Question about UK vernacular and expletives

[NRSASD]

Hello Playground!

As an ignorant American, I have to ask a question about our cousins across the pond and their use of language. I've heard that a certain word that rhymes with "floody" is a very strong expletive in UK English. On the scale of severity, how bad is it? Stub your toe bad, or wrecking your partner's car bad? Also, how do you describe something that has blood on it? Is it still an expletive then? I know these are kinda silly questions, but its bothered me for far longer than I'd like to admit.

Thank you for any and all input!

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Hello Playground!

As an ignorant American, I have to ask a question about our cousins across the pond and their use of language. I've heard that a certain word that rhymes with "floody" is a very strong expletive in UK English. On the scale of severity, how bad is it? Stub your toe bad, or wrecking your partner's car bad? Is it still an expletive then?

Mild enough to be the expletive of choice of an 11 year old Ron Weasley in the PG film "Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone" upon discovering his train companion is The Harry Potter (or possibly upon seeing the scar; memory's a bit fuzzy).

Also, how do you describe something that has blood on it?

"Bloody" works fine. Context is key.

GW

[Anonymouswizard]

Bloody is so mild a swear I barely here it these days. It's also mild enough that as long as my parents aren't around I'll freely use it for emphasis. So around the level of 'stubbed your toe' or 'computer isn't responding'.

Also, as has been said, context is key. It's relatively clear in speech, the word has different emphasis when being used as a swear in my experience, but even in text it's relatively easy to separate the two. Here's an example:

'The bloody jacket ripped.'

'Geoff was found wearing a bloody jacket.'

Okay, so maybe it isn't always clear, the second one is equally valid for either, but the context will make it clear. 'Two nights ago there was a stabbing in the town square and Geoff showed up at my wearing a bloody jacket.'

[DataNinja]

Mild enough to be the expletive of choice of an 11 year old Ron Weasley in the PG film "Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone" upon discovering his train companion is The Harry Potter (or possibly upon seeing the scar; memory's a bit fuzzy).

That's now making me recall reading the Philosopher's Stone as a kid, and not understanding why anyone would be surprised that the Bloody Baron was... literally covered in blood.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

That's now making me recall reading the Philosopher's Stone as a kid, and not understanding why anyone would be surprised that the Bloody Baron was... literally covered in blood.

As usual, Pratchett managed to make fun of this kind of misunderstanding:

“Your friend Mr. Tulip would perhaps like part of your payment to be the harpsichord?" said the chair.
"It's not a ―ing harpsichord, it's a ―ing virginal," growled Mr. Tulip. "One ―ing string to a note instead of two! So called because it was an instrument for ―ing young ladies!"
"My word, was it?" said one of the chairs. "I thought it was just of sort of early piano!”


~ Terry Pratchett, The Truth

GW

[Red Fel]

I'm reminded of a rather delightful little nugget from A Bit of Fry and Laurie, one of the cocktail ending sketches. They're tossing out mildly obscene cocktail names, and Jeanine asks, "What's a Sodding Mary?" To which Stephen responds, naturally, "Like a Bloody Mary, but a little bit ruder."

So, yes. Rather on the lower end of the scale.

Then again, there are certainly parts of any country where even strong profanity is something more akin to background noise, wouldn't you say?

[Ebon_Drake]

That's now making me recall reading the Philosopher's Stone as a kid, and not understanding why anyone would be surprised that the Bloody Baron was... literally covered in blood.

That's a stretch by Rowling. I can't remember that particular part of the book, but even as a Brit taking the name "the Bloody Baron" literally (or at least as an Ivan the Terrible-style moniker) makes far more sense. Unless everyone was saying his name in a very flippant way that could be taken along the lines of "irritating", but that wouldn't really jibe with his description in the books - though moreso his appearance in the films.

[lio45]

Also, as has been said, context is key. It's relatively clear in speech, the word has different emphasis when being used as a swear in my experience, but even in text it's relatively easy to separate the two. Here's an example:

'The bloody jacket ripped.'

'Geoff was found wearing a bloody jacket.'

Okay, so maybe it isn't always clear, the second one is equally valid for either, but the context will make it clear. 'Two nights ago there was a stabbing in the town square and Geoff showed up at my wearing a bloody jacket.'

It's amusing - well, to me at least :P - to imagine a context where it works both ways. Let's say I just had an accident, I'm wounded and bleeding, my jacket is full of blood, and being wounded I'm presently struggling to get rid of it as a first step towards trying to figure out the extent of my wounds, while you're watching paralyzed, then I say "Help me get rid of that bloody jacket, will you?"

