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  1. - Top - End - #1
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    BlueKnightGuy

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    Default Evocative names for real nations

    I'm starting a pirate themed campaign setted in the early XVIII century. The world is similar to the real one, but with some twists and fantasy elements. To give the feeling "the world is not exactly like the real one" I was thinking of giving the various nations and places alternative names. For example Spain becomes the "Empire of never setting sun" or something like that, while England could be Albion. But I lack ideas. Which names could be suitable for France or Netherlans ? And which for the caribbean islands ?

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    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: Evocative names for real nations

    Quote Originally Posted by BlacKnight View Post
    I'm starting a pirate themed campaign setted in the early XVIII century. The world is similar to the real one, but with some twists and fantasy elements. To give the feeling "the world is not exactly like the real one" I was thinking of giving the various nations and places alternative names. For example Spain becomes the "Empire of never setting sun" or something like that, while England could be Albion. But I lack ideas. Which names could be suitable for France or Netherlans ? And which for the caribbean islands ?
    Well, seems to me if you're going with Albion for England, the options are pretty straightforward. Spain could be Iberia, and France Gallia. More recently named places, like the Netherlands and the Caribbean are harder. Caribistan and The Low Countries strike me as possibilities.
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    2D8HP's Avatar

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    Default Re: Evocative names for real nations

    Well two games I can think of Lamentations of the Flame Princess and 7th Sea have an "early modern" (17th century) setting, and since 7th Sea re-named and re-fluffed the nations of Europe (which are still recognizable in their new clothes), I think it's worth looking into, I haven't read the rules much, but 7th Sea's setting is impressive, and I think worth looking into.

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    DeTess's Avatar

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    Default Re: Evocative names for real nations

    For the netherlands, how about the Baravian republic? It was actually called that for a couple of years around 1800 when the frebch basically took over. You could also use some variation on "The Seven Provinces".

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    HalflingRogueGuy

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    Default Re: Evocative names for real nations

    Quote Originally Posted by hymer View Post
    Well, seems to me if you're going with Albion for England...
    Please don't - Albion is for the whole of Great Britain, including England, Scotland and Wales. And please, if you don't know why that's important, then please don't try to steal our culture.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albion
    Quote Originally Posted by hymer View Post
    ... Caribistan and The Low Countries strike me as possibilities.
    Again, please don't use the "-stan" ending for a non-Persian-based place. Same reasons as above, really.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/-stan

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    Default Re: Evocative names for real nations

    If GW Warhammer can do it, D&D players can.

    GW's version of Spain/Portugal (Iberia) with a little Italy - Estalia

    GW version of Renaissance Italy - Tilea

    GW version of France - Bretonnia (with a few notable French names used for provinces - like Carcassone)

    GW's version of Tortuga - Sartosa

    GW version of pre-Roman Britain - Albion

    And so forth.

    The names don't have to match perfectly - as long as you've got something evocative.
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    Default Re: Evocative names for real nations

    Besides using ancient names for your nations, you could also consider using the names of a place within that nation.

    So, instead of Scotland, call it Orkney.
    It always amazes me how often people on forums would rather accuse you of misreading their posts with malice than re-explain their ideas with clarity.

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    hamishspence's Avatar

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    Default Re: Evocative names for real nations

    Quote Originally Posted by Vitruviansquid View Post
    Besides using ancient names for your nations, you could also consider using the names of a place within that nation.

    So, instead of Scotland, call it Orkney.
    Dalriada is a good ancient name (incorporates bits of Ireland though).
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    HalflingRogueGuy

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    Default Re: Evocative names for real nations

    Quote Originally Posted by Vitruviansquid View Post
    Besides using ancient names for your nations, you could also consider using the names of a place within that nation.

    So, instead of Scotland, call it Orkney.
    Please don't! Orkney is a culturally distinct place, quite different from Scotland - historically it was part of a Norse kingdom with no influence from the lowland Scots.

    What I'm saying here is that if you want to make use of old evocative names for alternate versions of real nations, please - get them right.
    Last edited by Bogwoppit; 2017-09-24 at 04:13 PM.

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    Default Re: Evocative names for real nations

    Quote Originally Posted by Bogwoppit View Post
    Please don't! Orkney is a culturally distinct place, quite different from Scotland - historically it was part of a Norse kingdom with no influence from the lowland Scots.
    I assume, then, you never refer to the nation of "Greece" and only use the proper name, the "Hellenic Republic." Also is it safe to say you avoid calling Helvetians Swiss?

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    NecromancerGirl

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    Default Re: Evocative names for real nations

    Quote Originally Posted by Randuir View Post
    For the netherlands, how about the Baravian republic? It was actually called that for a couple of years around 1800 when the frebch basically took over. You could also use some variation on "The Seven Provinces".
    Uh, you mean the Batavian Republic? Baravia doesn't exist, Bavaria is a state of Germany. The Batavian Republic existed right before the French came along.

