LGBTAI+ Question and Discussion Thread IV: [Citation Needed]

[AuthorGirl]

Ever since I saw the 5e Roundtable where Adam Koebel encouraged people to roleplay a gay person, I’ve been wondering what this could look like if I tried it. I have an idea for something I might try, but I wanted to check on it first.
A little bit of background. I played in some really toxic games in the 90s, such that I kind of got into the habit of not wanting sexuality to come up at all in the way I play my characters and have even thought of ways to distance my characters from being in those sorts of situations (like one time I played a druid who was into lizardfolk). The closest I’ve come to playing a character with any sort of romantic side is a current character who is a sort of emo kid who was recovering from an encounter with a changeling. And this is a character I took over from someone else who left the game, so that whole encounter was sort of a necessary backstory.
Anyways, I’ve thought of playing a eunech. Not only does it feel more like what I’m comfortable with, it is a gender nonconforming person that any transphobic people in my gaming circles might feel more comfortable with as well. So maybe a first step towards acceptance?
My concern with this is that maybe it’s too, I don’t know, maybe tragic? But I don’t know what to do about that, because all of my characters are tragic in some way.
I’m also wondering if greater restoration could be used to restore their gender, and what they would choose if given that choice (I honestly don’t know right now).

Okay, I'll admit I'm a bit confused by this, but let's see if I understand well enough:

You want to play a queer character, but you don't want romance or sexuality to be involved. So you decide to play a GNC character. You decide to make that character be a eunuch (maybe as a way of steering even more clear of sexual situations).

My advice: make a bard. There's even a historical precedent for castrating young boys in order to keep their voices from changing (so that they could sing high forever).

As for the thing of "I can't make a gay person because sex," well . . . none of my characters, straight or not, end up in sexual situations. It's a matter of their principles and priorities, not their orientations (though I'll freely admit that I love playing ace characters).

Some quick and easy ways to keep from dealing with sex around the gaming table:
1. Gaming group policy: "fade to black" whenever that stuff is mentioned.
2. Your character would rather do something else with their time and/or money.
3. Vow of chastity.
4. Asexuality.
5. Talk to your DM beforehand and work something out so that everyone can feel safe and comfortable.

Best of luck to you, and feel free to ask more questions!

[goatmeal]

I feel really bad about the reactions to this idea. I feel like maybe I wasn’t clear about some things, but I also feel that maybe it’s just a bad idea regardless of how clear I was based on these reactions. People don’t generally react this way to good ideas.
But I will clarify a few things that might be helpful.
Yes, I do know that gay and trans are not the same thing. When I mentioned a very popular streamer/game designer who self identifies as queer encouraging people to roleplay gay characters, I assumed that meant he was giving permission to roleplay the whole LGBTQIA+ spectrum. I don’t know, maybe he doesn’t even have permission to grant that permission because he’s not the entire spectrum himself.
I never claimed that this character idea was trans, though I can see that being confusing. I don’t know if nonbinaryphobic is something people talk about, so transphobic seemed closer to the right term. My idea for this characters identity would be asexual (which is what I understood the A in LGBTQIA+ stood for), possibly agender. That last part about greater restoration could be a misconception on my part and I’m certainly willing to listen if there’s something around that someone would like to correct me about.
Regarding the gender noncomforming label. Part of the idea for this character came from a lesbian (or maybe she’s bi?) person I follow on twitter talking about a story with a eunech and referring to him as gender nonconforming. We wondered if him was the correct pronoun. I assumed that she knew what she was talking about. I wanted my eunech character to be a they instead of a him, because it feels like a way to somewhat normalize the pronoun they.
I came here with this idea because that is what I understood the thread to be for. If anyone here is interested in further discussion around any misconceptions I have around this I am willing to have those conversations, but if not I understand.

[goatmeal]

My advice: make a bard. There's even a historical precedent for castrating young boys in order to keep their voices from changing (so that they could sing high forever).

Actually, this is exactly what I was planning to do! I wanted my character to have the acolyte background and be raised in the church of Waukeen where they knew that having eunuchs was better for business. Originally, I wanted them to be Chultan but then realized this will likely come across as a minstrel so that’s probably a bad idea.

