New OOTS products from CafePress
New OOTS t-shirts, ornaments, mugs, bags, and more
Page 5 of 8 FirstFirst 12345678 LastLast
Results 121 to 150 of 231
  1. - Top - End - #121
    Troll in the Playground
     
    MonkGuy

    Join Date
    Mar 2016

    Default Re: Villainous Competition XX​III: Two Heads Are Better Than One

    Cephalization from wikipedia:
    Cephalization is considered an evolutionary trend,[1] whereby nervous tissue, over many generations, becomes concentrated toward one end of an organism. This process eventually produces a head region with sensory organs.
    region = doesn't have to be a separate part from the main-body.


    @ Marriam-Webster:
    anterior region = front region, and the central eye + mouth are the front region.

    @ Oxfort:
    talks also about the front parts of animals. Further "typically separated from the rest of the body by a neck" means also, that there can be untypical heads, thus this is not a strict requirement. typically != always


    Sry, but I still fail to see any real evidence.

  2. - Top - End - #122
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    GrayDeath's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    In the Heart of Europe
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Villainous Competition XX​III: Two Heads Are Better Than One

    Is it that hard to have one competition without people arguing about (in this case not even participating) rule decisions that would fall to the judges or the Chairs purview any way?
    Last edited by GrayDeath; 2017-09-29 at 09:59 AM.
    A neutron walks into a bar and says, “How much for a beer?” The bartender says, “For you? No charge.”

    01010100011011110010000001100010011001010010000001 10111101110010001000000110111001101111011101000010 00000111010001101111001000000110001001100101001011 100010111000101110

    Later: An atom walks into a bar an asks the bartender “Have you seen an electron? I left it in here last night.” The bartender says, “Are you sure?” The atom says, “I’m positive.”

  3. - Top - End - #123
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Goblin

    Join Date
    May 2016

    Default Re: Villainous Competition XX​III: Two Heads Are Better Than One

    Quote Originally Posted by TwoLegsArmchair View Post
    It is following the rules strictly. What the rule says is that a creature must have a discernible head to qualify for the template. A beholder does not have a discernible head. It's as simple as that. It doesn't matter how abnormal a creature's body plan is, the only issue is whether or not it has a head.
    Okay, I'm a professional biologist, and I've taught invertebrate anatomy twice at the college level (I've dissected a couple dozen squid, and hundreds of insects and spiders). I want you to know that anatomy is not the black-and-white picture you're painting. Here is my input on the discussion regarding anatomy:

    • "Cephalization" does not mean you have head: it means you have a distinct front and back end, with brain tissue focused towards the front end. If cephalization is the key word for the Multi-Headed template, then a beholder clearly qualifies (look at the anatomy diagram from Lords of Madness), as does a maggot, a slug and a nematode worm.
    • Does a squid have a discernible head? I'd say "yes." However, using technical anatomical terminology, there doesn't seem to be a discernible "body": the mantle is not the body, but just the fleshy "cloak" that surrounds it. As far as I can determine, malacologists do not use any specific terminology for the squid's "body" region, and laypersons often inaccurately equate the mantle with the body. But, the head is just the capsule where the eyes, mouth and brain are. Curiously, the arms and tentacles are the squid's "foot," and they are not considered part of its head, so using strict, biological terminology for your D&D game, you would have to conclude that a squid with the Multi-Headed template would not get extra Arms or Tentacle attacks. Of course, since the "head" is wedged in the middle of the squid body plan, I'm not exactly sure where the extra head would grow, and might be inclined to reject a Multi-Headed squid as a valid build.
    • Does a monstrous spider have a discernible head? Well, one of the defining characteristics of an arachnid is that the head and thorax are fused into one body region, called the "cephalothorax," so the answer seems to be "no." Then again, as a trained arachnologist, I can discern where the spider's "cephalic region" (i.e, head) is, and can use features of the cephalic region to identify some spiders to species. So, maybe the answer is actually "yes." Personally, I would lean towards "no" on this one for pragmatic reasons, but since y'all seem adamant on using technical, scientific definitions for things, perhaps you should also use the expertise of a scientist when deciding whether or not something can be "discerned."
    • Does a centipede have a discernible head? That answer is, most assuredly, "yes." Curious fact, though: the centipede's "fangs" are actually not on its head: they're modified legs that grow on the first body segment behind the head. So, using strict biological terminology for your D&D game would lead you to conclude that a Multi-Headed centipede should not gain a second Bite attack, and a Tauric centipede should be allowed to keep its Bite attack. However, it seems that the designers were not particularly concerned about faithfully representing centipede anatomy when they wrote those templates, so the exact reverse of a proper biological understanding of centipedes is upheld by those templates.
    • How about a shark? Or other fish? Anatomically, a fish has a head. Clearly. However, there is no neck, and the head actually kind of blends into the body. So, functionally speaking, it's not all that different from a spider's cephalothorax, and in overall appearance, a fish is really not that different from a beholder, either: a single, uncontoured body with a face and brain on one end. So, I think drawing a line between the two is a pretty arbitrary decision.
    • To me, a beholder has a discernible "head," but I would not consider the eyestalks to be on the "head." So, a two-headed beholder, in my mind, would most appropriately be constructed as a beholder with a face on each end (or two faces, side by side), which consequently has two bite attacks and two anti-magic cones, but the normal number of eye rays. Clearly, Thurbane thought differently, and that's okay with me: either one would have been a valid entry into this contest, in my opinion. That's not to say I would have scored them highly, were I a judge; but I do think such entries should have been allowed.


