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    Default Re: LGBTAI+ Question and Discussion Thread IV: [Citation Needed]

    Quote Originally Posted by The Eye View Post
    I'll never understand this "18 years old are complete adults" culture, I bet the person who created this tradition never has spent time with a 18 years.
    Well you have to remember that in the West 18 year olds are old enough to go to war and die in war. So it's hard to describe them as anything other than an adult, even when many other 18 year olds have the virtue of not having to mature quite that quickly.

    I know that my own personal experience is that when I was a 18 year old Private, I definitely was significantly more mature than even 24 year old college students in many ways, I had to be. And so you have to realize that in many situations we have to treat 18 year olds as adult even if that's not a great assumption in all cases.
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    Default Re: LGBTAI+ Question and Discussion Thread IV: [Citation Needed]

    Quote Originally Posted by AMFV View Post
    Well you have to remember that in the West 18 year olds are old enough to go to war and die in war. So it's hard to describe them as anything other than an adult, even when many other 18 year olds have the virtue of not having to mature quite that quickly.

    I know that my own personal experience is that when I was a 18 year old Private, I definitely was significantly more mature than even 24 year old college students in many ways, I had to be. And so you have to realize that in many situations we have to treat 18 year olds as adult even if that's not a great assumption in all cases.
    Freaking war ruining everything for everyone as usual.
    I'm not a native english speaker and I'm dyslexic(that doesn't mean I have low IQ quite the opposite actually it means I make a lot of typos).

    So I beg for forgiveness, patience and comprehension.

    Quote Originally Posted by Max_Killjoy View Post
    It's like somewhere along the way, "freedom of speech" became "all negative response is censorship".

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    Default Re: LGBTAI+ Question and Discussion Thread IV: [Citation Needed]

    Quote Originally Posted by S@tanicoaldo View Post
    Freaking war ruining everything for everyone as usual.
    Well, without war I definitely wouldn't exist.

    So yeah, probably better for everyone.
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    Default Re: LGBTAI+ Question and Discussion Thread IV: [Citation Needed]

    Quote Originally Posted by golentan View Post
    Well, without war I definitely wouldn't exist.

    So yeah, probably better for everyone.
    Well, I guess he does have the coolest looking horse of the four. :/
    I'm not a native english speaker and I'm dyslexic(that doesn't mean I have low IQ quite the opposite actually it means I make a lot of typos).

    So I beg for forgiveness, patience and comprehension.

    Quote Originally Posted by Max_Killjoy View Post
    It's like somewhere along the way, "freedom of speech" became "all negative response is censorship".

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    Default Re: LGBTAI+ Question and Discussion Thread IV: [Citation Needed]

    Quote Originally Posted by golentan View Post
    Well, without war I definitely wouldn't exist.

    So yeah, probably better for everyone.
    Without war the world would be an unrecognisably different place and none of us, nor our parents, nor our parents' parents to the hundredth generation would exist
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    The only person in the past two pages who has known what (s)he has been talking about is Heliomance.
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    I just don't want to have long romantic conversations or any sort of drama with my computer, okay? It knows what kind of porn I watch. I don't want to mess that up by allowing it to judge any of my choices in romance.

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    Default Re: LGBTAI+ Question and Discussion Thread IV: [Citation Needed]

    Quote Originally Posted by S@tanicoaldo View Post
    Freaking war ruining everything for everyone as usual.
    I don't know, I'm a lot better person that I think I would otherwise have been because I went to war as I did. So I'm not sure that those 18 year old privates are ruined. If anything it's the people who now have to compete with those who had to make life and death decisions at 18, and therefore are seen as less mature by comparison since they didn't have to develop that.

    Quote Originally Posted by golentan View Post
    Well, without war I definitely wouldn't exist.

    So yeah, probably better for everyone.
    I think it's unlikely I would either, given that my great-grandfather immigrated from Germany after the war as a result of it. I mean it's possible that people still would have met. But it seems unlikely.

