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    Default Re: LGBTAI+ Question and Discussion Thread IV: [Citation Needed]

    Quote Originally Posted by Spanish_Paladin View Post
    Hi everyone!!

    I am writing a sci-fi novel (kind of) mostly for fun i know i am not a good writer. The thing is that i want to be very inclusive, i have a couple of male main characters that are developing their relationship in the book and a well established lesbian couple (secondary characters). The problem is that i am worried about my subconscious bias of a heterosexual male (catholic background), my idea is to write them as any other couple but there is circunstances that can affect them, they are living in a hipercapitalistic, homophobic and xenophobic dystopia where they are discriminate and even jailed for their political and sexual orientation (the lesbian couple are political activists and the gay are a pagan terrorist and a scholar reformist). Also i have less problems to write signs of affection between women than men, again my heterosexual bias. Any advice?

    I have also a trasgender secondary character, but she (she transitioned from male to female) is from a far more technologically and socially advance country (federation like), my doubt here is that they have the enough genetics and nanotechnology to transform a male body to female (and reverse,) like she was born like that, but i don't know if a trasgender reader will prefer a less perfect transition. She has an informal relationship with one of the male characters (who knows that she transitioned), and at the middle of the book he brokes the relationship becuse he falls in love with the female main character. Perhaps it would better to eliminate the relationship from the beginning because i don't want to give the impression that he drops because she is trasgender. Advice?

    If i express something that can seem offensive, please forgive me, it is ignorance or my terrible english. Thanks and love to all :)
    If you don't feel comfortable writing LGBT+ characters because you might offend people why are you writing LGBT+ characters?
    Quote Originally Posted by Future Sword View Post
    There's a user on this forum whose demeanor, speech patterns, and other forms of communication remind me of somebody I know offline. This acquaintance is trans, and the similarities are so strong, I have a [...well, "suspicion" seems too confrontational as a word choice, but something of that variety] that this user is also a trans individual.

    With their privacy as a concern, and to avoid possibly outing them, I won't name names or anything like that. What I'm wondering is, is there a non-invasive way to ask this user personally about something of this nature, or is it better to try and forget the whole thing as none of my business? I normally wouldn't even think about this for more than a moment, but in this case, the similarities are so uncanny, I couldn't help but wonder.

    If leaving well enough alone is the best option, I'll sod off right away.
    Are you wondering if its okay to ask if they are Trans (none of your business, up to them to disclose) or someone you know IRL?

    If its the latter I know some people value their anonymity online, so if you really want to know, ask them IRL if they use this forum.
    Quote Originally Posted by true_shinken View Post
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  2. - Top - End - #152
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    Default Re: LGBTAI+ Question and Discussion Thread IV: [Citation Needed]

    Quote Originally Posted by EternalMelon View Post
    If you don't feel comfortable writing LGBT+ characters because you might offend people why are you writing LGBT+ characters?

    .
    I am comfortable with that characters, i give them a lot of work and imagination. It's just i want feedback from lgbt+ readers to improve my writing, sorry if i express myself incorrectly.

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    Default Re: LGBTAI+ Question and Discussion Thread IV: [Citation Needed]

    I have been unable to sleep for more than 6 hours this entire year. That's not too bad, but I often can't even get the full 6 hours.
    The Sandman is being a bastard.

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    Default Re: LGBTAI+ Question and Discussion Thread IV: [Citation Needed]

    Quote Originally Posted by Spanish_Paladin View Post
    Hi everyone!!

    I am writing a sci-fi novel (kind of) mostly for fun i know i am not a good writer. The thing is that i want to be very inclusive...
    You don't need to arbitrarily add more characters just to get a properly diverse batch. In fact, on multiple levels, that's a horrible idea. You're better off focusing on a tight, cohesive narrative to start off rather than trying to deeply think out bunches of characters. And given that any halfway decent novel will require a lot of revisions, a lot of editing, and frankly a lot of cutting, all this extra stuff is completely unnecessary.

    If the setting takes off you're encouraged to develop characters from all across the diversity spectrum. (Although in many cases it's easier to just declare them for what they are rather than try too hard to find the "right" way to write a gay or trans or whatever character; federation level technology being able to make alterations nearly indistinguishable from being born that way might well be the easiest way to write that character.) But for right now, good writing pointers trump social justice pointers. Focus the main story now, you can broaden the setting with side stories later on down the line.

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    Default Re: LGBTAI+ Question and Discussion Thread IV: [Citation Needed]

    Something I was told at school back in the 1990s and wondered if it was true... is a guy having an earring in his right ear likely to be gay?
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    Default Re: LGBTAI+ Question and Discussion Thread IV: [Citation Needed]

    Was true a long time ago, when gay people had a much harder time being openly out and as such made use of little tells to communicate with other people in the know.