I’ve done a lot of those other things in games. Part of my motivation for this is because I’ve been following a lot of nonbinary and trans game designers on Twitter recently and it feels like I’ve learned a lot from them. I’m wanting to find a space to honor that but within my own comfort zone.

[AuthorGirl]

I feel really bad about the reactions to this idea. I feel like maybe I wasn’t clear about some things, but I also feel that maybe it’s just a bad idea regardless of how clear I was based on these reactions. People don’t generally react this way to good ideas.

Hey. Please don't feel bad.

But I will clarify a few things that might be helpful.
Yes, I do know that gay and trans are not the same thing. When I mentioned a very popular streamer/game designer who self identifies as queer encouraging people to roleplay gay characters, I assumed that meant he was giving permission to roleplay the whole LGBTQIA+ spectrum. I don’t know, maybe he doesn’t even have permission to grant that permission because he’s not the entire spectrum himself.

It's impossible for one person to be the entire spectrum - let's address that right away. For example, if this guy identifies as a gay male, it's impossible for him to also be an asexual lesbian.

And just because this gay person is fine with you roleplaying a gay character, that doesn't mean other gay people will necessarily be okay with it. It's possible that a gay guy could feel mocked if his straight counterparts decided to make gay characters (and that should be respected if it can't be resolved).

I never claimed that this character idea was trans, though I can see that being confusing. I don’t know if nonbinaryphobic is something people talk about, so transphobic seemed closer to the right term. My idea for this characters identity would be asexual (which is what I understood the A in LGBTQIA+ stood for), possibly agender. That last part about greater restoration could be a misconception on my part and I’m certainly willing to listen if there’s something around that someone would like to correct me about.

Nonbinaryphobia would, I believe, be a form of transphobia.

As for the bit about greater restoration: yes, that sounds like a misconception. You seem to be talking about giving the character their genitals back and somehow having that change their gender. Correct me if that's a misinterpretation of what you meant.

Regarding the gender noncomforming label. Part of the idea for this character came from a lesbian (or maybe she’s bi?) person I follow on twitter talking about a story with a eunech and referring to him as gender nonconforming. We wondered if him was the correct pronoun. I assumed that she knew what she was talking about. I wanted my eunech character to be a they instead of a him, because it feels like a way to somewhat normalize the pronoun they.

I won't address this because, quite frankly, I don't know enough.

I came here with this idea because that is what I understood the thread to be for. If anyone here is interested in further discussion around any misconceptions I have around this I am willing to have those conversations, but if not I understand.

It is what the thread is for, and I'd love to talk to you

EDIT: just saw your new post. The backstory sounds interesting, though I haven't heard of the churches you're referring to.

[Recherché]

The thing to realize is that you are stepping into a minefield without already knowing the lay of the land. It's not impossible to do well it's just that you have to ask lots of questions and feel your way around a lot. And not mind when people start screaming at you to "Get off that freaking mine!" we aren't necessarily angry with you. You're just standing on a land mine mine that you can't see.

The other thing to remember is that LGBTQA people are not a monolithic group. While there are some things most of us would find distasteful or offensive there are also going to be a lot of things that individuals will feel differently about.

So going back to how gender is in your brain not between your legs, removing someone's genitalia does not change their gender. However some people will feel more comfortable with their bodies if certain body parts are gone. A person who's agender or some other types of nonbinary might want to remove the bits that remind them too much of the gender they were assigned at birth. It's an effect of dysphoria though. Castration does not cause gender identity.

For someone who voluntarily did this that greater restoration would probably cause psychological problems. It would certainly not change their gender. Because they aren't broken or damaged. That's just who they are and how they prefer their body to be. The implication with the idea of a greater restoration changing their gender is that their current gender is a result of damage, that it's scar tissue, not something healthy. It's similar to believing that performing on a transwoman to get rid of the breasts she's been growing for years via hormones and/surgery would suddenly change her into a man. That's what's getting people up in arms here, the idea that you could surgically change someone's gender and the implication that some genders are the results of damage.

[Anymage]

Since you mention icky high school games, I'm pretty sure that sexual minority characters were already in the party. Every group knows that one guy who always plays a lesbian.

