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2017-09-15, 11:57 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2007
Hexblade build- to Polearm Mastery or not (Quarterstaff Only)?
After getting over my cursebringer sour grapes, I decided to start building a Hexblade to see how useful/strong it would be. Pact of the Blade, uses melee and falls back on EB for range.
After going through 95% of the way I want the build to go, I was considering his main weapon. At first I thought the longsword would be a no brainer, going Variant Human for Lucky or Blade Mastery. However, after looking at the math at higher levels, I'm not considering Quarterstaff/Polearm Mastery.
The biggest drawback with it is that it requires a bonus action to use though, which negates a lot of the options I had planned with Hexblade. So my question is... which would be better in the long run? The weapon average damage only factors slightly into this, since the bonus attack from PM's base damage equals out.
Pros of Polearm Mastery:
1) 3rd Attack at level 12 with Lifedrinker, making most melee attack actions (1d8+5+5+1d6)*2+1d4+5+5+1d6 per round, before smites, not factoring in specific magic weapons, providing average DPR of 52 as well as Hexblade Curse damage and crit threat occurring one additional time. Compare this to 38 DPR from a two handed longsword attack.
2) Opportunity attacks when enemies enter threat range, allowing for additional 1d8+5+5+1d6+Hexblade Curse damage. Could apply Sentinel as well for extra tactical control.
Drawbacks:
1) Extra feat required to make use. 2 feats if using Sentinel options.
2) Many Warlock/Hexblade abilities also use Bonus Actions, negating third attack somewhat regularly. Examples- Hexblade's Curse, Maddening Hex, Relentless Hex, Hex spell.
So I guess the question is whether or not it's worth it, and if so, when? Obviously Polearm gets the best boost once it can add in Lifedrinker damage, but even taken at first level it's useful for boosting your damage.
If anyone has other considerations I'm missing, please feel free to add those as well.Last edited by Mikal; 2017-09-18 at 09:47 AM.
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2017-09-18, 07:20 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2007
Re: Hexblade build- to Polearm Mastery or not?
bumping to 1st again
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2017-09-18, 07:47 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2015
Re: Hexblade build- to Polearm Mastery or not?
I'm in a similar situation myself. I'm also on the fence about getting PAM. In my case I can turn my pact weapon into the staff and its a special magic weapon that deals 3d6 poison damage per hit on top of weapon damage.
The way I see it I can get both an extra bonus attack each round plus the free occasional opportunity attack. At level 12 this will be even more damage. Not counting 1 to 2 more chances of getting a critical hit with a 19-20 threat range. Plus smites. Which I can't remember if I can smite on another person's turn or not. If so even better.
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2017-09-18, 07:56 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2007
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2017-09-18, 08:44 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2016
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2017-09-18, 08:48 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2014
Re: Hexblade build- to Polearm Mastery or not?
I recommend PM.
- Can use a quarterstaff as your arcane focus
- Can wield a magical staff with spells in it as a melee weapon, meaning you won't need to draw it to use it
- SAD means your eldritch blast and similar are just as effective. If you take warcaster and repelling blast with PM, you can potentially blast dangerous foes back ten feet for stepping into range...or just hit them with a weapon cantrip.
Quarterstaff on a Hexblade just works.Breaking BM: Revised - an updated look at the beast-mounted halfling ranger based on the Revised Ranger: Beast Conclave.
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2017-09-18, 08:55 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2007
Re: Hexblade build- to Polearm Mastery or not?
2d6+10+1d4+5 physical (additional 12-18 physical if target has Hexblade's Curse applied) (additional 3-9 if using a magic weapon)
3d6+15 Necrotic (Hex+Life Drinker)
9d6 Poison
6d8-18d8 Force (Depending on how many smites used. All 5th level due to Warlock spell slots when Lifedrinker comes online)
130-199 damage average before immunity/resistance. Note high end damage does require the use of 3-4 spells though, so you likely won't be doing it often.
vs.
2d8+10 physical (additional 8-12 Hexblade's curse) (additional 2-6 if using magic weapon)
2d6+10 Necrotic (Hex+Life Drinker)
6d6 Poison
6d8-12d8 Force (Smites)
101-129 damage. Note high end damage does require the use of 3-4 spells.
Yup. With the 3d6 Poison the extra attack from PAM is really a no-brainer.
Yeah, leaning that way too. But when to fire it up?
If V-Human, obviously take PAM with the 1st feat, but Sentinel- Around 12? Charisma to 20 would take precedence over Sentinel I think.
If a Half-Elf or non V-Human, do you delay Cha to 20 instead and take PAM at 4? I would guess so.
And do you drop Maddening Hex? You lose out on some small burst range damage, but it does make it more worthwhile for PAM bonus attacks, though you reliably won't get to use them until at least round 3 (round 1- HB Curse, Round 2- Hex)Last edited by Mikal; 2017-09-18 at 09:13 AM.
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2017-09-18, 09:06 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2015
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Re: Hexblade build- to Polearm Mastery or not?
I'm not 100% certain how many other Bonus Action features a Hexblade Warlock otherwise has, but if there's even one that they can (and would) use every turn, especially if it's without a short/long rest limit, I'd advise against PM.
