Realizations that make you feel really stupid

[Knaight]

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So the boss of my boss would be "my boss's boss", or "my boss' boss"?

Keep the third s.

[AMFV]

You used "bosses" (the plural form of boss, ie, multiple bosses) in place of "boss' " (the possessive form, such as your boss' pen). It's still pronounced the same, tho.

To be fair this is actually NOT a cut and dry rule, and different style guides and different grammarians have different opinions on which is more appropriate. If you think grammar is a set of rules rather than a few conventions that angry grammarians are fighting over, you should probably read some Safire.

Edit: Basically how it works for most people is that whatever their seventh grade English teacher told them, they believe to be absolute truth, even when it turns out that it's not quite that simple. And this applies to a lot of things not just grammar rules.

[Brother Oni]

So the boss of my boss would be "my boss's boss", or "my boss' boss"?

To add fuel to the fire, I would write it "my boss' boss", but pronounce it "my bosses boss".

[Anonymouswizard]

Note that 'my bosses's boss' is also technically correct if you have more than one boss, and pronounced exactly the same.

But yeah, I tend to go with 's when pluralising words ending in s, because that's how my secondary school wrote it's name. Nobody pronounced the extra s, and I had to point it out to classmates more than once, but it was there on the official name (still is, going by the website). Then again almost nobody used the full name, it was always 'Lord Bill's'.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

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So the boss of my boss would be "my boss's boss", or "my boss' boss"?

Either is correct, as long as you are consistent with the one you pick. What is in poor grammatical form is if you sometimes add the 's' and sometimes you don't.

GW

[Peelee]

That wasn't intended to be a comprehensive list - it also didn't include Colorado, where I live (although to be fair only part of Colorado really qualifies. The south is pretty hot.).

Oh, I know, but you lobbed that one over the plate.

Now, if you wanna talk about the south being pretty hot...

[Jay R]

To be fair this is actually NOT a cut and dry rule, and different style guides and different grammarians have different opinions on which is more appropriate. If you think grammar is a set of rules rather than a few conventions that angry grammarians are fighting over, you should probably read some Safire.

Edit: Basically how it works for most people is that whatever their seventh grade English teacher told them, they believe to be absolute truth, even when it turns out that it's not quite that simple. And this applies to a lot of things not just grammar rules.

But you left out a couple of crucial considerations.

1. How you write does in fact affect how people think of your writing. The choice is not just arbitrary conventions.

2. Some questions are clear and unambiguous, and all respected grammarians agree. One of these is the possessive of "boss". The correct form is "boss's".

If you write "boss's boss", nobody will blink twice. If you write "boss' boss", many people won't notice, some people won't care, and some people will think your grammar is poor.

[Rockphed]

Yes the big spaces of Alaska and Texas are impressive, as are the caribou and cows, but where do the most people in the U.S.A. live?

Oh that's right, my home State of California

And where is the

best weather in the U.S.A.


if not the world?

My hometown of Oakland, California.

California currently hosts about 10% of the US population. Impressive it may be, but "most" it is not. Also, you always seem to be on fire, having mudslides, or in the depths of a horrible drought.

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North Dakota doesn't exist, have you ever known anyone from there, or even seen a car with a North Dakota license plate?
I certainly haven't.

There is a great ice wall at the northern border of "South" Dakota, which no one has crossed.

No one!

I have personally driven through North Dakota. Mostly it was fields of sunflowers.

You used "bosses" (the plural form of boss, ie, multiple bosses) in place of "boss' " (the possessive form, such as your boss' pen). It's still pronounced the same, tho.

If you are applying the possessive to your boss, it is written "boss's". If you are applying the possessive to your bosses, it is written "bosses'".

Note that 'my bosses's boss' is also technically correct if you have more than one boss, and pronounced exactly the same.

But yeah, I tend to go with 's when pluralising words ending in s, because that's how my secondary school wrote it's name. Nobody pronounced the extra s, and I had to point it out to classmates more than once, but it was there on the official name (still is, going by the website). Then again almost nobody used the full name, it was always 'Lord Bill's'.

As a note, it's is a contraction for "it is". The possessive form of the neuter pronoun is "its", no apostrophe. For anyone at all interested, I suggest reading "Eats, Shoots, and Leaves".

[Peelee]

Yes the big spaces of Alaska and Texas are impressive, as are the caribou and cows, but where do the most people in the U.S.A. live?

Oh that's right, my home State of California

And where is the

best weather in the U.S.A.


if not the world?

My hometown of Oakland, California.

Spoiler: Yes, I hear it's lovely this time of year.

Show

[Jormengand]

Either is correct, as long as you are consistent with the one you pick. What is in poor grammatical form is if you sometimes add the 's' and sometimes you don't.

GW

Although some grammatical styles would add the extra S for some words, but others, usually mostly dependent on the pronunciation of the final s (generally, I would say Claudius' but James's, for example). Of course, this is mainly becuase English has very few rules and breaks half of the ones it does have anyway.

