[PF] Pit Fighter PrC: requesting optimization input/feedback/discussion

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I've done some reading on the Pit Fighter PrC to see if anything interesting could be done with it since not a lot of guides even mentions it. However, I'm not much of a PF guru so I'd appreciate if someone who's familiar with the PrC could take a look and see if I've missed anything big. I've tried to do my homework and noted what has already been said on this forum, but please excuse me if I repeat something someone has already come up with without referring to them. (I guess you could call this a handbook, but I can't say I'm confident in giving people authoritative recommendations when it comes to PF.)

(Since this is my first post I can't link anything at the time of writing. Ask me to cite sources/clarify if something seems particularly weird.)

Preface

• This guide is aimed at people that are already pretty knowledgeable - preferably more so than myself. The PrC shares a lot of its basics with the Barbarian, so if you need a primer look up a guide for that class, e.g. Novawurmson's "Anger Management".
• I'll mention performance combat checks a lot, so to spare the typing they're abbreviated "PCC"/"PCCs".
• Due to the feat Awe-Inspiring Smash, I'm assuming you're dumping CHA in favor of STR for the purpose of PCC bonuses.
• I've tried to focus things which are beneficial to the Pit Fighter in particular, so you won't find e.g. Improved Initiative in the feat section or Reactionary in trait section since those are useful to most people. That doesn't necessarily mean they're not good for Pit Fighters.
• For the sake of not being overwhelmed I've mostly glossed over anything involving mental stats, non-full BAB (due to the scaling bonus to PCCs), lawful requirements and Finesse (STR > DEX will probably be the case due to Awe-Inspiring Smash). Anything interesting involving those subjects that I've missed would be particularly appreciated. (I've also chosen to ignore third-party material since those are far from certain to be allowed by GMs.)
• Finally, since this is about a particular class, I've mostly focused on getting all of its 10 levels ASAP, but good alternatives to that are certainly welcome.

PrC Breakdown

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Notable requirements: BAB 5, non-lawful, Dazzling Display, rage class feature/orc ferocity racial trait. (By RAW, (full-blooded) orcs and half-orcs with the racial trait orc atavism don't immediately qualify despite having actual ferocity.)

Main class aspects:

• Can benefit from performance feats more reliably than Performing Combatant via Showmanship. Showmanship is a swift action, which creates conflict with other abilities that would like to use the swift action/immediate action slot during the first round (including performance feats, although that can be fixed).
  
• Various feats and class features centered around dirty trick. This is tied to the other two aspects by the fact that any successful combat maneuver lets you do a PCC. Somewhat notably, Weapon Trick lets you deal damage with DT once per round but requires one free hand whenever you want to use it. This doesn't necessarily force you to fight one-handed all the time, since you could use two free actions to temporarily free up a hand. There's also Brutal Trick, which makes enemies provoke AoOs from you whenever they try to remove a DT condition.
  
• Can indefinitely (Greater) Rage & rage cycle, on the condition that you raise the crowd attitude sufficiently and then not reducing it. As another poster noted, improving crowd attitudes can be difficult:
  
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  I really like some of the mechanics and all of the flavor for the pathfinder prestige class Pit Fighter, but there is a large problem with it. The DC of the combat performance checks goes up at a rate equal to enemy Cr, the bonus you get from both your BAB and perform ranks put together only goes up at a rate equal to 1/2 your level.
  
  Does anyone know of how you're supposed to keep the other half of the level from. So far I have circlet of persuasion, your display feat, a performance weapon, and your base charisma modifier. So 7 + cha modifier. That is respectable but still leaves a fair margin of error on your character's central shtick, and drops by two any time you use a free or mandatory check. Are there any other ways to boost combat performance checks?

  
  This makes extra PCC bonuses worth considering, and it's something that will be addressed in the text. (Although really, like half of the work is just discovering that Awe-Inspiring Smash exists.)

(Also, a couple of class features requires a performance weapon to function.)

Performance Combat with Showmanship
(most people are only familiar with performance feats trough Performing Combatant, so this is a primer for the relevant parts)

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PCCs are CHA checks (or STR with Awe-Inspiring Smash). They get bonuses from your BAB & the single highest rank in Perform(act/comedy/dance) (having multiple Perform-skills doesn't help.) These two each give a +1 bonus at 1, which increments in the same pace as extra attacks from BAB do, capping at +4 with BAB/Perform rank 16.

I recommend Perform(Dance) since it is an (optional) requirement for Mocking Dance, and the only thing the alternatives has to exclusively offer is the feat Battle Cry for Perform(oratory), which seems pretty underwhelming to me. (As a bonus, Dance makes the most sense if you got high STR and low CHA due to Awe-Inspiring Smash.) Also, note that while the PrC has all the relevant Perform subtypes as class skills, this won't help you with PCCs since they're ability checks, not Perform skill checks. So unless you're moonlighting as a street dancer, the class skill bonus should be irrelevant. Since Perform is pretty useless outside of Showmanship, you might want to delay adding ranks to Perform for as long as possible so that you instead can get more mileage out of other skills/favored class HP bonuses at earlier levels, while still getting the PCC bonuses ASAP. For example, assuming two skill ranks per level:

Character Level	Perform Ranks
5	4
6 (PF 1)	6
7	6
8	6
9	8
10	10
11	11
12	11
13	11
14	12
15 (PF 10)	14
16+	16

(the benefit of this isn't huge, so just put in a rank at every level up until lvl 16 if you don't feel like bothering with the timing)

Whenever you pass a PCC, the crowd attitude is raised. The crowd attitude will only go lower if you fail the PCC by 5 or more, so with enough bonuses you shouldn't have to worry too much even if you don't always pass. Depending on the crowd attitude, you may get a mind-affecting +1/+2 morale bonus or -1/-2 penalty to attack rolls, combat maneuver checks, ability checks, skill checks, and saving throws. Staying away from a negative crowd attitude is important. It locks you out of Roar of the Crowd and can even impose the normal rage fatigue penalty on you. Furthermore, in a normal performance combat, someone who brings the crowd attitude below Hostile "automatically loses the performance part of the combat". It's ambiguous what this means for a Showmanship fight, but your DM might rule that you're unable to raise the attitude from Hostile for the rest of the fight and may even prohibit you from doing PCCs altogether.

Performance feats can normally only be applied to PCCs done as a swift action, which creates conflict with Showmanship. You'll want to grab Master Combat Performer ASAP which will let you apply performance feats to free action PCCs AND do swift action PCCs as free actions. (You can never apply performance feats to immediate action PCCs, so no using those on other people's turns.) Note that unlike with Performing Combatant, Showmanship lets you always benefit from performance feats applied to a PCC, regardless of whether you pass the check or not.

PCCs are triggered by particular events, as listed below. Note that these triggers are suppressed during invisibility/total cover/improved cover/total concealment (including mandatory ones, which is a bit of a silver lining).