    Might be true to some extent today, for someone who for one reason or another wants to make homage to the symbol. But while someone with an earring in just their right ear is more likely than average to be gay (most people preferring either a matched pair or none), most gay people I've met don't give a toss about archaic codes. Or, for the most part, earrings.

  7. - Top - End - #157
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    Default Re: LGBTAI+ Question and Discussion Thread IV: [Citation Needed]

    Quote Originally Posted by Silent Hunter View Post
    Something I was told at school back in the 1990s and wondered if it was true... is a guy having an earring in his right ear likely to be gay?
    Quote Originally Posted by Anymage View Post
    Was true a long time ago, when gay people had a much harder time being openly out and as such made use of little tells to communicate with other people in the know.

    Might be true to some extent today, for someone who for one reason or another wants to make homage to the symbol. But while someone with an earring in just their right ear is more likely than average to be gay (most people preferring either a matched pair or none), most gay people I've met don't give a toss about archaic codes. Or, for the most part, earrings.
    I was also told this in the 90s, but I'm pretty sure that however much truth there may have been at one time, it was mostly being co-opted to make fun of boy band members and other students (who may have chosen styles based on those boy bands). Also, I seem to remember that which ear was the "gay" ear changed depending on the target they wanted to mock.

    Interesting that it actually had some truth to it, though.

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    Default Re: LGBTAI+ Question and Discussion Thread IV: [Citation Needed]

    Quote Originally Posted by Spanish_Paladin View Post
    I am comfortable with that characters, i give them a lot of work and imagination. It's just i want feedback from lgbt+ readers to improve my writing, sorry if i express myself incorrectly.
    Ah, no, I was just unnecessarily harsh on you. I'm sorry for my reaction, I'm sure if you do your best to have the characters be believable and fleshed out things will be fine.

    Having reservations about writing affection between two men is alien to me, but I guess just try and write it as you would between two heterosexual people?

    As for trans people its.... complicated. Transitioning (and the extent of the Transition) is a very personal and unique experience. There is no one-size-fits-all answer to the extent of transitioning. Some people might find it easier to identify with a character who experiences a more limited degree of transition because it mirrors the readers situation, while others would like the fantasy of the "full"* transition. I feel like as long as the text supports a degree of gender actualization and fluidity you can't fail too hard.

    Please take my advice with a grain of salt, as I'm not sure I'm qualified to speak on this subject.

    *Sorry, no offense meant here.
    Quote Originally Posted by true_shinken View Post
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  9. - Top - End - #159
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    Default Re: LGBTAI+ Question and Discussion Thread IV: [Citation Needed]

    Quote Originally Posted by Spanish_Paladin View Post
    Hi everyone!!

    I am writing a sci-fi novel (kind of) mostly for fun i know i am not a good writer. The thing is that i want to be very inclusive, i have a couple of male main characters that are developing their relationship in the book and a well established lesbian couple (secondary characters). The problem is that i am worried about my subconscious bias of a heterosexual male (catholic background), my idea is to write them as any other couple but there is circunstances that can affect them, they are living in a hipercapitalistic, homophobic and xenophobic dystopia where they are discriminate and even jailed for their political and sexual orientation (the lesbian couple are political activists and the gay are a pagan terrorist and a scholar reformist). Also i have less problems to write signs of affection between women than men, again my heterosexual bias. Any advice?

    I have also a trasgender secondary character, but she (she transitioned from male to female) is from a far more technologically and socially advance country (federation like), my doubt here is that they have the enough genetics and nanotechnology to transform a male body to female (and reverse,) like she was born like that, but i don't know if a trasgender reader will prefer a less perfect transition. She has an informal relationship with one of the male characters (who knows that she transitioned), and at the middle of the book he brokes the relationship becuse he falls in love with the female main character. Perhaps it would better to eliminate the relationship from the beginning because i don't want to give the impression that he drops because she is trasgender. Advice?

    If i express something that can seem offensive, please forgive me, it is ignorance or my terrible english. Thanks and love to all :)
    Not what you asked about, and there's probably a good explanation, but . . . a homophobic and xenophobic dystopia that makes genetics and nanotechnology available for people to transition with? That reads as a contradiction to me.

    As for whether to keep the broken-off relationship: make that decision in terms of plot, character development and interaction, tensions, etc. Failed relationships happen; if it doesn't have anything to do with the woman's trans-ness, I'd recommend giving the unfaithful guy some internal dialogue to make that clear.
    Last edited by AuthorGirl; 2017-11-22 at 08:11 PM. Reason: Took out a sentence that was detracting from my point.

