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  1. - Top - End - #31
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    Lord Raziere's Avatar

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    Default Re: My friend doesn't like my character being good

    Quote Originally Posted by Rynjin View Post
    What response is there?

    You're pissed off at the very fact that the OP wrote Wizard on his character sheet and used that as a springboard to whine about those dirty filthy optimizers ruining everything for everyone.

    Which isn't relevant to this thread. At all.

    It does not address the issue the OP has: His friend is unsatisfied with what he can do in-game and is starting to become frustrated with OP because of it.

    Other people have given advice, including myself.

    You have come into the thread to...what? How does your comment help? Where does it advance the conversation to a solution for OP's game? What is its purpose in this context? Why did you think your posts needed to be made?
    It is related and relevant, can you not see?

    if things were equal, balanced, this problem would not exist. what you think its coincidence that the other person is frustrated with the OP? That somehow, the same issue would happen with a Fighter? I doubt it.

    and I don't see actual advice that helps, I see people making mocking posts about BMX Bandit and acting as if that solves everything and then saying that only effectiveness matters, acting as if the archetype doesn't matter at all. wheres the advice of how to modify the rogue as a class to be better? where in all this supposed mechanical expertise and hours spent studying the system is an actual fix for this problem, rather than some stupid comment about how they should kill their character and make a tier one/slap some spells or magic items on it and pretend as if its a rogue and try their very hardest to ignore how badly the shoe fits by just slapping spells on it, rather than y'know taking those spells and adapting their effects to rogue abilities that could replicate them without being spells, what a novel concept, its almost as if no one tries it because then the wizard and magic wouldn't be number one at everything.
    Last edited by Lord Raziere; 2017-09-20 at 07:12 PM.
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  2. - Top - End - #32
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    Rynjin's Avatar

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    Default Re: My friend doesn't like my character being good

    ...Because this isn't a thread based around houseruling the Rogue class. Were you confused?

  3. - Top - End - #33
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    Default Re: My friend doesn't like my character being good

    Quote Originally Posted by Rynjin View Post
    ...Because this isn't a thread based around houseruling the Rogue class. Were you confused?
    I don't see how that would stop anyone. its not as if there are rules for when you can houserule something.
    I'm also on discord as "raziere".


  4. - Top - End - #34
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    Default Re: My friend doesn't like my character being good

    When you're not the person running a game, you don't get to houserule things on your own.

  5. - Top - End - #35
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    Default Re: My friend doesn't like my character being good

    Quote Originally Posted by Rynjin View Post
    When you're not the person running a game, you don't get to houserule things on your own.
    Well ask the GM then, if he is anyone worth playing with, he'll allow it.
    I'm also on discord as "raziere".


  6. - Top - End - #36
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    Default Re: My friend doesn't like my character being good

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    Well ask the GM then, if he is anyone worth playing with, he'll allow it.
    If your criteria for "worth playing with" is "allows any major overhaul of a class or system a player might bring to them" I imagine you don't get to play much.

  7. - Top - End - #37
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    Default Re: My friend doesn't like my character being good

    Quote Originally Posted by Rynjin View Post
    If your criteria for "worth playing with" is "allows any major overhaul of a class or system a player might bring to them" I imagine you don't get to play much.
    Well like fan fics 90% of all media is garbage, so it filters out the ones I wouldn't have fun in anyways.
    I'm also on discord as "raziere".


  8. - Top - End - #38
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    DwarfClericGuy

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    Default Re: My friend doesn't like my character being good

    Quote Originally Posted by Nifft View Post
    Sure, just play PCs which are all within a tier of each other.

    The problem arises when you've got a T1 (an "angel summoner") in the same group as a T4 (a "BMX bandit").

    I can picture it now.....drifts off into dream mode. {DREAM MODE INITIATED}


  9. - Top - End - #39
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    Default Re: My friend doesn't like my character being good

    Party of wizard + rogue, OK.

    In combat the rogue needs someone to back him up, so he can get Sneak Attack and the like. Is this being provided? If not, perhaps invest in some henchmen. Also make sure you take up spells that help you both, such as web and hold person.

    Out of combat the rogue needs some opportunities to use the skills he has invested in, particularly expertise. These ideally are not skills that you also possess but can buff via spells like enhance ability, invisibility, etc. Have a chat with your DM to give him more spotlight on his character's strengths since you already have yours well sorted out. Your wizard will know he doesn't need to prepare Knock or Charm Person because he has a rogue that can do that for him, freeing up valuable spells prepped.