    Quote Originally Posted by Heliomance View Post
    Without war the world would be an unrecognisably different place and none of us, nor our parents, nor our parents' parents to the hundredth generation would exist
    True. And we'd have a lot more boring novels and video games.
    My Avatar is Glimtwizzle, a Gnomish Fighter/Illusionist by Cuthalion.

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    Default Re: LGBTAI+ Question and Discussion Thread IV: [Citation Needed]

    Quote Originally Posted by WarKitty View Post
    I think what bugs people more is that, at 18, you go straight from a "you have to live with your parents and they have to take care of you, even if it's a bad environment" to "your parents have absolutely no obligations to you and they can throw you on the street with nothing but the clothes on your back."

    It's caused a lot of trouble for foster care kids in the past especially, although they're getting better about providing transitional programs.
    It's evidently not perfect. There unfortunately hasn't been a better alternative. The opposite (parents not giving up their authority over the children) would be FAR worse in many cases. Getting children under 18 actually removed from their parents is pretty hard, especially if the offenses are not super overt. It would be a nightmare for an adult to still be under these restrictions if we didn't have a nice black and white line that says "you're parental authority has ended".

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    Default Re: LGBTAI+ Question and Discussion Thread IV: [Citation Needed]

    Quote Originally Posted by The Eye View Post
    She keep talking about wanting to help a NGO who helps kids in this condition but I think despite the good intensions putting all these kids in the same room sounds like a bad idea to me.
    All of them at once? Yeah, probably. But you'd be surprised how much meeting people with a shared experience can help. Also, some of it is providing counseling, or housing, or other such things. There are some good charities out there.

    Well, to me they should! It's a parent job to provide to his child not matter what, they have literally one job and they not only failed to provide but also did the opposite of what apparent should! They literally abandoned their kids, that makes me sick.
    Good! That means you're a decent person.

    But it's easy to say that from the outside. If you literally have nothing, your first concerns are food and shelter. But that's also where these NGOs come in. They can help with legal recourse, or they can help with the basic sustenance, so that the kid can devote headspace to such a topic.

    Well, it's just that I judge people all the time in my head, but since I never externalize it she doesn't know any better :|

    Well, I don't know if you read my other posts but I kind of... Never had friends before. I just started socializing more this year. So I don't know how to be a good friend in general, I'm kind of an unpleasant person.

    We kind of have this bound because of a thing that happened in her life that and she thinks I helped her even though I just wanted to help her indirectly.

    Her father had a stroke and that caused many problems, he lost the movement of his legs and right arm, he can't speak and was severely mentally damaged.

    She was really upset and cried a lot at work because of this, she claimed to be overloaded and depressed.

    One day I overheard she talking to one of her friends, she wassaying that she would rather see her father dead than on that state, a shadow of his former self, that really struck me.

    On her birthday all the professors were giving her gifts and all that jazz and I gave her the book "The Death of Ivan Ilyich" since it kind of talks about this situation, I thought it could bring her some peace.

    Some days after that she claimed she loved the book and it changed her views on her father and his disease, she started thanking me and talking to me, but the point of me giving her the book is so that I wouldn’t have to talk to her at all because "me bad with talk" but she thought what I did was a great gesture and changed her life.

    Soon sometime after that, she said she started trying to hear what is on her father’s mind and they started painting and drawing and that's how they are communicating, I was happy for her but I didn't really cared, I didn't knew her father and it wasn't my idea so I don’t know why she was thanking me.

    And then she came to see me as this wise and kind person when really I just wanted her to learn that sick people have rich inner worlds just as we healthy people do, sometimes even richer.

    Now she trusts me and sees me as someone that I’m not.
    I haven't read your other posts, so apologies if I miss something.

    I feel you, man. I'm nothing like the extent you're talking about, but I (and many others here) have had social anxiety, few real friends, etc while growing up. I'm awful at talking with people face-to-face. (I honestly don't know why some people became friends with me, but they saw more in me than I did at the time.) Kudos to you for trying to break free from that and expand your social circle. I know it's a hard thing to do.

    As far as this specific situation, I can't give you a lot of advice, but I can maybe help you understand where she's coming from.