More on the nose, D&D really isn't the best game for exploring sexual and gender identity. The vast majority of games I've been in, the screen time was spent focusing on party teamwork, where who you want to boink isn't all that relevant. Finer character details are either exaggerated (which can get annoying if sexual identity is one of those exaggerated traits), or confined to downtime (where it doesn't really inform your character). On top of that, most D&D worlds are written in such a way as to be very gay friendly (because the alternative would get Hasbro some bad press), and the trans experience is likely very different in a fantasy world where you can throw magic at the problem.

If a concept really speaks to you, roll with it. But don't feel compelled to play a gender- or sexually- atypical character just for woke points. And, at least personally speaking, my character's social ties (which is what things like partners and communities actually are) are a lot more relevant in a game where those things have mechanical representation over ones where those are background fluff to the party's acts of epic heroism.

[goatmeal]

Thanks for responding everyone. I think I learned a lot from these interactions.

Authorgirl: The gods, places, and ethnicities I referenced in my character idea are all from Tomb of Annihilation.

Anymage: when I say that I played in some toxic games in the 90s it wasn’t about what you seem to think it is. When I say toxic, I mean that every time our party went to a bar the DM had some kind of roll he made for the body measurements of the barmaids the characters met. I didn’t like this because it was objectifying women. I played a celibate cleric to avoid this. It was a bad situation, but those were the people I knew that gamed at that time. In games after this, I would often choose characters that would have reason to avoid these situations if they came up.

Recherche’: A lot of your response is getting at what I thought might be problematic stuff for this concept. I think I’ll ask a bit more about the greater restoration as that seems to be a big part of the problem. Would it make sense for a person that was born with a different gender than their biology to have a greater restoration spell used to switch their biology to match their gender? That’s kind of what I was getting at with the concept. I probably won’t ever use the concept, but any feedback on this idea might help give me some clarity on this.

I’m also wondering if I’m projecting too much trauma onto nonbinary people with this character concept. This person had their genitals removed before they were of an age to even know what that meant, and probably doesn’t know what to think of gender at this point. Is that what you mean by “the implication that some genders are a result of damage?” Maybe I’m having a hard time imagining a gender transition that is not somewhat traumatic (if only for reasons of societal pressure).

To everyone: I think the main thing is the process of me asking these questions and having them answered has been helpful in understanding nonbinary genders more.

[Recherché]

Take a look at David Reimer. Surgery and being raised as though you were another gender does not make a person actually that gender. If being raised as man/woman/neither made you become such then there would be a whole lot fewer trans people around. Instead through most of history, a large proportion of eunuchs saw themselves and were seen as men. About the only group of eunuchs I can think of who weren't were the hijra and a few other groups who practiced voluntary castration as adults because they were women or non binary already and they wanted their bodies to more closely resemble what they felt their sex should be. People have a drive to make their bodies comfortable for themselves whatever that means to them.

As for what greater restoration would do it depends on whether greater restoration takes you to your ideal body in which case it could also be used for gender confirming surgeries and plastic surgeries, it regenerates body parts that genetically should be present, or if it just causes recently removed body parts to grow back. This is a game rules question as much as a biology question. Whatever regeneration does it doesn't rewire the brain into having a different gender though.

[2D8HP]

[...]The gods, places, and ethnicities I referenced in my character idea are all from Tomb of Annihilation[..]

[...]I think the main thing is the process of me asking these questions and having them answered has been helpful in understanding nonbinary genders more.

Speaking of "nonbinary genders" in 5e D&D, some Elven deities have had mutable genders at least since the 1980 Deities & Demi-Gods book, but I noted while watching

Spoiler: this video

Show

(at about 10 minutes into the video)

that some mortal Elves are "blessed by Corellon", and may "once per long rest" change to female, male, or neither, and the evil Drow who "unlike other Elves are gendered" regard this as "subversive", and Drow with this ability become "heroes" that non-Drow Elves "welcome at temples of Corellon".

I'm very curious to see if that lore makes it into the book that's supposed to come out later this month.

[goatmeal]

As for what greater restoration would do it depends on whether greater restoration takes you to your ideal body in which case it could also be used for gender confirming surgeries and plastic surgeries, it regenerates body parts that genetically should be present

This is kind of what I was getting at. And it wasn’t so much about game mechanics, as I can’t imagine a DM you’d want to play this sort of character with saying no. The question was more about whether this would be legitimate in terms of roleplaying a transitioning player.

