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  1. - Top - End - #181
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    Default Re: Realizations that make you feel really stupid

    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymouswizard View Post
    As that well known rule says, 'I before E, except when it isn't'.

    Height. Weight. Two commonly used words that break the commonly quoted rule. It messed me up a lot before I learnt to disregard it (I thankfully rarely write by hand these days unless it's equations, and of I do the lack of a spell checker doesn't matter due to circumstances).
    The rule as I learned it was "I before E, except after C, or when sounded like A, as in 'neighbor' or 'weigh.'"

    It still doesn't cover everything (like "height," as you mentioned), but as a starting point it was marginally better than nothing.

  2. - Top - End - #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mith View Post
    I now have Stan Rogers' Northwest Passage in my head from reading this.
    Sorry...I was making poetic naming of places in Michigan. And poetic naming of Buffalo and Niagara. Though now that I hear that song I see how I have channeled him.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wardog View Post
    Rockphed said it well.
    Quote Originally Posted by Yuki Akuma View Post
    We should change the collective noun for crocodiles to "an abundance of crocodiles".
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  3. - Top - End - #183
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    Default Re: Realizations that make you feel really stupid

    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymouswizard View Post
    As that well known rule says, 'I before E, except when it isn't'.
    I before E, except after C, or when sounds Like A, as in 'neighbor' or 'weigh', but only with the approved written consent of Major League Baseball, in participating locations only, void where prohibited, your results may vary, side-effects include nausea and dry mouth, do not use I Before E if you are nursing or pregnant or plan to become pregnant.

  4. - Top - End - #184
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    Default Re: Realizations that make you feel really stupid

    Quote Originally Posted by Bohandas View Post
    I before E, except after C, or when sounds Like A, as in 'neighbor' or 'weigh', but only with the approved written consent of Major League Baseball, in participating locations only, void where prohibited, your results may vary, side-effects include nausea and dry mouth, do not use I Before E if you are nursing or pregnant or plan to become pregnant.
    Results not typical.
    Gosh 2D8HP, you are so very correct (and also good looking).

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    Quote Originally Posted by littlebum2002 View Post
    It would be nice to just change the title of this thread to be "stuff about Jedi"
    Quote Originally Posted by Sapphire Guard View Post
    On the whole, Gotham's citizens are probably safer than Metropolis' or Marvel New York. The high crime rate is more than compensated for by the low alien invasion rate.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Extinguisher View Post
    Actually im saying all of them are trans, even if theyve made babies or not. Its fantasy, baby!

  5. - Top - End - #185
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    Default Re: Realizations that make you feel really stupid

    *Finishes reading all the Language dissertations from the few days spent sick in bed*

    Now I'm curious: How many of you English-speakers are aware of the Day written English became weird?

    Because a lot of the useless grammar rules from school can easily be replaced if you know where the word actually comes from. It helps with pronunciation too. Of course, knowing a different language other than English helps a lot
    Last edited by Lord Joeltion; 2017-12-20 at 07:47 PM.
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  6. - Top - End - #186
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    What I find strange is that English spelling didn't follow the changes as they were happening.

    Of course, this doesn't always happen (see: post-classical Greek). Maybe the shift was just too large to follow. But it's impressive that effort was put into the creation and enforcement of a common spelling, but not towards an increase of its transparency.

  7. - Top - End - #187
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    Default Re: Realizations that make you feel really stupid

    Here is me thinking that I before E rule is not an actual rule because there are more exceptions than those that follow it.

  8. - Top - End - #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mith View Post
    Here is me thinking that I before E rule is not an actual rule because there are more exceptions than those that follow it.
    Like many rules about English, it was invented by over eager teachers in the 19th century who thought English derived from Latin.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wardog View Post
    Rockphed said it well.
    Quote Originally Posted by Yuki Akuma View Post
    We should change the collective noun for crocodiles to "an abundance of crocodiles".
    Dragontar by Serpentine.

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  9. - Top - End - #189
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    A friend of mine was in his thirties before he realised that wasps and bees are different. He thought they both make honey! Appart from that, he's very intelligent.

    Also, I'm English and my girlfriend is from the US. It wasn't until I met her that I realised that we really don't speak the same language!

  10. - Top - End - #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by PunsAndDragons View Post
    A friend of mine was in his thirties before he realized that wasps and bees are different. He thought they both make honey! Appart from that, he's very intelligent.

