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Thread: The Orville

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    Default Re: The Orville

    Episode 3 and 4 were both a little on the heavy handed side for me. WARNING: SPOILERS!

    The ending episode 3 eventually got to was fine, but for a while I was actually hoping for a joke ending like scanners determining that half of those guys had been born as females, leading to them completely abandoning the single gendered species thing. That's because for most of the episode there really wasn't much of a dialogue, just people stating their position, and then giving arguments that didn't help much. "Look, some aliens are stronger then you." So? Could I have done better with a topic like that? Probably not by a long shot, but it was a little cringeworthy to me for the duration.

    Episode 4 was better, but still similarly unsubtle in places, with people just outright stating "you know fully well what is going on but you pretend something else to your people because that is how this power structure has been build up I'm totally not saying this so any viewers who didn't get that yet can catch up", basically. Nobody changed position during the story (in contrast to episode 3, where at least one person changed theirs, but for weird reasons I could hardly relate to), the bad guys just got scared to enforce their position any further because they could see stars now. But the setting and the basic idea and stuff were solid for a show like this.

    I guess my beef is that the show looks and feels like a bit of a loose and humorous take on Star Trek but then puts up an even straighter face than Trek itself when handling situations too complex to handle with the full delicacy they deserve in a 45 minute television show. And that clashes. Keeping it a little bit sillier would probably have made me like these episodes a lot more, while losing nothing of the arguments presented.
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    So, tonight’s episode was another romp through familiar Trek territory, with a crucial test of Captain Mercer’s seasoned judgement:



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    Charlize Theron vs. Adrienne Palicki. Definitely a tough one.

    Obviously Charlize did the best acting on the show tonight—so much that she almost seemed out of place. But I’m not complaining.


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    I admit, the time-traveling angle was a surprise, and a fun one. Ahh, the old criminal-from-the-future trick. TNG did that at least twice (Rasmussen and the Vorgabogs, or whatever they were) if not more.

    They really are having fun working their way through all the classic TNG tropes. Right now the show seems to be sliding into the niche of Star Trek Extra Lite, in which they try to do more than slapstick parody, but don’t reach quite far enough for original stories.

    It’s shameless brain candy, and I’m okay with that.


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    Cool effect with the dark-matter globules, much nicer than expected.

    But they must have spent all their budget on that sequence (and Charlize Theron) because the wormhole looked like it was done with bits of crepe paper. Not sure if that was intentional or not.


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    Between Seinfeld and the New Jersey housewives, I’m getting a definite sense of Seth McFarlane’s happy place.

    I predict we’ll be seeing Highlander sometime soon.

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    I pretty much agree with everything Palanan said. The humor is still (and I'm assuming will always remain) off to me. The Character of Gordon is still annoying and seems to suck talent out of almost any scene he's in. It works for what it is.

    I'm pretty happy having both this and Discovery on the air right now. I've got my shameless brain-candy here and Shiney VFX over there. I'm seeing the Orville or Discovery thing going around the internet as Star Wars vs Star Trek round 2. The obvious answer for me now, as then, is "both please."

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    Something I've noticed which may just be my own insanity. So i've heard background music helps audience immersion in dramatic scenes. It isn't really desired/utilized in comedy because viewing things from the outside or from a step back is beneficial for grasping certain styles of comedy.

    I think Orville could benefit from more background music. Especially the most recent episode.

    I'm glad a show like the Orville is on the air because I like Humorous Sci-Fi/Fantasy and want more of it. I just wish it were better.
    Last edited by lunaticfringe; 2017-10-06 at 03:31 PM.

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    Huh.
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    MASSIVE causality problems aside, one thing is bothering me. Mercer talked about his marriage and divorce. Unless I missed something, he did NOT identify Grayson as his ex-wife to Pria.
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    Originally Posted by SuperPanda
    I'm pretty happy having both this and Discovery on the air right now. I've got my shameless brain-candy here and Shiney VFX over there.... The obvious answer for me now, as then, is "both please."
    Yup, this in spades.

    If Discovery was on regular broadcast the way Orville is, I’d be right there with you, enjoying the VFX and the brain-candy alike. Sadly, CBS chose differently, so it’s Silly Trek for me.

    Oddly enough, Orville seems to be the show that’s bringing in the high-powered guest stars. My guess is that there are a lot of actors who dreamed of a guest spot on Star Trek when they were just starting out, and this is the next best thing.

    As to why they’re not on Discovery—I have a feeling that the producers of Discovery would see that as a distraction from the show’s characters and storyline, whereas Orville is cheerfully lightweight with both. It’s basically an hour-long sitcom in space.