PCC (free/swift/immediate action) triggers:

• Confirmed crit. Failure will never lower crowd attitude. Also, crit feats with special effects gives a +2 untyped bonus. I don't think you get more of these bonuses if you apply multiple crits feat trough e.g. Critical Mastery. Also, note that while e.g. traits and class features can also produce special effects on a crit, only feats gives the bonus.
• Being "the first person to damage an enemy during a performance combat". This gets a bit ambiguous with Showmanship: Is the start of the performance combat the start of the encounter, or the moment the Pit Fighter uses Showmanship? Anyway, getting high initiative might be extra good for this purpose.
• Entering a rage. Since Roar of the Crowd needs a good crowd attitude, you might want to burn a vanilla rage round to trigger this ASAP.
• Reducing a creature (including an ally by RAW!) to <= 0 hp.

PCC (swift action only) triggers:

• Hitting with a charge attack
• Successful feint/combat maneuver (doesn't have to be dirty trick)
• Knocking an opponent prone (although tripping is a combat maneuver, you won't get two consecutive PCCs out of it)
• Maximum weapon (or spell) damage roll. Light weapons gets a -4 penalty to the PCC, two-handed/exotic weapons gets a +2 circumstance bonus.
• Hitting with two or more attacks. Every successful attack beyond the second gives a stacking +2 untyped bonus to the PCC.
• "Flashy" fire/cold/electricity/acid/sonic/force effects. Merely hitting with a flaming weapon isn't enough, it needs to be a spell or something like flaming burst (which I don't recommend getting solely for this purpose, since crits already triggers PCCs and the burst won't give you a bonus).

(From the offensive nature of most/all of the above-mentioned triggers, I draw the conclusion that the Pit Fighter is more suited for a more aggressive playstyle.)

PCC (no action, mandatory) triggers: (never improves crowd attitude, failure always reduces crowd attitude)

• Using healing spells/magical effects/spell triggers/spell completion/active item (including potions!), whether on yourself or others. Being healed by others is OK.
• Natural 1 on attack roll/saving throw.
• Withdraw action. Also gives a -5 penalty on the PCC.

Performance weapons gives a +2 untyped bonuses on PCCs, but only on ones that were triggered by an attack/combat maneuver involving such a weapon.

If you would raise the crowd attitude past Helpful, you instead get a victory point to spend until the encounter ends. A victory point has the following uses: (see also the next section's take on the Fighter's Gladiator archetype)

• Automatically succeed at a PCC. Since you've already reached Helpful, this is mostly useful as a backup get-out-of-jail-free card in case you manage to lower the attitude again and need guaranteed access to Roar of the Crowd, particularly if some kind of newly imposed penalty like ability score damage has made it harder for you to pass PCCs.
• Make an immediate action PCC as no action. Since you can't use performance feats on other people's turns, this is mostly a niche alternative to the previous use, except you can do it on other people's turns without guarantees.
• Make a free action PCC as no action. This is even more niche, but I guess you could use it in case your DM is being restrictive when it comes to the number of free actions.

Things to ignore that are relevant to normal performance combat:

• Types of Performance Combat (the performance part ends when the encounter ends)
• Winner determination
• Variable Starting Attitude (always indifferent for you)
• PCC DC variables, including bribery & number of combatants (you only need to worry about the CR)
• Serialized Performance Combats (you can't carry over the effects of Showmanship to the next encounter)

(levels 1-5) Dipping Pre-Prc

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Barbarian

• VMC seems preferable, since it lets you get full scaling rage powers to go with indefinite rage while leaving open two character levels for other things. Furious Guardian/Ulfen Guard levels can potentially help with qualifications later on. (See next section.)
• In addition to their conventional uses, the following rage powers can all help with PCCs when necessary: Strength Surge (with Awe-Inspiring Smash), Auspicious Mark and Greater Celestial Blood.
• By RAW, it doesn't seem like Furious Mount and Furious Beast works with Roar of the Crowd. Even if they do, they still require rage roumds and will cease function as usual once you run out.
• The Unchained version seems overall inferior, due to the lack of STR bonus from rage to go with Awe-Inspiring Smash as well as the lack of reason to rage cycle.
• Titan Mauler provides the niche option of letting you use a two-handed weapon while still being able to free up a hand at will for Weapon Trick.
• Really gimmicky, but Pack Rager 7+ lets your allies benefit from teamwork feats indefinitely. (If this actually turns out to be powerful, I reserve the right to retroactively claim that I knew it was good all along.)

Fighter

• You'll want several feats before entering the PrC (especially if you're going for VMC Barbarian), so as usual this class is the go-to option for martial dipping.
• Gladiator gives a much larger selection of performance weapons and a free victory point which can be used to reliably and immediately improve crowd attitude. The fact that Gladiators can take performance feats as bonus feats shouldn't actually matter since all performance feats are also combat feats.

Cavalier

• Obviously, Order of the Cockatrice gives Dazzling Display without requiring Weapon Focus. While many performance feats requires DD, only Hero's Display among them requires WF, so skipping a feat tax this way doesn't compromise much immediately. (When you do want access to Hero's Display, consider buying a Cracked Opalescent White Pyramid Ioun Stone + a Wayfinder to get Weapon Focus without burning a proper feat slot on it. Do note however that buying non-perfect Ioun Stones might be something your DM dislikes.)
• I think the mount should be ignored since it will probably require both non-trivial feat investment and Cavalier 4 to be effective in the long run, and I feel those resources could be better used to improve the Pit Fighter's core features, especially since it's unclear how mount-centered rage powers interact with Roar of the Crowd. Could lead to some flavor problems though, seeing as you're supposed to have a deep connection to your mount. You could ask your GM to let you skip it entirely if it would make things too awkward.
• Challenge and tactician can probably be ignored since they cut into your action economy and need non-trivial Cavalier level investment to be effective.
• Gendarme can give you Power Attack (or Improved Bull Rush) for Awe-Insping Smash without burning a fighter feat on it. On the downside, since the archetype is supposed to ”[train] to be a mounted terror, almost to the exclusion of all other abilities”, mount-related flavor issues are exasperated.

Brawler: Martial Flexibility is particularly interesting for a Pit Fighter since it lets you pick a performance feat appropriate for the encounter.

Ranger/Slayer: The Menacing combat style can give you Dazzling Display directly alá Cavalier, but I feel that the other levels overall give benefits that are either underwhelming or cut into your action economy too much compared to Gendarme 1+2.

Bloodrager: Bloodrage doesn't count as Brb-rage for the purpose of prestige class qualification. Furthermore, even if you end up taking levels in both this and the Prc, you won't be able to Bloodrage indefinitely.

[Classess without full BAB]: Since BAB both helps qualifying for the PrC ASAP and gives bonuses to PCCs, I recommend ignoring these until character level 16 when the PCC bonus caps.

(If you neither want orc ferocity or a base class which gives the rage class feature, an alternative is Furious Guardian/Ulfen Guard 1 at character level 6, which is compact for what it gives compared to Barbarian 1+2 but delays entry into the main PrC a bit.)

(levels 16-20) Classes Post-Prc
(I'll focus on options where investing a limited amount of levels you have left still can count for something. All of the below options should be at least OK with one or two levels in them, so there's room to mix things up.)

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Brawler: More adaptable performance feats and better action economy via improved martial flexibility.

Fighter: More performance (or combat) feats. You could even go the distance with Fighter(Gladiator) 10/Pit Fighter 10 to get two victory points if you really want reliable crowd attitude boosting.

