Monk/Lock advice?

[Provo]

Didn't want to derail the monk/rogue thread.

I am making a Monk for an AL game, but I have never played one before. I am wondering what the benefit is of a multiclass with Warlock?

I know the shadow monk, devil sight combo. Is there anything else? Is hex good, or does it just clog your bonus action (and concentration). Is Warlock a terrible choice with different monk subtypes?

If I did go shadow monk/Warlock, what level would I want to multiclass?

[Dalebert]

There are probably countless ways to enhance monks with a small dip in another class. I find the top two levels of monk to be unimpressive. The capstone is an absolute joke. Being delayed a couple of levels is a little frustrating. I'd be very reluctant to dip more than 2 levels though because Empty Body is just SO good.

I just made a monk of the long hand with a two level dip in moon druid. There's a whole thread on the many benefits, the primary one being survivability but there's a lot of flexibility and utility as well. The TL;DR version: you only get a few CR 1 forms but the monk abilities enhance them as you advance in monk allowing them to continue to be useful.

I would take a look at what you get at level two from different classes and see if it synergizes well with monk and also if it inspires interesting character concepts. I decided my monk/druid comes from a small coven of monks, druids, and monk/druids that are a bit obsessed with death. They're connection to nature is more like that of scientists studying life and its decline and doing experiments than with nurturing it and thus they're scorned and ostracized by most druids. When he wildshapes it's painful and gorey. Imagine the movie The Thing.

[Citan]

There are probably countless ways to enhance monks with a small dip in another class. I find the top two levels of monk to be unimpressive. The capstone is an absolute joke. Being delayed a couple of levels is a little frustrating. I'd be very reluctant to dip more than 2 levels though because Empty Body is just SO good.

Yeah, being able to activate Empty Body in any and every fight really is an absolute joke... XD

Didn't want to derail the monk/rogue thread.

I am making a Monk for an AL game, but I have never played one before. I am wondering what the benefit is of a multiclass with Warlock?

I know the shadow monk, devil sight combo. Is there anything else? Is hex good, or does it just clog your bonus action (and concentration). Is Warlock a terrible choice with different monk subtypes?

If I did go shadow monk/Warlock, what level would I want to multiclass?

Warlock can always be a great choice with any Monk archetype, it just depends on what you want from it and how high you want to go.
Just one level for Hex is really good, potentially even more for other Monks than Shadow in fact, because other Monks don't have anything to do with concentration (except mid/high level 4E).

2 levels can grant you permanent Mage Armor (great for Shadow Monk who usually uses most Ki on non-WIS abilities, so can bump DEX first), free tools (magic detection, disguise) or extra skills, and another short-rest slot.

3 levels can give you either a familiar with Chain (great for scouting ahead, can provide magic resistance) or a bunch of useful cantrips and rituals to greatly expand your versatility with Tome.
Plus Mirror Image, which obviously synergize with a Monk as a DEX-in-essence class. And Misty Step (great for any Monk except Shadow) or Darkness (same) or Invisibility (same).

[Joe the Rat]

Unless you have the points to spread around (i.e. be a squishy half-elf), don't over-invest in CHA, and keep warlock as a buff/booster.

1) At least Monk 2 first.

2) Hex is useful. casting and moving uses your BA, but it is going to be comparable to your martial arts, and saves a point of ki from flurry. It can compensate for early delayed progression, but turns you into a power hitter rather than a flurry hitter.

3) Booming Blade is tempting, but will interfere with your attacks. You can't martial arts or flurry off of it. But you can still use your other options. This can be helpful pre Monk-6, where magic attacks are not guaranteed. You may get more mileage out of ranged cantrips.

4) Fiend, Frost, and Fiendish Vigor: You aren't supposed to be a front-liner, but you may find yourself squishy. You have a few options for temp HP - Fiendish Vigor is most reliable. Fiend patron is cheapest (have patron, kill stuff), but will be the smallest boost. Armor of Agathys makes you punishing to attack, but won't be over 10hp unless you start moving towards 'lock with some monk.