    To try to make this into a technical discussion about what is and isn't a head is a fool's errand. Anyone can make an argument based on whatever principle they want, and you're deluding yourself if you think there are simple, definitive, black-and-white solutions to things like this, even in appeals to technical, rigid, scientific discourse on the matter.

    I think the proper way to handle a contest like this is to err on the side of inclusivity. We don't need a priori rulings on what poorly-worded or ambiguous template prereqs mean: we have judges who are specifically asked to rate things like "creativity" and "build elegance." Let them be the arbiters of what does and doesn't fit the spirit of the competition, because that's precisely the job description of a contest judge.

    If someone had tried to enter a gibbering mouther, arguing that it has multiple heads, I say the way to handle this would not be to argue with the entrant about the definition of "head," but to just allow the entry, and see what the judges say. Chances are, the entry would not have scored well, because while some judges might have thought it was a creative take on the theme, most would probably regard it as "inelegant" (at least) or cheeky. And that's okay: that is, after all, exactly what the judges are there for. Then again, somebody might have come up with a really interesting way to build a gibbering mouther around a multi-headed theme, so rejecting it outright would be a travesty, in my opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by TwoLegsArmchair View Post
    And I don't see how your forum rank should come into this at all. I'm a Halfling, after all.
    It's just a nervous habit: I worry too much about people taking me too seriously.
    Last edited by Blue Jay; 2017-09-29 at 10:48 AM.

  4. - Top - End - #124
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Thurbane's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Terra Australis
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Villainous Competition XX​III: Two Heads Are Better Than One

    Quote Originally Posted by GrayDeath View Post
    Is it that hard to have one competition without people arguing about (in this case not even participating) rule decisions that would fall to the judges or the Chairs purview any way?
    I agree that this is starting to be a massive derail, especially considering no such entry was made in the competition.

  5. - Top - End - #125
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    The Viscount's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2012

    Default Re: Villainous Competition XX​III: Two Heads Are Better Than One

    Agreed. More energy should be devoted to appreciation of these builds. I'm getting the chance to read them in detail now, and it's an excellent round. If I do poorly here I will not be disappointed.
    Kolyarut Avatar by Potatocubed.
    Quote Originally Posted by willpell View Post
    Only playing Tier 1s is like only eating in five-star restaurants [...] sometimes I just want a cheeseburger and some frogurt. Why limit yourself?
    Awards

  6. - Top - End - #126
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    PirateCaptain

    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    material & internet plane
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Villainous Competition XX​III: Two Heads Are Better Than One

    On a positive note, that's one heck of an informative post, Blue Jay! It's amazing how much stuff I learn from the playground members from different fields.
    Quote Originally Posted by MERC_1 View Post
    I find it very amusing that a very theoretical discussion of how to Optimize Bardic Music, turns into a discussion on how much worms you can eat in 7 minutes.