[Anonymouswizard]

As that well known rule says, 'I before E, except when it isn't'.

Height. Weight. Two commonly used words that break the commonly quoted rule. It messed me up a lot before I learnt to disregard it (I thankfully rarely write by hand these days unless it's equations, and of I do the lack of a spell checker doesn't matter due to circumstances).

[danzibr]

As that well known rule says, 'I before E, except when it isn't'.

Height. Weight. Two commonly used words that break the commonly quoted rule. It messed me up a lot before I learnt to disregard it (I thankfully rarely write by hand these days unless it's equations, and of I do the lack of a spell checker doesn't matter due to circumstances).

Huh. Weird.

[Bohandas]

California currently hosts about 10% of the US population. Impressive it may be, but "most" it is not. Also, you always seem to be on fire, having mudslides, or in the depths of a horrible drought.

I think he meant that it's the state wih the most people, not that most people are in that state.

[Rockphed]

I think he meant that it's the state wih the most people, not that most people are in that state.

Oddly enough, California is 11th in terms of population density.

[2D8HP]

I think he meant that it's the state wih the most people, not that most people are in that state.

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Yes.

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".

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GW

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I thank you fine folk for filling in missing pieces of my grammar education.

...I have personally driven through North Dakota. Mostly it was fields of sunflowers....

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You have visited North Dakota?!



Then you have explored and helped create realms which no mortal has heretofore been!

You're a hero on the scale of Earl Aubec of Malador who lived centuries before Elric of Melniboné. An incarnation of the Eternal Champion who was responsible for, among other things, extending the boundries of the Lawful Earth into the Chaos at the World's Edge!

...Also, you always seem to be on fire,...

I may have smelled smoke for two weeks straight, two months ago, but I assure you I saw no flames!
(In 1991 I saw an area greater thsn the size of the town I live in covered by flames)

..having mudslides..

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Seeing mansions sliding down hillsides is the highpoint of the winter season!

...or in the depths of a horrible drought.

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THERE IS NO DROUGHT!
(That was last year. And the year before that, And the year before that one....)

Spoiler: Yes, I hear it's lovely this time of year.

Show

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That is Los Angeles. Which is beyond the fields I know, so probably Dragons.

So I have long felt that "Beyond the Fields I know", "There be Dragons" anyplace that is not within a days walk of a BART or Cal-Trans train station:

I lived in Santa Cruz CA for a few years and even there some people considered Oakland to be basically part of SF. Up here in Washington where I am now almost everyone thinks of Oakland as a part of SF. It might not be right but the idea is is pretty widespread once you get away from the Bay area.

Santa Cruz?

Washington?

There be Dragons!

I be dragons?

I'd say the odds are likely, the presence of big Dragons is why no BART or Cal-Trans trains stations have built down there, right?

That's a shame. I like using the BART whenever I head up north. The thought they're deliberately excluding me is a little hurtful. I will sooth myself with the traditional Santa Cruz soothings, of being pretty queer, rolling around on a pile of gold, and eating free trade, organic artichokes roasted with our breath weapons.

...and most of this week when winds blow from the North, I smell smoke and see ash.

Dragons?

[Jormengand]

As that well known rule says, 'I before E, except when it isn't'.

Height. Weight. Two commonly used words that break the commonly quoted rule. It messed me up a lot before I learnt to disregard it (I thankfully rarely write by hand these days unless it's equations, and of I do the lack of a spell checker doesn't matter due to circumstances).

The rule does usually contain "But only when it [the ie or ei sound] rhymes with bee", otherwise I'm pretty sure there are more words that break the rule than conform to it, although the majority of them (words like weir, hacienda and glacier) aren't that common, whereas only a significant minority of words break the rule with that amendment (weir and weird still break it, for example).

That said, a lot of the ones which do break the rule are obvious precisely because they're not pronounced that way - it's difficult to get glacier wrong because you can actually hear the i coming before the e.

[Peelee]

Hacienda and glacier don't have diphthongs, though. The vowels are pronounced individually.

[Fiery Diamond]

Hacienda and glacier don't have diphthongs, though. The vowels are pronounced individually.

That depends on your accent. I pronounce glacier with a diphthong, and I don't think I've ever heard anyone pronounce it differently. "Glay-see-er" sounds wrong, "Glay-shur" is how I've always said and heard it. And google agrees with me.

[Keltest]

That depends on your accent. I pronounce glacier with a diphthong, and I don't think I've ever heard anyone pronounce it differently. "Glay-see-er" sounds wrong, "Glay-shur" is how I've always said and heard it. And google agrees with me.

I typically pronounce it Glay-shur as well, but I also have a noticeable accent (jury is out on just what accent it is, but its there), and when I enunciate for whatever reason, you can hear all three syllables (something like "Glay-shee-ure")

[2D8HP]

Hacienda and glacier don't have diphthongs, though. The vowels are pronounced individually.

