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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    RedWizardGuy

    Join Date
    Sep 2017

    Lightbulb An Arcanist's School Understanding + VMC Wizard

    As far as I can tell, RAW this works:

    Build an Arcanist VMC Wizard, take the school understanding exploit.

    VMC Wizard reads as follows:

    At 1st level, he chooses a school of magic in which to specialize. For all powers of that school, he treats his character level as his effective wizard level.
    While the School Understanding Exploit says:

    If the arcanist already has an arcane school (or gains one later), taking this exploit instead allows her arcanist levels to stack with the levels of the class that granted the arcane school when determining the powers and abilities of her arcane school.
    Since we're picking a wizard school at first level, I'm reading that as we have an arcane school that will interact with School Understanding. Therefore, we get an Arcane School along with all of the powers at the level a Wizard would normally get them, and no opposition schools. Does this seem kosher?

    (Also IMO this works with the flavor of an Arcanist, cause they're all about bending the rules of magic in their favor. And we're giving up 4 feats and an exploit slot for an arcane school, so it feels balanced enough to me.)

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    WolfInSheepsClothing

    Join Date
    Nov 2009

    Default Re: An Arcanist's School Understanding + VMC Wizard

    By RAW, I would say that "levels of the class that granted the arcane school" would refer to Wizard, which is your VMC choice, but since you don't actually have Wizard levels and the VMC feature states you use character level, not class level, you still have zero levels in a "class" that grants you an arcane school. Unfortunately the School Understanding Exploit doesn't say it stacks with any character levels that grant the arcane school, only class levels that grant the arcane school, so it looks like this would be a no go and you would either have to use character level or your arcanist class levels as the determining factor for your arcane school abilities.

    That said, one could say that if you only have one class, class level and character level are the same thing, but that may be a leap.

    Some will say, as I have read on this forum, that you could just play a Wizard and VMC as a Wizard as there are no rules specifically against it. But, as VMC is a variant of multiclassing, and the multiclassing rules state that you can choose a "new" class, meaning one you don't already have, I would say that was specific, but this may be interpreted by most as RAI because it isn't explicitly stated under the VMC rules.

    I, as a DM, would not allow this in either form, as I tend to work more along the lines of RAI, and I do not believe that the intention was to allow class ability and VMC shenanigans to double your arcane school progression, among other things.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

    Join Date
    Feb 2010

    Default Re: An Arcanist's School Understanding + VMC Wizard

    Quote Originally Posted by Dekion View Post
    Some will say, as I have read on this forum, that you could just play a Wizard and VMC as a Wizard as there are no rules specifically against it. But, as VMC is a variant of multiclassing, and the multiclassing rules state that you can choose a "new" class, meaning one you don't already have, I would say that was specific, but this may be interpreted by most as RAI because it isn't explicitly stated under the VMC rules.
    Hybrid classes don't bar you from multiclassing with their parent classes, they do heavily imply that you shouldn't since you may get overlapping abilities that won't stack. Also, the VMC rules advise you not to allow normal multiclassing while using them and that you can not VMC into a class you are already part of (No Wizard VMC Wizard, for example). It is a variant rule however, you are already into houserule area, so do what you want.

    I'd allow the Arcanist VMC Wizard but it would be redundant. All the powers you get from the VMC Wizard already use your character level to determine their power ("For all powers of that school, he treats his character level as his effective wizard level."), but not the level you get access to new powers. You get those at predetermined levels according to the VMC.
    Last edited by Eldonauran; 2017-09-08 at 12:54 PM.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Alabama
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: An Arcanist's School Understanding + VMC Wizard

    The real question here is if your Arcanist and Wizard levels stack for any purpose regarding VMC. I would argue yes since School Understanding calls out that they do, but RAI probably not intentionally

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Ettin in the Playground
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    Berlin
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: An Arcanist's School Understanding + VMC Wizard

    Nothing really stacks with VMC as that is an purely stand-alone system and not supported in any meaningful way.

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