  7. - Top - End - #127
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Thurbane's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Terra Australis
    Gender
    Male

    biggrin Re: Villainous Competition XX​III: Two Heads Are Better Than One

    Saw these images in my Facebook feed today (Stan Winston School of Character Arts)...Half-Farspawn Multiheaded Were-Dire Boar Forest Giant maybe?

    Spoiler: Large Images
    Show

  8. - Top - End - #128
    Titan in the Playground
     
    danielxcutter's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Seoul
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Villainous Competition XX​III: Two Heads Are Better Than One

    ...the heck? O_O

    Looks like the Big Bad Wolf miiiiiiight be in a sticky situation.
    Cool elan Illithid Slayer by linkele.

    Editor/co-writer of Magicae Est Potestas, a crossover between Artemis Fowl and Undertale. Ao3 FanFiction.net DeviantArt
    We also have a TvTropes page!

    Currently playing: Red Hand of Doom(campaign journal) Campaign still going on, but journal discontinued until further notice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Squire Doodad View Post
    I could write a lengthy explanation, but honestly just what danielxcutter said.
    Extended sig here.

  9. - Top - End - #129
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    The Viscount's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2012

    Default Re: Villainous Competition XX​III: Two Heads Are Better Than One

    That's a great picture. I think I'd go 3 half-farspawn anthropomorphic pigs using Fusion and expansion.

    Reminds me a lot of Bi-Beast
    Spoiler
    Show


    or
    Maash
    Spoiler
    Show

    Fun fact: only 2 of his heads are evil.
    Kolyarut Avatar by Potatocubed.
    Quote Originally Posted by willpell View Post
    Only playing Tier 1s is like only eating in five-star restaurants [...] sometimes I just want a cheeseburger and some frogurt. Why limit yourself?
    Awards

  10. - Top - End - #130
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    remetagross's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    Paris
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Villainous Competition XX​III: Two Heads Are Better Than One

    Some Gazebo Jones-level of wtf entries, this round! Congrats, all :D

    I was aiming for a Sharn follower of Demogorgon, that would have ripped off one of its own heads to more resemble its two-headed patron. I would have then advanced it to CR 10 and slapped all 10 levels of Thrall of Demogorgon. The trick would have been the fact that Aberration CR increases by 1 for every 4 HDs adding, but Sharns are natural Sorcerer 7/Cleric 5 casters with two standard actions per round, that gain one sorcerer or cleric caster level for each HD they gain. As a result, for the cosr of CR +2 the Sharn would have gained 8 sorcerer levels, and then spammed Polymorph Any Object to turn everything into a two-headed monster of the same type (for the permanent duration) and then diplomancing it for the greater glory of Demogorgon.
    VC XV, The horsemen are drawing nearer: The Alien and the Omen (part 1 and part 2).
    VC XVI, Burn baby burn:Nero
    VC XVIII, This is Heresy! Torquemada
    VC XX, Elder Evil: Henry Bowyer

    And a repository of deliciously absurd sentences produced by maddened optimisers in my extended signature

  11. - Top - End - #131
    Troll in the Playground
    Join Date
    Feb 2013

    Default Re: Villainous Competition XX​III: Two Heads Are Better Than One

    I was pondering an advanced two headed spell warped blink dog called Hound of Demikhov, but that seemed too morbid.
    Last edited by ZamielVanWeber; 2017-09-30 at 01:45 PM.

  12. - Top - End - #132
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Thurbane's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Terra Australis
    Gender
    Male

    Question Re: Villainous Competition XX​III: Two Heads Are Better Than One

    So...we have two potential judges?

  13. - Top - End - #133
    Troll in the Playground
    Join Date
    Feb 2013

    Default Re: Villainous Competition XX​III: Two Heads Are Better Than One

    I have been reviewing the entries, fear not. There was just a lot more to moving than I thought.

  14. - Top - End - #134
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Thurbane's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Terra Australis
    Gender
    Male

    frown Re: Villainous Competition XX​III: Two Heads Are Better Than One

    Quote Originally Posted by ZamielVanWeber View Post
    I have been reviewing the entries, fear not. There was just a lot more to moving than I thought.
    I hear you - always an exasperating process in my experience...