(Non-VMC) Barbarian: More rage powers and better rage power progression.

[Classes without full BAB]: These are OK now since BAB can't help you with PCCs any more. At this point I haven't given these much thought, but the ones that works as a Barbarian dip will probably work here as well.

Furious Guardian/Ulfen Guard

• Much like Barbarian, but can be combined with its VMC. By RAW, this means you can effectively count your Furious Guardian levels twice for the purpose rage power qualification, letting you pick up e.g. Come and Get Me at character level 18 with [Dip Classes] 5/Pit Fighter 10/Furious Guardian 3. However, your DM may chose to veto this interpretation, even though it's far from broken.
• Alternatives to more rage powers includes a single combat feat, Fast Movement in heavy armor, non-Roar of the Crowd rage as an immediate action and the ability to copy at least one allied teamwork feat during a rage.
• Aside from the above you also get a pseudo-slippery mind ability at class level 2.

Darechaser (Painful requirements, but bear with me...)

• Dare can be used with PCCs to add one or more d6s/d8s to help you pass. (Although since your character must scream out what they're daring to do during a rage, you might have to get creative with your RP, e.g. "I DARE MYSELF TO POSE IN A REALLY COOL WAY".)
• In addition, Adrenaline Rush gives a scaling +1 to +3 bonus to STR checks, which applies to PCCs with Awe-Inspiring Smash and can be effectively doubled with Diehard Performer if necessary.
• The class also solves its own potential fatigue issues with Daring Finish, while providing a diverse set of minor bonuses to chose from in the form of Adrenaline Deeds.

Living Monolith(ka stone)

• You get an enlarging effect that gives a +2 or +4 STR bonus, which helps with PCCs.
• Aside from that and the usual reach increase from being enlarged, the class also gives a lot of defensive goodies.
• However, the class has some downsides: First of all, it only gives full BAB when you're enlarged. Second, the enlarging effect can only be used three times a day, as opposed to Showmanship's max of four. Finally, the enlarging effect requires a swift action, which means you will have to go one full round without either a decent chunk of bonuses or performance-related stuff.

Sentinel, Chevalier, Pain Taster and/or Sanguine Angel: These don't directly synergize with Pit Fighter features (aside from some deities' Sentinel boons, see the Feats section) but they all work in line with the class more or less well.

(Other full BAB PrCs I've looked into are too passive/reactive to mesh with Pit Fighter features, have a lawful requirement and/or requires more than 5 class levels to be effective.)

Feats

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Master Combat Performer: Mandatory since it significantly improves your action economy by letting you activate showmanship and do a PCC with a performance feat on the same turn. In fact, it lets you use multiple performance feats on your turn, and since their effects stack with both each other and themselves, this can lead to some interesting combos. (This feat also gives proficiency with exotic performance weapons, which provides some options that might be interesting, e.g. hooked axe or scorpion whip.)

Awe-Inspiring Smash: Mandatory due to the aforementioned ability to dump CHA. It also encourages investment in bull rush/sunder as potential alternatives/complements to dirty trick, but you can afford to ignore this aspect if it doesn't interest you.

Hero's Display: On its own, this is little more than a more action economic Dazzling Display, and Master Combat Performer will just let you extend the duration of the shaken condition. However, with Soulless Gaze and another damnation feat, it can let you frighten or even panic multiple fear-susceptible enemies every round on your own. (Your DM might frown upon this, especially if there's an antipaladin in the party.) If you're going for this trick, you might want to delay getting Weapon Focus & HD until you have the two damnation feats. (On the other hand, you could take advantage of just the shaken condition with e.g. Shatter Defenses.)

Intimidating Prowess: Intimidate while still dumping CHA. If you want a primer on intimidation, you might want to check out "the Noble Art of Intimimancy", although it doesn't cover everything (a notable example of what it misses being Soulless Gaze). (Also, while the PrC requires Intimidate 5 and the shaken-inducing Dazzling Display, your not wasting much if you decide not to go for the intimidation route since no class features are directly fear-oriented.)

Murderer's Circle/Spectacular Exit: Not a fan of the Dodge (and DEX 15) requirement since I'd rather focus STR for PCCs and sufficiently raise CON for Raging Vitality, but the benefits are interesting.

Mocking Dance: A more restrictive yet also more accessible alternative to the above-mentioned two feats. I feel it's good to actually pick this feat in order to have a fairly versatile defensive backup option (instead of a withdraw action unless things are hairy), while using martial flexibility to pick appropriate offensive performance feats (e.g. Savage Display).

Performing Combatant: Lets your performance-related features be useful outside of showmanship encounters. PCC bonuses are particularly important here since you'd otherwise waste the action. Could retrain it when/if you feel like you have enough showmanship uses per day, but note that it's also an (optional) requirement for Master Combat Performer.

Masterful Display: Probably not worth it if you only have Mocking Dance + basic martial flexibility. Could be very interesting in higher levels if you have a larger selection of feats to combine repeatedly each turn.

Second Wind: For what it gives, the Endurance requirement is a bit of a bummer. Could be used to enable pseudo cycling of non-Roar of the Crow rage and/or Darechaser Adrenaline Rush I guess.

Leapfrog: Seems underwhelming. I guess you could use it to better avoid AoOs or something.

Black Powder Spectacle/Thrilling Vengeance/Ostentatious Weakness/Masterful Flourish: I feel these are a little too situational and/or class-specific for too little gain to warrant an investment. There are other ways to get (greater) bonuses to PCCs together with other benefits.

Deific Obedience(Gorum): Gives +4 to STR checks, which helps PCCs (with Awe-Inspiring Smash). The tier 1 & 3 Exalted boons are pretty nice (tier 2 seems a bit awkward to use on yourself as a standard action, but it does work with PCCs). Also, getting Sentinel boons via their corresponding prestige class or Diverse Obedience is worth considering.

Celestial Obedience(Arqueros): Same obedience bonus as Gorum, and the boons aren't bad either. (Ignore Mystery Cultist though.)

Deific Obedience(Minderhal): Just +1 to STR checks, and the Exalted boons are overall underwhelming. I guess you could take levels in Sentinel or even an Evangelist dip if you're into their boons, particularly either tier 3 which also gives some minor help to PCCs. (Diverse Obedience is a no-no due to alignment issues.)

Eldritch Heritage/Improved Eldritch Heritage/Greater Eldritch Heritage: This text has repeatedly mentioned dumping CHA. However, applying these feats to the Orc Bloodline gives you the option of starting with more CHA and less STR, with your investment eventually paying off in the form of a constant +6 inherent STR bonus. You also get to increase your size for another +6 STR bonus together with some defensive goodies for several minutes per day. The choice is yours whether the wait and feat tax is worth it. (Obviously, this is a bit less painful for races with a bonus to CHA.) If you want a slightly more short-term alternative, consider the Abyssal Bloodline. It gives the same constant STR bonus but has arguably a better associated skill and lvl 1 power, although in this case Greater Eldritch Heritage should be skipped since its improvement to summon spells isn't useful to you.