[factotum]

Yeah, "bloody" is an incredibly mild expletive that's barely ever heard these days--which is why British audiences found Marcus Cole in B5 saying "That's a bloody awful lot of ships!" rather ridiculous, because that sounded old-fashioned even in the mid-90s, much less in the 2250s setting of the series.

[Peelee]

Yeah, "bloody" is an incredibly mild expletive that's barely ever heard these days--which is why British audiences found Marcus Cole in B5 saying "That's a bloody awful lot of ships!" rather ridiculous, because that sounded old-fashioned even in the mid-90s, much less in the 2250s setting of the series.

I think I can identify with this! It's probably similar to how in the Atmos episode of Dr. Who, the American kid kept saying "clever" instead of "smart." Which wasn't so noticeable until he kept saying "I'm cleverer than X" a bunch of times in a row, and it sounding really awkward in an American accent.

[NRSASD]

Thanks! I had no idea where it fell on the spectrum, so thanks for the info. My fiance stoutly maintained that it was on par with "duck", but neither of us actually knew. Has its severity mellowed in recent years? Was it a lot worse in the near past (1950's-ish)?

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Was it a lot worse in the near past (1950's-ish)?

I have no idea, but if I had to guess, I'd say most insults expletives (other than replacements like "sugar" for "****", which start mild) were once "worse", and they become milder as they are used and their shock value is lessened by them becoming commonplace, leading to the need to introduce new ones who are now "worse". Eventually, they fall into disuse, and a generation later they can once again be "bad" when resurrected.

There used to be a time, for example, when referencing "God's Hooks" (i.e. the nails used to crucify Jesus) was a terrible imprecation. Today, all that is left of it is "Gadzooks", which is so mild grandmas probably use it. I suspect many other insults follow similar paths.

GW

[Frozen_Feet]

Stub your toe bad, or wrecking your partner's car bad?

????

Is that suppsed to be a scale? Because I swear exactly as bad in both situations. And half the words would be censored if I tried to translate.

[Knaight]

I have no idea, but if I had to guess, I'd say most insults (other than replacements like "sugar" for "****", which start mild) were once "worse", and they become milder as they are used and their shock value is lessened by them becoming commonplace, leading to the need to introduce new ones who are now "worse". Eventually, they fall into disuse, and a generation later they can once again be "bad" when resurrected.

I'd split insults into a few categories here, which have different severity trajectories. Swearing is generally being interpreted as more mild - it's basically punctuation among most younger people, where it's still a big deal for many among the elderly. On the other hand, straight up slurs seem to be going in the other direction, where there's still a lot of acceptance among the elderly and the youth are generally a bit more hostile to them. These generational tends within a given time period then map well to cultural trends across a few generations.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

I'd split insults into a few categories here, which have different severity trajectories. Swearing is generally being interpreted as more mild - it's basically punctuation among most younger people, where it's still a big deal for many among the elderly. On the other hand, straight up slurs seem to be going in the other direction, where there's still a lot of acceptance among the elderly and the youth are generally a bit more hostile to them. These generational tends within a given time period then map well to cultural trends across a few generations.

Yes, I used the wrong word. I said "insult" but I meant the much narrower category of "expletive". My bad.

GW

[Manga Shoggoth]

Yeah, "bloody" is an incredibly mild expletive that's barely ever heard these days--which is why British audiences found Marcus Cole in B5 saying "That's a bloody awful lot of ships!" rather ridiculous, because that sounded old-fashioned even in the mid-90s, much less in the 2250s setting of the series.

It depends a lot on where you are in the country and who you are with. It is still current, but how strong it is and how often it is used varies. It is quite surprising how much language changes across the country.

I'm a lot further south than Factotum, and I hear it a fair bit (although the ladies usually object to it quite strongly). On the other hand it used to be common currency in the parts of Yorkshire where I did my degree.

I wonder if anyone has ever done a survey of swear word usage by region - an admittedly quick search came up with naught.

[Brother Oni]

I'm a bit more south (and a lot more west) than Manga Shoggoth and it's a very mild and infrequent swear word (depending on the generation of the person using it - it's less common among younger folk).

I can't find a swear word by region for the UK (a linguist by the name of Jack Grieve did a map for the US via twitter analysis and it's interesting reading) and the best I can find is an Ofcom list of swear words ranked with regard to strength and acceptability before the watershed. 'Bloody' is described as "Mild language, generally of little concern. Frequently used in everyday language to express emotion, and not usually as a directed insult.".