  15. - Top - End - #135
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    GrayDeath's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    In the Heart of Europe
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Villainous Competition XX​III: Two Heads Are Better Than One

    Job Trouble came up.
    Should be settled by wednesday, which is when I`ll begin serious judging (as opposed to skimming over the entries and looking for obvious stuff^^).
    A neutron walks into a bar and says, “How much for a beer?” The bartender says, “For you? No charge.”

    01010100011011110010000001100010011001010010000001 10111101110010001000000110111001101111011101000010 00000111010001101111001000000110001001100101001011 100010111000101110

    Later: An atom walks into a bar an asks the bartender “Have you seen an electron? I left it in here last night.” The bartender says, “Are you sure?” The atom says, “I’m positive.”

  16. - Top - End - #136
    Nerdomancer in the Playground Moderator
     
    DruidGuy

    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    Colorado, USA
    Gender
    Male

    Question Re: Villainous Competition XX​III: Two Heads Are Better Than One

    is there an idiots guide to VC for someone w/ no exp building monsters? Just in case someone had any kind of idea or wanted to attempt a build in the future...

    How is CR calculated, especially when you're making something, not just starting off w/ a base thing and adding class lvls to it?
    Spoiler: Medals & Current Characters
    Show

    Quote Originally Posted by Nifft View Post
    More sources, more choices, more power. Welcome to D&D.
    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee
    I mean, I have been assuming Jdizzlean looks like Nathan Fillion this whole time to start with...
    The Mod Life Crisis If you need me to address a thread as a Moderator, please include a link

  17. - Top - End - #137
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Seto's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Paris, France
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Villainous Competition XX​III: Two Heads Are Better Than One

    Quote Originally Posted by jdizzlean View Post
    is there an idiots guide to VC for someone w/ no exp building monsters? Just in case someone had any kind of idea or wanted to attempt a build in the future...

    How is CR calculated, especially when you're making something, not just starting off w/ a base thing and adding class lvls to it?
    If that's what you mean, homebrew is not allowed (except in specific cases like the Elder Evils)... so it seems to me than in any case, you'll start off with a base thing.
    Avatar by Mr_Saturn
    ______________________
    • Kids, watch Buffy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bard1cKnowledge
    Charisma, it makes the difference between "Oh hey, it's this guy!" And "oh hey it's this guy."
    My True Neutral Handbook, a resource for creating and playing TN characters.

    Check out my extended signature and the "Gitp regulars as..." that I've been honored with!

  18. - Top - End - #138
    Nerdomancer in the Playground Moderator
     
    DruidGuy

    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    Colorado, USA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Villainous Competition XX​III: Two Heads Are Better Than One

    i meant more if you're adding templates, do the crs automatically go up? what if it's a LA +0 template? what if it has no CR listed (does that exist?)

    if i'm just taking something out of a MM or another book and adding class levels to it, that doesn't seem as hard, except i'd want to build it as a PC (that's my xp) which might make it unkillable? (one can hope right?)
    Spoiler: Medals & Current Characters
    Show

    Quote Originally Posted by Nifft View Post
    More sources, more choices, more power. Welcome to D&D.
    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee
    I mean, I have been assuming Jdizzlean looks like Nathan Fillion this whole time to start with...
    The Mod Life Crisis If you need me to address a thread as a Moderator, please include a link

  19. - Top - End - #139
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Venger's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Texas
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Villainous Competition XX​III: Two Heads Are Better Than One

    Quote Originally Posted by jdizzlean View Post
    is there an idiots guide to VC for someone w/ no exp building monsters? Just in case someone had any kind of idea or wanted to attempt a build in the future...

    How is CR calculated, especially when you're making something, not just starting off w/ a base thing and adding class lvls to it?
    start here and it'll cover the basics of building a monster either with or without class levels

    cr is calculated by taking the base cr of the creature (which is listed) and then adding 1 for each class level you take, and then the relevant amount for any templates (if any) you apply, which are listed in the template entry.

    you are not allowed to make up your own monsters. you have to use printed ones from the acceptable sources spelled out in the op

    Quote Originally Posted by jdizzlean View Post
    i meant more if you're adding templates, do the crs automatically go up? what if it's a LA +0 template? what if it has no CR listed (does that exist?)

    if i'm just taking something out of a MM or another book and adding class levels to it, that doesn't seem as hard, except i'd want to build it as a PC (that's my xp) which might make it unkillable? (one can hope right?)
    it depends on the template. LA is not relevant. vc is tabulated by cr, so check that. no, it's not.

    taking a monster and adding class levels is pretty much the whole thing. don't strive solely for unkillability. there are many ways, and they're not in and of themselves a recipe for a good score. not to stormwind or imply a weak entry automatically scores well, but just do something you enjoy, and you'll probably do fine.
    I've got a new fantasy TTRPG about running your own fencing school in a 3 musketeers pastiche setting. Book coming soon.