Raging Vitality: Even if you go unconscious, the crowd's attitude doesn't automatically drop, so you can still benefit from rage indefinitely and thus avoid SBDS. The only way you can be forced into a failing PCC while unconscious is by natural 1 on a save or managing to activate some kind of healing effect for yourself. (Being healed by others is still OK.)

[Other Critical Feats]: As mentioned, crits triggers PCCs, and critical feats with special effects gives you a bonus on those PCCs.

[Dirty trick feats]: If you're only picking up one of these, I recommend Dirty Trick Master. First of all, the PrC lets you (eventually) bypass the indirect feat tax imposed by Combat Expertise/Dirty Fighting that plagues the earlier members of its feat line. Second, since you're able to perform dirty trick maneuvers multiple times a turn, this feat will allow you to considerably hamper enemies. This can end up having game-breaking consequences similar to the above-mentioned use of Hero's Display (and your DM might not like this one either):

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No, it's using Dirty Trick Master and the dazing (or [removed hyperlink] nauseated) condition in a far more devastating manner. The combo's key components and mechanics are:

• Dirty Trick Master You can impose the [removed hyperlink] dazing or [removed hyperlink] nauseated condition on a foe you DT while it's still affected by the dazzled or sickened condition imposed by your previous DT. Both the dazing and nauseating condition prevents the affected creature from taking standard actions, which means it cannot remove the condition your DT imposed by taking a standard action. Which in turn means the foe typically cannot remove the condition or (if dazed) do anything at all before the DT duration expires, at least not without outside help which typically also steals enemy actions. (Very surprised the DT guide didn't mention this at all, despite being clearly spelled out in related RAW.)
• Kitsune Vengeance Allows you to replace AoO with DT attempt.
• AoO trigger combo Any combo which reliably allows you to make one or more AoOs against a target you've just successfully performed a DT against. This can for example be dirty trick with a Maelstrom Shield for a free trip, and Greater Trip and/or Vicious Stomp to immediately grant a second DT as an AoO. Or it could be Shield Slam/Giant Fist Gauntlets + Greater Bull Rush + Paired Opportunists or Unexpected Strike rage power, or Siegebreaker fighter 2 + Shield Slam/Giant Fist Gauntlets + Greater Overrun, or simply Pushing Assault + Unexpected Strike, or any one of several other combos having the same relevant effect.

(Note that Kitstune Vengeance requires you to activate its combat style as a swift action, which creates conflict with Showmanship.) If you need a primer on the maneuver, AncientSpark's "Try Fighting Without Pants! A Guide to Dirty Tricks" specifically deals with the dirty trick aspect of the PrC, although as implied in the quote, it overlooks some things.

Extra Rage Power: Supplements non-barbarian levels, particularly with VMC Barbarian. If it's good on Brb, it's probably good here, and rage powers have a reputation of being overall better than feats. However, keep in mind that you might run into trouble when it comes to progression, level requirements and the limited number of powers you can have compared to if you just went Barbarian 20.

Extra Rage and/or [Various rage-replenishing feats]: I don't think these are really necessary with indefinite rage, even if it's conditional. (If your GM lets you abuse Destroyer's Blessing you can probably ignore Roar of the Crowd altogether...)

Unhindering Shield/Shielded Gauntlet Master: If you really want to benefit from something in your off-hand while still being able to use Weapon Trick.

Iron Will: If you're dipping in a bunch of martial classes with a small rage pool to boot, your class bonuses to Will risks ending up small to non-existent early on. You could retrain this feat when things are a bit steadier.

Sample build (sloppily formatted)

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VMC Brb entry with focus on Rage Powers
1. Cavalier(Gendarme, Order of the Cockatrice) 1

• Power Attack
• Iron Will [if possible, retrain this to Raging Vitality at some point after lvl 3, when you qualify for that feat with VMC Rage]

2. Brawler 1
3. Fighter(Gladiator) 1, VMC Barbarian 1(Rage)

• Awe-Inspiring Smash

4. Fighter(Gladiator) 2

• Mocking Dance

5. Cavalier(Gendarme, Order of the Cockatrice) 2

• Performing Combatant OR Raging Vitality [if you're not allowed to retrain Iron Will, could delay it until lvl 9 though]

6. Pit Fighter 1
7. Pit Fighter 2, VMC Barbarian 2(Uncanny Dodge)
8. Pit Fighter 3
9. Pit Fighter 4

• Master Combat Performer OR Performing Combatant OR Raging Vitality [depends on lvl 5]

10. Pit Fighter 5
11. Pit Fighter 6, VMC Barbarian 3(Rage Power[Superstition])
12. Pit Fighter 7
13. Pit Fighter 8

• Extra Rage Power(Witch Hunter) OR Master Combat Performer

14. Pit Fighter 9
15. Pit Fighter 10, VMC Barbarian 4(DR 3/-)
16. Furious Guardian 1

• Guard Dedication(Rage Power[Spell Sunder])

17. Furious Guardian 2

• Extra Rage Power(Strength Surge)

18. Furious Guardian 3

• Guard Dedication(Rage Power[Eater of Magic])

19. Furious Guardian 4, VMC Barbarian 5(Greater Rage)
20. Furious Guardian 5

• Guard Dedication(Rage Power[Reckless Abandon])

(Could take Furious Guardian 1 at lvl 11 or even earlier for more immediate Rage Power gain, at the expense of e.g. delayed 3/day Showmanship.)

Again, mount/Gendarme flavor issues makes this build less elegant than I'd wish it would be. I guess in the right campaign it could be set up so that you're an Ulfen knight who's forced into gladiatorial slavery, with your horse dying and you not having the heart to ever replace it.

Items: I haven't been able to find much that's beneficial for Pit Fighters in particular. There's Gladiator's Sandals, but they only work during surprise rounds and even then you need to do a combat maneuver. Serpentine Tattoo triggers off performance weapons and adds an extra dirty trick, but requires the contested swift/immediate action slot to do so. Aside from that, the usual crit-fishing weapons are worth considering since they will generate more PCCs.

Spells: There's adoration, but it doesn't give you much. Also, since the flavor suggests that it's supposed to cause the target to be viewed more favorably by the crowd via a mind-affecting effect, your GM might rule that the virtual crowd from showmanship doesn't count. (I guess Pit Fighters can adore themselves though.)

Races
(Pretty much any race that works with Barbarian works with the PrC.)

• Half-orcs: While not bad, I feel orc ferocity is a bit off a trap, since properly having rage as a class feature gives you access to things like Extra Rage Power and Raging Vitality. Unless you for whatever reason don't feel like taking a level or more in Barbarian/Furious Guardian/Viking, you can just trade orc ferocity for e.g. sacred tatoo and then qualify the same way everyone else does.
• Humans: Good as usual, since you're quite dependent on skills (both for qualification purposes and to maintain a high PCC bonus from Perform) and feats.
• Aasimar: Also good as usual, with the niche option of being able to take Enlightened Warrior. Special mention goes to the Angel-Blooded variant with its +2 to STR & CHA for the purpose of Eldritch Heritage. (Although an Aasimar with the Abyssal Bloodline will probably end up a cliché.)