    You say she sees you as wise and kind? That's because, no matter how much you might want to downplay it, that was a very kind thing you did for her. you may not have intended to foster a friendship from it, but it certainly meant a lot to her regardless of intent.

    Do you regret that she's now talking to you more? That she's trying to be your friend? You did say you're trying to socialize more, so even if unintended this seems to fit with your goal?

    If you are indeed willing to be her friend on this, and willing to let her trust you, my advice would be to have a bit of a talk with her. Tell her that you're not always good with this "socializing" thing, and that you're going to make mistakes, and might say or do some things that will come across as judgemental. And ask her to bear with you when that happens. Tell her you're still learning how to do this, but you'll try.

    Honesty and forthrightness, and making clear that it isn't your intent to hurt, will do a lot to ensure you're both coming at this from the same place, and help prevent future misunderstandings.

    Side note: you mention professors. Are you one of her professors? A fellow student? If you're in an authority position with her, then be careful, as the line between appropriate friendship and judgemental jerk-ness is trickier to walk from that side. You can still be a supportive friend, though.

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    Default Re: LGBTAI+ Question and Discussion Thread IV: [Citation Needed]

    <war>
    ok let's see how quickly we can get this thread locked too
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    Default Re: LGBTAI+ Question and Discussion Thread IV: [Citation Needed]

    Quote Originally Posted by ve4grm View Post
    Do you regret that she's now talking to you more? That she's trying to be your friend? You did say you're trying to socialize more, so even if unintended this seems to fit with your goal?

    If you are indeed willing to be her friend on this, and willing to let her trust you, my advice would be to have a bit of a talk with her. Tell her that you're not always good with this "socializing" thing, and that you're going to make mistakes, and might say or do some things that will come across as judgemental. And ask her to bear with you when that happens. Tell her you're still learning how to do this, but you'll try.

    Honesty and forthrightness, and making clear that it isn't your intent to hurt, will do a lot to ensure you're both coming at this from the same place, and help prevent future misunderstandings.

    Side note: you mention professors. Are you one of her professors? A fellow student? If you're in an authority position with her, then be careful, as the line between appropriate friendship and judgemental jerk-ness is trickier to walk from that side. You can still be a supportive friend, though.
    I guess it is, it's just that we don't have much in common.

    No she teaches at the same university departament I do. We are co-workers.
    Last edited by The Eye; 2017-09-15 at 03:24 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd-o-rama View Post
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    Default Re: LGBTAI+ Question and Discussion Thread IV: [Citation Needed]

    When people state their pronouns, why do many list both the subject and object form ("he/him", "she/her", "they/them")? Isn't the object form already given from the subject form?
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    Default Re: LGBTAI+ Question and Discussion Thread IV: [Citation Needed]

    Because some people use uncommon pronouns where the different grammatical forms may not be obvious or already known. I mean would you know the possessive of "Ey" offhand? (It's "eir" BTW. )

    Alternatively some people may mix pronouns from a couple of different styles in which case it's a useful guide to have all the forms.


    For people who's pronouns follow patterns that are more obvious it's mostly just tradition/a cultural thing among certain groups.

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    Default Re: LGBTAI+ Question and Discussion Thread IV: [Citation Needed]

    This is just my theorizing, but she and he can sound a lot alike, so saying both, for example, she and her or he and him helps make sure the message gets across with a little signal redundancy.
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    Default Re: LGBTAI+ Question and Discussion Thread IV: [Citation Needed]

    Do people generally respond well to avoiding personal pronouns as much as possible? I can't always keep things straight in my head, and there are a lot of pronouns I never heard of, so I often just drop pronouns from my sentences.

    It's not like I go out of my way to do it, either; sentences are really easy to form without using "he/she/zhe/etc.", and most people I've done it around don't even notice. So, is this something people tend to get upset about? Or am I being pretty much objectively offensive?

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    Default Re: LGBTAI+ Question and Discussion Thread IV: [Citation Needed]

    I don't mind it and I do it as much as I reasonably can for a gender fluid friend of mine who's very in the closet with most people. I figure it's at least more respectful than misgendering them.