    Check out my NEW sci-fi TTRPG about first contact. Cool alien races, murderous AIs, and more. New expansion featuring rules for ships! New book here NOW!

    Quote Originally Posted by weckar View Post
    Venger, can you be my full-time memory aid please?
    Iron Chef Medals!
    Amazing Princess Mononoke avatar by Dispozition

  20. - Top - End - #140
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Deadline's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Necro-equestrian Pugilism
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Villainous Competition XX​III: Two Heads Are Better Than One

    Quote Originally Posted by jdizzlean View Post
    i meant more if you're adding templates, do the crs automatically go up? what if it's a LA +0 template? what if it has no CR listed (does that exist?)

    if i'm just taking something out of a MM or another book and adding class levels to it, that doesn't seem as hard, except i'd want to build it as a PC (that's my xp) which might make it unkillable? (one can hope right?)
    Templates list what their CR adjustment is.

    There are a couple of things that can trip folks up with regards to the VC competition. Both rules are found in the Monster Manual.

    The first is how adding class levels affect CR. Class levels are considered either "Associated" or "Non-Associated". Associated class levels add to CR on a 1 for 1 basis (every Associated class level adds +1 CR). Non-Associated class levels add to CR on a 2 for 1 basis (every 2 Non-Associated class levels add +1 CR). For this competition, all classes are considered Associated (as per the OP).

    The second is how adding advancing Monster by HD works (and affects CR). This is best covered in the back of the Monster Manual (under the Improving Monsters section). But it boils down to different creature types have different amounts of HD they can advance per +1 CR increase.

    Important to note, LA has nothing to do with this competition.

    Edit - And Venger swoops in with a link to Ur-Priest's Monster handbook!
    Last edited by Deadline; 2017-10-02 at 04:52 PM.
    Awesome avatar by Iron Penguin!

    Signature of Holding

  21. - Top - End - #141
    Nerdomancer in the Playground Moderator
     
    DruidGuy

    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    Colorado, USA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Villainous Competition XX​III: Two Heads Are Better Than One

    holee crap, that is a lot to read. I'll get right on that, thanks
    Spoiler: Medals & Current Characters
    Show

    Quote Originally Posted by Nifft View Post
    More sources, more choices, more power. Welcome to D&D.
    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee
    I mean, I have been assuming Jdizzlean looks like Nathan Fillion this whole time to start with...
    The Mod Life Crisis If you need me to address a thread as a Moderator, please include a link

  22. - Top - End - #142
    Nerdomancer in the Playground Moderator
     
    DruidGuy

    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    Colorado, USA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Villainous Competition XX​III: Two Heads Are Better Than One

    ok, to clarify:

    for base stats, you take the elite array, and then take the stats in the book and either subtract 10 or 11 depending on odd or even and add that number to the array number to find the actual stat for the entry at whatever it's base CR is, right?
    Spoiler: Medals & Current Characters
    Show

    Quote Originally Posted by Nifft View Post
    More sources, more choices, more power. Welcome to D&D.
    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee
    I mean, I have been assuming Jdizzlean looks like Nathan Fillion this whole time to start with...
    The Mod Life Crisis If you need me to address a thread as a Moderator, please include a link

  23. - Top - End - #143
    Troll in the Playground
     
    RogueGuy

    Join Date
    Aug 2014

    Default Re: Villainous Competition XX​III: Two Heads Are Better Than One

    Quote Originally Posted by jdizzlean View Post
    ok, to clarify:

    for base stats, you take the elite array, and then take the stats in the book and either subtract 10 or 11 depending on odd or even and add that number to the array number to find the actual stat for the entry at whatever it's base CR is, right?
    that is correct

  24. - Top - End - #144
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Venger's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Texas
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Villainous Competition XX​III: Two Heads Are Better Than One

    Quote Originally Posted by jdizzlean View Post
    ok, to clarify:

    for base stats, you take the elite array, and then take the stats in the book and either subtract 10 or 11 depending on odd or even and add that number to the array number to find the actual stat for the entry at whatever it's base CR is, right?
    just to be clear:

    ability mods are always even, so if it's even, you subtract 10, and if it's odd, you subtract 11.
    I've got a new fantasy TTRPG about running your own fencing school in a 3 musketeers pastiche setting. Book coming soon.