Traits

• Valknar Alumnus: Picking dirty trick as the chosen maneuver pretty much tailors this to the Pit Fighter, both mechanically and flavor-wise.
• [various crit traits]: Crits triggers PCCs, so these are worth considering.
• Bruising Intellect: See Intimidating Prowess.
• Enlightened Warrior: (Non-lawful monk levels.)
• [Various Will/mental effect save traits]: See Iron Will.

Hope I'm not being too much of a Captain Obvious here, would appreciate input.

[upho]

Thanks for this little guide!

The main thing I feel is missing are the key mechanical strengths of the Pit Fighter and the main reason for taking levels in it. I mean, you give a short summary of the most notable class features, but say very little about what they may achieve or which kind of character their combined mechanics might fit for. For example, outside of one or two noteworthy exceptions, I think performance combat is generally a focus with pretty weak mechanics and poor return on investments. But you say nothing about what the related options and class features may enable when combined, and thus give me little reason to consider this PrC for its performance combat related stuff. Similarly, while dirty trick is in many ways the best (and potentially even game-breaking) combat maneuver in the game and often the only one viable also in higher levels, you don't mention that, nor what the Pit Fighter offers which you don't get simply by taking related feats or what this allows for (more on this in spoiler below).

Let's say I've decided to play one of the recommended base classes (other than the gladiator fighter), what would levels in this PrC ultimately grant me that may be competitive with or superior to that which more levels in my base class grants?

Or what unique mechanical combos/effects may be enabled by the Pit Fighter?

Spoiler: Other comments/nitpicks/questions/recommendations

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Can benefit from performance feats more reliably than Performing Combatant via Showmanship.

Really? I very much doubt this is true for more than the first couple of PCCs in combat, and often not at all in more challenging encounters against more numerous opponents and/or during higher levels. Performing Combatant has a flat permanent DC of 20, while that of Showmanship increases with +5 per success, up to 15 + CR for the third and later checks, adding another +4 if the total number of combatants are 9 or more (which will pretty often be the case). So if you wanna get the most out of your performance combat feats in a CR 10 encounter, the DC will be higher than for Performing Combatant already for the third PCC, likely often happening in the first round. And in encounters with a higher CR or one including more than 8 combatants, the DC will even more quickly be above 20.

In addition, Showmanship eats your swift/immediate, which directly competes with the normal use of related feats without further investment, and many other abilities. And it's also limited to 1/per day at 6th character level and 2/day at 10th, which means you'll primarily want to use it in the most challenging encounters having relatively high PCC DCs.

I think it's one major advantage in comparison to Performing Combatant is that it grants performance combat morale bonuses. All things considered, I'd say it's a high risk/high reward ability in comparison to Performing Combatant during most levels, but still pretty weak unless you can reliably make every PCC you'll roll in every combat.

Can indefinitely (Greater) Rage & rage cycle, on the condition that you raise the crowd attitude sufficiently and then not lower it by avoiding failing PCCs by 5 or more. As another poster (nyarlathotep) noted, the DC to improve crowd attitudes can get relatively high. This makes extra PCC bonuses worth considering.

Hunting down PCC bonuses is definitely a top priority, I think. The question here is whether this is better than simply taking more levels in a rage granting base class. The indefinite quality has somewhat limited value, considering that a straight barb 10 would already have more than enough rage rounds to last through all combat rounds during most adventuring days, at least if not spending an unusual large amount on fueling rage powers. The same goes for the rage cycling.

Various feats and class features centered around dirty trick. Somewhat notably, Weapon Trick requires one free hand whenever you want to use it. Still, even if you care about that, you could use two free actions to temporarily wield your weapon with just one hand. (Also, note that the successful execution of any maneuver triggers a PCC.)

Interestingly, one of the "benefits" granted is "can use any weapon with the performance quality to perform a dirty trick combat maneuver", which you most often already can (somewhat subject to the player's creativity and GM judgement).

There are two noteworthy effects here IMO: dealing damage with DT 1/round at 3rd (min 8th character level) and enemy removing effect provoking AoO at 9th (min 14th character level). These may make it easier to pull off combos with things triggered by damage (like Cornugon Smash), and also to trigger Dirty Trick Master with Kitsune Vengeance, potentially taking more opponents out of the fight each round. However, neither of these features are actually needed to achieve these results, and you'd often anyways want to invest in stuff which make these benefits largely overkill once they come online. In addition, I think at least the two later bonus DT feats are granted way too late, requiring you to be in a game which allows for retraining in order not to be wasted or delay your full DT capacity for more than 4 levels.

Bloodrager: Since Bloodrage is (Su) and Roar of the Crowd is (Ex), I don't think you can combine them to benefit from bloodline powers indefinitely.

The (Su) designation doesn't matter, but you still cannot combine bloodrage with Roar of the Crowd since bloodrage is explicitly treated as rage only for the purpose of feats and items, not PrC prerequisites or features.

Hero's Display: I kinda dislike this since it requires the skippable Weapon Focus. If you're into intimidation you should probably still only get this performance feat via martial flexibility, so that you don't have a wasted feat while fighting zombies and other fear-immune things (anti-paladin teammates notwithstanding).

You can get WF along with any exotic weapon proficiency for a mere 2,000 gp by buying a cracked opalescent white pyramid ioun stone and put in a wayfinder. I actually find the Dazzling Display prereq much more annoying, considering it's pretty darn useless on its own and more costly/difficult to gain without paying a slot.

Much more importantly, Hero's Display is AFAIK by far the strongest performance combat feat, since combining it with Soulless Gaze and another damnation feat can allow you to panic every opponent within 30' in one round. With some supporting investments, this is in every round, in every fight, all day long, every day. So unless facing creatures immune to fear/mind-affecting, Hero's Display may basically grant you one of the most sure-fire and spammable "I win"-buttons in the game. This definitely deserves a mention, along with a warning.

Awe-Inspiring Smash: Aside from the mentioned ability to dump CHA, it also encourages investment in bull rush/sunder as potential alternatives/complements to dirty trick. Still, the feat is greatly worthwhile if you chose to ignore this secondary aspect.

Dip two levels of Siegebreaker fighter perhaps? Could get outright silly with the tons of AoOs (and DTs through Kitsune Tricks) this can enable if combined with various related overrun and bull rush feats. Anyways, I think this feat is mandatory considering the high PCC DCs and the fact that Str is the easiest and cheapest attack stat to boost and can get much higher than any other ability score.

Master Combat Performer: Seems pretty mandatory since it improves your action economy, e.g. by letting you activate showmanship and do a PCC with a performance feat in one go. You also get proficiency with exotic performance weapons, which provides some options that might be interesting, e.g. hooked axe. (It also gives you the niche option of using the Tactically Adapted weapon mod to add the performance quality to any weapon you'd like proficiency with but don't feel like spending a feat on.)

Definitely mandatory. But you still need a feat (Modified Weapon Proficiency or Weapon Adept) in order to wield a modified exotic weapon, since mods increase the category. And you already have proficiency with all martial weapons, so you wouldn't need to spend a feat on those anyways. So this benefit only makes it easier to add Performance to a martial weapon and then gain to proficiency with it (and maybe WF) through the aforementioned cheap ioun stone.