    I do kinda limit it when it'll make the language sound obviously forced and unnatural but that's at least partially because I really don't want to get people's suspicions up. So yeah I'm not an expert but it doesn't bother me.

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    Default Re: LGBTAI+ Question and Discussion Thread IV: [Citation Needed]

    Quote Originally Posted by Future Sword View Post
    Do people generally respond well to avoiding personal pronouns as much as possible? I can't always keep things straight in my head, and there are a lot of pronouns I never heard of, so I often just drop pronouns from my sentences.

    It's not like I go out of my way to do it, either; sentences are really easy to form without using "he/she/zhe/etc.", and most people I've done it around don't even notice. So, is this something people tend to get upset about? Or am I being pretty much objectively offensive?
    It . . . can come across as insulting to some people, just to warn you. Yes, it can be tricky to remember, especially the more novel pronouns, but it can feel like you are not respecting their pronouns at all, almost dehumanizing them. Now, not everyone will take it this way, see above, but it can feel that way.
    Quote Originally Posted by Calanon View Post
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    Default Re: LGBTAI+ Question and Discussion Thread IV: [Citation Needed]

    Quote Originally Posted by Recherché View Post
    Because some people use uncommon pronouns where the different grammatical forms may not be obvious or already known. I mean would you know the possessive of "Ey" offhand? (It's "eir" BTW. )

    Alternatively some people may mix pronouns from a couple of different styles in which case it's a useful guide to have all the forms.


    For people who's pronouns follow patterns that are more obvious it's mostly just tradition/a cultural thing among certain groups.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ravens_cry View Post
    This is just my theorizing, but she and he can sound a lot alike, so saying both, for example, she and her or he and him helps make sure the message gets across with a little signal redundancy.
    Makes sense. I've only ever seen the obvious pairings, written. Thanks!
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    Default Re: LGBTAI+ Question and Discussion Thread IV: [Citation Needed]

    Quote Originally Posted by Future Sword View Post
    Do people generally respond well to avoiding personal pronouns as much as possible? I can't always keep things straight in my head, and there are a lot of pronouns I never heard of, so I often just drop pronouns from my sentences.

    It's not like I go out of my way to do it, either; sentences are really easy to form without using "he/she/zhe/etc.", and most people I've done it around don't even notice. So, is this something people tend to get upset about? Or am I being pretty much objectively offensive?
    Part of that definitely depends upon the context in which one is speaking and how eloquently one is able to say things and how quickly one can think on one's feet in terms of phraseology to avoid saying something that would just sound awkward without pronouns or that would drive home the lack of use of pronouns via too much repetition of the person's proper name or nickname.

    The tolerances for those things are also going to vary depending upon context and the actual people involved.

    Easy to avoid (3rd person) pronouns if I only mentioned someone once in one sentence, for example. It'd be a lot harder in an extended exchange where I was talking about them to someone else while they were present or acting as a biographer or hype man.

    If no one has ever commented on it or even visibly reacted to what you were doing, there's probably no issue within your particular social circle, at least when it comes to those who are out to you. Barring some kind of situation where you're, like, the Gaston of your social circles and could get them to sing your praises in a musical number with only a minimal amount of bribery.

    Quote Originally Posted by Future Sword View Post
    My gay friend called me the F-slur and more today, during a League match. Is that, like, okay? Because it kinda made my brain break, being called these things by a gay guy. He was cackling up a storm while he did it, like he was having the time of his life.
    Pretty much nothing that anyone ever says or ever will say during a League match is acceptable discourse. This is no exception to that general rule.

    Insulting people is rude, regardless of what words one chooses to use for that purpose. Deliberately being rude to one another as part of ****-talking as part of certain forms of bonding only works if everyone is actually comfortable with the exchange.
    Last edited by Coidzor; 2017-09-19 at 03:58 AM.
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    Default Re: LGBTAI+ Question and Discussion Thread IV: [Citation Needed]

    Quote Originally Posted by Future Sword View Post
    Do people generally respond well to avoiding personal pronouns as much as possible? I can't always keep things straight in my head, and there are a lot of pronouns I never heard of, so I often just drop pronouns from my sentences.
    I´m German and I´m generally used to using the formal version of the language, which generally doesn´t know personal pronouns, being unisex, if you want. I must admit that I´ve a hard time adapting to a use of language I see as "artificial" as I´m long used to an alternative.