5) Consider utility - what can the Warlock give you that you can't otherwise have as a monk? If you aren't going pocket blaster (the traditional lvl 2, eldritch blast, agonize and/or repel), you have free pick of invocation options. Minor illusion? at-will disguise self? quite handy! For a theme selection, consider going Eyelock. Devil's Sight (good for non shadowmonks without darkvision too!), Eldritch Sight (at will detect magic, it's not like you're concentrating on anything), Eyes of the Runekeeper (read EVERYTHING - and this can be a useful trait in AL games), or Gaze of Two Minds (be the relay for the scout). Pick 2.

Patrons:
Fiend gives you a thp bump for being a stone cold killer, and a couple of spell options (command, scorching ray).
Archfey: Probably the best one-level dip: Hex is solid, but Faerie Fire makes everybody your friend. The Patron feature is okay - good for scaring/impressing mooks/locals.
Old One: 30' Broadcast Telepath. Grab Mage Hand and Friendship, and try to get a Light saber Sunblade. You'll probably have to trade for it.
Undying (SCAG): I would sooooo add this to a long death monk for thematic reasons. I think this doubles-down on spare the dying, however.

Pacts:
So you went to 3 levels, eh? Welcome to level 2 slots. AoA gets frostier, plus you get fun options like Mirror Image and Misty Step. Spider climb looks fun, but once you hit Monk 9 is only good for dancing on the ceiling.
Chain Pact has a loooot going for it. You have a high quality travel buddy, who can scout, and the really cool options can turn invisible. I find Imp has great all-around utility: flight, invisibility, the ability to turn into thematic animals.
Blade Pact: You can pull a katana out of your coat, no matter how inapproriately sized it is. Unless you need a magic weapon, pass.
Tome Pact: This is a high utility pick: go get all the utility cantrips. Magic Stone would give you a better ranged attack than those stupid darts, without having to lug a bow around. Guidance, Spare the dying (if not covered elsewhere), Move earth (or any of the other elementals) - all handy. This might be a good one to swap an invo for Book of Ancient Secrets - there's a lot of level 1 rituals to be had, and no guarantee you'll get someone with Alarm or Identify at the table. Plus Detect Magic if you haven't queued that up in your eyesockets.

[Provo]

Citan - Thanks for the breakdown. You gave me a few ideas I hadn't considered. Now I need to decide if really want shadow or long death.

Dalebert - I didn't notice how nice the monk/Druid combo was. It is looking pretty awesome now (particularly with long death archetype). Some of the arguments are irrelevant for AL, as I have no reason to build with lvl 20 in mind (I will hit 12 or 13 max). Even then, it is a pretty cool combo though.

[Citan]

Magic Stone would give you a better ranged attack than those stupid darts, without having to lug a bow around.

Very good advice overall, except this one: as a Monk, you can use DEX with every monk weapon: so besides daggers, if you really want a slightly better range (30/120 instead of 20/60), just carry some javelins. ;=)

Citan - Thanks for the breakdown. You gave me a few ideas I hadn't considered. Now I need to decide if really want shadow or long death.

Dalebert - I didn't notice how nice the monk/Druid combo was. It is looking pretty awesome now (particularly with long death archetype). Some of the arguments are irrelevant for AL, as I have no reason to build with lvl 20 in mind (I will hit 12 or 13 max). Even then, it is a pretty cool combo though.

Yeah, even without following the specific build from Dalebert, Druid (particularly Land for a "normal" Monk) brings many great things to the table. :)
Just a single level, paired with Warlock's short-rest 1st level slots, could greatly help you, between Healing Words, Lonstrider, Fog Cloud, Speak with Animals or even (with good WIS) Entangle, Earth Tremor (EE spell), Thunderwave.
2nd level Druid spells also give many great things for any Monk, whether high WIS or not: Enhance Ability, Mirror Image and Misty Step (Coast), Spike Growth, Heat Metal, Hold Person, Dust Devil (EE), Pass Without Trace, Flaming Sphere, Moonbeam...
And since it depends on the same stat, it's not like it would make it MADder (well, not more depending on WIS than a plain monk anyways). ^^

[Dalebert]

2 levels can grant you permanent Mage Armor

Sorry, Mage Armor on a monk? Most monks are going to start with at least a 16 wisdom which would make it useless. At worst, a few monks might start with 14 but even then it's only getting you +1 AC. I think you can do better with your invocation slot than +1 AC.