[Sahe]

I am not sure about greater restoration and looking at the spell description I don't think it would and as a GM I'm not sure I would allow it. Simply because it would vastly expand what the spell could do. And I also think that if being trans or enby, etc. and the transition is supposed to be part of the character development a big part of it shouldn't be solved by a 5th level spell you can just pick up at 9th level.

As far as magic schools go that let you change your genitalia to what matches your gender identity I would look at the transmutation spells alter self and (true) polymorph. They are lower level and but are only temporary changes. As a GM I would allow a character to pursue the possibility of making it a permanent change (for example there could be a famous magic plastic surgeon that has found a way how to do that).

Lastly there is the Wish spell, which allows you do whatever, as long as the GM says it's cool.


Now as a fellow RPG player here are some ideas I personally had for trans women characters in DnD:

A trans wizard who studies magic and uses it to better pass and looking for possibilities on how to use it to transition.

A warlock who sought out some entity to change her sex to match her gender identity (and picked up some additional magic and such while she was at it). This has certainly some interesting story potential with the patron either threatening to reverse the change if the warlock acts against their wishes or alternatively constantly dangling it in the front of the character to motivate them to do their bidding. The latter is also interesting since with Invocations like Mask of Many faces, Sculptor of Flesh and Master of Myriad Forms the warlock is granted gradually more power to change their appearance and body.


It is important to remember that what's between your legs is not the only important thing. There are trans woman who are perfectly happy with having a penis (and vice versa for trans men). Breasts, voice, etc. are another thing to think about.

Lastly, no one can give you permission but yourself. No one person of a minority can speak for the whole group. You are doing the legwork, asking questions and such, which is commendable and more than some professional writers do.

[Anymage]

I am not sure about greater restoration and looking at the spell description I don't think it would and as a GM I'm not sure I would allow it. Simply because it would vastly expand what the spell could do. And I also think that if being trans or enby, etc. and the transition is supposed to be part of the character development a big part of it shouldn't be solved by a 5th level spell you can just pick up at 9th level.

Death can be solved by a fifth level spell that the party can just pick up at ninth level. Hat of Disguise only costs about 500 gold in 5e, and under 2k in 3.5. And if we're looking at 3.5, any cheap magic item can be made with the "curse" that it switches the wearer's sex while held*. With the sort of magic that D&D worlds expect, transitioning should be achievable rather early into the character's career.

Which kinda goes back to what I said before. If you want to explore the day-to-day life of a person living in whatever sort of situation, you're going to want something aimed at that scope. When you're the person they call on to put down ancient dragons and eldrich abominations, little things like society's attitudes or the birth configuration of your body stopped being meaningful long ago.

*(Technically, the cursed item table says that the character's gender changes while they carry the cursed item. I'm sure that someone will now want to play a character with a powerful item that doesn't affect their body, but that changes their gender identity while used.)

[Sahe]

Death can be solved by a fifth level spell that the party can just pick up at ninth level. Hat of Disguise only costs about 500 gold in 5e, and under 2k in 3.5. And if we're looking at 3.5, any cheap magic item can be made with the "curse" that it switches the wearer's sex while held*. With the sort of magic that D&D worlds expect, transitioning should be achievable rather early into the character's career.

Which kinda goes back to what I said before. If you want to explore the day-to-day life of a person living in whatever sort of situation, you're going to want something aimed at that scope. When you're the person they call on to put down ancient dragons and eldrich abominations, little things like society's attitudes or the birth configuration of your body stopped being meaningful long ago.

If you treat it as just another character detail like eye color, yes, then it should be. I was personally more focusing on when being trans is a central and integral part of a characters story and development. I disagree that just because you hunt down dragons things like that become irrelevant. After all, I'm playing a character, not a statblock.

[JNAProductions]

If you treat it as just another character detail like eye color, yes, then it should be. I was personally more focusing on when being trans is a central and integral part of a characters story and development. I disagree that just because you hunt down dragons things like that become irrelevant. After all, I'm playing a character, not a statblock.