    Also, I'm English and my girlfriend is from the US. It wasn't until I met her that I realized that we really don't speak the same language!
    I know. It seems like women and men speak the same language... but its just the words and they have completely different meaning.
    Oh, you mean British English and Americanese? There's that, too.
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    My entire non-immediate family is Austrian. The very best free translators I can find can get maybe 60% of the words when I want to see what they're saying on social media. And there's a 0% chance I'll be able to learn their dialect without going to Tyrol.

    Friggin' German.
    Gosh 2D8HP, you are so very correct (and also good looking).

    Cuthalion makes great avatars. Like my Silver Dragon.
    Quote Originally Posted by littlebum2002 View Post
    It would be nice to just change the title of this thread to be "stuff about Jedi"
    Quote Originally Posted by Sapphire Guard View Post
    On the whole, Gotham's citizens are probably safer than Metropolis' or Marvel New York. The high crime rate is more than compensated for by the low alien invasion rate.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Extinguisher View Post
    Actually im saying all of them are trans, even if theyve made babies or not. Its fantasy, baby!

  12. - Top - End - #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    My entire non-immediate family is Austrian. The very best free translators I can find can get maybe 60% of the words when I want to see what they're saying on social media. And there's a 0% chance I'll be able to learn their dialect without going to Tyrol.

    Friggin' German.
    German is great. Everything you can possibly say automatically sounds like youre filled with rage.
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

  13. - Top - End - #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    German is great. Everything you can possibly say automatically sounds like youre filled with rage.
    Don't get be wrong, I would love to learn it so I could talk to my family without making them resort to English, it talk to the older ones who didn't have English taught in school. It's just that I have some hurdles between "learning German" and "talking to my family."
    Gosh 2D8HP, you are so very correct (and also good looking).

    Cuthalion makes great avatars. Like my Silver Dragon.
    Quote Originally Posted by littlebum2002 View Post
    It would be nice to just change the title of this thread to be "stuff about Jedi"
    Quote Originally Posted by Sapphire Guard View Post
    On the whole, Gotham's citizens are probably safer than Metropolis' or Marvel New York. The high crime rate is more than compensated for by the low alien invasion rate.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Extinguisher View Post
    Actually im saying all of them are trans, even if theyve made babies or not. Its fantasy, baby!

  14. - Top - End - #194
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    SamuraiGuy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vinyadan View Post
    What I find strange is that English spelling didn't follow the changes as they were happening.

    Of course, this doesn't always happen (see: post-classical Greek). Maybe the shift was just too large to follow. But it's impressive that effort was put into the creation and enforcement of a common spelling, but not towards an increase of its transparency.
    Well, there was a lot of standardization roughly during the same era in Spain and France (and I think at least in Germany too... but that's a language I don't know too well). That's when their Royal Academies of Language appeared. The difference is that English never got a "book of rules" that was enforced into vernacular use like it happened in the other two Empires. The abridged version, is that Spaniards and French erudites were more like into "prescriptive language" (which makes total sense, given the age); and the Englishmen, for whatever reasons (probably just spite) followed a more descriptive philosophy of language. Which gave birth not only to the Great Vowel Shift, but also the weird silent "W" in words like "sword", and a whole lot other silent letters ('k' in knight/know) that where just there because some writer thought they weren't as much used as he preferred. Point its, while Old Englishmen put a lot of effort into having a common standardized language, it feebles in comparison to other languages where the enforcement was a lot more thorough and strict. Specially in those two.

    And yes, I suppose that having a mismatched ancestry of language roots (celt, germanic/saxon, norman/latin) made the intellectual discussion a whole less easier to define. What do you mean by transparency anyway?

    Quote Originally Posted by PunsAndDragons View Post
    A friend of mine was in his thirties before he realised that wasps and bees are different. He thought they both make honey! Appart from that, he's very intelligent.
    But wasps do consume and store honey/nectar. AFIK, there are people who know what kind of wasp nests to collect if from, in the country I live. And not all bees produce honey either. I don't think honey is the best defining trait for them, because the difference between "stores" and "produces" would be tricky for the common folk.
    Last edited by Lord Joeltion; 2017-12-26 at 08:55 PM.
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    My English non très bueno, da? CALL: 0800-BADGRINGO

  15. - Top - End - #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by joeltion View Post
    *Finishes reading all the Language dissertations from the few days spent sick in bed*

    Now I'm curious: How many of you English-speakers are aware of the Day written English became weird?

    Because a lot of the useless grammar rules from school can easily be replaced if you know where the word actually comes from. It helps with pronunciation too. Of course, knowing a different language other than English helps a lot
    Huh. That’s really interesting. Especially looking at like Spanish pronunciation and how Japanese is Romanized.
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  16. - Top - End - #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by joeltion View Post
    I don't think honey is the best defining trait for them, because the difference between "stores" and "produces" would be tricky for the common folk.
    The common folk are familiar with the concepts of both storage and production. They're not particularly technical.

