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    Default Re: The Orville

    The Krill bear a heavy resemblance to the Jem'Hadar.

    And yeah, we knew most of the funny stuff was in the trailers. They said that right up front, weeks before the premiere.

    And yeah, "Happy Arbor Day" was inspired. And no, Commander Grayson's alternative was not better.
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    I had fun with this. The first episode was like a pastry with whipped sugar filling: light, tasty, not much there, but somehow you’ve gone and eaten the whole thing.

    I loved the visual plays on Star Trek iconography, most obviously the curved and stacked nacelles, but also the subtle nod to one of TNG’s foibles—the immense amounts of wasted space in the deck layout. The captain’s office took this and ran with it.

    And of course, the robot named Isaac. Wham! goes the reference-hammer.

    The one thing I didn’t like was the borderline crudity. References to balls, wood, etc. don’t improve the comedy or the drama; they’re not funny and they detract from the show’s attempts at serious moments.

    Apart from that…I enjoyed it. Half the fun is watching Adrienne Palicki, who was fantastic in Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D., where she also played the better half of a constantly bickering marriage.

    As for the various critics calling it terrible—well, did any of them actually watch the first season of TNG? O gawd, there was terribleness aplenty there…not least of which were the dread Ferengi, terrors of the spaceways, who turned out to be bat-faced goofballs.

    So, Orville is certainly no soul-searing apotheosis of transcendent art. But it was decently funny, endearingly silly, and they blew their science as well as Trek ever did.

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    Two very good things with the pilot episode. First, the ships and space scenes were beautifully shot, as opposed to the more workmanlike stuff we've gotten from the other two Star* series lately. And two, they show very effectively how insanely dangerous it is to mess about with time acceleration tech.

    Anyone else notice the small model of the Wright Flyer on the captain's desk?

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    I didn't expect to like this, and it's not a "must watch" for me, but I liked it more than I thought I would. I really like the relaxed Star Trek aesthetic, real people in a utopian world, and some good jokes came of that; but Seth MacFarlane's shtick is not knowing when he's reaching too far or digging a punchline too long, and that got in the way in quite a few bits. Still, some legitimate laughs. My favorite would just be that the engineering toolkit was a couple rolls of duct tape and a hot glue gun.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Palanan View Post
    As for the various critics calling it terrible—well, did any of them actually watch the first season of TNG? O gawd, there was terribleness aplenty there…not least of which were the dread Ferengi, terrors of the spaceways, who turned out to be bat-faced goofballs.
    The first season of a lot of sci fi shows seem to be like this. Somehow back in the day people accepted this and the shows continued and made some great episodes. Stargate SG-1 is in a similar boat to TNG in that regard (it went on for 10 seasons after its godawful season 1!). Nowadays though it seems that if the first season kinda sucks like this, you get cancelled right away. Unfortunate really.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chen View Post
    The first season of a lot of sci fi shows seem to be like this. Somehow back in the day people accepted this and the shows continued and made some great episodes. Stargate SG-1 is in a similar boat to TNG in that regard (it went on for 10 seasons after its godawful season 1!). Nowadays though it seems that if the first season kinda sucks like this, you get cancelled right away. Unfortunate really.
    It's not so much that people accepted it that the networks were happy to let these somewhat expensive genre shows run to a certain length to get their money back via syndication.

    Besides, Stargate first season wasn't that bad, it had pretty terrible episodes in it certainly but the characters and dialogue was still pretty notable.

    Anyways, I don't think critics should temper their criticism relative to the ignominy of TNG season one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitten Champion View Post
    It's not so much that people accepted it that the networks were happy to let these somewhat expensive genre shows run to a certain length to get their money back via syndication.

    Besides, Stargate first season wasn't that bad, it had pretty terrible episodes in it certainly but the characters and dialogue was still pretty notable.
    And those episodes that were pretty awful were pretty much only in the first few episodes. (That one with Carter and the not-Mongols being arguably the worse in the series and they got that out of their system in what, the third or forth episode of something?)



    Mind you, I think part of the effect is the proliferation on media in the years since. Even in the mid-90s, there wasn't so much competition for your veiwing, so you were more inclined to watch less-than-stellar if the alternative was "nowt." (E.g. TNG in the (in the UK) late eighties/early nineties. Now, TV has to not only compete with itself and the even more channels, it also has to compete with Youtube and whatnot.