[Specter]

It is good, especially for Hex and Dark One's blessing, but I personally don't think it's worth investing in CHA when you already need to boost 3 stats (and possibly feats). Some great and less costly dips are:

1) Fighter: Dueling will give you +2 dmg on your main attacks if you use a sword, and Second Wind is bonus healing. Action Surge speaks for itself.
2) Ranger: Dueling like Fighter, plus an extra skill and Hunter's Mark.
3) Rogue: extra skill, expertise, Sneak Attack and Cunning Action so you don't need to use ki to dash or disengage

[Citan]

Sorry, Mage Armor on a monk? Most monks are going to start with at least a 16 wisdom which would make it useless. At worst, a few monks might start with 14 but even then it's only getting you +1 AC. I think you can do better with your invocation slot than +1 AC.

Sorry, but you clearly missed the point.
I was talking about Mage Armor. You know, the thing which makes your armor rely solely on DEX. Which is, incidentally, the most primary stat a majority of Monks could want.

Sure, a classic Monk wants to maximize DEX and WIS, mainly because his party expects him to use Stunning Strike. Plus there are archetype features that rely on WIS too.

The actual order of WIS/DEX upgrade though? Depends very much on character focus and chosen archetype:
An Open Hand Monk who wants to use his level 3 ability and has a Cleric that can Bless him will certainly boost WIS first.
A Long Death Monk may want to boost DEX first to trigger THP more often, while another may prioritize WIS because his party likes him to use his Fear.
A 4E Monk may bump WIS first because he likes using ki on Burning Hands, while another may instead blow Ki on Fire Snake and thus favor DEX first.
A Sun Soul Monk may bump DEX first for the radiant ranged attack, while another bets on upcoming Burning Hands.
Which brings us to Shadow: absolutely NONE of his archetype features depends on WIS. So the only feature relying on WIS is Stunning Strike. Moreover, his level 3 feature all consume a significant Ki for the level, so until you get level 8 you may not use Stunning Strike that often.

Plus, for any Monk, the Ki that you have to use to protect yourself by avoiding OA (Disengage), moving to safety (Dash) or evade attacks (Dodge), or dishing out extra damage (Flurry of Blows -especially on Open Hand).
Which is often needed at low level because you don't have that good of an AC.

And it's even worse in multiclass, in which you have to delay Monk levels (so even more to wait to get more ki) and often a net loss in available ASI as well as starting stats.

For a Shadow Monk / Warlock, which will...
- have increased MADness so increased difficulty to have good DEX and WIS (unless good rolls)
- have little Ki for a long time (because obviously you want Warlock levels early) and yet so many abilities relying on it...
- And can bump damage with Hex and defense with Mirror Image... Completely ditching Stunning Strike (thus WIS) to instead rack on DEX, at least in the first half of your career, is the sanest choice.

If you completely ditch WIS (so 13-14 WIS for whole life), this frees up some space for a better array of stats:
- either making your spells better if you go high in Warlock, ex: Half-Elf: STR 8 / DEX 16 / CON 14 / INT 8 / WIS 13 / CHA 16
- or enhancing your Constitution for general resilience, ex Wood Elf:
STR 9 / DEX 16 / CON 14 / INT 8 / WIS 14 / CHA 14.

In fact, starting with 16 WIS would require sacrifice on other stats to still keep all requirements, especially CON, meaning in turn using more Ki on Dodge. ^^

Even if you still want high WIS in the end, it doesn't make sense to boost WIS before you get Stunning Strike and a decent Ki pool to go with, which should arrive around character level 8-9.

In both cases, bumping DEX with your first ASI is the logical choice, and maybe also on the second ASI depending on end goal.
If you go Monk 1 > Warlock 2 (Hex more or less compensates the Extra Attack delay), you immediately get a +1 or +2 boost to AC (10+3+1 or 2 > 13+3). At character level 6 (Monk 4), you gain another point: now AC 17.