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    Default Re: LGBTAI+ Question and Discussion Thread IV: [Citation Needed]

    In speech, I find it's often quite easy to simply elide the pronouns entirely. People will naturally insert them into the sentence they heard to make sense of it, and usually won't even notice. It can be very useful when you want to avoid misgendering someone but aren't sure if they're out to everyone present.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalirren View Post
    The only person in the past two pages who has known what (s)he has been talking about is Heliomance.
    Quote Originally Posted by golentan View Post
    I just don't want to have long romantic conversations or any sort of drama with my computer, okay? It knows what kind of porn I watch. I don't want to mess that up by allowing it to judge any of my choices in romance.

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    Default Re: LGBTAI+ Question and Discussion Thread IV: [Citation Needed]

    Quote Originally Posted by Heliomance View Post
    In speech, I find it's often quite easy to simply elide the pronouns entirely. People will naturally insert them into the sentence they heard to make sense of it, and usually won't even notice. It can be very useful when you want to avoid misgendering someone but aren't sure if they're out to everyone present.
    In english, eliding into "ee" or "eh" also sometimes works in that situation. It's there enough that people hear a pronoun, but it's enough of a generic vowel sound that most people will just fill in whatever.
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    Default Re: LGBTAI+ Question and Discussion Thread IV: [Citation Needed]

    Spoiler: Confusions about orientation
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    I stopped assuming I was heterosexual at approximately the same moment I found out there were other sexual orientations. The assumption kinda crept back through the following steps:

    0. (No, having a Step #0 does not make any sense, but in this case it sort of does. Step #0 was the basic setup.)

    This is all I was told about LGBTAI+ stuff: "Some men like other men. The word for that is homosexual. Some people don't like it but it's an okay thing."

    . . . effort was made?

    I absorbed more information over time.

    1. My "sex education class" which was basically The Talk but scarier and from my grandmother. "AuthorGirl, if you kiss boys - and G, if you kiss girls - we won't be able to take you anywhere because you will have inappropriate behaviour." (G being my brother.)

    2. Falling for a boy. Usually a pretty strong indicator that a girl is straight, right?

    ---

    Then I had an ambiguous feeling or two about female acquaintances. Those feelings were thoroughly blocked out because they were very inappropriate.

    ---

    Then I had some rather unambiguous feelings about fictional female characters. I guess that makes sense - no guilt, no habit of thinking "we're just friends and what else would we be?"

    By this point, it's seeming quite obvious that I am attracted to girls.

    ---

    Here's the thing. In real life, most people are generic PeopleTM who do not make me feel anything whatsoever beyond vague intellectual interest / friendship and loyalty if those feelings have had time to grow. I'm guessing that's pretty normal?

    That's even more true when it comes to boys. It's very, very rare that I'll feel any "fluttery feelings" towards boys; there have been precisely two exceptions.

    Girls (that is, the ones I don't actually know and can't get particularly confused or guilty about) have lately caused "fluttery feelings" with embarrassing frequency.

    If a girl were to flirt with me, I'd probably be extremely confused but basically happy with that turn of events. When boys flirt with me, I feel . . . it's hard to describe. Something close to threatened. Again, there have been two exceptions.

    ---

    Here endeth the ramble. I guess my question is, am I bisexual or what?

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    Default Re: LGBTAI+ Question and Discussion Thread IV: [Citation Needed]

    Quote Originally Posted by AuthorGirl View Post
    Spoiler: Confusions about orientation
    Show
    I stopped assuming I was heterosexual at approximately the same moment I found out there were other sexual orientations. The assumption kinda crept back through the following steps:

    0. (No, having a Step #0 does not make any sense, but in this case it sort of does. Step #0 was the basic setup.)

    This is all I was told about LGBTAI+ stuff: "Some men like other men. The word for that is homosexual. Some people don't like it but it's an okay thing."