Please be mindful of what you say in public; sadly not all can handle sarcasm or The Internet Credibility.
My Homebrew:
Base Class: Warlord | Roguish Archetype: Inquisitor | Roguish Archetype: Thug | Primal Path: Rage Mage
Ongoing game & character:
Sajan Uttam, human Monk 6/Fist of Irori 3 (Legacy of Fire)
D&D/Pathfinder CV of sorts
3.0 since 2002
3.5 since 2003
4e since 2008
Pathfinder 1e since 2008
5e since 2014
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2017-09-18, 09:12 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2007
Re: Hexblade build- to Polearm Mastery or not?
The main ones would either be casting the Hex spell itself, Shadow Hound placement, or using Hexblade's Curse and invocations that ride it (Relentless for short range teleport, Maddening for very minor burst damage). So in short, almost all Hexblade features either require a bonus action, or key off another feature that requires a bonus action.
Except for the Hound, half are once per fight, one is situational and very small damage (5 max), and one would likely be used only if your target somehow got out of range even with Sentinel. And the Hound wouldn't be very often either, potentially less than Relentless Hex.Last edited by Mikal; 2017-09-18 at 09:15 AM.
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2017-09-18, 09:17 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2015
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Re: Hexblade build- to Polearm Mastery or not?
Hex is a good spell, but as you get higher in levels there is usually a better option for your concentration.
If you take PAM just don't take the invocations that do damage on a bonus action. There are plenty of options.
Since your PAM attack requires the attack action your basic strategy should be cast a concentration spell on round one and curse a target as a bonus action. From there on you can engage in attack and bonus action attack. The curse moves for free when you kill things and there is no reason to fiddle with hex.
To sum up I'd not take PAM until level 8+ unless you are a variant human.Want to Multiclass? I wrote the book on it:http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...classing-Guide
Expect advice on the optimization rules you are breaking: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...r-Optimization
I am an avid optimizer and love to give fire to the people... So long as they are restrained first so they have disadvantage on their dex saves.
Feel free to PM me for one on one build advice.
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2017-09-18, 09:45 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2017
Re: Hexblade build- to Polearm Mastery or not?
I tend to go with a 1 handed weapon to use CHA for everything, i built my Fallen Aasimar Hexblade to be a semi durable frontliner with sword and shield ( got to 19 CA with half plate and shield ).
a PAM hexblade will probably do more damage in the long run but I like the ability to dump all stats besides CHA and CON
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2017-09-18, 09:46 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2007
Re: Hexblade build- to Polearm Mastery or not?
That does bring up an interesting question- is it worth it at lower levels to GFB/Booming Blade then, knowing you'll be supplanting it with actual attacks in 5 levels?
This discussion is specifically with using PAM and a quarterstaff. Since it's versatile, you can still use CHA! Edited title thread to clarify, sorry.Last edited by Mikal; 2017-09-18 at 09:54 AM.
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2017-09-18, 09:47 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2017
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2017-09-18, 09:49 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2007
Re: Hexblade build- to Polearm Mastery or not?
Last edited by Mikal; 2017-09-18 at 09:49 AM.
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2017-09-18, 10:00 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2015
Re: Hexblade build- to Polearm Mastery or not (Quarterstaff Only)?
You get an extra bonus with PAM. Since there's much less point casting hex, you don't necessarily cast it. That effectively doubles (from 1 to 2!) the number of spell slots you have in any given fight.
I just wanted to throw that consideration into the mix. Hex is great of course, and central to warlock mechanics. But PAM and lifedrinker kind of replaces it much of the time, leaving the spell slot free to counterspell with (or whatever). You could even load up a different concentration spell to use once in a while.
I don't think you really need sentinel if you're going with a staff. The main trick with sentinel and polearms is preventing people from reaching you, and you won't have reach anyway.Last edited by Mandragola; 2017-09-18 at 10:06 AM.
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2017-09-18, 10:16 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2007
Re: Hexblade build- to Polearm Mastery or not (Quarterstaff Only)?
Sentinel does a lot with Quarterstaves. For me it's less about keeping people away, and more about keeping your victims there...
1) OA attacks make the target's speed become 0.
2) With PAM and Sentinel you get an OA when someone enters *or* attempts to leave your reach without using teleport or similar magic (so potentially 2 attacks in 1 round per enemy who does this if you can get tunnel fighter). Or are a swashbuckler, I guess.
3) Reaction attack if someone in 5 feet of you attacks someone else.
Sure it's not as wide ranging as an actual reach weapon, but it does essentially make your focused target (who should also be Cursed) unable to escape your wrath without using magic.
In addition, starting at level 12 they get a 50% miss chance when attacking you if Cursed. And if they do hit you with a melee weapon and you have AoA up that's 30 cold damage, plus a potential 6d10 fire damage if you decide to use Hellish Rebuke as a reaction regardless of what attack is used to damage you.
If they do escape, then you forced them to blow a resource to do so instead of just walking away.
All-in-all, for your focused target, not a very good day.