I'd agree that, in the D&D universe, it's much easier to transition in most settings. However, depending on the culture of the setting, it might still be a big deal-sure, you're just an X-level spell away from having your body match your gender, but what if people who know you hate you for it? Or what if you're level 1, and that's your goal, which can only be achieved by amassing large amounts of wealth to pay for the casting, or learning the spell from ancient tomes found only in a ruin?

In some games, being trans could be a minor detail. The culture is accepting and tolerant, sex-change spells or items are available, if a TOUCH pricey, and being born in a woman's body and changing that to a man's when you're older is considered uncommon, but hardly a reason to be upset. Or, hell, being genderfluid and changing body day-to-day. But in other games, where the culture is more conservative and sex-change magic is considered taboo... Suddenly it matters a lot more.

[AliceLost]

I’m also wondering if I’m projecting too much trauma onto nonbinary people with this character concept. This person had their genitals removed before they were of an age to even know what that meant, and probably doesn’t know what to think of gender at this point. Is that what you mean by “the implication that some genders are a result of damage?” Maybe I’m having a hard time imagining a gender transition that is not somewhat traumatic (if only for reasons of societal pressure).

I think the issue people were trying to point out, if this wasn't already covered, was that you seem to be drawing a connection between gender identity and sexual characteristics, which isn't a valid connection to draw. I get the impression that you are thinking of a eunich, by default, as someone with a non-binary and/or asexual identity. It is entirely possible for a person to be non-binary and/or asexual, but the presence or absence of their genitalia doesn't connect to that at all. It's equally possible to have a gay, straight or bi man or woman with removed genitalia, and as a consequence the process may be traumatic or a relief for them.

So there's nothing in particular wrong with the character concept that you describe as long as you understand that it's not the default: them being non-binary and them being a eunich would be two unrelated aspects of their existence. Also, science suggests that humans have a fixed concept of gender from a very young age, and what our bodies do or have done to them doesn't alter that, so the age that they became a eunich also wouldn't affect their gender identity.

[SirKazum]

I've got a grammar question involving non-binary pronouns... I asked in Media Discussions, but I'm asking it again here, upon suggestion by Fyraltari.

In a sci-fi book I'm writing, there are alien races that don't have a gender division (in the specific case at hand, because they're hermaphrodites), so I thought I'd reflect that in writing by using "they" instead of either "he" or "she", as such characters are neither male nor female.

So far, so good. But then I came upon a construction that gave me pause, so I'd like to run it by you folks, to see if anyone more used to this kind of pronoun can tell me what's common usage.

Jekh was/were so taken aback at what they perceived as a sudden shift in attitude that they forgot to address the flagrant display of indiscipline.

Relevant part in bold. "They" is grammatically plural, so if I used the pronoun instead of the name, it would go "They were so taken aback". That's fine. But... "Jekh were"? That sounds weird to me. Maybe because, normally, when you introduce a singular third-person entity by a noun (whether proper or common) instead of a pronoun, the singular "was" naturally flows from it. But, if I use "was", it turns into a concordance problem when I introduce the pronoun "they" later on in the sentence.

So... when it comes to non-binary people or otherwise people referred to as "they", is any verb that has them as a subject always inflected as plural, even when that pronoun isn't there? Or is the singular inflection right in this case?

[Lycunadari]

I've got a grammar question involving non-binary pronouns... I asked in Media Discussions, but I'm asking it again here, upon suggestion by Fyraltari.

I've seen both options, but using singular inflection is much more common, I think, and also what I would use.

I'm checking what is used in Capricious: Gender Diverse Pronouns, and all the stories that use singular they use singular inflection after names.

[noparlpf]

If you use the proper name or another noun, use the singular form of the verb. "Jekh was" is correct. If you use the pronoun "they," use the plural form of the verb. "They were" is correct.

[SirKazum]

Thanks a lot! I'll use it that way.

[Lady Tialait]

I feel bad about being disappointed about someone I've never met being trans.

Lemme explain. My father left my mother when I was 2 year old, and I was raised by a single dad. Later on he remarried and had my brother. I'm now 33 and I FINALLY found my mother, and she told me I have two brothers and a sister. I was pretty excited to have a sister, and when I mentioned that, she told me she misspoke and I have three brothers. Turns out a week before I found my mother he had told everyone. I feel bad that i'm disappointed that I don't have a sister. Mind you, here in about a week I'm going to meet my three bothers and my mother and am really happy to be doing that.

