wish ideas

[Zhentarim]

if one bound an efreeti, could one of the wishes be to create an NPC cloned ally of yourself?
could you ask for a bonus feat?
inherent ability bonus?

What are some ideas that aren't game breaking?

[rferries]

Cloned NPC - simply duplicating simulacrum, so should be fine. (would only be a half-strength copy of yourself though, and since the efreet would be the real controller you'd never know if you could fully trust it...)

Bonus feat - a dark blue ioun stone is a slotless item that grants a bonus feat (Alertness). Wish covers items up to 25,000 gp so should be fine to get a stone that grants a feat of your choice (assuming all feats are created equal, of course...)

Inherent ability bonus - yes, by RAW

The trick is to always think of how the efreet could possibly twist the wish. I myself would be tempted to exchange all the wishes in exchange for the efreet's service a la a ring of djinni summoning. Better to have a straightforward servant (even if only for limited times per day) than open-ended wishes, IMHO.

[Crake]

Cloned NPC - simply duplicating simulacrum, so should be fine. (would only be a half-strength copy of yourself though, and since the efreet would be the real controller you'd never know if you could fully trust it...)

Bonus feat - a dark blue ioun stone is a slotless item that grants a bonus feat (Alertness). Wish covers items up to 25,000 gp so should be fine to get a stone that grants a feat of your choice (assuming all feats are created equal, of course...)

Inherent ability bonus - yes, by RAW

The trick is to always think of how the efreet could possibly twist the wish. I myself would be tempted to exchange all the wishes in exchange for the efreet's service a la a ring of djinni summoning. Better to have a straightforward servant (even if only for limited times per day) than open-ended wishes, IMHO.

Very true. The "safe list" for wish is only when you are casting wish. If someone else is casting wish, then they have control over how the wish is granted. For example, if you wish to be stronger with the intent of getting an inherent ability bonus to strength, the efreeti might simply cast bull's strength on you by duplicating a spell with his wish.

[rferries]

Very true. The "safe list" for wish is only when you are casting wish. If someone else is casting wish, then they have control over how the wish is granted. For example, if you wish to be stronger with the intent of getting an inherent ability bonus to strength, the efreeti might simply cast bull's strength on you by duplicating a spell with his wish.

Or turn you INTO a bull, haha!

[Zhentarim]

So wording needs to be very exact.

Like, duplicate mage's replendant mansion.

[rferries]

So wording needs to be very exact.

Like, duplicate mage's replendant mansion.

No that's asking for trouble! As a 9th-level spell it falls beyond the normal power limit of a wish, which is exactly the sort of opening an efreet needs to manipulate the wish against you. Wishing for a mage's magnificent mansion (7th-level) is safer.

[Mr Adventurer]

When we defeated a Glabrezu in combat, we took its Wish and used it to help us with something we didn't already know the answer to. I.e. we said "we wish to be transported to the best place for us to learn about the <specific Elder Evil BBEG>". Worked out pretty well.

[DeTess]

When we defeated a Glabrezu in combat, we took its Wish and used it to help us with something we didn't already know the answer to. I.e. we said "we wish to be transported to the best place for us to learn about the <specific Elder Evil BBEG>". Worked out pretty well.

Depending on the style of game and dm, this can work pretty well. It can also, at least in theory, end with the entire party standing in front of said elder evil.

In reality, what is safe and what isn't really depends more on the style of game and the dm than anything else.

[Mr Adventurer]

We were planning on "best place for us" to cover a lot of ground. We were also cocky :).

[DeTess]

We were planning on "best place for us" to cover a lot of ground. We were also cocky :).

If I got a wish like that in a game set-up to be player vs. DM, rather than DM withplayers (I don't generally DM that way, but I've had one or two one-offs that where intentionally set up that way), I could have interpreted 'best place for the players to learn about X' to be the place where they could learn the most in the least amount of time, and being placed right in front of X is a pretty efficient way of learning.

Still, in a game where the DM and players are telling the story together, it's a pretty safe use, as this teleport after beating a tough fight would just be another step in the protagonists journey, and a rather nice way for them to get access to the obscure knowledge that they need. As I said before, safe uses really depend more on whether the DM is trying to screw over the players or not, than on the specific wish or the wording of said wish.