  17. - Top - End - #197
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    Just a minor thing, some of the 'unneeded' letters are signallers. While know might not need the 'k' pronunciation wise, is incredibly useful to help me separate it from now (see the confusion that happens when you do that the 'spelt the same, sound different' words).

    Similarly, some of the American spelling differences don't cause a pronunciation difference (honor/honour), some do (the only one that springs to mind is pedophile/paedophile).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelphas View Post
    So here I am, trapped in my laboratory, trying to create a Mechabeast that's powerful enough to take down the howling horde outside my door, but also won't join them once it realizes what I've done...twentieth time's the charm, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    How about a Jovian Uplift stuck in a Case morph? it makes so little sense.

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    By transparency I mean ease of understanding the sound hiding behind the writing. The less special cases, the more transparent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vinyadan View Post
    By transparency I mean ease of understanding the sound hiding behind the writing. The less special cases, the more transparent.
    The fewer special cases.
    Gosh 2D8HP, you are so very correct (and also good looking).

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    Quote Originally Posted by littlebum2002 View Post
    It would be nice to just change the title of this thread to be "stuff about Jedi"
    Quote Originally Posted by Sapphire Guard View Post
    On the whole, Gotham's citizens are probably safer than Metropolis' or Marvel New York. The high crime rate is more than compensated for by the low alien invasion rate.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Extinguisher View Post
    Actually im saying all of them are trans, even if theyve made babies or not. Its fantasy, baby!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Knaight View Post
    The common folk are familiar with the concepts of both storage and production. They're not particularly technical.
    Not necessarily, when it comes to undefined species of hymenoptera. I don't think "common folks" are expected to even know there are an absurd number species of bees to begin with. I don't think most people living in a city (who aren't into entomology) know the existence of stingless bees. My point was that most people would assume that a hymenoptera who consumes and stores honey also produces it. Which isn't always the case.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymouswizard View Post
    Just a minor thing, some of the 'unneeded' letters are signallers. While know might not need the 'k' pronunciation wise, is incredibly useful to help me separate it from now (see the confusion that happens when you do that the 'spelt the same, sound different' words).
    Yeah, of course they are there for a reason. That doesn't mean the "k" in an of itself is completely arbitrary. In words like "sword" it makes less sense even today, because its homophone is both obsolete and doesn't quite sound as equal as know/now. And that's not even considering that homophones don't always have a different form in written language (left/left).

    Quote Originally Posted by Vinyadan View Post
    By transparency I mean ease of understanding the sound hiding behind the writing. The less special cases, the more transparent.
    That's probably because it's ultimately a futile effort. The only way to achieve that would be trading the complete alphabet for the IPA symbols (and I don't think people would like that). And that would spawn an ever bigger problem when it comes to dialectical/phonetic/regional differences. Pronunciation it's not something you "cure" like a disease. Because it isn't a disease to begin with. It's a natural occurrence in the language experience. Absolute "transparency" isn't required because it requires a whole lot of effort to accomplish very little. In Spanish, for instance; we never talk about "how does a word is pronounced" because we learn pronunciation based on letters rather than words/combinations. People who speak Spanish believe that they write "the way a word is pronounced". That never prevented the appearance of variant pronunciations; from a phonetic perspective. And dialects. And regional accents.
    Last edited by Lord Joeltion; 2017-12-27 at 09:55 AM.
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    My English non très bueno, da? CALL: 0800-BADGRINGO

  21. - Top - End - #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by danzibr View Post
    Huh. That’s really interesting. Especially looking at like Spanish pronunciation and how Japanese is Romanized.
    Bear in mind that the most familiar way of Japanese Romanisation (Hepburn) was intended to aid Western speakers as it's based on English and Italian pronunciation.

    Nihon-shiki (written by Japanese for Japanese) and Kunrei-shiki (modified version of Nihon-shiki for modern Japanese syllaby) are the next two most common ways of romanisation and there are multiple other non-standard methods.


    Still, it's not as significant as the differences for Chinese romanisation; the same name in Wade-Giles (obsolete system written by westerners for westerners) and Pinyin (official standard Mandarin) can be unrecognisable even though they're pronounced the same (曹操, the King of Wei from the Three Kingdoms era, romanises as Ts'ao Ts'ao in Wade Giles, or more recognisably, Cáo Cāo in Pinyin).

    This isn't even starting on the variant romanisations for the different dialects - Cantonese has both Yale romanisation (Chòuh Chōu) and Jyutping (Cou Cou), both of which are still taught (I suspect for political reasons, which I can't get into on this board).