    I'd wager that as a two man party you aren't seeing as much combat as the 'standard' D&D campaign, and that plays to a Wizard's strengths. Find ways to bring the rogue into that more often. Perhaps hand him some extra magic items so he has more that he can do, and give him plenty of time to work while you're busy ritual casting.

    Edit: Most importantly, offer to sit down with the DM and Joe to go over his character with him, proposing changes he can make to be more happy with his rogue. Your Dm sounds like he's cool enough for it.
    Last edited by Kane0; 2017-09-20 at 08:27 PM.
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  10. - Top - End - #40
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    NecromancerGirl

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    Default Re: My friend doesn't like my character being good

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    I already have made something relevant, its pointing out one of the real problems at work here that causes things like this to happen. Do you have anything relevant, or would like to make more snarky comments because you can't be bothered to respond properly?
    The Hate for Win buttons thread is that way ----->

  11. - Top - End - #41
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    Default Re: My friend doesn't like my character being good

    Quote Originally Posted by Twizzly513 View Post
    Backstory:
    In d&d, my friends and I are playing an evil campaign, and there are two players and the DM.
    You have two big problems right in the first sentence.
    1. You're Playing Evil - not just jerkish murderhobos, but actual evil. Evil games have all sorts of built-in problems that if not handled delicately and kept in the hands of veteran gamers who can maintain IC and OOC separation, inevitably produce drama at the table. This is clearly an issue in the specific case, since you mention no shared goals between the two characters.

    2. You have only two players - this is not enough. You need a third player. While two players can be made to work mechanically, it is extremely difficult for a GM to balance the concerns of two people properly and leads to the only two players sparring all the time without good resolution - since if the two players disagree there's no real means of arbitration.

    My suggestion is to find some additional players (you want to have at least 3 players consistently show up, which usually means drawing from a pool of 4-5) and not play evil characters.
    Now publishing a webnovel travelogue.

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  12. - Top - End - #42
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    GreataxeFighterGuy

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    Default Re: My friend doesn't like my character being good

    Quote Originally Posted by Tinkerer View Post
    really the heart of the issue here appears to be that the other player isn't playing his role.
    Unless I missed something (which is entirely possible), I don't think that we have enough information to say that the rogue isn't playing his role. Granted, there's nothing to show that he is, either, but certainly not enough to support the contention that he isn't.

  13. - Top - End - #43
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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: My friend doesn't like my character being good

    What skills does the Rogue character have Expertise in? Could the DM find a way to reward those character choices more often?


    What spells do you have that compete with the Rogue's skill proficiencies? Could you find a way to forget those spells?


    Is the Rogue still doing Sneak Attack damage every round? In 5E, Rogue can consistently get a lot of damage per round. They might enjoy their 4d6+Dex (~17) compared to your 2d10 (~11).
    Last edited by OldTrees1; 2017-09-23 at 02:29 PM.

  14. - Top - End - #44
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    GnomeWizardGuy

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    Default Re: My friend doesn't like my character being good

    Alright. Well.

    I have not played D&D5e much (just a few sessions, really) and so I don't know the largest points for the Rogue and Wizard in the system, but here's my advice.

    First, I hope that your Wizard isn't preparing Charm Person or similar spells. After all, the whole reason that they are working with a Rogue is for the whole people person thing, and possibly disarming spells. It would make little since for your Wizard to basically team up with the Rogue, and then turn around and solve those same problems themselves. Your Wizard should focus on doing your thing, and let the Rogue get the focus of doing their thing when the time comes.

    Other people have mentioned combat and yes, I think that supporting your Rogue better would be good if you want to do well. Again, your Wizard is teamed up with the Rogue for a reason, and I'd assume he wants the Rogue to survive (for now). Raise a skeleton or something to tank some hits. Provide DEX buffs to increase the Rogue's AC, to-hit, and damage. There is certainly something that the Wizard can be doing to make the Rogue better at killing enemies, especially if the Wizard wants to be the one staying out of combat range in general.

    Second, what is the Rogue's backstory? What is the Rogue's motivations? I see a lot about your Wizard's backstory, plots, and motivations. I can understand why you might not know the Rogue's fully, but there should still be some highlights to the Rogue's story in the game. Your Wizard is getting the fancy multiclass treatment into Cleric, not because of power concerns, but because it fits their story and character and motivations. What about the Rogue? At least, I would assume that your little party is accepting high-payment jobs and going after potential treasure vaults for the Rogue's sake. Is the DM taking the time to craft some interesting things for the Rogue to do or to gain, relating to their desires?

    As an aside, if you haven't gained that Cleric multiclass level yet, you might want to look up training rules (such as with new skills) and apply them to your character, to keep things "fair" and put a requirement on learning new languages and abilities.
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