    . . . effort was made?

    I absorbed more information over time.

    1. My "sex education class" which was basically The Talk but scarier and from my grandmother. "AuthorGirl, if you kiss boys - and G, if you kiss girls - we won't be able to take you anywhere because you will have inappropriate behaviour." (G being my brother.)

    2. Falling for a boy. Usually a pretty strong indicator that a girl is straight, right?

    ---

    Then I had an ambiguous feeling or two about female acquaintances. Those feelings were thoroughly blocked out because they were very inappropriate.

    ---

    Then I had some rather unambiguous feelings about fictional female characters. I guess that makes sense - no guilt, no habit of thinking "we're just friends and what else would we be?"

    By this point, it's seeming quite obvious that I am attracted to girls.

    ---

    Here's the thing. In real life, most people are generic PeopleTM who do not make me feel anything whatsoever beyond vague intellectual interest / friendship and loyalty if those feelings have had time to grow. I'm guessing that's pretty normal?

    That's even more true when it comes to boys. It's very, very rare that I'll feel any "fluttery feelings" towards boys; there have been precisely two exceptions.

    Girls (that is, the ones I don't actually know and can't get particularly confused or guilty about) have lately caused "fluttery feelings" with embarrassing frequency.

    If a girl were to flirt with me, I'd probably be extremely confused but basically happy with that turn of events. When boys flirt with me, I feel . . . it's hard to describe. Something close to threatened. Again, there have been two exceptions.

    ---

    Here endeth the ramble. I guess my question is, am I bisexual or what?
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    Its pretty likely that you're some variation on bi. However not all bi people are attracted to both genders equally. For a long while I used to describe myself as 80% lesbian. (Nowadays I just go with queer because its more complicated and finding a super exact label is a lot of work for little reward.)

    Those feelings of being threatened by guys flirting with you could be because guys tend to be a bit more assertive than women in flirting which you might find threatening. It could also be that given your background the idea of being with a guy is a little intimidating. It could also be that you aren't interested in men most of the time.

    My suggestion would be to not worry so much over labels. I know it can be scary to not have one and to be adrift without a category to put yourself in but making yourself fit to any category can limit you in ways that hurt over time. Forcing yourself to stick within the boundaries of a label when you don't actually belong will make things worse not better. So let yourself fall for whoever you're going to fall for and worry about labels someday in the future.

  24. - Top - End - #54
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: LGBTAI+ Question and Discussion Thread IV: [Citation Needed]

    Quote Originally Posted by Recherché View Post
    Spoiler: Orientation Stuff
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    Its pretty likely that you're some variation on bi. However not all bi people are attracted to both genders equally. For a long while I used to describe myself as 80% lesbian. (Nowadays I just go with queer because its more complicated and finding a super exact label is a lot of work for little reward.)

    Those feelings of being threatened by guys flirting with you could be because guys tend to be a bit more assertive than women in flirting which you might find threatening. It could also be that given your background the idea of being with a guy is a little intimidating. It could also be that you aren't interested in men most of the time.

    My suggestion would be to not worry so much over labels. I know it can be scary to not have one and to be adrift without a category to put yourself in but making yourself fit to any category can limit you in ways that hurt over time. Forcing yourself to stick within the boundaries of a label when you don't actually belong will make things worse not better. So let yourself fall for whoever you're going to fall for and worry about labels someday in the future.
    That helps a lot, thank you.

  25. - Top - End - #55
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    Default Re: LGBTAI+ Question and Discussion Thread IV: [Citation Needed]

    Quote Originally Posted by AuthorGirl View Post
    Spoiler: Confusions about orientation
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    I stopped assuming I was heterosexual at approximately the same moment I found out there were other sexual orientations. The assumption kinda crept back through the following steps:

    0. (No, having a Step #0 does not make any sense, but in this case it sort of does. Step #0 was the basic setup.)

    This is all I was told about LGBTAI+ stuff: "Some men like other men. The word for that is homosexual. Some people don't like it but it's an okay thing."

    . . . effort was made?