Performing Combatant: Lets your performance-related features be useful outside of showmanship encounters. PCC bonuses are particularly important here since you'd otherwise waste the action. Could retrain it when/if you feel like you have enough showmanship uses per day, but note that it's also an (optional) requirement for Master Combat Performer.

It's too bad Roar of the Crowd is limited to performance combats and thus when using Showmanship, otherwise this feat would've been absolutely golden. Still pretty mandatory IMO, considering the potentially awful DCs of Showmanship.

[Dirty trick feats]: AncientSpark's guide to dirty tricks is throughout about these and even specifically deals with the dirty trick aspect of the PrC.

Link? Would probably also be a good idea to link to the posts made by various users you refer to (grarrg etc).

Regardless, I really think it's worth highlighting Dirty Trick Master (and also to give a heads-up about its potentially game-breaking effects). Same goes for Kitsune Vengeance.

Extra Rage Power: Supplements non-barbarian levels, particularly with VMC Barbarian.

This is probably going to be one of the most attractive feats for more optimized builds. Stuff like Savage Dirty Trick and Spell Sunder are very strong and have potentially great synergy with the Pit Fighter.

Extra Rage and/or [Various rage-replenishing feats]: I dunno if these are really necessary with indefinite rage, even if it's conditional. You could take one of these early on to extend your small vanilla rage pool and then retrain it when you get indefinite rage at Pit Fighter 5. (If your GM lets you abuse Destroyer's Blessing, then you can probably skip the PrC altogether...)

Most likely not needed in most games IME, at least not by the time you have levels in Pit Fighter.

I'd also probably mention the Eldritch Heritage feats for the Orc bloodline, granting you up to +6 inherent and +6 size bonus to Str, along with Large size for up to a total of 17 minutes/day. Feat and Cha intensive though.

I think that's most of it, at least for now. Keep up the good work!

[Save-or-Love]

Thanks a lot for the feedback

Spoiler: Reply

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The main thing I feel is missing are the key mechanical strengths of the Pit Fighter and the main reason for taking levels in it. I mean, you give a short summary of the most notable class features, but say very little about what they may achieve or which kind of character their combined mechanics might fit for. For example, outside of one or two noteworthy exceptions, I think performance combat is generally a focus with pretty weak mechanics and poor return on investments. But you say nothing about what the related options and class features may enable when combined, and thus give me little reason to consider this PrC for its performance combat related stuff. Similarly, while dirty trick is in many ways the best (and potentially even game-breaking) combat maneuver in the game and often the only one viable also in higher levels, you don't mention that, nor what the Pit Fighter offers which you don't get simply by taking related feats or what this allows for (more on this in spoiler below).

Let's say I've decided to play one of the recommended base classes (other than the gladiator fighter), what would levels in this PrC ultimately grant me that may be competitive with or superior to that which more levels in my base class grants?

Or what unique mechanical combos/effects may be enabled by the Pit Fighter?

Honestly, I mostly did this write-up because while I lack much experience with the PrC, I thought both the flavor and the mechanics were pretty unique so I thought it deserved more attention, even if it's not terribly powerful. Furthermore, the material is actually aimed at people (like yourself) who's more knowledgeable than me, so things like dirty trick being versatile and powerful when backed up by feats is something I assume the reader would be familiar with. But this is fair criticism since the intended audience isn't obvious at all, so that's something I'll have to add to the preface. I'll also have to add some examples of plays that illustrate the PrC (either in the preface or later).

Really? I very much doubt this is true for more than the first couple of PCCs in combat, and often not at all in more challenging encounters against more numerous opponents and/or during higher levels. Performing Combatant has a flat permanent DC of 20, while that of Showmanship increases with +5 per success, up to 15 + CR for the third and later checks, adding another +4 if the total number of combatants are 9 or more (which will pretty often be the case). So if you wanna get the most out of your performance combat feats in a CR 10 encounter, the DC will be higher than for Performing Combatant already for the third PCC, likely often happening in the first round. And in encounters with a higher CR or one including more than 8 combatants, the DC will even more quickly be above 20.

I was under the impression that in actual performance combat (including via Showmanship), when using a performance feat during a PCC, you always gain the benefits of the feat regardless of whether you actually succeed at the check afterwards. Meanwhile, with Performing Combatant, you only gain the benefits if you first pass the check.

E.g. Mocking Dance:

When you spend a swift action to make a performance combat check, before making that check you can either move 5 feet without provoking attacks of opportunity, or you can move your speed and provoke attacks of opportunity. You cannot end this move in a space where you threaten an enemy. If you do move at least 5 feet, you gain a +2 bonus on the performance combat check.

Compare Performing Combatant:

You can make performance combat checks in any combat. When making a performance check outside of performance combat, you can pick a single performance feat to use. You automatically gain any bonus on the performance combat check the feat grants, and then you make a DC 20 performance combat check. On a success, you gain the full effect of the performance feat you chose.

In addition, Showmanship eats your swift/immediate, which directly competes with the normal use of related feats without further investment, and many other abilities.

Not to be unappreciative, but I did pretty much mention this in the preface. However, I guess I could point out earlier that e.g. Master Combat Performer can help alleviate the swift/immediate competition.

The indefinite quality has somewhat limited value, considering that a straight barb 10 would already have more than enough rage rounds to last through all combat rounds during most adventuring days, at least if not spending an unusual large amount on fueling rage powers. The same goes for the rage cycling.

I know, and I'm actually worried that it makes the PrC entirely redundant (sadly enough). In general, I feel that in DnD there's diminishing returns to increasing the number of uses a day to any given ability, because eventually your party is going to be forced to rest for the day because they've run low on HP. Still, my hopes with writing this was that it could lead to the community inventing something interesting to do with the PrC. I've tried to look for potential abuse in rage powers that requires rage rounds to function, but nothing has particularly stood out.

Link? Would probably also be a good idea to link to the posts made by various users you refer to (grarrg etc).

Am I even allowed to post non-hyperlinks when I've got less than 10 posts? I don't want to circumvent automatic forum moderation features. Anyway, the guide is called "Try Fighting Without Pants! A Guide to Dirty Tricks" and is linked in Zenith Games' "The Comprehensive Pathfinder Guides Guide". It comes to pretty much the same conclusions as you did about the DT feats coming together too late. (As some people has pointed out, it's a wide-spread problem that PrCs tend to spread its features over too many levels. I kinda wish the Pit Fighter was compressed to just 5 class levels.)

Regardless, I really think it's worth highlighting Dirty Trick Master (and also to give a heads-up about its potentially game-breaking effects). Same goes for Kitsune Vengeance.

I was actually thinking about doing that but I thought it would be redundant for people who have read AncientSpark's guide. Still, it won't take much space so I'll go ahead and do that. I think Dirty Trick Master alone is enough of a DT investment even if you're not focused on it. Also, could you elaborate on its "potentially game-breaking effects"? Is it that you can threaten to lock down an enemy by dazing them, while still dealing damage via e.g. Weapon Trick and Quick Trick?

You can get WF along with any exotic weapon proficiency for a mere 2,000 gp by buying a cracked opalescent white pyramid ioun stone and put in a wayfinder. I actually find the Dazzling Display prereq much more annoying, considering it's pretty darn useless on its own and more costly/difficult to gain without paying a slot.