    At some point I would like a thoughtful, in-depth show about the rigors of interstellar exploration, combined with the wonders of the unknown and a broadening awareness of humanity’s place in the galaxy; but until then, Orville will do. Apart from the entertainment value, it’s also a nice reminder of all the go-to tropes in science fiction writing.

    If Orville visits a planet with four-armed green aliens and barely-clad women, I may swoon.

    Originally Posted by SuperPanda
    I'm seeing the Orville or Discovery thing going around the internet as Star Wars vs Star Trek round 2.
    Ahh, the clannish nature of internet fandom. Comparing Star Trek to Star Wars was always apples to oranges, but comparing Orville to Discovery is more like kumquats to jellyfish.

    Originally Posted by lunaticfringe
    I'm glad a show like the Orville is on the air because I like Humorous Sci-Fi/Fantasy and want more of it. I just wish it were better.
    Well, it’s just a few episodes into the first season. I’m expecting it’ll get better, and in the meantime I’m having fun.

    Originally Posted by Renegade Paladin
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    Mercer talked about his marriage and divorce. Unless I missed something, he did NOT identify Grayson as his ex-wife to Pria.
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    I didn't pick up on that, but presumably that would have come out in conversation at some point. They probably spent a while in the holodeck, if nothing else.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Palanan View Post
    Oddly enough, Orville seems to be the show that’s bringing in the high-powered guest stars. My guess is that there are a lot of actors who dreamed of a guest spot on Star Trek when they were just starting out, and this is the next best thing.

    As to why they’re not on Discovery—I have a feeling that the producers of Discovery would see that as a distraction from the show’s characters and storyline, whereas Orville is cheerfully lightweight with both. It’s basically an hour-long sitcom in space.
    A lot of that is Seth MacFarlane knowing a lot of people in Hollywood, getting lots of them to do cameos in Family Guy, and being willing to make phone calls.
    Last edited by Renegade Paladin; 2017-10-06 at 10:22 PM.
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    Also famous people like a paycheck as much as the next guy.
    Now with half the calories!

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    Quote Originally Posted by The New Bruceski View Post
    Also famous people like a paycheck as much as the next guy.
    Doesn't hurt, but broadcast TV shows almost never have the budget to pay the asking salary of an A list film star. That's what makes it remarkable.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade Paladin View Post
    Doesn't hurt, but broadcast TV shows almost never have the budget to pay the asking salary of an A list film star. That's what makes it remarkable.
    I might be wrong, bit I always assumed Charlize Theron and Seth Macfarlane were actuall friends.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade Paladin View Post
    Huh.
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    MASSIVE causality problems aside, one thing is bothering me. Mercer talked about his marriage and divorce. Unless I missed something, he did NOT identify Grayson as his ex-wife to Pria.
    That is correct.

    And it's a clue that the reason she knows about them is not from their conversation.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Patterner View Post
    I might be wrong, bit I always assumed Charlize Theron and Seth Macfarlane were actuall friends.
    That is where I was going, yes.
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    My thoughts on the new episode:

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    I thought this one was pretty good, although I wasn't sure until the very end. I'm glad they got called out on killing an entire ship full of people, if it had just been "okay, you killed the bad guys, great job" I don't think I would have liked it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rooster707 View Post
    My thoughts on the new episode:

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    I thought this one was pretty good, although I wasn't sure until the very end. I'm glad they got called out on killing an entire ship full of people, if it had just been "okay, you killed the bad guys, great job" I don't think I would have liked it.
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    I'm with Mercer on this one. What the hell else were they supposed to do? Saving the children was downright heroic under the circumstances.
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    I'm liking this show more with each episode. This latest especially had a better balance of humor and pathos, and the humor was more character driven.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade Paladin View Post
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    I'm with Mercer on this one. What the hell else were they supposed to do? Saving the children was downright heroic under the circumstances.
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    He wasn't wrong. It just is. This was classic paladin fights the orcs but then has to deal with orc children.

    The Krill children will hate humans. The cycle continues.
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    Anyway:
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    Holy hell, Malloy should have gotten them caught LONG before he did. Who thought it was a good idea to send an undisciplined jackass who can't keep his mouth shut on an infiltration mission?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade Paladin View Post
    Anyway:
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    Holy hell, Malloy should have gotten them caught LONG before he did. Who thought it was a good idea to send an undisciplined jackass who can't keep his mouth shut on an infiltration mission?
    I think that's pretty much the premise of the entire series. Neither Malloy or Mercer should be anywhere near any job which requires good judgment or responsible behavior (most of the other characters manage to believably sell their "more normal" side and their professional sides).

    McFarlane said in an interview he basically wanted to take Sci-Fi stories and make them feel "mundane" by making the characters feel like normal people. Honestly the "eat a cactus" scene sold this idea for me, it was cute and funny and I'm okay with it. The aim of the show is "blue collar starfleet" while still having everyone be super amazing elite within their profession. I find that element to be hit or miss for me, others seem to love it.