    I absorbed more information over time.

    1. My "sex education class" which was basically The Talk but scarier and from my grandmother. "AuthorGirl, if you kiss boys - and G, if you kiss girls - we won't be able to take you anywhere because you will have inappropriate behaviour." (G being my brother.)

    2. Falling for a boy. Usually a pretty strong indicator that a girl is straight, right?

    ---

    Then I had an ambiguous feeling or two about female acquaintances. Those feelings were thoroughly blocked out because they were very inappropriate.

    ---

    Then I had some rather unambiguous feelings about fictional female characters. I guess that makes sense - no guilt, no habit of thinking "we're just friends and what else would we be?"

    By this point, it's seeming quite obvious that I am attracted to girls.

    ---

    Here's the thing. In real life, most people are generic PeopleTM who do not make me feel anything whatsoever beyond vague intellectual interest / friendship and loyalty if those feelings have had time to grow. I'm guessing that's pretty normal?

    That's even more true when it comes to boys. It's very, very rare that I'll feel any "fluttery feelings" towards boys; there have been precisely two exceptions.

    Girls (that is, the ones I don't actually know and can't get particularly confused or guilty about) have lately caused "fluttery feelings" with embarrassing frequency.

    If a girl were to flirt with me, I'd probably be extremely confused but basically happy with that turn of events. When boys flirt with me, I feel . . . it's hard to describe. Something close to threatened. Again, there have been two exceptions.

    ---

    Here endeth the ramble. I guess my question is, am I bisexual or what?
    Hrrm, I usually default to bisexual in describing myself, but kind of like with you, the situation is arguably more complicated than that. My interests vary in both object and intensity over time, and while I usually am more attracted to women, on the occasions I've been attracted to men it's been at a much greater intensity. And that's not even getting into... Anyway.

    Basically, whatever word you care to use for your situation, it doesn't change the situation. I'd actually advise against trying to define yourself too much, labels should be descriptive rather than prescriptive, and if you're in a state of exploration and self discovery... Well, it's a good time to figure out who you are and what you want in life!
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  26. - Top - End - #56
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    Default Re: LGBTAI+ Question and Discussion Thread IV: [Citation Needed]

    Quote Originally Posted by AuthorGirl View Post
    Spoiler: Confusions about orientation
    Show
    I stopped assuming I was heterosexual at approximately the same moment I found out there were other sexual orientations. The assumption kinda crept back through the following steps:

    0. (No, having a Step #0 does not make any sense, but in this case it sort of does. Step #0 was the basic setup.)

    This is all I was told about LGBTAI+ stuff: "Some men like other men. The word for that is homosexual. Some people don't like it but it's an okay thing."

    . . . effort was made?

    I absorbed more information over time.

    1. My "sex education class" which was basically The Talk but scarier and from my grandmother. "AuthorGirl, if you kiss boys - and G, if you kiss girls - we won't be able to take you anywhere because you will have inappropriate behaviour." (G being my brother.)

    2. Falling for a boy. Usually a pretty strong indicator that a girl is straight, right?

    ---

    Then I had an ambiguous feeling or two about female acquaintances. Those feelings were thoroughly blocked out because they were very inappropriate.

    ---

    Then I had some rather unambiguous feelings about fictional female characters. I guess that makes sense - no guilt, no habit of thinking "we're just friends and what else would we be?"

    By this point, it's seeming quite obvious that I am attracted to girls.

    ---

    Here's the thing. In real life, most people are generic PeopleTM who do not make me feel anything whatsoever beyond vague intellectual interest / friendship and loyalty if those feelings have had time to grow. I'm guessing that's pretty normal?

    That's even more true when it comes to boys. It's very, very rare that I'll feel any "fluttery feelings" towards boys; there have been precisely two exceptions.

    Girls (that is, the ones I don't actually know and can't get particularly confused or guilty about) have lately caused "fluttery feelings" with embarrassing frequency.

    If a girl were to flirt with me, I'd probably be extremely confused but basically happy with that turn of events. When boys flirt with me, I feel . . . it's hard to describe. Something close to threatened. Again, there have been two exceptions.