    Heck, I VERY rarely watch any of the handful of shows I watch the time they air; it's usually far more conveniant to watch them on BBC iPlayer or catch-up. And I watch more Funny Internet Reviewers than I do actual telly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The New Bruceski View Post
    I didn't expect to like this, and it's not a "must watch" for me, but I liked it more than I thought I would. I really like the relaxed Star Trek aesthetic, real people in a utopian world, and some good jokes came of that; but Seth MacFarlane's shtick is not knowing when he's reaching too far or digging a punchline too long, and that got in the way in quite a few bits. Still, some legitimate laughs. My favorite would just be that the engineering toolkit was a couple rolls of duct tape and a hot glue gun.
    I will watch it again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Giggling Ghast View Post
    Honestly, I got a bad vibe off the trailer. Galaxy Quest did it better.
    No, Orville is better, Galaxy Quest was hopelrssly contrived

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bohandas View Post
    No, Orville is better, Galaxy Quest was hopelrssly contrived
    Wait, what? Galaxy Quest is one of the greatest sci-fi comedies out there.

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    Just caught the rest of the first episode on streaming. I don't know what the heck everyone's complaining about. Taken as a whole, the episode was WORLDS better than a lot of early Star Trek. It also isn't trying to be a comedy; it has a comic relief character in Gordon Malloy, but it isn't a sitcom IN SPAAAAACE by any stretch.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Friv View Post
    Wait, what? Galaxy Quest is one of the greatest sci-fi comedies out there.
    I am equally puzzled by 'hopeless'. How many comedies rely on hefty amounts of contrivance? Would half the genre be too conservative? Two thirds?
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    I think the issue some reviewers have is two-fold:

    A) It's fashionable to crap on Seth MacFarlane, so this had a bit of a tough road already.

    B) They were expecting Galaxy Quest: The Series and instead got ST:TOS with Some Jokes.

    Could be off, of course. But from what I understand it doesn't deserve the level of vitriol that was heaped on it.

    Of course, Galaxy Quest had a lot more drama in it than it's given credit for, so that might be coloring things a bit too. Still, Orville was sold a bit as a parody and from what I understand it really isn't. Or if it is a parody, it's far closer to the playing-it-straight line than GQ did.
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    I'm watching it now, so thoughts as i do:

    Spoiler
    Show

    Wow, dat opening. Seriously, not what i was expecting. I rather liked the office seen, the humor is a tad weird but they all seem like real people.

    I love the holodeck scene, wonderful reference to TNG. Also it feels like a program i would write.

    Ok, the shuttle scene was a tad forced, a tad, but those two do feel like they are playing actual old friends, which i rather like.

    First impression of the crew. I like them, they all seem interesting. For whatever reason Lemarr stands out, probably because he acts like a dude punching a clock lol

    Watching the Orville leave dock i realize that i rather like the design of the ship, it looks nice. The bridge is stupidly wide open but it looks good from the outside.

    His 1st oficer is his Ex Wife. oooh damn.

    I love the crew banter, it felt like an actual conversation i'd hear at work.

    That office needs better soundproofing

    I am loving Gordon and Lemarr, they feel like the two blue collar dudes in a room full of Managers.

    Oh my god the Ex Wife jokes lol

    I gotta say i like the Krill. They're an odd fusion of Romulans, Klingons and the Jem'Hadar.

    2 words: Seat Belts lol


    All it all the show feels ok. The reviews seem overly hysterical or just flat out wrong. Only a few jokes felt really off (the bathroom hallway joke was a big one) but all in all it felt like i was watching Star Trek Lower Deck the show.

    Quote Originally Posted by Porthos View Post
    I think the issue some reviewers have is two-fold:

    A) It's fashionable to crap on Seth MacFarlane, so this had a bit of a tough road already.

    B) They were expecting Galaxy Quest: The Series and instead got ST:TOS with Some Jokes.

    Could be off, of course. But from what I understand it doesn't deserve the level of vitriol that was heaped on it.

    Of course, Galaxy Quest had a lot more drama in it than it's given credit for, so that might be coloring things a bit too. Still, Orville was sold a bit as a parody and from what I understand it really isn't. Or if it is a parody, it's far closer to the playing-it-straight line than GQ did.
    They are playing it rather straight. I guess the parody aspect of the whole thing is that they aren't being so grandiose, they're just a bunch of people doing a job.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Porthos View Post
    I think the issue some reviewers have is two-fold:

    A) It's fashionable to crap on Seth MacFarlane, so this had a bit of a tough road already.
    An alternate explanation here is that Seth MacFarlane has produced a great deal of garbage and is thus disliked. Sometimes people dislike things not because it's fashionable to do so, but because the things are bad.