In the long run, there is indeed no difference with a pure Monk that would priorize on DEX. But at low levels where surviving is hard, a +1 AC makes a difference. :)

You could even "dump" both WIS and CHA to minimum requirement (13) and instead start with 17 in DEX and 15 in CON (ex: Wood Elf: 8/17/15/8/13/13), then bump both by 1 with first ASI. In this case, the difference in survivability is much more significant (immediate +2 AC boost, compared to pure Monk of same level), while not making any real difference at that level in the way you fight, compared to the previous exemple (you probably wouldn't use offensive spells anyways with 14 CHA, and as said you wouldn't get Stunning Strike before char level 7-8 either).

Only real drawback is if you limit Warlock to 3 levels at most, meaning Invocations choice are set in stone, while bumping Dex to 16+: in that case, Mage Armor would become useless in the second half of your progression. But since it made it possible for you to survive so far in the first place, that may be acceptable. ;)

[Dalebert]

After that long explanation, you still concede having 14 wis minimum. So as I said, you're getting at most +1 AC from that invocation slot.

In the case of only dipping two levels warlock, you still want wis to be at least secondary and in most cases from race choice you can still (and should still) have a 16 starting wisdom. Most viable race is half-elf for this combo unless you want another for flavor and you can easily have 16 dex, 16, wis, 14 cha.

On a sidenote, I'm not a fan of it in general, not even for pure warlocks. They too are only getting +1 AC since they can wear studded leather. Wizards are the ones who need it because they can't wear armor. About the only time it makes sense is for Abjuration wizards who dip two levels lock specifically for an at-will abjuration spell.

[Provo]

It is good, especially for Hex and Dark One's blessing, but I personally don't think it's worth investing in CHA when you already need to boost 3 stats (and possibly feats). Some great and less costly dips are:

1) Fighter: Dueling will give you +2 dmg on your main attacks if you use a sword, and Second Wind is bonus healing. Action Surge speaks for itself.
2) Ranger: Dueling like Fighter, plus an extra skill and Hunter's Mark.
3) Rogue: extra skill, expertise, Sneak Attack and Cunning Action so you don't need to use ki to dash or disengage

I agree on rogue and fighter being great dips, but I'm not so sure about a ranger dip compared to Warlock.

At level two, Warlock gets the same amount of slots as Ranger 2 but on a short rest cooldown. This plays to the monk's strength as a short rest class.

Then there are two invocations. I would think one invocation is roughly comparable to one fighting style for a monk. (None of the styles are too strong for monk).

The second invocation could make up for the MADness. Unlimited false life for instance can make up for the loss of constitution.

[Citan]

After that long explanation, you still concede having 14 wis minimum. So as I said, you're getting at most +1 AC from that invocation slot.

In the case of only dipping two levels warlock, you still want wis to be at least secondary and in most cases from race choice you can still (and should still) have a 16 starting wisdom. Most viable race is half-elf for this combo unless you want another for flavor and you can easily have 16 dex, 16, wis, 14 cha.

On a sidenote, I'm not a fan of it in general, not even for pure warlocks. They too are only getting +1 AC since they can wear studded leather. Wizards are the ones who need it because they can't wear armor. About the only time it makes sense is for Abjuration wizards who dip two levels lock specifically for an at-will abjuration spell.

It's funny how you only take what goes in your way.
I gave several builds to compare because, contrarily to others, I'm open to adverse opinions. ;)
Remember the build when you start with 17 DEX and 15 CON and immediately bump it on first ASI? That's a +2 >+3 difference in AC with Mage Armor, and a +5 difference in HP.
I said you *may* want to keep a starting 14 WIS, but that's only because of saving throws. You won't use it *at all* before getting Stunning Strike. And depending on your final split, you may never use Stunning Strike at all: it's not like there are not many other great things to use Ki on.

If you go only 2 levels in Warlock, sure, you won't want high CHA and you will start with 14 WIS and CHA. Taking Mage Armor Invocation is not the best choice here simply because there are other invocations that will stay relevant for your whole life.
If you go 3 levels, it becomes arguable because it starts to feel in progression, and it may make a difference in your low level survival.
If you go as high as 5 levels in the final build, it's an excellent choice because you can swap it later if it becomes useless.