    Check out my NEW sci-fi TTRPG about first contact. Cool alien races, murderous AIs, and more. New expansion featuring rules for ships! New book here NOW!

    Quote Originally Posted by weckar View Post
    Venger, can you be my full-time memory aid please?
    Iron Chef Medals!
    Amazing Princess Mononoke avatar by Dispozition

  25. - Top - End - #145
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Thurbane's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Terra Australis
    Gender
    Male

    Post Re: Villainous Competition XX​III: Two Heads Are Better Than One

    Maybe we should do a hypothetical basic entry (for no particular competition): Let's say it's a Half-Fiend Ettercap Cleric. We'll call him Ernie.

    Stats

    Ettercap stats are as follows: Str 14, Dex 17, Con 13, Int 6, Wis 15, Cha 8; that translates to ability mods of Str +4, Dex +6, Con +2, Int -4, Wis +4, Cha -2

    Half-fiend stat modifiers are: Str +4, Dex +4, Con +2, Int +4, Cha +2

    Ernie's total ability mods are Str +8 (+4/+4), Dex +10 (+6/+4), Con +4 (+2/+2), Int +0 (-4/+4), Wis +4, Cha +0

    Next, well assign his array: Str 13 (+8), Dex 8 (+10), Con 14 (+4), Int 10, Wis 15 (+4), Cha 12.

    Since he starts play with 5RHD, he gets ability bonuses a 8HD, 12 HD and 16HD. Let's put them all in Wisdom.

    Ernie's final stats are: Str 21, Dex 18, Con 18, Int 10, Wis 22, Cha 12.

    CR

    CR is a little tricky, as Half-fiend CR increases as you gain HD.

    Ernie would start out at CR 5 (3 for Ettercap, +2 for Half fiend); once he gets to 11HD (i.e. Cleric 6), the CR increase for Half-fiend jumps to CR +3.

    His build table would look something like this:

    CR Class Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Skills Feats Class Features
    5 Outsider 1 +x +x +x +x 36 Great Fortitude* Ettercap + half-fiend abilities
    5 Outsider 2 +x +x +x +x 9
    5 Outsider 3 +x +x +x +x 9 Multiattack*
    5 Outsider 4 +x +x +x +x 9
    5 Outsider 5 +x +x +x +x 9
    6 Cleric 1 +x +x +x +x 3 6th level feat choice Turn or rebuke undead
    7 Cleric 2 +x +x +x +x 3
    8 Cleric 3 +x +x +x +x 3
    9 Cleric 4 +x +x +x +x 3 9th level feat choice
    10 Cleric 5 +x +x +x +x 3
    12 Cleric 6 +x +x +x +x 3
    13 Cleric 7 +x +x +x +x 3 12th level feat choice
    14 Cleric 8 +x +x +x +x 3
    15 Cleric 9 +x +x +x +x 3
    16 Cleric 10 +x +x +x +x 3 15th level feat choice
    17 Cleric 11 +x +x +x +x 3
    18 Cleric 12 +x +x +x +x 3
    19 Cleric 13 +x +x +x +x 3 18th level feat choice
    20 Cleric 14 +x +x +x +x 3

    ...if I get time later I might fill in the blanks.

    Hope this helps?

  26. - Top - End - #146
    Nerdomancer in the Playground Moderator
     
    DruidGuy

    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    Colorado, USA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Villainous Competition XX​III: Two Heads Are Better Than One

    its past my bedtime, i'll look it over in depth tmw and post any q's. I'm only i think 1/2 way thru that guide anyways
    Spoiler: Medals & Current Characters
    Show

    Quote Originally Posted by Nifft View Post
    More sources, more choices, more power. Welcome to D&D.
    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee
    I mean, I have been assuming Jdizzlean looks like Nathan Fillion this whole time to start with...
    The Mod Life Crisis If you need me to address a thread as a Moderator, please include a link

  27. - Top - End - #147
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Goblin

    Join Date
    May 2016

    Default Re: Villainous Competition XX​III: Two Heads Are Better Than One

    Quote Originally Posted by Thurbane View Post
    CR

    CR is a little tricky, as Half-fiend CR increases as you gain HD.