    I wouldn't use Batavian Republic myself, because it's such a short-lived name, associated primarily with the French Revolution. The (Republic of the) (Seven) (United) Netherlands/Provinces would work well, though, as many Dutch would recognize that today. (Except that today, we have twelve provinces, including one we built.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Bogwoppit View Post
    Please don't! Orkney is a culturally distinct place, quite different from Scotland - historically it was part of a Norse kingdom with no influence from the lowland Scots.

    What I'm saying here is that if you want to make use of old evocative names for alternate versions of real nations, please - get them right.
    Clearly, this is an alternate universe where Orkney (with Norse support? Who knows...) conquered Scotland, or was conquered by Schotland, or the settlement-process-that-became-Orkney didn't take place on the islands, but on the mainland. Because it's an alternate universe, you can shift things around a bit. Though it's worth thinking about the historical changes that are implied by shifting of the names.
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    Fyraltari's Avatar

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    Default Re: Evocative names for real nations

    Considering the time period and who was king at the time, France could be "the Sun Kingdom".

    Also, many countries are named after one of the tribes who lived there when the country formed so you could pick another tribe and work up the new name :
    Scotland-->Picty, Germany-->Gothreich, Greece--> Achea, etc
    Last edited by Fyraltari; 2017-09-24 at 05:39 PM.
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    OrcBarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: Evocative names for real nations

    If you are looking for old names for spain, how 'bout using the name of one of the medieval spanish kingdoms: Aragon?

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    GreataxeFighterGuy

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    Default Re: Evocative names for real nations

    Quote Originally Posted by Bogwoppit View Post
    Please don't! Orkney is a culturally distinct place, quite different from Scotland - historically it was part of a Norse kingdom with no influence from the lowland Scots.

    What I'm saying here is that if you want to make use of old evocative names for alternate versions of real nations, please - get them right.
    Did you miss the part where the OP said that his setting is similar to the real world, but with some twists? Or do you just want to be inappropriately pretentious about it?

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    Default Re: Evocative names for real nations

    A lot of countries' real names are slightly inaccurate or use words in unconventional fashions. How about making them accurate. For instance
    *The United States of America becomes the United Administrative Divisions of America.
    *Any time "People's Republic" or "Democratic People's Republic" appears in a country name it can usually be safely changed to either "Authoritarian Dictatorship" or "Absolutist Monarchy"
    that kind of thing
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    Kobold

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    Default Re: Evocative names for real nations

    Quote Originally Posted by Bogwoppit View Post
    Please don't! Orkney is a culturally distinct place, quite different from Scotland - historically it was part of a Norse kingdom with no influence from the lowland Scots.

    What I'm saying here is that if you want to make use of old evocative names for alternate versions of real nations, please - get them right.
    Say it with me now:

    "A tabletop rpg played by 6 nerds for fun in Montana or somesuch does not oppress anybody by using Orkney as a name for Alt. History Scotland."

    They could name it "Haggisland" with the capitol city of "Bagpipenburg" and it would still have 0 ramifications except a lot of childish giggling. And, ironically, most scots I met would probably find it funny or, more likely, suggest renaming the US as "The United States of McDonalds" or something.

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    Default Re: Evocative names for real nations

    Quote Originally Posted by ImNotTrevor View Post
    Say it with me now:

    "A tabletop rpg played by 6 nerds for fun in Montana or somesuch does not oppress anybody by using Orkney as a name for Alt. History Scotland."

    They could name it "Haggisland" with the capitol city of "Bagpipenburg" and it would still have 0 ramifications except a lot of childish giggling. And, ironically, most scots I met would probably find it funny or, more likely, suggest renaming the US as "The United States of McDonalds" or something.

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    Or to put it more quickly:

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    HalflingRogueGuy

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    Default Re: Evocative names for real nations

    Going for the gag on your names would be fine - Haggisland, Froggia, Disneyland, whatever - but that'd be very different in tone from a supposedly "evocative" name with cultural baggage.
    What's irking me is that the slightest research into these names will show up that they're being used wrong. Toponymy isn't hard, folks.

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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Evocative names for real nations

    Quote Originally Posted by Bogwoppit View Post
    Going for the gag on your names would be fine - Haggisland, Froggia, Disneyland, whatever - but that'd be very different in tone from a supposedly "evocative" name with cultural baggage.
    What's irking me is that the slightest research into these names will show up that they're being used wrong. Toponymy isn't hard, folks.
    How about stopping the complaints and myking some suggestions then.

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    Default Re: Evocative names for real nations

    If you have a friend who is good with languages you can give the people a name based on something they view about themselves. Do not be afraid to reuse concepts in that case either: the number of "sun people" in the world is staggering.

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    Kobold

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    Default Re: Evocative names for real nations

    Quote Originally Posted by BlacKnight View Post
    For example Spain becomes the "Empire of never setting sun" or something like that ?
    Considering that by the end of that century, the British Empire was being called "the Empire on which the sun never sets", that seems - confusing.