Much more importantly, Hero's Display is AFAIK by far the strongest performance combat feat, since combining it with Soulless Gaze and another damnation feat can allow you to panic every opponent within 30' in one round. With some supporting investments, this is in every round, in every fight, all day long, every day. So unless facing creatures immune to fear/mind-affecting, Hero's Display may basically grant you one of the most sure-fire and spammable "I win"-buttons in the game. This definitely deserves a mention, along with a warning.

Thanks for pointing this out. When it comes to optimizing, I tend to be biased towards reductionism, so I ended up being a bit too mean towards WF.

I'd also probably mention the Eldritch Heritage feats for the [removed hyperlink] Orc bloodline, granting you up to +6 inherent and +6 size bonus to Str, along with Large size for up to a total of 17 minutes/day. Feat and Cha intensive though.

Fair enough. I'm aware of the feat's benefits, but my favor of reductionism made me set it aside due to the CHA requirement together with Awe-Inspiring Smash. I guess I can mention it in passing, especially since races with bonuses to CHA can make the prerequisites less painful. (I did consider the Draconic Bloodline since humans can cheat their way past the CHA, but I didn't find anything particularly attractive to warrant the feat intensity. Do tell if you disagree.)

Will update with your points in mind. If anyone else would like to help out I'd appreciate that as well.

Edit: Missed one part

But you still need a feat (Modified Weapon Proficiency or Weapon Adept) in order to wield a modified exotic weapon, since mods increase the category.

Oh, I thought you just didn't get proficiency with the modified exotic weapon but could still wield it? Will scratch that part if you're right, it's not important anyway.

[upho]

Thanks a lot for the feedback

You're welcome! And thank you! Guides are a good thing IMO, especially those looking at less obvious and niche options like this PrC, which can help people realize more character concepts without necessarily making the character feel like an under-achiever who can't carry its weight, mechanically speaking. And this guide seems to at the very least have the potential to become great.

Spoiler: Replies and More Ramblings

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Honestly, I mostly did this write-up because while I lack much experience with the PrC, I thought both the flavor and the mechanics were pretty unique so I thought it deserved more attention, even if it's not terribly powerful. Furthermore, the material is actually aimed at people (like yourself) who's more knowledgeable than me, so things like dirty trick being versatile and powerful when backed up by feats is something I assume the reader would be familiar with. But this is fair criticism since the intended audience isn't obvious at all, so that's something I'll have to add to the preface.

I think I get what you mean by your intended target audience. I just feel that since PF has such an enormous abundance of PC options, and it's near impossible for one person to keep track of all the possible reasonable or better combos, also otherwise very system-savvy people may very well not know about the potential of say performance combat and DT specifically. My impression is actually that very few do, as the more mechanically strong combos typically involve many components, quite a few of them also hidden among a lot of weak or even trap options.

I'll also have to add some examples of plays that illustrate the PrC (either in the preface or later).

This would probably be great, since the potential combos can get complicated fast, and their practical use and effects aren't necessarily obvious at all just from reading which components they include.

I was under the impression that in actual performance combat (including via Showmanship), when using a performance feat during a PCC, you always gain the benefits of the feat regardless of whether you actually succeed at the check afterwards. Meanwhile, with Performing Combatant, you only gain the benefits if you first pass the check.

Doh! You're absolutely right, my bad. I was somehow stuck thinking in terms of how Performing Combatant works since that's the mechanic I'm most familiar with, and didn't properly read up on the standard rules again. You should probably take this as a warning sign; my poor old brain may not necessarily have a clue of what I'm talking about, despite seeming (and myself believing) that it does...

Anywho, this does indeed make the Showmanship PCC DCs less of an issue than I claimed.

Not to be unappreciative, but I did pretty much mention this in the preface. However, I guess I could point out earlier that e.g. Master Combat Performer can help alleviate the swift/immediate competition.

And I have to apologize again, this time for my clumsy wording. My point was more that Showmanship eats an action you can normally only take once per round, and that there are of course plenty of stuff which may compete for that action (one of them being directly related to Showmanship). In more detail, I think this is more of a problem for abilities that you really want to activate as soon as combat starts, as the first round is typically the most important one. For example if you have a combat style feat chain, you'll also most likely want to enter its stance.

I know, and I'm actually worried that it makes the PrC entirely redundant (sadly enough). In general, I feel that in DnD there's diminishing returns to increasing the number of uses a day to any given ability, because eventually your party is going to be forced to rest for the day because they've run low on HP. Still, my hopes with writing this was that it could lead to the community inventing something interesting to do with the PrC. I've tried to look for potential abuse in rage powers that requires rage rounds to function, but nothing has particularly stood out.

I think that regarding RotC as the feature which makes or brakes the PrC's usefulness may perhaps be a mistake in the case of most Pit Fighter builds. At least before the possibilities of the other class features have been properly examined and evaluated.

When it comes to expensive rage powers, I'd say the mount/companion ones you've touched upon stand out since you typically want them active in every round, meaning they basically cut your normal number of rage rounds in half. AFAIK, most other options are unlikely to require as many rounds during a day and/or are simply too situational to be worth it IMO.

And speaking of Furious Mount/Companion:

If a character is currently in a rage from the Pit Fighter's Roar of the Crowd class feature, yet has no normal rage rounds left, can they still let their mount/animal companion benefit from Furious Mount/Furious Beast?

RAW, no. This is because these rage powers require you to be able to spend more than one rage round each round, and RotC only lets you rage during a round when certain conditions are met (it cannot give you an actual pool of rage rounds unless you have other abilities which grants you rage rounds). In addition, you have to be raging yourself in order to spend the additional rage round to have your companion/mount rage, and RotC grants you specifically the ability to enter/stay in rage. So you cannot pass up on the rage round granted by RotC and give it to your companion/mount instead. Relevant RAW (my emphasis):

Ferocious Mount: "While raging and mounted, the barbarian’s mount also gains the benefits of rage (including greater rage and mighty rage) as long as the barbarian is mounted or adjacent to it. While her mount is raging in this way, she must spend one additional round of rage per round."

Roar of the Crowd: "When fighting a performance combat, the pit fighter can enter a rage (as per the barbarian class ability) during any round in which the crowd’s attitude toward him is helpful." /snip/ "The pit fighter can maintain his rage each round so long as the crowd’s attitude toward him remains helpful. If the crowd’s attitude ever drops below helpful, the pit fighter’s rage immediately ends..."

Am I even allowed to post non-hyperlinks when I've got less than 10 posts? I don't want to circumvent automatic forum moderation features.

Oh, I didn't realize. And no, you shouldn't. I guess you'll have to find a reason to write a few more posts!

Anyway, the guide is called "Try Fighting Without Pants! A Guide to Dirty Tricks" and is linked in Zenith Games' "The Comprehensive Pathfinder Guides Guide". It comes to pretty much the same conclusions as you did about the DT feats coming together too late. (As some people has pointed out, it's a wide-spread problem that PrCs tend to spread its features over too many levels. I kinda wish the Pit Fighter was compressed to just 5 class levels.)

Thanks!

*Goes off to read up on pants-less fighting...*

Back!