[rferries]

If I got a wish like that in a game set-up to be player vs. DM, rather than DM withplayers (I don't generally DM that way, but I've had one or two one-offs that where intentionally set up that way), I could have interpreted 'best place for the players to learn about X' to be the place where they could learn the most in the least amount of time, and being placed right in front of X is a pretty efficient way of learning.

Still, in a game where the DM and players are telling the story together, it's a pretty safe use, as this teleport after beating a tough fight would just be another step in the protagonists journey, and a rather nice way for them to get access to the obscure knowledge that they need. As I said before, safe uses really depend more on whether the DM is trying to screw over the players or not, than on the specific wish or the wording of said wish.

Yeah the collaborative playstyle is the best. Plus the wish wasn't very greedy ("we wish for the power to overthrow and replace the BBEG") so the players were behaving themselves too.

[rel]

The key to getting the efreet to cooperate is the planar binding spell which, once a bargain is struck, compells loyalty.

A deal I like to go for (once you have prepared a circle and bound an efreet) is: give me wishes and I'll boost all my stats by +3 AND all of your stats by +3.

It is cool, it is a nice power boost but ultimately it changes very little. Stat boosts are not going to break the game.

[Crake]

The key to getting the efreet to cooperate is the planar binding spell which, once a bargain is struck, compells loyalty.

A deal I like to go for (once you have prepared a circle and bound an efreet) is: give me wishes and I'll boost all my stats by +3 AND all of your stats by +3.

It is cool, it is a nice power boost but ultimately it changes very little. Stat boosts are not going to break the game.

Efreeti resent being trapped and compelled into service, planar binding will do little to deter them from manipulating your wishes, and neither will offering them something in return for the wishes. Honestly, if you want to make a deal with an efreeti, getting one by name, contacting it before hand and organizing a meet-up rather than wrenching it from whatever it was currently doing for your own personal reasons. Planar binding is basically a one-stop method for losing the respect of most of the creatures you're going to bind unless you agree on it beforehand. Compelling a service doesn't mean they like you all of a sudden, and planar binding itself even says that cunning creatures will find a way to subvert and manipulate your request.

[ZamielVanWeber]

Bonus feat - a dark blue ioun stone is a slotless item that grants a bonus feat (Alertness). Wish covers items up to 25,000 gp so should be fine to get a stone that grants a feat of your choice (assuming all feats are created equal, of course...)

In 3.0 magic items had a gold limit. In 3.5 Wish instead costs additional exp equal to twice the cost to craft the item (ex: an item costing 50 exp to craft normally would cost 5100 exp to create with Wish). If you somehow negate the exp component things get silly.

[ExLibrisMortis]

In magic items, bonus feats are valued at 10 000 gp + 5000 to 10 000 gp per prerequisite, as per the Arms & Equipment Guide (page 128), unless they grant a bonus that can be valued using basic magic item guidelines. Great Fortitude, for example, grants +2 FORT, which is valued at 2000 gp (a cloak of resistance +2 costs 4000 gp), plus some adjustment for being a typeless bonus; the suggestion is either doubling or tripling the cost. As a point of comparison, Iron Will is valued at 3000 gp in Complete Scoundrel, as are various Skill Focus feats, Extend Rage, Tactile Trapsmith, and so forth. Overall, it's probably reasonable to put the cheapest feats at 2000 gp (+2/+2 feats), and the most expensive feats at 20 000 gp, regardless of prerequisites. Weapon Supremacy doesn't really need to be more expensive than Persistent Spell.

[Bronk]

In 3.0 magic items had a gold limit. In 3.5 Wish instead costs additional exp equal to twice the cost to craft the item (ex: an item costing 50 exp to craft normally would cost 5100 exp to create with Wish). If you somehow negate the exp component things get silly.

In this case though, the wish is 'supernatural', so all XP requirements are already negated. The wish could cover any magic item at all, no matter how expensive.

At that point, your left to figure out what constitutes a wishable magic item... something listed in a book, for sure, but do you include custom items? And if so, how does that interact with the other safe wish, 'improve a magic item'?