As for pure Warlock, it's exactly the same: taking it at low levels boosts survivability by a decent amount compared to normal light armor, and you can just swap as soon as you got the best light armor (or took a feat/multiclass to get medium armor instead).

[Dr. Cliché]

Is Hexblade/Monk worth considering?

I know the Monk doesn't benefit from the armour proficiencies and such, but I was wondering if Hexblade's Curse might make up for it?

[Specter]

I agree on rogue and fighter being great dips, but I'm not so sure about a ranger dip compared to Warlock.

At level two, Warlock gets the same amount of slots as Ranger 2 but on a short rest cooldown. This plays to the monk's strength as a short rest class.

Then there are two invocations. I would think one invocation is roughly comparable to one fighting style for a monk. (None of the styles are too strong for monk).

The second invocation could make up for the MADness. Unlimited false life for instance can make up for the loss of constitution.

If you want sustained damage for a Monk, then you do want Dueling. It's +4 every turn, always. Any non-sustained damage has to be at least three times as good to measure up.

About the invocations, sure, we could estimate how much they're worth. But with CHA involved, you have to spend at least 5 points of stats in stuff that you be better used elsewhere. Unless you have something unique you want from Warlock (like Devil's Sight), then you won't regret not going down that road.

[Citan]

Is Hexblade/Monk worth considering?

I know the Monk doesn't benefit from the armour proficiencies and such, but I was wondering if Hexblade's Curse might make up for it?

Oh yeah, totally. If you can afford the CHA and UA is allowed, go for it, it's stupidly good. Plus you can even still stack a buff onto it since it's a feature, not a spell.
So you can be a normal Monk, a better Monk by investing first bonus action (Hexblade: +proficiency, crit on 19, THP on kill), and a heavy hitter monk by investing another bonus action next round (Hex +1d8). Add to this the fact that you can also put him at disadvantage against STR or DEX checks, meaning Shove/Grapple is even easier for you, and you now can realize how good it is. ;)

Hexblade is honestly OP for a 1st level benefit, should be level 6 at least (or just one benefit at first level, more later, or much slower scale). ^^

[Asmotherion]

Didn't want to derail the monk/rogue thread.

I am making a Monk for an AL game, but I have never played one before. I am wondering what the benefit is of a multiclass with Warlock?

I know the shadow monk, devil sight combo. Is there anything else? Is hex good, or does it just clog your bonus action (and concentration). Is Warlock a terrible choice with different monk subtypes?

If I did go shadow monk/Warlock, what level would I want to multiclass?

You definitelly won't clog your bonus Action, as your Hex needs a single Bonus action per target, the rest being free for your monk abilities. The bonus damage on the other hand is totally worth it.

What you gain:

-A good ranged damage option, when melee is not a good idea or not an option. Wile a rare case, due to your short range teleport, you might come up against an enemy that damages everyone in melee wile you're at low HP, or at a long range and a gap you can't teleport across... Eldritch Blast saves you from standing there doing nothing.

-Hex is a good damage buff both melee and ranged. You have other options for your concentration slot ofcource.

-Armor of Agathys; depending of how deep you dip Warlock, it's always good to have extra (temporary) hp when you melee... especially when they require no concentration, and they punish anyone who deals damage to you. The higher spell slots you have, the more it's worth it.

-Hellish Rebuke: Punish someone who hits you even more. If you only Dip Warlock 2, don't Bother taking it though. It's better to save a spell slot for something else.

PS: Oh, if Hexblade is allowed, definitelly go for it. Both amazingly good and thematic for a Shadow Monk

[Provo]

One more question. Would it be crazy to not take eldritch blast?

I know that is usually the bread and butter of a Warlock dip, but for a monk it seems less useful.

-I'm not getting agonizing blast. It's too weak with 13 cha.

- this is an AL game. I will will have 2 blasts for most of the game, and I will have a third at the very end of the campaign. Throwing darts with extra attack and +4 or +5 dex seem clearly better than EB.