  22. - Top - End - #202
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    There's a line between saving water when washing something and leaving it damp and scummy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by joeltion View Post
    That's probably because it's ultimately a futile effort. The only way to achieve that would be trading the complete alphabet for the IPA symbols (and I don't think people would like that). And that would spawn an ever bigger problem when it comes to dialectical/phonetic/regional differences. Pronunciation it's not something you "cure" like a disease. Because it isn't a disease to begin with. It's a natural occurrence in the language experience. Absolute "transparency" isn't required because it requires a whole lot of effort to accomplish very little. In Spanish, for instance; we never talk about "how does a word is pronounced" because we learn pronunciation based on letters rather than words/combinations. People who speak Spanish believe that they write "the way a word is pronounced". That never prevented the appearance of variant pronunciations; from a phonetic perspective. And dialects. And regional accents.
    The presence of local (or other) variations is a different problem, though. Writing systems are generally built around the variant with the highest prestige. My problem with English spelling is that even this variant (in England, RP) has exceptions with spelling (e.g. great vs teach). It admittedly is a bigger problem for us foreigners, however.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vinyadan View Post
    The presence of local (or other) variations is a different problem, though. Writing systems are generally built around the variant with the highest prestige. My problem with English spelling is that even this variant (in England, RP) has exceptions with spelling (e.g. great vs teach). It admittedly is a bigger problem for us foreigners, however.
    All this discussion reminds me of a comic.

    http://www.sheldoncomics.com/archive/090201.html
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    Once, I noticed that a bus I was on was going to a different destination. and that I was leaving from a different town then I thought I was in. and that I was on the roof of the bus. And that I was dreaming.

    Now I've noticed that I experience things in my dreams as if they were mid 1300s poetry, and that, oddly enough I can actually see the color purple, but in a mid range HUD.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ve4grm View Post
    All this discussion reminds me of a comic.

    http://www.sheldoncomics.com/archive/090201.html
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    In the case of the comic. It does makes sense. When you behead something you end up with another head-your victim's.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sktarq View Post
    In the case of the comic. It does makes sense. When you behead something you end up with another head-your victim's.
    Ha! Fair enough. Though that would probably be beheading yourself, rather than beheading the other person.

    Oh well. Three blind dudes and a German dictionary, after all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vinyadan View Post
    The presence of local (or other) variations is a different problem, though. Writing systems are generally built around the variant with the highest prestige. My problem with English spelling is that even this variant (in England, RP) has exceptions with spelling (e.g. great vs teach). It admittedly is a bigger problem for us foreigners, however.
    Well, I swear I'm no expert (no, really), but I suspect some of those cases are involved somewhat with the Great Vowel Shift, which is a process throughout the entire English language that modified the way English people pronounced vocalic combinations AFTER having decided the basic spelling of words. IIRC, that's why "eat" sounds like "eet" instead of "e-at" and why our planet isn't called "Ee-Arth".

    Maybe it's because of my studies, but I actually find less issues with English pronunciation than with other languages. Most of the exceptions are fairly clear, and most follow a pattern (monosyllabic pattern; second syllable pattern, etc.). It's kinda like irregular verbs: once you learn that all of them have monosyllabic roots, figuring out irregular verbs is easy cake. Plus, English has very little rules to begin with
    Last edited by Lord Joeltion; 2018-01-04 at 02:09 PM.
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    Here's a realization that made me feel really stupid.

    Back on Christmas Eve, when I finally worked out that my girlfriend was asking me out.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelphas View Post
    So here I am, trapped in my laboratory, trying to create a Mechabeast that's powerful enough to take down the howling horde outside my door, but also won't join them once it realizes what I've done...twentieth time's the charm, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    How about a Jovian Uplift stuck in a Case morph? it makes so little sense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymouswizard View Post
    Here's a realization that made me feel really stupid.

    Back on Christmas Eve, when I finally worked out that my girlfriend was asking me out.
    Hooray! That's a pretty happy realization.
    Gosh 2D8HP, you are so very correct (and also good looking).

    Cuthalion makes great avatars. Like my Silver Dragon.
    Quote Originally Posted by littlebum2002 View Post
    It would be nice to just change the title of this thread to be "stuff about Jedi"
    Quote Originally Posted by Sapphire Guard View Post
    On the whole, Gotham's citizens are probably safer than Metropolis' or Marvel New York. The high crime rate is more than compensated for by the low alien invasion rate.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Extinguisher View Post
    Actually im saying all of them are trans, even if theyve made babies or not. Its fantasy, baby!

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