Thought I would vent on the internet to random people and see if anyone else has heard of anything similar, I know it's a bunch of low percentage chances here. (Single Father, and Trans-Men both being small parts of the population).

[Stuebi]

So, I do hope I'm not coming off as too ignorant when writing this, but I'd really appreciate some opinions/advice if anyone feels like it.

It's about two friends of mine, let's call them A and B.

A I've known since childhood, we went to school together for more than 6 years. We continued being friends after this, keeping contact mostly over skype (later discord). A is trans, male to female (I apologize if you a re not supposed to say it like this, it's how she says it). She came out shortly before we got out of school, went trough a rough spot for a while, but by now is happy. Or at least she was, until last week.

A and B got together after meeting in a PnP group I used to run. B is a gamer like me, and has been a good friend for years. So I was happy to see the two of them hit it off. The relationship lasted for a little more than a year, until last week on thursday, when a big fight happened and B called the relationship off.

A has approached me for support and advice, seeing that I still hang regularly with B. I managed to cheer her up somewhat, and hopefully shes doing fine at the office, but as far as advice goes, I was stumped after hearing what happened.

A told B about her situation, and her being trans. B was hurt, appearantly, for not having been told even after they started a relationship. He was hurt even more after hearing that many of their shared friends already knew, and that he was one of the few people in our friendcircle that remained unaware.

B has talked to me about it, we had a brief conversation in which he admitted that he mainly feels betrayed for not having been told, but also just generally unsure what the whole thing means to him. And here too I was unable to really offer any meaningful help, beyond telling him to just sleep it over some more and thinka bout what he wants to do.

And that's it. I have no idea what to tell either of them, which sucks because I'd really like to help. My gut reaction is that withholding it was probably not a good idea, especially considering she specifically left her SO out and told almost all of her other friends. On the other hand, I do think this is not something that should sink the relationship completely. B admits he was perfectly happy before the fight, and A is terribly heartbroken.

If anybody got an experience relating to this, or just general ideas on what could be done, I'd be incredibly thankful. It would mean a lot to me to be able to help these two.

[Kesnit]

And that's it. I have no idea what to tell either of them, which sucks because I'd really like to help. My gut reaction is that withholding it was probably not a good idea, especially considering she specifically left her SO out and told almost all of her other friends.

I suspect this is the root of the issue. If A hadn't told anyone (or only a very small group), B would not be feeling as left out as he probably is. He and A were supposedly really close, but now he finds out that she neglected to tell him a major thing about her life - something a lot of people already knew. That's a pretty big kick in the teeth!

On the other hand, I do think this is not something that should sink the relationship completely. B admits he was perfectly happy before the fight, and A is terribly heartbroken.

I would encourage B to talk to A about this. Maybe there is a reason she didn't tell him. Also, finding out your partner is trans can be a huge shock. It may just take time for B to wrap his head around this. Again, this is where talking to A can help.

[halfeye]

If B wants children, it's probably over. If A knew B wanted children, that's perhaps why B wasn't told, and that would be a mistake.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

If anybody got an experience relating to this, or just general ideas on what could be done, I'd be incredibly thankful. It would mean a lot to me to be able to help these two.

Disclaimer: this is my immediate gut reaction. Not knowing either participant, I cannot in any way assure that my gut matches either individual.

Putting myself in A's shoes, I'm guessing she didn't tell B because she was scared that she would be rejected by a potential romantic partner due to being trans. She was more comfortable telling others because she didn't see them as potential life partners. It is a paradox, that when you are trying to create a relationship with someone, you are far more scared about revealing bits of you that might drive them away than when establishing regular friendships. If one non-potential-partner turns out to be transphobe, well, not much is lost. But if the person who you'd like to spend your life with rejects you for being trans, that stings a hell lot more.