    That said
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    I really, really wanted a scene where the Krill Captain and Priest debated our hero's being spies and the Captain disregarded it because they were too stupid to be spies. That would have been the comedic pay off which turned the whole thing to gold for me instead of just being awkward and annoying. On the whole I liked the episode and resolution - but the humor continues to completely miss the mark for me.
    Last edited by SuperPanda; 2017-10-17 at 12:25 AM.

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    Mercer isn't wholly incompetent. He did manage to command his ship in such a way that they defeated a vastly superior enemy combatant at the start of the episode, after all. But all Malloy is good for is flying the ship.
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    Mercer is far better than Malloy. I agree with that completely. He grates on my personally in the same way Malloy does but just to a lesser extent.

    Both actors seems to be trying to hard to be funny while everything else manages to be funny through being in character.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade Paladin View Post
    Anyway:
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    Holy hell, Malloy should have gotten them caught LONG before he did. Who thought it was a good idea to send an undisciplined jackass who can't keep his mouth shut on an infiltration mission?
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    Agreed, but what also bothered me is that his antics only got to the level of suspicion from the Krill cleric. His behavior was atrocious yet the Krill treated it as normal. Even when it's the Krill speaking with themselves it's in the same informal vein as the show without the wisecracks. I can appreciate the Captain and Malloy wouldn't know how to behave on a Krill ship and making issue about their names was spot on, but the ignorance was not followed through beyond that. They're trying too hard to be a non-parody parody the show is failing at being a parody and being taken seriously. The potential is there. They can't keep it.

    First step is get rid of Malloy.
    Last edited by Pex; 2017-10-17 at 07:42 AM.
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    I mean, the only possible answer I can think of is that the Krill, in their arrogant superiority complex, didn't consider the possibility that humans could effectively disguise themselves as Krill and so didn't think to be suspicious except for the priest Commissar.
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    Have people stopped talking about Orville? Or is the only reason why the thread is so far down because there is

    The comments regarding the last episodes didn't really play out. Of course the Krill lack of suspicion regarding incredibly naive human spies is beyond belief.

    The Krill failing to recognize obvious human spies acting absurdly seemed to me like a play for humor. Its not supposed to be believable that the ship accept two unbelievably naive and odd acting Krill with a fantastic survival story. Like much of the humor of the show however, its a bit problematic because the absurdity blends into a serious plot onboard the Krill ship.

    Its part of the split identity of the show that there's even a possibility of taking it seriously. The Orville definitely has a very weird sense of humor mixed into its serious dumbed-down Star Trek-style plots.
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    I liked the Krill episode, I just don't have much to add to it. Nobody got overly preachy, no real atrocities were committed, there was enough humor. Yes, the Krill were stupidly non suspicious, but that was kind of needed for the plot. That also brings in the question of whether it was good to release the children with the knowledge of these devices, since it turned out how potent a weapon they make. Two guys equipped with them can take out any Krill ship, let's win this war now! But that feels like nitpicking, because this episode hits the tone of a comedy show. I wouldn't ask those questions if Red Dwarf had an episode like this.

    So yeah, quality episode, well done. Gimme the next one please.
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    There wasn't a new episode last week, so not much to say until the next one on Thursday.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperPanda View Post
    Mercer is far better than Malloy. I agree with that completely. He grates on my personally in the same way Malloy does but just to a lesser extent.

    Both actors seems to be trying to hard to be funny while everything else manages to be funny through being in character.
    Its not the actors that are trying hard to be funny. Mercer and Malloy are both characters that try to be funny. Mercer makes jokes, he makes flat jokes, he makes inappropriate jokes to Bortus who can't get jokes (while inspecting his crew in the shuttle bay).

    Malloy does the same thing, but unlike Mercer, who has to actually captain during the episode, Malloy plays a clown without reservation. He gets to do extremely stupid things like trying to get Isaac to learn practical jokes (What could go wrong! Remember Data in Generations?).


    Quote Originally Posted by Lvl 2 Expert View Post
    I liked the Krill episode, I just don't have much to add to it. Nobody got overly preachy, no real atrocities were committed, there was enough humor. Yes, the Krill were stupidly non suspicious, but that was kind of needed for the plot. That also brings in the question of whether it was good to release the children with the knowledge of these devices, since it turned out how potent a weapon they make. Two guys equipped with them can take out any Krill ship, let's win this war now!
    Actually, that's the thing about the Krill episode and this show in general: the Krill didn't need to be stupidly non-suspicious if Mercer and Malloy weren't so stupid obviously suspicious. Together it made for the basic humor of the episode: two absurdly non-qualified spies successfully infiltrate a Krill ship.