  10. - Top - End - #160
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    Default Re: LGBTAI+ Question and Discussion Thread IV: [Citation Needed]

    Quote Originally Posted by Anymage View Post
    Was true a long time ago, when gay people had a much harder time being openly out and as such made use of little tells to communicate with other people in the know.

    Might be true to some extent today, for someone who for one reason or another wants to make homage to the symbol. But while someone with an earring in just their right ear is more likely than average to be gay (most people preferring either a matched pair or none), most gay people I've met don't give a toss about archaic codes. Or, for the most part, earrings.
    I have about as hard a time as people did years ago, before same sex marriage was even for polite discussion. I'm still not out of the closet and I'm 34 on the 10th of December.
    Last edited by ArlEammon; 2017-11-22 at 08:40 PM.

  11. - Top - End - #161
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    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: LGBTAI+ Question and Discussion Thread IV: [Citation Needed]

    Quote Originally Posted by Anymage View Post
    You don't need to arbitrarily add more characters just to get a properly diverse batch. In fact, on multiple levels, that's a horrible idea. You're better off focusing on a tight, cohesive narrative to start off rather than trying to deeply think out bunches of characters. And given that any halfway decent novel will require a lot of revisions, a lot of editing, and frankly a lot of cutting, all this extra stuff is completely unnecessary.

    If the setting takes off you're encouraged to develop characters from all across the diversity spectrum. (Although in many cases it's easier to just declare them for what they are rather than try too hard to find the "right" way to write a gay or trans or whatever character; federation level technology being able to make alterations nearly indistinguishable from being born that way might well be the easiest way to write that character.) But for right now, good writing pointers trump social justice pointers. Focus the main story now, you can broaden the setting with side stories later on down the line.
    Oh no, the characters were planned to be like that from the begining, in fact the characters won´t work if they weren´t gay or lesbian or trasgender, this facts are embeded in the narrative.

    Thanks for the advices :)

    Quote Originally Posted by EternalMelon View Post
    Ah, no, I was just unnecessarily harsh on you. I'm sorry for my reaction, I'm sure if you do your best to have the characters be believable and fleshed out things will be fine.

    Having reservations about writing affection between two men is alien to me, but I guess just try and write it as you would between two heterosexual people?

    As for trans people its.... complicated. Transitioning (and the extent of the Transition) is a very personal and unique experience. There is no one-size-fits-all answer to the extent of transitioning. Some people might find it easier to identify with a character who experiences a more limited degree of transition because it mirrors the readers situation, while others would like the fantasy of the "full"* transition. I feel like as long as the text supports a degree of gender actualization and fluidity you can't fail too hard.

    Please take my advice with a grain of salt, as I'm not sure I'm qualified to speak on this subject.

    *Sorry, no offense meant here.
    I have no conscious or intellectual reservations with affection betwen two men, but i have been raised in a conservative family in a conservative country and there is some subconscious reactions that are hard to eliminate, i keep trying to educate myself tough.

    Yeah, perhaps i am being too rigid with labels.

    Quote Originally Posted by AuthorGirl View Post
    Not what you asked about, and there's probably a good explanation, but . . . a homophobic and xenophobic dystopia that makes genetics and nanotechnology available for people to transition with? That reads as a contradiction to me.

    As for whether to keep the broken-off relationship: make that decision in terms of plot, character development and interaction, tensions, etc. Failed relationships happen; if it doesn't have anything to do with the woman's trans-ness, I'd recommend giving the unfaithful guy some internal dialogue to make that clear.
    No, no, the trasgender character is from another country, like the star trek federation, i said it in the previous phrase... but perhaps i write it wrong.

    I love dialogues and monologues and it can work, thanks!

  12. - Top - End - #162
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    Default Re: LGBTAI+ Question and Discussion Thread IV: [Citation Needed]

    Maybe you can have someone from the homophobic country ask if they broke up with her because she's trans (although probably phrasing it less nicely) and have him be bewildered that anyone would think that.

    That, or I think if you explain the circumstances of the breakup, it should be clear what the actual reason is, and it wouldn't make sense for people to assume it's something completely different.
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    Default Re: LGBTAI+ Question and Discussion Thread IV: [Citation Needed]

    Quote Originally Posted by AuthorGirl View Post
    Not what you asked about, and there's probably a good explanation, but . . . a homophobic and xenophobic dystopia that makes genetics and nanotechnology available for people to transition with? That reads as a contradiction to me.
    I mean it could work, if for example the dystopia assumes gay people just need to change to the "right gender" to "become straight."
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    Also, as a rule of thumb, if you find yourself defending your inalienable right to make someone else feel like garbage, you're on the wrong side of the argument.
    Currently playing as Atalanta/Artemis in Arcran's Pocket Monsters Online! (OOC|IC)

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    Default Re: LGBTAI+ Question and Discussion Thread IV: [Citation Needed]

    Recently I saw the word "enby" used in relation to LGBTAI+ matters, and was wondering what it means?