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    Well, I come from the perspective of having not seen a lot of MacFarlane's work. I don't watch a lot of mainstream broadcast TV, have never watched Family Guy on a regular basis or American Dad at all, and haven't watched any of his movies. (Supposing A Million Ways to Die in the West to be a better model was an educated guess based on it being a longer form live action thing, not having actually seen it.) So I didn't come into this with a hate-on for his previous work, and I find this one pretty good.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knaight View Post
    An alternate explanation here is that Seth MacFarlane has produced a great deal of garbage and is thus disliked. Sometimes people dislike things not because it's fashionable to do so, but because the things are bad.
    This can be true, but...

    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade Paladin View Post
    Well, I come from the perspective of having not seen a lot of MacFarlane's work. I don't watch a lot of mainstream broadcast TV, have never watched Family Guy on a regular basis or American Dad at all, and haven't watched any of his movies. (Supposing A Million Ways to Die in the West to be a better model was an educated guess based on it being a longer form live action thing, not having actually seen it.) So I didn't come into this with a hate-on for his previous work, and I find this one pretty good.
    ... so too can this.

    Remember, I didn't say it wasn't justified to crap on him. Just that the show had an uphill battle because for many a critic, whatever reservoir of good will MacFarlane had, it disappeared a long time ago.

    That being said, I think there is a subtle shade of difference between justified and fashionable. There are plenty of people out there who put out mediocre work. Slightly sub-standard, even. But for whatever reason some become lighting rods more than others.

    And I think MacFarlane is in the lightning rod category, myself. No matter how justified it may be.

    (And I say this as a person who is blissfully unaware of most of his work)

    ========

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackhawk748 View Post
    They are playing it rather straight. I guess the parody aspect of the whole thing is that they aren't being so grandiose, they're just a bunch of people doing a job.
    Would it be fair to call it a WorkCom in the tradition of Brooklyn Nine-Nine or Barney Miller then?

    (No, I am NOT saying it is as good as them. Just citing a couple of examples)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Porthos View Post
    Would it be fair to call it a WorkCom in the tradition of Brooklyn Nine-Nine or Barney Miller then?

    (No, I am NOT saying it is as good as them. Just citing a couple of examples)
    It might be, we'll see as time goes on, but as far as first impressions go it kinda seems that way. I mean, the first episode is literally just them doing a normal boring supply run and something goes sideways. On top of this they are on a fairly small and innocuous ship and none of them are famous (kinda) or distinguished people (well except the robot, but thats more cuz hes the only one in the Union). I think we have a ship of fairly Average Joes as far as starship crews go, and i think that may be why i liked it.
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    The problem is that Galaxy Quest was a movie "about a generic Star Trek esque tv show" and NOT that actual show HAVING a movie.

    Orville is doing Galaxy Quest without that layer of irony. It is doing "shlocky, kinda sexist, kinda jokey but not really" unironically, and that's where it fails as a comedy peace. The JOKE of Galaxy Quest its that the show was bad.


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    Quote Originally Posted by LaZodiac View Post
    The JOKE of Galaxy Quest its that the show was bad.
    Really? That's not the impression I got. Just the opposite, actually.

    Sure, the Galaxy Quest 'TV show' was goofy, a little silly, and a little nonsensical at times.

    ...

    Okay, a LOT nonsensical.

    But the takeaway I got from the film is that the TV show was ultimately inspirational. It was good. Not ironically good. Not "So Bad it's Good" good, but actually good. Warts and all it had charm and heart.

    That's why Galaxy Quest is called an affectionate parody of ST (and all the other SF shows). It might pull a Decon/Recon switch, in the words of TV Tropes, but it does seem to side on the argument that these shows should be celebrated. If improved.
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    I've noticed several people saying that they shouldn't be expecting a comedy from The Orville because they 'said it's not a comedy'.

    A large portion of their prospective audience knows nothing about the show but possibly a trailer. Having all of their advertising about the show painting it as a comedy, and then not delivering a comedy, is not a good way to establish a core audience for a show.

    This has happened too many times to count in movies. People expect a genre of movie based on advertising and trailers. When they go to the movie and that's not what was delivered, it won't matter if the movie was actually good or not - a good chunk of the audience didn't get what they expected going in, and the movie draw drops precipitously in just a couple weeks.

