a storm while he did it, like he was having the time of his life.
    You don't have to be okay with that.

    He probably has a warped sense of irony, but you can say "that's not okay" if it makes you uncomfortable.

    Alternately, he may have been coming on to you and practicing his dirty talk, because I am a strange person who likes interpreting everything which can be construed as flirting as flirting.
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    Default Re: LGBTAI+ Question and Discussion Thread IV: [Citation Needed]

    Quote Originally Posted by Future Sword View Post
    My gay friend called me the F-slur and more today, during a League match. Is that, like, okay? Because it kinda made my brain break, being called these things by a gay guy. He was cackling up a storm while he did it, like he was having the time of his life.
    I don't consider it okay but really it depends on how the two of feel about it. I'd call your friend out on it and say that it does offend you, but I don't know the details of your relationship. Oh and calling someone out doesn't need to be uber formal a "Dude calling me an [expletive deleted]? Not cool" has worked pretty well for me.

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    Default Re: LGBTAI+ Question and Discussion Thread IV: [Citation Needed]

    Quote Originally Posted by The Eye View Post
    I'll never understand this "18 years old are complete adults" culture, I bet the person who created this tradition never has spent time with a 18 years.
    An arbitrary age line ends up being the best option to distinguish child from adult. Otherwise it'd be very complicated and almost certainly biased if it came down to someones judgment or a test or something.

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    Default Re: LGBTAI+ Question and Discussion Thread IV: [Citation Needed]

    Quote Originally Posted by Chen View Post
    An arbitrary age line ends up being the best option to distinguish child from adult. Otherwise it'd be very complicated and almost certainly biased if it came down to someones judgment or a test or something.
    I think what bugs people more is that, at 18, you go straight from a "you have to live with your parents and they have to take care of you, even if it's a bad environment" to "your parents have absolutely no obligations to you and they can throw you on the street with nothing but the clothes on your back."

    It's caused a lot of trouble for foster care kids in the past especially, although they're getting better about providing transitional programs.
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