Did she make a massive mistake? Yes, but she did it, I feel, out of fear of rejection, and that is something B should be able to empathise with. If I were in your shoes, Stuebi, that's the angle I'd approach it from. Try to get B to understand just how scared A would be to reveal that to him, because he is so special to her. Tell him to imagine telling a hot woman at a bar about his vintage action figure collection, or his love of D&D or some other major geek thing he'd hide from a potential romantic partner but has no problem revealing to a friend, and then tell him to multiply that fear by 10 or 100, and then tell him that that doesn't even come close to the fear of a trans to reveal themselves. Don't minimize the guilt of A, but make it understandable.

Yours,

Grey Wolf

[Stuebi]

Disclaimer: this is my immediate gut reaction. Not knowing either participant, I cannot in any way assure that my gut matches either individual.

Putting myself in A's shoes, I'm guessing she didn't tell B because she was scared that she would be rejected by a potential romantic partner due to being trans. She was more comfortable telling others because she didn't see them as potential life partners. It is a paradox, that when you are trying to create a relationship with someone, you are far more scared about revealing bits of you that might drive them away than when establishing regular friendships. If one non-potential-partner turns out to be transphobe, well, not much is lost. But if the person who you'd like to spend your life with rejects you for being trans, that stings a hell lot more.

Did she make a massive mistake? Yes, but she did it, I feel, out of fear of rejection, and that is something B should be able to empathise with. If I were in your shoes, Stuebi, that's the angle I'd approach it from. Try to get B to understand just how scared A would be to reveal that to him, because he is so special to her. Tell him to imagine telling a hot woman at a bar about his vintage action figure collection, or his love of D&D or some other major geek thing he'd hide from a potential romantic partner but has no problem revealing to a friend, and then tell him to multiply that fear by 10 or 100, and then tell him that that doesn't even come close to the fear of a trans to reveal themselves. Don't minimize the guilt of A, but make it understandable.

Yours,

Grey Wolf

I can see that, it's just the exact issue of me being able to put myself into B's shoes and understand why you would be hurt that you were not told.

Either way, thank you three for commenting. It seems B will and A will have a talk, with the former basically admitting that he will be fine with the whole deal as long as there are no more secrets. A was understandably glad that being trans does not seem to be an issue.

I also want to apologize, normally this should be the kind of thing where I shouldnt struggle to come up with decent advice myself. But this is a subject matter that I have been afraid to touch in fear of being either completely wrong, ignorant or just plain hurtful.

[ve4grm]

I also want to apologize, normally this should be the kind of thing where I shouldnt struggle to come up with decent advice myself. But this is a subject matter that I have been afraid to touch in fear of being either completely wrong, ignorant or just plain hurtful.

I don't think an apology necessary. It's hard to know exactly what to do when people you love are hurting.

"Talking it out" is usually a good answer, though. Good luck to the both of them!

[Eldest]

a trans

Quick note, that's... sorta dehumanizing to call somebody just by their identity? I mean, if I was to call somebody a gay or a black, that sounds pretty bad.

On the main thing, the question mainly depends in my mind on if the group that she told knew her before she figured out she was trans? Because, by definition, you have to tell those people you're trans. And, frankly, even if she didn't have to tell people: it's her choice to disclose her identity or medical history. I don't see anything wrong with her decision.

[Razade]

A should have been upfront with it. Maybe not right off the bat but certainly if the relationship has gone on a while, that's just not something to withhold so long as you don't think your partner is going to get violent over it. That doesn't seem the case here. The worst thing that could happen, as it seems in this scenario (not the worst thing period), is that they break up. Which would be a bummer to be sure but no one's entitled to a relationship. But why would you want to be in a relationship with someone who doesn't love you for who you are? I'd question even more if you don't feel comfortable sharing because of possible violence or harm...why be with that person at all? That's a major red flag for me in any relationship. If I think my partner will get violent if I don't divulge something the relationship is over.

A's not in the wrong really. No one here's in the wrong. But A should have told B. The two of them should absolutely talk about this between themselves.

[-Sentinel-]

Hello,

I learned recently that not all trans people have experienced gender dysphoria.

Which surprised me a lot, because I used to think that discomfort with your gender assigned at birth was pretty much a defining element of transgenderism.

If you are trans but have never been dysphoric, what made you realize you were trans?

[Sahe]

Can't really answer that to be honest, since I do experience dysphoria. Though not all people experience the same amount of dysphoria about the same things. I personally aren't as bothered by more male coded clothing than some other trans women I know.