    Releasing the children, with the knowledge of how the Union infiltrated a Krill ship, wasn't tactically smart. However, this and the fact that Mercer was taken to task for killing an enemy vessel mid-attack, was consistent with the naivety of the mission in the first place.

    Quote Originally Posted by rooster707 View Post
    My thoughts on the new episode:

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    I thought this one was pretty good, although I wasn't sure until the very end. I'm glad they got called out on killing an entire ship full of people, if it had just been "okay, you killed the bad guys, great job" I don't think I would have liked it.
    Getting called to task for killing to stop an attack by the enemy would be unthinkable in Discovery. A different Star Trek episode would have likely handled it as more of an internal reflection on the part of the captain. Enemy ships get blown up in Star Trek (with everyone presumably dying), it happens. Its actually odd that it was called out, but it shows how peaceful (to the point of naivety) the Union is when bringing home an intact enemy battlecruiser (when previously they haven't gotten as much as an intact shuttle) isn't celebrated.
    Quote Originally Posted by Morty View Post
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    Orville completely outclasses Discovery, and its not even close. I just cannot stand the way Discovery totally thumbs its nose at the Star Trek (original) level of technology (whom they should be trailing) and sets themselves up as miles ahead, simply because their producers have shiny new CGI toys that ST never even dreamed of having. Holographic computer projections, a warp drive enabled shuttle craft, a warp drive main vessel that can cross the universe in an instant...even the Klingons are given cloaking technology that they should only have gotten after the alliance with the Romulans, which was previewed in ST original. Not to mention the reverse evolutionary process the Klingons have undergone.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reddish Mage View Post
    However, this and the fact that Mercer was taken to task for killing an enemy vessel mid-attack, was consistent with the naivety of the mission in the first place.

    ...

    Getting called to task for killing to stop an attack by the enemy would be unthinkable in Discovery.
    This here makes me question whether you actually watched the episode rather than just winging it on what was spoiled in this thread. Because while Mercer was taken to task, after a fashion, it wasn't by his superiors. It was by the single Krill adult they captured alive, by virtue of her being the schoolteacher and being in the room they left dark to preserve the children. Of course she was mad at him. Why wouldn't she be?
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikelaC1 View Post
    Orville completely outclasses Discovery, and its not even close. I just cannot stand the way Discovery totally thumbs its nose at the Star Trek (original) level of technology (whom they should be trailing) and sets themselves up as miles ahead, simply because their producers have shiny new CGI toys that ST never even dreamed of having. Holographic computer projections, a warp drive enabled shuttle craft, a warp drive main vessel that can cross the universe in an instant...even the Klingons are given cloaking technology that they should only have gotten after the alliance with the Romulans, which was previewed in ST original. Not to mention the reverse evolutionary process the Klingons have undergone.
    That's been my biggest problem with more than just the tech. They want to have it both ways.

    They want to have PREQUEL TREK and yet do whatever they want with the canon and technology. If that's what they wanted they should have done it post-Voyager and they could have done whatever struck their fancy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade Paladin View Post
    This here makes me question whether you actually watched the episode rather than just winging it on what was spoiled in this thread. Because while Mercer was taken to task, after a fashion, it wasn't by his superiors. It was by the single Krill adult they captured alive, by virtue of her being the schoolteacher and being in the room they left dark to preserve the children. Of course she was mad at him. Why wouldn't she be?
    I did see the episode, I didn't remember the Union admiral saying anything about it except for schoolteacher-sweet-on-Mercer but I read someone else's post as meaning Mercer got balled out by the Union (I think the post said literally that the "show" ended with it though).

    Given the Union wanted to launch a crazy-dangerous mission with their only-ever intact Krill shuttle for the scripture because they thought if they only understood the Krill a bit better they would have peace. I figure the Admiral who launched the mission would be fairly upset to learn Mercer ended up slaughtering the entire crew and taking back the warship.

    That and the whole episode (or the show for that matter) suggests a great deal of moral & intellectual naivety on the part of ... really everyone.

    However, Miss Krill's moment at the end was a high point of the episode, and what she said was not naive. What she says is from a mature perspective, it was sharp and bitter, and it confronts Mercer that his naive moral perspective is not going to be universally applauded.

    She not only bitterly lambasts Mercer for killing her people but also she doesn't understand (or recognize) the compassion in Mercer. She actually criticizes him for his mercy. She tells him: those kids you saved, are going to become your enemies.
    Quote Originally Posted by Morty View Post
    It would have been awesome if the writers had put as much thought into it as you guys do.
    The laws of physics are not crying in a corner, they are bawling in the forums.

    Thanks to half-halfling for the avatar

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