I am thinking maybe booming blade and blade ward/Mage hand? Booming blade is good for keeping a baddie in my darkness after a shadow jump.

Blade ward might never get used, but it could be good in a pinch. Sometimes holding concentration on my silence/darkness will be more important than anything. Blade ward + bonus action dodge would work.

Edit: any other good options? Should I just take EB because the range is huge?

[Dr. Cliché]

Honestly, I'd be tempted to take Eldritch Blast just for the utility.

It gives you an attack with good range that never runs out of ammunition, can affect Incorporeal creatures and which virtually nothing in the game is resistant to.

Regarding Darts, I'm pretty sure you can only throw one per turn (even when you can normally attack twice).

[Citan]

One more question. Would it be crazy to not take eldritch blast?

I know that is usually the bread and butter of a Warlock dip, but for a monk it seems less useful.

-I'm not getting agonizing blast. It's too weak with 13 cha.

- this is an AL game. I will will have 2 blasts for most of the game, and I will have a third at the very end of the campaign. Throwing darts with extra attack and +4 or +5 dex seem clearly better than EB.

I am thinking maybe booming blade and blade ward/Mage hand? Booming blade is good for keeping a baddie in my darkness after a shadow jump.

Blade ward might never get used, but it could be good in a pinch. Sometimes holding concentration on my silence/darkness will be more important than anything. Blade ward + bonus action dodge would work.

Edit: any other good options? Should I just take EB because the range is huge?

Contrarily to Dr Cliche, I agree with you. As a Monk you already get pretty good ranged attacks except for actual range. But successful throw of one or two javelins/daggers at 20 feet is better than missing with one or two Rays at 120. Plus you have great mobility so going as close as 20 feet should usually not be that much of a problem.

Instead, you could pick...

- Booming Blade: it's a counter-intuitive choice overall but if you don't go Open Hand, it can be situationally useful to use that and move away instead of plain extra attack, if you want to try and keep creature in a certain place. Plus doesn't care at all that you have a low CHA.

- Minor Illusion: if you don't get it because you don't take Shadow but another way, it's a great tool to have: amuse crowd, create diversions, or illusions to hide behind, etc...

- Mold Earth: from EE, it's another versatile tool: bury bodies, make a platform to use to leap higher or as a half or third-quarter cover, make a hiding place into an underground wall, etc...
Aaaw, scratch that, Warlock don't get it, such a shame...

- Create Bonfire: good for any Monk, especially those non-Shadow or 4E Monk (who often have a good use for their concentration already): can be used as plain utility (roast your meat ^^), but also as a way to channel enemies (your magic is weak so DC is low, but enemies don't know it before actually trying it), or as a way to get increased damage: you are a Monk right? So Unarmed Strikes are a thing? Keep one hand free for Grappling, then keep the grappled creature just above the Bonfire while you continue smacking it. Even with a low DC, at higher level it's a decent chance to add significant damage. With Stunning Strike in play, it's a sure-hit boost.
To add insult to injury instead of Stunning Strike, you could also cast Booming Blade on the creature before releasing it and go take care of another monster, once you have a good idea of how little HP it has left: that way, either it moves and takes certain thunder damage, or don't move and risk taking fire damage.

Yeah, I'd definitely go with any two of Minor Illusion, Mold Earth and Create Bonfire, depending on your chosen Way and the kind of spells you want to use from Warlock (if you want to use Hex/Hold Person/Fear every fight, then Create Bonfire tactic is obviously not the best because you'll probably always take a short rest when out of ki anyways). :)

[Joe the Rat]

Don't forget the PHB+1 limit - a lot of Citan's suggestions are from the Elemental Evil Player's Guide - so Long Death Monk, Undying Warlock, and Booming/Greenflame would be off the table.

I think it'd be a good trade. I do find it amusing that with a few levels of warlock, you can be a better "4 elements" monk than the actual 4 elements monk.

That also opens the door for Absorb Elements. Take half damage from an "energy" attack, and add bonus damage of that type to your next attack. Useful for those attack roll effects and not-Dex-based saves.