That depends on your accent. I pronounce glacier with a diphthong, and I don't think I've ever heard anyone pronounce it differently. "Glay-see-er" sounds wrong, "Glay-shur" is how I've always said and heard it. And google agrees with me.

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Speaking of Google, I had to "Google" the meaning of dipthong:

diph·thong

ˈdifˌTHäNG,ˈdipˌTHäNG/

noun

plural noun: diphthongs

a sound formed by the combination of two vowels in a single syllable, in which the sound begins as one vowel and moves toward another (as in*coinloud, and side).

a digraph representing the sound of a diphthong or single vowel (as in feat).

a compound vowel character; a ligature (such asæ).

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Where and how are you guys learning this stuff?

[ve4grm]

As that well known rule says, 'I before E, except when it isn't'.

Height. Weight. Two commonly used words that break the commonly quoted rule. It messed me up a lot before I learnt to disregard it (I thankfully rarely write by hand these days unless it's equations, and of I do the lack of a spell checker doesn't matter due to circumstances).

To quote comedian Brian Regan (video here):

“I" before "E" except after "C" and when sounding like "A" as in neighbor and weigh, and on weekends and holidays and all throughout May, and YOU'LL ALWAYS BE WRONG NO MATTER WHAT YOU SAY!!!!”

[Peelee]

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Speaking of Google, I had to "Google" the meaning of dipthong:

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Where and how are you guys learning this stuff?

Fancy private Catholic school for 12 years. Dominican sisters for kindergarten though 8th grade, Benedictine monks for high school. My dad had Jesuits, who I've heard nothing but fantastic things about, but he also lived in NYC. Don't think there are too many in the South.

[Rockphed]

Where and how are you guys learning this stuff?

Would you believe a graduate level electrical engineering class where we did a project on speech-reproduction? Alternatively, my siblings took German in high-school and had to learn some of this stuff to understand what the incomprehensiblecompressionthatisgermanwriting means. (I hope I did that right; I only have a few examples from some German speakers on this board to go by).

[Peelee]

Would you believe a graduate level electrical engineering class where we did a project on speech-reproduction?

Ooo! Fun speech fact! Yoda's style of speech in the Star Wars movies is called "anastrophe." It is an archaic convention, and is the inversion of normal sentence syntax.

Diphthongs I learned about in Latin class. Anastrophe I learned from a youtube video because I like Star Wars.

[Mith]

You have visited North Dakota?!



Then you have explored and helped create realms which no mortal has heretofore been!

You're a hero on the scale of Earl Aubec of Malador who lived centuries before Elric of Melniboné. An incarnation of the Eternal Champion who was responsible for, among other things, extending the boundries of the Lawful Earth into the Chaos at the World's Edge!

So this would blow your mind about Canada then?



I can confirm that legend speaks of the portal to The Far Realms known only as On'Tarri-O.

Because being on the other side of the 2nd largest country makes everything past Manitoba the Far Realms

I may have smelled smoke for two weeks straight, two months ago, but I assure you I saw no flames!
(In 1991 I saw an area greater thsn the size of the town I live in covered by flames)

That was us last spring and summer with Fort Mcmurray and British Columbia burning. I hope things stay calm and pleasantly warm for your parts of California.
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That is Los Angeles. Which is beyond the fields I know, so probably Dragons.

I was tempted to make this joke, but didn't know if I would be hitting a sore spot.

[Peelee]

So this would blow your mind about Canada then?

Man, that guy really takes small local elections seriously.

[Jay R]

Where and how are you guys learning this stuff?

Dipthongs? In high school Greek and Latin class.

[Rockphed]

I can confirm that legend speaks of the portal to The Far Realms known only as On'Tarri-O.

I know of this land. I could reach it by traveling through the City of the Narrow River, or across Bridge of Blue Water. Or I could journey past the island of many spellings and much fudge to the gate of Sue and Marie and seek passage. I hear you can also seek passage past the herds of bison by the decreed waters, but I have not tried that route in over a decade.

[Mith]

I know of this land. I could reach it by traveling through the City of the Narrow River, or across Bridge of Blue Water. Or I could journey past the island of many spellings and much fudge to the gate of Sue and Marie and seek passage. I hear you can also seek passage past the herds of bison by the decreed waters, but I have not tried that route in over a decade.

I now have Stan Rogers' Northwest Passage in my head from reading this.

[Jormengand]

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Speaking of Google, I had to "Google" the meaning of dipthong:

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Where and how are you guys learning this stuff?

My family are the kind of people who have this weird fetish for learning as much stuff, useful or otherwise, as possible, and I went to one of the best schools in the country, and I watch multiple TV shows dedicated to proving wrong everything you thought you knew. I don't actually recall which of those was most instrumental in my English tuition, though I know that in the case of German, my brother taught me about two years' worth in as many days, which says something about one of the best schools in the country, and something else entirely about my brother.