    For Spain, I agree the historic names of some of its precursor kingdoms seems like the way to go. I suggest Castille.

    For France, how about the Carolian Kingdom (from Charlemagne)?

    For England, Anglia. (For Wales, Cymru; for Scotland, Alba or Hibernia; for Ireland, Eireann. For the whole of Great Britain - Albion works.)

    Quote Originally Posted by ImNotTrevor View Post
    They could name it "Haggisland" with the capitol city of "Bagpipenburg" and it would still have 0 ramifications except a lot of childish giggling. And, ironically, most scots I met would probably find it funny or, more likely, suggest renaming the US as "The United States of McDonalds" or something.
    Kinda true... but still, I'd be uncomfortable with that argument. Casual racism is not really something I want to give a foothold to.
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    Default Re: Evocative names for real nations

    Quote Originally Posted by veti View Post
    Considering that by the end of that century, the British Empire was being called "the Empire on which the sun never sets", that seems - confusing.
    You say that as though "Empire in which the sun never sets" wasn't ALSO a thing the Spanish called their empire.

    By and large, people are not terribly imaginative, and monarchs are generally less so than average :p.

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    Default Re: Evocative names for real nations

    See also: the number of countries in the world that claimed to be the sole heirs of the Roman Empire at some point.
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    Default Re: Evocative names for real nations

    I like the Gothreich suggestion for Germany.

    For the Netherlands you could perhaps take Flandria, Brabant, Belgica, ...

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    Kobold

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    Default Re: Evocative names for real nations

    Quote Originally Posted by veti View Post
    Kinda true... but still, I'd be uncomfortable with that argument. Casual racism is not really something I want to give a foothold to.
    I'm fairly certain that white people poking fun at white people isn't racism. >.> but this is getting into politics now when the point was essentially "take a chill pill."

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    Default Re: Evocative names for real nations

    Quote Originally Posted by BlacKnight View Post
    I'm starting a pirate themed campaign setted in the early XVIII century. The world is similar to the real one, but with some twists and fantasy elements. To give the feeling "the world is not exactly like the real one" I was thinking of giving the various nations and places alternative names. For example Spain becomes the "Empire of never setting sun" or something like that, while England could be Albion. But I lack ideas. Which names could be suitable for France or Netherlans ? And which for the caribbean islands ?
    "Albion" is Great Britain, really - but seeing as most of the world think "England" is also Great Britain, you can probably get away with that. If you want distinct British Celtic nations as well as an Imperial British presence, then you'll want other names for them - Pictland or Caledonia for Scotland, maybe; Brythonni or Kumri for Wales ("Kumri" helps with the pronunciation of "Cymru").

    France could be Gaul, or Gallia, or named for one of the historic regions and imagining that they became supreme instead of the Franks - say Gascone, or Burgundia, or similar.

    Netherlands could easily be the Low Countries - it's commonly called that in the real world, being just a different rendering of "Netherlands". Or perhaps Fenland, Lowland, or similar.

    For the Caribbean, consider where the current names come from - lots of them are named for the kings and queens of the European colonists: the Virgin Islands for one are named after Elizabeth I the "Virgin Queen" - so whatever the last generations' monarch were called will be the names of some of your islands.
    Others are named quite simply in other languages: "Puerto Rico" = "Rich Port" - so use that sort of naming for some.

    You could also substitute the less well-known regional name "Antilles" or "Antillia" for the Caribbean.
    Last edited by Altair_the_Vexed; 2017-09-25 at 06:27 AM.

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    Default Re: Evocative names for real nations

    Quote Originally Posted by ImNotTrevor View Post
    I'm fairly certain that white people poking fun at white people isn't racism.
    Only if it's done equally (e.g. frogs vs rosbifs), but there's plenty of discrimination to go round (e.g. the historical treatment of the Irish or Italians).

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    Kobold

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    Default Re: Evocative names for real nations

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Oni View Post
    Only if it's done equally (e.g. frogs vs rosbifs), but there's plenty of discrimination to go round (e.g. the historical treatment of the Irish or Italians).
    To quote myself from the same post:
    "This is getting political now when the original point was 'take a chill pill.'"

    I for realsies could not give less of a crap about the particulars.

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    HalflingRogueGuy

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    Default Re: Evocative names for real nations

    Quote Originally Posted by Satinavian View Post
    How about stopping the complaints and myking some suggestions then.
    Take your pick - there a host of alternate news for the lands of the Caribbean.
    *Spoon-feeding in the Playground*
    http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Toponymy+of+the+Caribbean+islands

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    Kobold

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    Default Re: Evocative names for real nations

    Quote Originally Posted by Bogwoppit View Post
    Take your pick - there a host of alternate news for the lands of the Caribbean.
    *Spoon-feeding in the Playground*
    http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Toponymy+of+the+Caribbean+islands
    Sooooo aside from being unhelpful and snarky, you're also going to ignore the Alt. History nature of the request and insist that the only possible evocative names are just ones people already use.

    Mmmmmmk.

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