[ZamielVanWeber]

In this case though, the wish is 'supernatural', so all XP requirements are already negated. The wish could cover any magic item at all, no matter how expensive.

Spell-like ability in the OP but same difference here.l; spell-like abilities lack components unless they explicitly say otherwise.

At that point, your left to figure out what constitutes a wishable magic item... something listed in a book, for sure, but do you include custom items? And if so, how does that interact with the other safe wish, 'improve a magic item'?

If you are going the massive supply of wishes route (which is high PO/TO) I would recommend starting by grabbing luckblades, rings of three wishes, or scrolls with just a ton of wishes on them. Since their EXP cost had already been paid by RAW you can just go hog wild with the safe options just so long as you make sure to keep a good supply of items that grant you more wishes at all times.

As for custom items they are still magic items. The procedure would be: first you assemble your proposed item; second you submit your design for approval to the DM; third the DM assigns the price (be warned that the guidelines in the DMG are helpful suggestions, not hard rules; finally you ignore that last step and wish the item into existence at no relevant cost to you.

[rel]

Efreeti resent being trapped and compelled into service, planar binding will do little to deter them from manipulating your wishes

The knowledge that you can drag them across the planes any time you like is what deters the bound outsider from messing you around.
Also, the planar binding compels adherence to whatever the agreement is and a wizard can boost the skill check to write a good contract to superhuman levels.

Remember, a planar binding is not a meeting of equals, the wizard has drawn an outsider weaker than themselves into a trap and unless said wizard is incompetent can casually execute the outsider if it doesn't cooperate.

The smart efreet takes the deal and walks away stronger. The stupid efreet winds up dead and its carcass is used to forge a simulacrum.

[Vaern]

Wish for a magical item that will give you a +15 competence bonus to profession (lawyer), especially if for some reason you decided not to take the skill set character creation.

You can then use that massive skill bonus to write up lengthy contracts detailing the exact parameters of your future wishes. Be sure to include a refund clause in the fine print stating that you shall have at least one hour after receiving your wish to demand a repair and replacement wish should the efreeti corrupt your wish beyond the parameters specified in the contract. Then summon a devil to review and cosign the contract with you making you an accomplice to something akin to a Pact Insidious, voiding any benefits you are to grant the efreeti (his freedom) should break his side of the pact by corrupting a wish and refusing to grant a refund.
At this point, you should be able to resume your wishes with relative safety.

[weckar]

Bonus feat - a dark blue ioun stone is a slotless item that grants a bonus feat (Alertness). Wish covers items up to 25,000 gp so should be fine to get a stone that grants a feat of your choice (assuming all feats are created equal, of course...)

They are not. I am currently lacking my source list, but pricing for feats is... complicated. It mostly depends on the prereqs for the feat.

[Zhentarim]

What about using a wish to become exactly the same, except fine?

[Vaern]

What about using a wish to become exactly the same, except fine?

You might end up being very small, or you might end up with a dapper mustache wearing a top hat and a monocle... or you might end up exactly the same, except chained up and teleported into a giant alchemist's laboratory - directly into his mortar and pestle - where you'll only have to wait a short while to be ground into a fine paste.

[rel]

wish for a scroll of polymorph any object and pick out an appropriate fine monster.

Ultimately it comes down to what your game is about. If the players (GM is one too) have agreed to play 'wish abuse the lawyering' then twisting a wish is fine since the bulk of the gameplay presumably involves writing airtight contracts, mitigating potential misfortune results, dealing with the wish granting outsiders union, trying to get invited to the sorcerer kings soiree and so forth.

If your game is not about lawyering wish then twisting a wish is not helpful since there is a good chance that some of the players are at the table for gameplay not involving contract writing and would rather you just get a cool bonus then get back to whatever the game is actually about (maybe fighting monsters or exploring dungeons or something).

[rferries]

I would be hesitant to get too clever with planar binding and wish contracts. Your DM might let you get away with it... but then again, Inevitables advanced to epic CR might show up to punish you for trying to warp reality so much.

[rel]

Again, if all the players have agreed that the game is not about wish abuse then reigning someone in is best done by out of game conversation.

In game consequences encourage more precautions which take more time at the table and push the game further towards wishes the lawyering