Reason: Removed Peelee - wrong "Birmingham"...

I was wondering why every time I read Peelee's location I got the opening hook for 'Sweet Home Alabama' triggering in my head and now I know why - it's the same Birmingham and now I'm going to have that bloody song stuck in my head all day...

[Peelee]

Reason: Removed Peelee - wrong "Birmingham"...

Fun fact! We stole more EnglandBritish? city names around these parts. I grew up in Inverness, there's a big outlet mall in Leeds, I got friends over in Oxford, and let me tell you, you do not want to to to Kingston upon Hull.
Mostly because that last one doesn't exist, of course.
The other cities were got aren't pronounced like any reasonable person would think they are, like Helena and Mobile. You're pronouncing them wrong in your mind right now, I tells ya!

I was wondering why every time I read Peelee's location I got the opening hook for 'Sweet Home Alabama' triggering in my head and now I know why - it's the same Birmingham and now I'm going to have that bloody song stuck in my head all day...

Even more fun facts! There are three kinds of people in Alabama. People who hate that song, people who haven't been here long enough, and people who have heard it so much that it killed their souls.

[Jormengand]

that bloody song

All right, folks, I think the thread's gone full circle.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

All right, folks, I think the thread's gone full circle.

Bloody Hel, that was quick. It's still the first bloody page and all.

GW

[Heliomance]

Yeah, "bloody" is an incredibly mild expletive that's barely ever heard these days--which is why British audiences found Marcus Cole in B5 saying "That's a bloody awful lot of ships!" rather ridiculous, because that sounded old-fashioned even in the mid-90s, much less in the 2250s setting of the series.

I use "bloody" all the bloody time (okay, I only did that because of the thread :P). It's probably my number one go-to intensifier, and "bloody hell" or "bloody hellfire" my favourite expletive. But yes, it's very mild - I generally consider that I don't swear except under extreme provocation, but bloody, bugger, balls, bollocks, and crap are all in my arsenal. Also arsemarbles, that's a fun one.

[Manga Shoggoth]

Fun fact! We stole more England city names around these parts. I grew up in Inverness, there's a big outlet mall in Leeds, I got friends over in Oxford, and let me tell you, you do not want to to to Kingston upon Hull.

Yup. Sounds just like home...

[Peelee]

Yup. Sounds just like home...

Also, I could kick myself for not thinking of this one before...

I'm a lot more south than Manga Shoggoth and Brother Oni, and I rarely hear people say "bloody" at all!

[Aedilred]

Fun fact! We stole more England city names around these parts. I grew up in Inverness...

Oh dear.

[Peelee]

Oh dear.

England = Great Britain = UK. There is no difference between the three. I'm quite surprised you don't know that, living in London and all. Now, let me fix that...

[NontheistCleric]

That's now making me recall reading the Philosopher's Stone as a kid, and not understanding why anyone would be surprised that the Bloody Baron was... literally covered in blood.

Maybe they just thought he had killed a lot of people in life. Aristocrat name prefixes and suffixes are not always completely literal.

[lio45]

.. and "bloody hell" or "bloody hellfire" my favourite expletive.

Fascinating! And you make it sound natural, I imagine?

[Heliomance]

Fascinating! And you make it sound natural, I imagine?

Well, I assume so. It's interesting - on thinking about it, there's actually a slight difference in how I use the two curses, I think. "Bloody hellfire" has shades of resignation to it, in my mind. It quite often gets used when my code isn't working: "Oh bloody hellfire, what's gone wrong this time?"

"Bloody hell" has more tones of shock or surprise to it: "Bloody hell that's expensive", "Bloody hell, what happened here?!"

[Anonymouswizard]

You see, to me the worst bloody can be is 'I'm rather annoyed with this bloody piece of technology' or 'you were a bloody idiot doing that', but to my dad it's a lot worse (as is all swearing).

[Brother Oni]

England = Great Britain = UK. There is no difference between the three. I'm quite surprised you don't know that, living in London and all. Now, let me fix that...

To the average Londoner, anywhere north of the Watford Gap is essentially north of The Wall ala A Song of Ice and Fire and anywhere west of Reading is vaguely West Country-shire and once you get off the motorway, you're in yokel country.

I wonder what the UK equivalent of banjo twanging is... the clash of sticks and morris bells?