I was actually thinking about doing that but I thought it would be redundant for people who have read AncientSpark's guide.

I was a bit surprised, but the author actually completely missed the far strongest DT feat combo (see below), despite reviewing (and sometimes vastly underestimating) its key components. So I really think you should mention that specifically, in addition to giving a link to the guide once you're able to.

Still, it won't take much space so I'll go ahead and do that. I think Dirty Trick Master alone is enough of a DT investment even if you're not focused on it.

Indeed. (Again, see below.)

Also, could you elaborate on its "potentially game-breaking effects"? Is it that you can threaten to lock down an enemy by dazing them, while still dealing damage via e.g. Weapon Trick and Quick Trick?

No, it's using Dirty Trick Master and the dazing (or nauseated) condition in a far more devastating manner. The combo's key components and mechanics are:

• Dirty Trick Master You can impose the dazing or nauseated condition on a foe you DT while it's still affected by the dazzled or sickened condition imposed by your previous DT. Both the dazing and nauseating condition prevents the affected creature from taking standard actions, which means it cannot remove the condition your DT imposed by taking a standard action. Which in turn means the foe typically cannot remove the condition or (if dazed) do anything at all before the DT duration expires, at least not without outside help which typically also steals enemy actions. (Very surprised the DT guide didn't mention this at all, despite being clearly spelled out in related RAW.)
• Kitsune Vengeance Allows you to replace AoO with DT attempt.
• AoO trigger combo Any combo which reliably allows you to make one or more AoOs against a target you've just successfully performed a DT against. This can for example be dirty trick with a Maelstrom Shield for a free trip, and Greater Trip and/or Vicious Stomp to immediately grant a second DT as an AoO. Or it could be Shield Slam/Giant Fist Gauntlets + Greater Bull Rush + Paired Opportunists or Unexpected Strike rage power, or Siegebreaker fighter 2 + Shield Slam/Giant Fist Gauntlets + Greater Overrun, or simply Pushing Assault + Unexpected Strike, or any one of several other combos having the same relevant effect.

The end result is that during each round, you can completely remove at least one enemy in melee reach from combat for an average of at the very least 2.5 rounds. Not only can this be made ridiculously effective against virtually all enemies, especially if combined with a boosted reach and a high DT CMB, but it may also give your party plenty of time to take affected enemies as prisoners (with all the potential advantages that entails) instead of killing them.

Thanks for pointing this out. When it comes to optimizing, I tend to be biased towards reductionism, so I ended up being a bit too mean towards WF.

Well, as long as you hold on to that reductionist mindset even if it sometimes may cause you to overlook some possibilities; I believe it's more or less required when optimizing melee.

Fair enough. I'm aware of the feat's benefits, but my favor of reductionism made me set it aside due to the CHA requirement together with Awe-Inspiring Smash. I guess I can mention it in passing, especially since races with bonuses to CHA can make the prerequisites less painful. (I did consider the Draconic Bloodline since humans can cheat their way past the CHA, but I didn't find anything particularly attractive to warrant the feat intensity. Do tell if you disagree.)

Nah, actually I don't disagree, considering how damn feat starved Pit Fighter builds are doomed to be anyways. It was just a thought because it's one of the most significant Str bonuses generally available to non-casters in the game.

Oh, I thought you just didn't get proficiency with the modified exotic weapon but could still wield it? Will scratch that part if you're right, it's not important anyway.

Sorry, I meant to say you cannot wield it without penalties. Which to me seems to make modded exotic weapons rather bad choices, but modded martial ones potentially very good (if combined with mentioned ioun stone for EWP). EDIT: Actually, it says outright that you cannot wield a modified exotic weapon unless you have the relevant Modified Weapon Proficiency or Weapon Adept feat. Meaning the Tactically Adaptive mod unfortunately cannot save you a feat slot if you want to wield an exotic weapon. And a modded martial weapon would of course not require EWP, since you're already proficient in all weapons with the performance feature. /EDIT

If a character both has VMC Barbarian 11 and levels in Furious Guardian/Ulfen Guard, can they count their Furious Guardian levels twice for the purpose of qualifying for rage powers? (For example, Come and Get Me has a barbarian level requirement of 12, which means that with just VMC Barbarian you'd need a character level of 24 to qualify, but with Furious Guardian 2 and a character level of 20 you'd be OK.)

AFAICT strictly according to RAW, yes. Though in an actual game, this seems like something that may often be viewed as not RAI and therefore disallowed by the GM, even though it's actually not at all OP when combined with the Pit Fighter. BTW, the same issue can come from levels in the Evangelist PrC and features which are improved by taking levels also in other classes (for example, a monk 2/Evangelist 10 with Monastic Legacy would have an unarmed strike damage die as if a 17th level monk).

[Save-or-Love]

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I think I get what you mean by your intended target audience. I just feel that since PF has such an enormous abundance of PC options, and it's near impossible for one person to keep track of all the possible reasonable or better combos, also otherwise very system-savvy people may very well not know about the potential of say performance combat and DT specifically.

Yes. While I still don't feel confident enough to give universal advice, I can at least mention guides which gives people an OK view of things, e.g. the "Anger Management" barbarian guide since there's a lot of overlap between that class and then PrC when it comes to the basics. When I get my link privileges I'll decorate the guide with proper hyperlinks. (I don't feel like frivolously just for that.) However, when it comes to performance combat specifically, I think I'll add a section for how it applies to the PrC since it's something I've already analyzed on as part the work and due to how rarely it seems to be used in campaigns.

And I have to apologize again, this time for my clumsy wording. My point was more that Showmanship eats an action you can normally only take once per round, and that there are of course plenty of stuff which may compete for that action (one of them being directly related to Showmanship). In more detail, I think this is more of a problem for abilities that you really want to activate as soon as combat starts, as the first round is typically the most important one. For example if you have a combat style feat chain, you'll also most likely want to enter its stance.

I actually gave your statement some thought later on, and came to the conclusion that it does need to be stressed more, especially since I'm recommending Living Monolith levels which requires a swift action to activate a sizeable chunk of features, including full BAB.

No, it's using Dirty Trick Master and the dazing (or nauseated) condition in a far more devastating manner. The combo's key components and mechanics are:
/.../

Yes, I figured it was something like that. Since I'm not overly familiar with the combos I will probably end up quoting you directly.

Aside from that, I'll add answers to the two addressed RAW uncertainties, warnings on potential sources of RAI/GM conflicts, plus a quick overview of Eldritch Heritage, pointing out that it's basically an investment were you give up some STR early on for more later.


Unless someone else comes with significant input, I plan on updating the guide next weekend. Thanks again for your time & thought.

[Save-or-Love]

Updated a bit past my own deadline. Biggest change is a section on performance combat, but I've added some other stuff and changed some of the previous wording. Not everything is done, most notably I need to add a Combo section and some more motivation for what makes the class stand out, but I think each of those requires a bit more work. Feedback would once again be appreciated.

A couple of things I've been thinking about that weren't mentioned in the update:

• How does a Siege Breaker dip synergize with the class? It doesn't seem to have any features that directly interact with dirty trick/AoOs Never mind, re-read my own post
• Would a ranged build be as suboptimal as a ranged barbarian?