    ---

    Here endeth the ramble. I guess my question is, am I bisexual or what?
    Spoiler: re: Confusions about orientation
    Show
    Ooh! For whatever it's worth, your inclinations sound extremely similar to mine, and I generally personally identify as bi (well, as a short answer, anyway).

    Out of curiosity, have you looked into the term 'demisexual'? For me personally at least, it was a really useful word for describing my (to hear my friends tell it) bizarrely few experiences with being attracted to guys, including the complete 100% lack of 'fluttery feelings' I'd have when looking at apparently cute actors and singers and classmates/coworkers and so on. The best I could ever seem to manage was finding a guy 'fatherly' or 'brotherly', and even that didn't come to me super easily. So I was honestly pretty surprised when I suddenly started developing feelings for a guy-friend, very late in high school-- by that point, I'd only ever had mini-crushes on various girls for the past four or five years. And it's not like that experience of being attracted to that guyfriend (and even having a short relationship with him) opened the floodgates to me being boy-crazy or anything. Anyway, since our inclinations seem kind of similar, maybe that's a term to take a look at, or at least a good starting point?

    And I can say that at least in my case, my inclinations definitely don't apply evenly to both sides of the spectrum. For me, as far as guys are concerned, I'm demisexual. In my entire life, I've only ever been even remotely attracted to a grand total of four guys, and all of them were good friends first. But on the flipside, as far as girls are concerned, I'm allosexual. And so overall for me, it's easiest to simplify all that and say I'm bisexual and call it a day (but then again, I don't really need to be precise anymore, as I'm long since happily married ).

    Anyway, labels can be good ways of exploring and thinking about oneself, but don't feel compelled to wear one if it seems 'off' to you. Labels shouldn't be limits. On the other hand, it can be comforting and kind of fun to go on a journey of learning new terms and realizing that you have things in common with others. Most importantly, enjoy who you are-- whatever you end up calling it!
    “Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgement that something else is more important than fear.”
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  27. - Top - End - #57
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    Default Re: LGBTAI+ Question and Discussion Thread IV: [Citation Needed]

    @AuthorGirl:

    In a sense, I guess we all are at least "Bi". How else would we be able to gouge the attractiveness of us to our target group as well as our rivals for exactly that group?
    As more or less your classical CIS hetero male, how else should I gouge how attractive another male is to a female other than feeling attracted to him and possibly being sexually aroused?

  28. - Top - End - #58
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    Default Re: LGBTAI+ Question and Discussion Thread IV: [Citation Needed]

    A million thank-yous for the feedback. It really helps.

    @Lettuce: thank you for the terms. They seem to fit - and even if they don't, this is quite fascinating. So many different ways people feel.

    Anyway, I guess time will tell.

  29. - Top - End - #59
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    Default Re: LGBTAI+ Question and Discussion Thread IV: [Citation Needed]

    This came up for me a while ago and the investigations I made were from a fairly small pool of relevant people. Since Certain Organisations in Australia have starting throwing trans people under the bus in the name of their cause, it's going to be relevant to my language use again, so I figure it's worth asking again with a bigger pool from more places.

    Is there any sort of consensus on best terminology to use when talking about trans...ness as a concept or state? Not about trans people, but about transness itself or as a field or... whatever. You get the idea.
    Transsexality is what I default to, but is what I was criticised for (with no useful alternative for what I was actually saying offered). Is it generally okay when referring to the general concept, or should I change my default? (I'm aware, or it is my understanding, that referring to people as "transsexual" seems to be currently in a state of flux with regards to appropriateness, and that while some seem to accept or prefer it, it tends to be safest to use transgender, trans, etc)
    Transgenderism seems to be the alternative, but that feels... wrong. Like it's an ideology or a type of discrimination. Or is that my own hangup, no one else's?
    Last edited by Serpentine; 2017-10-01 at 03:44 AM.

  30. - Top - End - #60
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    Default Re: LGBTAI+ Question and Discussion Thread IV: [Citation Needed]

    I honestly use transness myself cause I can't think of a better term either.
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