    I fully expect the same thing to happen here. The people who will actually watch and sustain a semi-serious sci-fi show are not the audience that tuned in to watch Family Guy In Space.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Porthos View Post
    Really? That's not the impression I got. Just the opposite, actually.

    Sure, the Galaxy Quest 'TV show' was goofy, a little silly, and a little nonsensical at times.

    ...

    Okay, a LOT nonsensical.

    But the takeaway I got from the film is that the TV show was ultimately inspirational. It was good. Not ironically good. Not "So Bad it's Good" good, but actually good. Warts and all it had charm and heart.

    That's why Galaxy Quest is called an affectionate parody of ST (and all the other SF shows). It might pull a Decon/Recon switch, in the words of TV Tropes, but it does seem to side on the argument that these shows should be celebrated. If improved.
    Inspirational doesn't mean good, and it can be more than one thing. Galaxy Quest (the show) was sexist and made basically without any real forethought to canon or establishing how things work, which is an inherent part of the joke considering Tim Allen's character is a bloviating sack of incompetence for the most part. He wants nothing more to get away from it and yet despite the flaws that are inherent to it, it's also one of the best things he's ever done. And that's WHY it has charm and heart, because despite it's flaws it is meant to be something earnest and pure, because it's not actually a real show, it's an inspiration to the aliens who saw it and were affected by it.

    The Orville takes that idea, that idea of a sexist, "by the seat of their pants" canon show, and ignores the fact that it's meant to be a contrast with the behavior of the actors, and plays everything as straight as possible. Instead of it being a meta joke on the commentary of how sci fi shows tend to work, it's just an actual sci fi show with a sexist bent to it. It's an unwinking parody that intends to be taken serious.


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    Actually, now that you raise the sexist issue, I suddenly realized this show is far more balanced than most sci-fi. Three males (captain, navigator, helmsman), three females (security chief, first officer, doctor) and two in the 'other' category (asexual robot science officer and the second officer is from a monosexual species). Possibly three in that last, if the blobby yellow thing becomes more important.

    Also, I think this show had more non-humanoid aliens than Star Trek would show in an entire production.

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    So any reception to Star Trek: Discovery?
    I mean if the review is that low of a bar for Discovery at same level of the Orville, then you might have same revulsion or liking to it.
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    I don't think Star Trek Discovery has aired yet.

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    The premiere is on CBS Sunday the 24th, the rest is locked behind a paywall with mandatory unskippable commercials. Discovery has pretty much no chance to compete with The Orville.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogar Demonblud View Post
    The premiere is on CBS Sunday the 24th, the rest is locked behind a paywall with mandatory unskippable commercials. Discovery has pretty much no chance to compete with The Orville.
    I believe it premiers on Netflix a day early, and the rest of the series along with it, for the whole rest of the whole world, minus the US.
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    I found it...okay. I wouldn't recommended it right now, but it might have potential to be an enjoyably humorous show. My biggest annoyance was that accelerating time in a volume wouldn't work like that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaZodiac View Post
    Inspirational doesn't mean good, and it can be more than one thing. Galaxy Quest (the show) was sexist and made basically without any real forethought to canon or establishing how things work, which is an inherent part of the joke considering Tim Allen's character is a bloviating sack of incompetence for the most part. He wants nothing more to get away from it and yet despite the flaws that are inherent to it, it's also one of the best things he's ever done. And that's WHY it has charm and heart, because despite it's flaws it is meant to be something earnest and pure, because it's not actually a real show, it's an inspiration to the aliens who saw it and were affected by it.

    The Orville takes that idea, that idea of a sexist, "by the seat of their pants" canon show, and ignores the fact that it's meant to be a contrast with the behavior of the actors, and plays everything as straight as possible. Instead of it being a meta joke on the commentary of how sci fi shows tend to work, it's just an actual sci fi show with a sexist bent to it. It's an unwinking parody that intends to be taken serious.
    ...

    Okay, I'll bite. Would you care to explain what, precisely, is sexist about the show as presented thus far?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade Paladin View Post
    ...

    Okay, I'll bite. Would you care to explain what, precisely, is sexist about the show as presented thus far?
    I'll admit it's second hand, but given who's making it I wouldn't doubt it. I can't remember the specifics because I'm tired from work, but some of the jokes are kinda sexist, and the outfits. Also the idea that the captain is clearly a bumbling buffoon and the lady second should be the actual captain. General stuff like that.

    I should probably watch this to be 100% sure, but I've got a rough week of work and my time is a bit more precious than that.


    Sly Zodi by Cuthalion. It's time to do a crime.
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