[Provo]

Thank you all for the responses. I'm really excited about this character now.

I'm thinking Shadow monk/Undying Warlock (because there are so many undead in this AL season) Variant Human.

Stats are 8,16,12,8,16,13

Feat: Mageslayer
Monks are good mage killers. I decided to double down on that fact.

Invocations: Devil's sight (obviously), and undecided. There are a lot of good options here. I really like the "eye lock" suggestion. I may end up taking the unlimited false life though. It's thematic, I have low constitution, and I have no other regular thp boost.

[Asmotherion]

One more question. Would it be crazy to not take eldritch blast?

I know that is usually the bread and butter of a Warlock dip, but for a monk it seems less useful.

-I'm not getting agonizing blast. It's too weak with 13 cha.

- this is an AL game. I will will have 2 blasts for most of the game, and I will have a third at the very end of the campaign. Throwing darts with extra attack and +4 or +5 dex seem clearly better than EB.

I am thinking maybe booming blade and blade ward/Mage hand? Booming blade is good for keeping a baddie in my darkness after a shadow jump.

Blade ward might never get used, but it could be good in a pinch. Sometimes holding concentration on my silence/darkness will be more important than anything. Blade ward + bonus action dodge would work.

Edit: any other good options? Should I just take EB because the range is huge?

Crazy, no, it's not. Still, it doesn't "feel" right, in a Role-Playing way (at least to me, and anyone who shares my point of view), since Eldritch Blast was kinda what the Warlock was designed around, back in 3.5... There were no cantrips at-will back then, and Eldritch Blast was kinda exactly that; a unique ability of the warlock to deal kinda good ranged damage at-will that was Arcane Magic (and kinda devilish or demonic) Flavored.

This was re-introdused in 5e as giving him the Best cantrip, which is a very good idea IMO. As a cantrip, one can flavor an other class by making him "a bit of a Warlock, but not entirelly". The mistake that was made in the Warlock class design IMO is giving you the option not to pick Eldritch Blast in the first place, were it should have been stated that you take Eldritch Blast and an other Cantrip (like Arcane Trickster that doesn't let you not to pick Mage Hand). I even consider Agonising Blast a design mistake, since 9/10 Warlocks are going to take it anyway, and it should have been a Class Feature.

Optimisation wise, you don't need EB, but it won't hurt you to have it (it's an amazing Ranged Attack), and it won't hurt your RP either. If you have 13 Cha, definitelly don't take Agonising Blast, though if you are a Hexblade, you could go for a higher Charisma and use it as your Primary Stat.

[Dr. Cliché]

This was re-introdused in 5e as giving him the Best cantrip, which is a very good idea IMO. As a cantrip, one can flavor an other class by making him "a bit of a Warlock, but not entirelly". The mistake that was made in the Warlock class design IMO is giving you the option not to pick Eldritch Blast in the first place, were it should have been stated that you take Eldritch Blast and an other Cantrip (like Arcane Trickster that doesn't let you not to pick Mage Hand). I even consider Agonising Blast a design mistake, since 9/10 Warlocks are going to take it anyway, and it should have been a Class Feature.

I agree with this.

Going off-topic a little, but the 5th edition Warlock could easily be refluffed into an Eldritch Archer. He doesn't have anywhere near enough spell slots to act as a full caster and whilst Pact of the Blade and such can give him some melee options, he's generally best off just using Eldritch Blast.

Not that this is bad or anything (though, with the introduction of Pacts, I think it could have been taken in a much more interesting direction), but as you say it's very weird that Eldritch Blast was made optional when the class seems to be built around it.

[Provo]

I agree with Warlock being poorly structured. I didn't play 4th and only used core classes in 3rd, so it took me time to realize Warlock was supposed to be built around EB in 5th.

That being said, I don't think EB should be mandatory. That makes the class seem too narrow. But if it is not mandatory, you really need other comparably powerful options.

[djreynolds]

http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthr...81#post6707781

Read this guys thread, just too many ideas.

Warlock, monk, rogue.... it works

I say around 6 shadow monk and then do as you please.