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    Default Re: LGBTAI+ Question and Discussion Thread IV: [Citation Needed]

    Quote Originally Posted by GrayGriffin View Post
    I mean it could work, if for example the dystopia assumes gay people just need to change to the "right gender" to "become straight."
    That's basically the case in Iran today: the government not only permits gender transitions but helps pay for them, not so much out of some progressive pro-trans impulse as out of stigma against homosexuality.

    Quote Originally Posted by AuthorGirl View Post
    Recently I saw the word "enby" used in relation to LGBTAI+ matters, and was wondering what it means?
    It's non-binary-- people whose gender doesn't conform to the traditional western male-female binary.
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    Default Re: LGBTAI+ Question and Discussion Thread IV: [Citation Needed]

    Quote Originally Posted by AuthorGirl View Post
    Recently I saw the word "enby" used in relation to LGBTAI+ matters, and was wondering what it means?
    It's short for nonbinary. NB = enby.
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    Default Re: LGBTAI+ Question and Discussion Thread IV: [Citation Needed]

    Quote Originally Posted by AuthorGirl View Post
    Recently I saw the word "enby" used in relation to LGBTAI+ matters, and was wondering what it means?
    It's a pronunciation of the letters "N" and "B." Which, as others have pointed out, stand for nonbinary.

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    Default Re: LGBTAI+ Question and Discussion Thread IV: [Citation Needed]

    Have we answered your question thoroughly enough, AuthorGirl?
    Quote Originally Posted by Jay R View Post
    : THOG NOW SCHRÖDINGER's ORC!
    Quote Originally Posted by skim172 View Post
    If you ever see Hitler riding a T-Rex in your direction - you, my friend, are a very unlucky person.
    Quote Originally Posted by noparlpf View Post
    "Ooh. Did you bring a biology textbook with you? No? Sorry, nothing personal." And then I dissect them.

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    Default Re: LGBTAI+ Question and Discussion Thread IV: [Citation Needed]

    Enby can also be used as a noun, instead of just an adjective, though. Like you can call someone an enby instead of a boy or girl.

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    Default Re: LGBTAI+ Question and Discussion Thread IV: [Citation Needed]

    Quote Originally Posted by YossarianLives View Post
    Enby can also be used as a noun, instead of just an adjective, though. Like you can call someone an enby instead of a boy or girl.
    I've seen some people opposed to that though. Same argument against using an adjective as a noun to refer to any other demographic.
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    Default Re: LGBTAI+ Question and Discussion Thread IV: [Citation Needed]

    Quote Originally Posted by noparlpf View Post
    I've seen some people opposed to that though. Same argument against using an adjective as a noun to refer to any other demographic.
    I guess the issue with somewhat unofficial words is that their uses aren't completely standardized. In my social circles, enby is used mostly as a noun and I identify with it pretty strongly. But I wouldn't be surprised to hear if I'm unusual in that regard.

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    Default Re: LGBTAI+ Question and Discussion Thread IV: [Citation Needed]

    Quote Originally Posted by Comrade View Post
    Have we answered your question thoroughly enough, AuthorGirl?
    Yes, sorry, apparently I forgot to say so after about the first two replies

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    Default Re: LGBTAI+ Question and Discussion Thread IV: [Citation Needed]

    I prefer using "boygirl" for myself.
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    Default Re: LGBTAI+ Question and Discussion Thread IV: [Citation Needed]

    Quote Originally Posted by AuthorGirl View Post
    Not what you asked about, and there's probably a good explanation, but . . . a homophobic and xenophobic dystopia that makes genetics and nanotechnology available for people to transition with? That reads as a contradiction to me.
    There's - oh, Comrade beat me to it. Yeah, that's not only theoretically possible, it's a situation that actually can and does happen IRL.

    Also, if everyone only wrote characters and themes they knew personally and were comfortable with, literature would get very dull very quickly. That's what empathy, research and consultants are for.

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    Default Re: LGBTAI+ Question and Discussion Thread IV: [Citation Needed]

    Quote Originally Posted by Serpentine View Post
    Also, if everyone only wrote characters and themes they knew personally and were comfortable with, literature would get very dull very quickly. That's what empathy, research and consultants are for.
    Good point

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