Does bring up an interesting point though- I was thinking of MCing into Sorcerer for extra spell slots after 14th, but now I might just go fighter 1 after the level I take Sentinel for tunnel fighter to remove the reaction restriction.Last edited by Mikal; 2017-09-18 at 10:49 AM.
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2017-09-18, 12:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2015
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2017-09-18, 12:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2015
Re: Hexblade build- to Polearm Mastery or not (Quarterstaff Only)?
My original plan was to grab 3 levels minimum of Sea Sorcerer to extend my Eldritch Blast-Grasp of Hadar to 25 feet. Pull an enemy up to 25 closer to me with a Quickened Eldritch Blast with the Grasp of Hadar invocation and then use my 2 attacks on him. With smites if I need to. I still plan on doing this on my next level up.
I burned my 8th level feat to get Warcaster and will have to wait until 4 more levels to get PAM or see if I can trade the feat out. Which I haven't used Warcaster yet so I might be able to. If I don't have Warcaster though I can't cast spells with somatic components while using my shield too.
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2017-09-18, 02:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2007
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2017-09-19, 06:26 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2015
Re: Hexblade build- to Polearm Mastery or not (Quarterstaff Only)?
So has there been any clarity on letting you change the form a magical pact blade takes? I thought it stayed as whatever weapon it was to start with.
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2017-09-19, 07:02 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2015
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Re: Hexblade build- to Polearm Mastery or not (Quarterstaff Only)?
Myeah, the feature in the book says nothing about a bound weapon becoming "malleable". You either make the pact weapon out of thin air when it can take the form of any melee weapon as you wish, OR you can bind a magic weapon to become your pact weapon. The bound weapon does not change size, shape, or type when you dismiss and summon it back. It's always the same as it was before binding it. Allowing it's form to be changed is very liberal way of reading the feature. Or at best, wishful thinking.
Last edited by Arkhios; 2017-09-19 at 07:04 AM.
Please be mindful of what you say in public; sadly not all can handle sarcasm or The Internet Credibility.
My Homebrew:
Base Class: Warlord | Roguish Archetype: Inquisitor | Roguish Archetype: Thug | Primal Path: Rage Mage
Ongoing game & character:
Sajan Uttam, human Monk 6/Fist of Irori 3 (Legacy of Fire)
D&D/Pathfinder CV of sorts
3.0 since 2002
3.5 since 2003
4e since 2008
Pathfinder 1e since 2008
5e since 2014
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2017-09-19, 07:03 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2015
Re: Hexblade build- to Polearm Mastery or not (Quarterstaff Only)?
Yeah , there was a Sage Advice tweet about it. If you have an already magical weapon, you can do your bonding ritual with it and when you summon it, you can choose the form it takes and become proficient with it. The Sage Advice even stated you can turn it into a ranged weapon.
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2017-09-19, 07:04 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2015
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- Finland
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Re: Hexblade build- to Polearm Mastery or not (Quarterstaff Only)?
Last edited by Arkhios; 2017-09-19 at 07:13 AM.
Please be mindful of what you say in public; sadly not all can handle sarcasm or The Internet Credibility.
My Homebrew:
Base Class: Warlord | Roguish Archetype: Inquisitor | Roguish Archetype: Thug | Primal Path: Rage Mage
Ongoing game & character:
Sajan Uttam, human Monk 6/Fist of Irori 3 (Legacy of Fire)
D&D/Pathfinder CV of sorts
3.0 since 2002
3.5 since 2003
4e since 2008
Pathfinder 1e since 2008
5e since 2014
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2017-09-19, 07:11 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2015
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2017-09-19, 07:13 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2015
- Location
- Finland
- Gender
Re: Hexblade build- to Polearm Mastery or not (Quarterstaff Only)?
Please be mindful of what you say in public; sadly not all can handle sarcasm or The Internet Credibility.
My Homebrew:
Base Class: Warlord | Roguish Archetype: Inquisitor | Roguish Archetype: Thug | Primal Path: Rage Mage
Ongoing game & character:
Sajan Uttam, human Monk 6/Fist of Irori 3 (Legacy of Fire)
D&D/Pathfinder CV of sorts
3.0 since 2002
3.5 since 2003
4e since 2008
Pathfinder 1e since 2008
5e since 2014
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2017-09-19, 07:33 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2015
Re: Hexblade build- to Polearm Mastery or not (Quarterstaff Only)?
Thanks for linking that. Still can't figure out how to do that.
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2017-09-19, 09:22 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2015
Re: Hexblade build- to Polearm Mastery or not (Quarterstaff Only)?
Ok that was my interpretation as well. You can create any weapon you want, but that's not at all the same thing as changing the shape of an existing weapon.
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2017-09-19, 12:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2014
Re: Hexblade build- to Polearm Mastery or not (Quarterstaff Only)?
With the limitation that it must be a melee weapon. The most common ruling I've seen is that the Warlock is limited to melee weapons that appear on the weapons table in the PHB. It's a shame, since a Warlock who summons and throws a conjured shield would be quite
Americancool.Breaking BM: Revised - an updated look at the beast-mounted halfling ranger based on the Revised Ranger: Beast Conclave.