    Ernie would start out at CR 5 (3 for Ettercap, +2 for Half fiend); once he gets to 11HD (i.e. Cleric 6), the CR increase for Half-fiend jumps to CR +3.
    Maybe this is another tangent, but are you sure the Half-Fiend template works this way? Usually, template abilities don't scale with class levels. For example, the Book of Exalted Deeds discusses on p. 27 how to modify the LA of the Half-Celestial template based on the creature's racial HD, and it seems to assume that there is no scaling of the template's abilities beyond what you start with: so a base-race creature gets a static LA +2 for Half-Celestial.
    Last edited by Blue Jay; 2017-10-03 at 12:22 AM.

  28. - Top - End - #148
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    NontheistCleric's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2017

    Default Re: Villainous Competition XX​III: Two Heads Are Better Than One

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Jay View Post
    Maybe this is another tangent, but are you sure the Half-Fiend template works this way? Usually, template abilities don't scale with class levels. For example, the Book of Exalted Deeds discusses on p. 27 how to modify the LA of the Half-Celestial template based on the creature's racial HD, and it seems to assume that there is no scaling of the template's abilities beyond what you start with: so a base-race creature gets a static LA +2 for Half-Celestial.
    Well, it's pretty clear, looking at both the Half-Fiend and Half-Celestial templates, that the abilities are meant to scale, since they all mention HD instead of RHD. And even then, it's not like it's impossible to increase RHD, either.

    Leaving aside the fact that LA doesn't matter in this competition anyway, it's quite likely the BoED writers simply messed up, as it was written quite early in 3.5's history and we all know that the designers didn't have a great grasp of their own system back then. Information on the Half-Celestial template should default back to whatever the Monster Manual has on it anyway, as it is the primary source.

  29. - Top - End - #149
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Venger's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Texas
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Villainous Competition XX​III: Two Heads Are Better Than One

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Jay View Post
    Maybe this is another tangent, but are you sure the Half-Fiend template works this way? Usually, template abilities don't scale with class levels. For example, the Book of Exalted Deeds discusses on p. 27 how to modify the LA of the Half-Celestial template based on the creature's racial HD, and it seems to assume that there is no scaling of the template's abilities beyond what you start with: so a base-race creature gets a static LA +2 for Half-Celestial.
    Thurbane's chart is correct.

    Half-fiend is different from half-celestial, and la is not the same thing as CR, which is what vc is run on.
    I've got a new fantasy TTRPG about running your own fencing school in a 3 musketeers pastiche setting. Book coming soon.

    Check out my NEW sci-fi TTRPG about first contact. Cool alien races, murderous AIs, and more. New expansion featuring rules for ships! New book here NOW!

    Quote Originally Posted by weckar View Post
    Venger, can you be my full-time memory aid please?
    Iron Chef Medals!
    Amazing Princess Mononoke avatar by Dispozition

  30. - Top - End - #150
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Thurbane's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Terra Australis
    Gender
    Male

    Question Re: Villainous Competition XX​III: Two Heads Are Better Than One

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Jay View Post
    Maybe this is another tangent, but are you sure the Half-Fiend template works this way? Usually, template abilities don't scale with class levels. For example, the Book of Exalted Deeds discusses on p. 27 how to modify the LA of the Half-Celestial template based on the creature's racial HD, and it seems to assume that there is no scaling of the template's abilities beyond what you start with: so a base-race creature gets a static LA +2 for Half-Celestial.
    Not sure what BoED has to say, just going by my reading of the SRD:

    Quote Originally Posted by SRD Half-Fiend
    Challenge Rating
    HD 4 or less, as base creature +1; HD 5 to 10, as base creature +2; HD 11 or more, as base creature +3.
    AFAIK, the template checks total HD, not purely racial. If there's a specific rule about this somewhere, it would change my understanding of how it all works...

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •