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    Default Usefulness of stats in baldur's gate

    I am playing good old Baldur's gate II, which is based on D&D 2nd edition, and I wanted to know a few things about stats when creating the character:

    1) Do wisdom modify saving throws? If I am playing a class that does not need wisdom (say, a wizard) can I just dump it to 3?
    2) When playing the enchanter (what basically became the sorceror in 3.x) I need a minimum score in both INT and CHA. What does it mean? Do I need to raise my intelligence? Do I gain benefits from a higher intelligence? In fact, what's the benefit of having a higher charisma, since both benefits of intelligence for mages (higher chance to learn scrolls and more spells known per day) do not apply to them?
    Last edited by King of Nowhere; 2017-09-25 at 02:59 PM.
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    Default Re: Usefulness of stats

    A wizard actually uses the wisdom score to affect the Limited Wish spell. One thing is for sure, MAX DEX! Doesn't matter what you're using just max it. Also don't lower your INT too much even if your not playing a wizard.
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    Default Re: Usefulness of stats

    The Mod Wonder: I moved this, as it's really more about BG2 than it is 2e.

    That said...

    It is my understanding that BG did NOT implement Wisdom bonuses to saving throws. However, Wisdom DOES affect Lore, so dropping it to 3 means you get a hefty Lore penalty (which I, personally, hate). And, as mentioned, Limited Wish is affected by your Wisdom (though you can partially avoid that with Potions of Insight, which raise your Wisdom).

    And, as a point of pedanty, the Enchanter didn't become the Sorcerer. The Enchanter specializes in Enchantment/Charm spells. The Sorcerer is a new thing. An Enchant requires a minimum charisma, but that's it... they don't get anything from their charisma that others don't get. Everything is based on Intelligence, which you want as high as possible.
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    Default Re: Usefulness of stats

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Hall View Post
    [COLOR="#FF0000"]

    And, as a point of pedanty, the Enchanter didn't become the Sorcerer. The Enchanter specializes in Enchantment/Charm spells. The Sorcerer is a new thing. An Enchant requires a minimum charisma, but that's it... they don't get anything from their charisma that others don't get. Everything is based on Intelligence, which you want as high as possible.
    Ok, I'm mistranslating here because I have the game in italian, so let's rephrase the question:

    they introduced in BGII a class that works basically like the 3.x sorceror, and it needs a minimum of both INT and CHA. Does anyone know if it actually needs the INT, and what good is the CHA?
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    Default Re: Usefulness of stats

    Quote Originally Posted by King of Nowere View Post
    Ok, I'm mistranslating here because I have the game in italian, so let's rephrase the question:

    they introduced in BGII a class that works basically like the 3.x sorceror, and it needs a minimum of both INT and CHA. Does anyone know if it actually needs the INT, and what good is the CHA?
    The BG2 Sorcerer doesn't actually use INT or CHA for anything.

    INT in BG is only used for the number of spells you can have in your spellbook (irrelevant for Sorcerers) and chance to learn them (likewise).


    You want max DEX and at least 16 CON. Strength is useful for carting loot around, but not your primary combat ability because you want enemies to be over there.


    (The confusion arises because Enchanter is one of the specialist wizard types.)

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    Default Re: Usefulness of stats in baldur's gate

    Quote Originally Posted by King of Nowere View Post
    I am playing good old Baldur's gate II, which is based on D&D 2nd edition, and I wanted to know a few things about stats when creating the character:

    1) Do wisdom modify saving throws? If I am playing a class that does not need wisdom (say, a wizard) can I just dump it to 3?
    2) When playing the enchanter (what basically became the sorceror in 3.x) I need a minimum score in both INT and CHA. What does it mean? Do I need to raise my intelligence? Do I gain benefits from a higher intelligence? In fact, what's the benefit of having a higher charisma, since both benefits of intelligence for mages (higher chance to learn scrolls and more spells known per day) do not apply to them?
    1) No, Wis doesn't modify saves. If you're going to make any sort of regular use of (limited)wish, then high Wis gives you better options / less bad options more frequently, though the same effect can be replicated via potions if you only intend on useing it sparingly.
    2) Charisma is not useful for the sorc as already pointed out, but it is useful for being the party "face". See http://baldursgate.wikia.com/wiki/Charisma for more details on the various bonus/malus for interactions. IIRC there's a ring that you get early that sets your Cha to 18 (and a 1/day charm spell I think), but then, that takes a ring slot instead of something else useful.

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    Default Re: Usefulness of stats in baldur's gate

    The small number of times you need 18 Cha for, you can toss on the ring and then swap it back to the useful thing unless you're in a party where there simply aren't enough rings to fill all 12 slots already.

    Sorcerors have total access to their books, so they can cast all slots as Magic Missile or all Chromatic Orb without having to pre-prep specific spell slots. But instead they get a number of total uses per day basically.
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    Default Re: Usefulness of stats in baldur's gate

    Didn't having a high Charisma in your party leader also reduce the chances of morale failure in battle? I seem to remember that being a thing, although I could imagine it being something the manual says CHA does but it isn't actually true.
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    Default Re: Usefulness of stats in baldur's gate

    I never saw Morale Failure on my side not caused by a spell. Plenty on the enemy side but nothing stopped my side that wasn't magically caused.
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    Default Re: Usefulness of stats

    Quote Originally Posted by GloatingSwine View Post
    The BG2 Sorcerer doesn't actually use INT or CHA for anything.

    INT in BG is only used for the number of spells you can have in your spellbook (irrelevant for Sorcerers) and chance to learn them (likewise).


    You want max DEX and at least 16 CON. Strength is useful for carting loot around, but not your primary combat ability because you want enemies to be over there.


    (The confusion arises because Enchanter is one of the specialist wizard types.)
    There's something comical about this.

    "Man, I'm not smart enough to be a good wizard, and my middling charisma doesn't really matter, so I'll be a sorcerer!"
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    Default Re: Usefulness of stats in baldur's gate

    Quote Originally Posted by Triaxx View Post
    I never saw Morale Failure on my side not caused by a spell. Plenty on the enemy side but nothing stopped my side that wasn't magically caused.
    I want to say I remember Jahiera panicking after taking a crit leaving her in single digit hp in Irenicus' dungeon, but it's been so long since I've played, especially without mods, that I can't say if that was a thing or if I'm misremembering. Kahlid in BG1 on the other hand...

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    Default Re: Usefulness of stats in baldur's gate

    Morale failure is a thing. It's checked for after the character gets to a certain percentage of health, so obviously it happens most often for those with more health; poor Khalid is actually disadvantaged here by being a high-Constitution d10-hit-dice class.

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    Default Re: Usefulness of stats in baldur's gate

    Arcane casters have a 2nd level spell that removes fear effects, and clerics have it as a 1st level spell.

    STR: Always good for hitting things, both for to-hit and damage. There are a bunch of items that give you 18 or better STR. Belt, gloves, and mace are all available in Ch2. Hammer in Ch6 (forgetting numbering) and longsword in ToB. You only have so many spell slots per day, and there's a wiz/sorc staff with a nice on-hit Dispel effect...if you can handle one of the 3 toughest battles in SoA.
    DEX: Helps your AC. There's only one item that raises it, and several NPCs would benefit from that item. Always max this.
    CON: HP. Always max this. If you get up to 20 CON, you get a slow always-on regeneration effect.
    INT: Good for defense against a specific enemy, and against Maze. Only bards & wizards really care about it, although it can help with a few conversational options.
    WIS: Divine casting, conversation, and critical for Wish/Limited Wish at high levels. I max it on anyone Wishful.
    CHA: Dump stat for everyone.

    NOT LISTED BUT IMPORTANT: Short races (dwarf, gnome, halfling) can get up to a +5 bonus on some of their saving throws. I think it involves high CON but don't have time to look it up. If you're playing a class that's compatible with one of these races, it's a huge advantage.

    If you have a class that has a minimum requirement (ie, Paladin Cha 17) then the game will take whatever you roll for that stat and bump it up. It's free extra character points, but you can't reassign them below the mini...
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    Default Re: Usefulness of stats in baldur's gate

    Constitution 17-19 does nothing for anyone who isn't a d10 (or d12) class.

    If you dump Charisma, be prepared for everyone to be unfriendly to you; the computer is not like a real DM, who can be snowed by better speaking than the character would actually be capable of/doesn't want to not give out plot points even if rolls would dictate such. There is a ring that will set it to 18; you'll need to commit one of your fingers permanently to that ring if you're relying on it.

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    Default Re: Usefulness of stats in baldur's gate

    19 is good if you can get your hands on a Manual of Bodily Health.
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    Default Re: Usefulness of stats in baldur's gate

    Quote Originally Posted by Kish View Post
    If you dump Charisma, be prepared for everyone to be unfriendly to you
    Given that most stats in AD&D only offer miniscule change from a whopping range of 8 to 15... eh, I'd say you're overrating this aspect. NPC reactions are also affected by reputation, and unless you go Evil, you will be at Rep 20 in no time. There is a cap on how much you can slash prices at the vendors, too (and it's not like either BG game makes you worry about money much after a certain, not-that-far-away, point). If you're gonna be a backline character, your party leader might very well be someone like Ajantis or Keldorn with their Paladin charisma, so they will be the ones likely to talk. I mean, really, I can't think of anything that a Good character with low-to-mediocre Charisma will truly miss out on. Dagger +1 from Fuller or bonus allowance from Hull and Phlydia in Candlekeep is really not worth fussing over. Given my experiences from playing Evil (and missing out on rewards like Jared's Boots of the North or that scroll of protection against undead you can get from a little girl who lost her cat) a while ago, I really think Reputation renders Charisma somewhat obsolete for most purposes.. I mean, sure, it's probably nice to not put it at 3, but also neglecting it in general won't necessarily make you the runt of the litter.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kish View Post
    There is a ring that will set it to 18; you'll need to commit one of your fingers permanently to that ring if you're relying on it.
    You can just put it on before talking to vendors and maybe some important NPCs, About the only time I'd care about 18 Charisma is if you really don't want to sleep with Phaere in Ust'Natha, and even without the access to the infamous eunuch line your character can still think up an excuse with just a decent Intelligence score. So, really, that just boils down to "put on the ring when you're doing business in the city, remove it when you're doing heavy lifting in a dungeon".
    Last edited by Winthur; 2017-09-25 at 09:36 PM.
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    Default Re: Usefulness of stats in baldur's gate

    thanks for all the answers, and especiially for pointing me to the wikia, I hadn't found it in my previous searches.

    yes, I am aware that I should get a DEX of 18 for more AC, at least 11 INT to survive mind flayers longer (though I may get away with spamming mirror images) and CON 16 - though I may want to get it to 17 because I have to accept a stat drain in spellhold and it is the only stat I can give up. I actually forgot WIS was good for wishes, though I use them regularly.

    I want to solo the game, so that requires also some melee capacity for monsters that are immune to magic; there is however a spell that raises STR to 18/50 and lasts a long time, so I can dump it safely. Actually playing a half-orc would be great, because CHA penalty is not a problem and STR 19 would help a lot otherwise, but they are class-restricted. I am currently soloing the game already, with a dual class wizard/rogue (basically the way XP scale means I got 8 rogue levels for free, which let me disarm traps and use daystar), but I am getting bored by the need to rest every couple encounters even at high levels; also, I can't cast some of the best spells (like tenser's transformation, which would be incredibly useful against golem or even just to wipe up a room of mooks with a single spell) because I'm not finding appropriate scrolls (I could use the charactger editor, but it would sort of defy the point of soloing). A sorceror could go through more encounters, and I see that I'm not using that many different spells so a restricted spell list would not be a problem. There is a 2nd level spell for picking locks, being unable to disarm traps would suck but I should be able to survive them (in chapter 1 to get the key from the room I may have to lower the difficulty level, that's the only place where it would be a problem). I could get the staff of rysn, and still get passable melee bonuses.

    By the way, is there any way (available to a sorcerer) to get immunity from charme, domination and confusion (like humber hulk effect)? when playing with a group, dispel magic does the trick just fine, but when soloing, you can only hope to pass the saving throw or reload the game; and while spam reloading to find the right strategy is all good and well, reloading until you get lucky also removes a lot of satisfaction from the game
    Last edited by King of Nowhere; 2017-09-26 at 06:37 AM.
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    Default Re: Usefulness of stats in baldur's gate

    Quote Originally Posted by King of Nowere View Post
    but I am getting bored by the need to rest every couple encounters even at high levels;
    Use your active items! Those wands, scrolls and potions you're probably hoarding are probably going to waste in your inventory. All of those items with activated effects also can be used creatively. If you want more lasting power, invest more into summoning or even polymorph-self spells, and other cost-effective ways of doing stuff. Mix it up. A Cloudkill will win you an encounter, but how many encounters do you even need Cloudkill for? And what happens to the spellslot after you've expelled the Cloudkill? Yeah. You can kill most trash by just doing stuff like Cloak of the Sewers (Rat Form) -> Fire Shield, or using Melf's Minute Meteors, or Minor Sequencer (2x Strength) -> Polymorph Self (Sword Spider) -> Release Minor Sequencer -> enjoy 4 APR with poison, haste and any defensive spells you can get your hands on (Stoneskin, obviously).

    Also try picking the pockets of the guards in Waukeen Promenade, particularly the one guarding the Adventurer's Mart, because for some reason they sometimes roll high-level scrolls in their pocket.
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    Default Re: Usefulness of stats in baldur's gate

    Quote Originally Posted by King of Nowere View Post
    thanks for all the answers, and especiially for pointing me to the wikia, I hadn't found it in my previous searches.

    yes, I am aware that I should get a DEX of 18 for more AC, at least 11 INT to survive mind flayers longer (though I may get away with spamming mirror images) and CON 16 - though I may want to get it to 17 because I have to accept a stat drain in spellhold and it is the only stat I can give up. I actually forgot WIS was good for wishes, though I use them regularly.

    I want to solo the game, so that requires also some melee capacity for monsters that are immune to magic; there is however a spell that raises STR to 18/50 and lasts a long time, so I can dump it safely. Actually playing a half-orc would be great, because CHA penalty is not a problem and STR 19 would help a lot otherwise, but they are class-restricted. I am currently soloing the game already, with a dual class wizard/rogue (basically the way XP scale means I got 8 rogue levels for free, which let me disarm traps and use daystar), but I am getting bored by the need to rest every couple encounters even at high levels; also, I can't cast some of the best spells (like tenser's transformation, which would be incredibly useful against golem or even just to wipe up a room of mooks with a single spell) because I'm not finding appropriate scrolls (I could use the charactger editor, but it would sort of defy the point of soloing). A sorceror could go through more encounters, and I see that I'm not using that many different spells so a restricted spell list would not be a problem. There is a 2nd level spell for picking locks, being unable to disarm traps would suck but I should be able to survive them (in chapter 1 to get the key from the room I may have to lower the difficulty level, that's the only place where it would be a problem). I could get the staff of rysn, and still get passable melee bonuses.

    By the way, is there any way (available to a sorcerer) to get immunity from charme, domination and confusion (like humber hulk effect)? when playing with a group, dispel magic does the trick just fine, but when soloing, you can only hope to pass the saving throw or reload the game; and while spam reloading to find the right strategy is all good and well, reloading until you get lucky also removes a lot of satisfaction from the game
    Dumping Str makes carrying things a pain. If you want to solo (and it's obvious that you're not too concerned the mechanics side of things), the Kensai/Mage is usually the way to go. Gets all the fighty that you need and all the buffing and pewpew that you need in one handy package with almost none of the downsides (oh no, my kensai/mage can't wear armour, whatever shall I do? /sarcasm).

    Protection from arrows and some combination of gear/spells to boost your resists over 100% to fire/light/acid/cold and/or judicious use of summons will see you through most traps and the one or two that can't be "disarmed" via summons can be bypassed with Dimension Door. Knock as you've already discovered can replicate half a thief's usefulness and you should have more than enough spell slots to cover that and a handful of acid arrow/glitterdusts.

    (Minor) Globe of Invulnerability will block charms, as will (Minor) Spell Turning/Deflection/Immunity [Enchantment]. Magic resistance also does the trick, so turning into an ooze can be handy on occassion. There's a helm that grants you immunity to charm effects too, and IIRC, Lilacor also hands it out, though that's not as useful. Improved Invis should also stop casters, but then they'll just True Sight you before casting it. I think you can also set a Spell Trigger to cast Charm/Domination/etc on yourself when charmed but that quite a waste more often than not.

    Umber Hulks are annoying, but can be instantly killed via Death Spell and (IIRC) Cloudkill. They're uncommon enough that a wand should be sufficient for all your Umber Hulk needs instead of devoting a spell slot to them. IIRC, Illithids can also be killed with Death Spell, though you have to get past their Magic Resistance first (again, it's been a long time since I played).

    You should be able to buy most of the scrolls you need from merchants. Fairly sure I remember Tensor's being available in the same area that you bust out of Irenicus' dungeon, along with a scroll case, from a merchant that's not really marked on the map, but is fairly easy to find.

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    Default Re: Usefulness of stats in baldur's gate

    Quote Originally Posted by Winthur View Post
    Use your active items! Those wands, scrolls and potions you're probably hoarding are probably going to waste in your inventory. All of those items with activated effects also can be used creatively. If you want more lasting power, invest more into summoning or even polymorph-self spells, and other cost-effective ways of doing stuff. Mix it up. A Cloudkill will win you an encounter, but how many encounters do you even need Cloudkill for? And what happens to the spellslot after you've expelled the Cloudkill? Yeah. You can kill most trash by just doing stuff like Cloak of the Sewers (Rat Form) -> Fire Shield, or using Melf's Minute Meteors, or Minor Sequencer (2x Strength) -> Polymorph Self (Sword Spider) -> Release Minor Sequencer -> enjoy 4 APR with poison, haste and any defensive spells you can get your hands on (Stoneskin, obviously).

    Also try picking the pockets of the guards in Waukeen Promenade, particularly the one guarding the Adventurer's Mart, because for some reason they sometimes roll high-level scrolls in their pocket.
    You are vastly overestimating the amount of scrolls and stuff the game hands down. I don't have that many of those, and most are useless spells. If I tried to hoard, I could have gotten maybe ten scrolls of fireball, which would have seen me through half a dozen enccounters.
    I tried summoning but it never got me anywhere, the summoned monster just went down like a sac of potatoes; only the sword of mordekainen is pretty useful, but it lasts a limited time.
    I didn't got much use out of cloudkill, I generally found that monsters weak enough to be killed by it can also be killed by sunfire, without dealing damage to me in the process. If it instakills umber hulks I will remember it, though.
    Polimorph is very useful, but I only prepare one because there are so many useful 4th level spells (stoneskin, greater invisibility, spirit armor...), so I am reluctant to use it. That's another reason I'd like a sorceror: I could spam the same spell over and over while keeping the full utility value of my remaining spell slots. I wasn't aware you could use spell sequencers while polimorphed; I never tried because I just right now found the scroll with the spell - at the svirfneblin city, no less! I could not find a damn 4th level scroll before that. Anyway, it's not that useful for dealing with mooks; the various polimorphed forms all have bad AC, and they aren't fast killing machines, so tanking the monsters in the time it takes me to kill drains a lot my defensive spells. I still need to sleep every couple encounters, I'd just be using different spells. Again, a couple uses of sunfire or skulltrap take less time and less spell slots.

    I find myself in that situation every time I try a wizard in a videogame: I think of how fun it will be to figure out new spell combinations to face different problems, then I get put through an endless series of weak random encounters that will all be solvable with the same few spells, while never finding a situation where I need to change my selection - worst case, I may use a scroll for that single time in the game. So I change to a sorceror and go ahead spamming the same spell through all the game. I soloed neverwinter nights 2 with (greater) fireburst - even when I got higher level, 90% of the times the most effective solution was simply empowered or maximized greater fireburst - then mask of the betrayer with banshee's wail. I think there is some flaw in how those spells are designed; it's like having a tool kit and finding you actually only need the screwdriver 90% of the times.

    Quote Originally Posted by Drasius View Post
    Dumping Str makes carrying things a pain. If you want to solo (and it's obvious that you're not too concerned the mechanics side of things), the Kensai/Mage is usually the way to go. Gets all the fighty that you need and all the buffing and pewpew that you need in one handy package with almost none of the downsides (oh no, my kensai/mage can't wear armour, whatever shall I do? /sarcasm).

    Protection from arrows and some combination of gear/spells to boost your resists over 100% to fire/light/acid/cold and/or judicious use of summons will see you through most traps and the one or two that can't be "disarmed" via summons can be bypassed with Dimension Door. Knock as you've already discovered can replicate half a thief's usefulness and you should have more than enough spell slots to cover that and a handful of acid arrow/glitterdusts.
    can you dual class from kensai? I assumed you only could dual class with the base classes. Anyway, I considered the option, but I preferred to disarm traps at the time. At least in the first dungeon there are some traps you have to walk over to disarm, and sending a summoned creature over them won't work (I tried). They instakilled me, and I had no item or spell to get the needed resistance. I resorted to using the editor to get some extra xp and restoring my rogue abilities (which had been put on hold until I reached wizard level 9, because of the byzantine rules for dual classing).

    Oh, by the way: there is no dimension door in baldur's gate II.
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    Default Re: Usefulness of stats in baldur's gate

    Quote Originally Posted by King of Nowere View Post
    You are vastly overestimating the amount of scrolls and stuff the game hands down. I don't have that many of those, and most are useless spells. If I tried to hoard, I could have gotten maybe ten scrolls of fireball, which would have seen me through half a dozen enccounters.
    I tried summoning but it never got me anywhere, the summoned monster just went down like a sac of potatoes; only the sword of mordekainen is pretty useful, but it lasts a limited time.
    So, summons instantly die when someone uses Death Spell. However, they're forced to use one of their castings of Death Spell to kill your summons, which makes them ablative meat.

    can you dual class from kensai? I assumed you only could dual class with the base classes. Anyway, I considered the option, but I preferred to disarm traps at the time. At least in the first dungeon there are some traps you have to walk over to disarm, and sending a summoned creature over them won't work (I tried). They instakilled me, and I had no item or spell to get the needed resistance. I resorted to using the editor to get some extra xp and restoring my rogue abilities (which had been put on hold until I reached wizard level 9, because of the byzantine rules for dual classing).
    You can dual OUT of kits (except barbarian), but not INTO kits.
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    Default Re: Usefulness of stats in baldur's gate

    Quote Originally Posted by King of Nowere View Post
    You are vastly overestimating the amount of scrolls and stuff the game hands down. I don't have that many of those, and most are useless spells. If I tried to hoard, I could have gotten maybe ten scrolls of fireball, which would have seen me through half a dozen enccounters.
    S/He's really not, you get loads of scrolls and potions that, even solo, tend to end up hoarded until they become useless. Having done solo runs from 1 through to ToB (once as a Kensai/Mage, once as a pure wizard), I distinctly remember hoarding stuff as usual until the point where I had to either start using stuff or sell it, so I started actually using scrolls/wands/potions like they were going out of style and still never ran out. The easier of the 2 runs by far was as Kensai/Mage since it very efficient to simply buff yourself to nigh invulnerability and then run around with improved haste and [weapon of choice + Belm in off hand] and butcher things without resting too often. If you're primarily a caster, then getting the staff of the magi early is extremely handy, though that's not an easy fight without a lot of foreknowledge and a bit of luck. It's not for the spell-likes the staff gives (though the spell trap is handy), it's the on/off invisibility cheese it allows you to do which renders you nigh immortal to a very large portion of the games encounters.

    Quote Originally Posted by King of Nowere View Post
    I tried summoning but it never got me anywhere, the summoned monster just went down like a sac of potatoes; only the sword of mordekainen is pretty useful, but it lasts a limited time. I didn't got much use out of cloudkill, I generally found that monsters weak enough to be killed by it can also be killed by sunfire, without dealing damage to me in the process. If it instakills umber hulks I will remember it, though.
    Summons are great, if for no other reason beyond providing another target for the enemy to waste their effort on. Summon Skeleton Warrior is pretty win, especially once you get the big one instead of the regular trash. They're immune to mind control too, so that's nice. The elementals are solid, but need prep time since it's a round to cast and then a round to mentally fight, but they've got a lot of HP and can pack a punch. The various summon monster I/II/III/IV series is trash though, only good for traps. Many luls to be had with Niishruu vs casters though, much easier than wasting 15 slots worth of breach/ruby ray/etc getting through defences. Protection from evil and the summon fiend spells can also lighten your load, but be careful as not only do they like to spam area attacks but if you get breached, they will target you too if they've got nothing better to do.

    Quote Originally Posted by King of Nowere View Post
    Polimorph is very useful, but I only prepare one because there are so many useful 4th level spells (stoneskin, greater invisibility, spirit armor...), so I am reluctant to use it. That's another reason I'd like a sorceror: I could spam the same spell over and over while keeping the full utility value of my remaining spell slots. I wasn't aware you could use spell sequencers while polimorphed; I never tried because I just right now found the scroll with the spell - at the svirfneblin city, no less! I could not find a damn 4th level scroll before that. Anyway, it's not that useful for dealing with mooks; the various polimorphed forms all have bad AC, and they aren't fast killing machines, so tanking the monsters in the time it takes me to kill drains a lot my defensive spells. I still need to sleep every couple encounters, I'd just be using different spells. Again, a couple uses of sunfire or skulltrap take less time and less spell slots.

    I find myself in that situation every time I try a wizard in a videogame: I think of how fun it will be to figure out new spell combinations to face different problems, then I get put through an endless series of weak random encounters that will all be solvable with the same few spells, while never finding a situation where I need to change my selection - worst case, I may use a scroll for that single time in the game. So I change to a sorceror and go ahead spamming the same spell through all the game. I soloed neverwinter nights 2 with (greater) fireburst - even when I got higher level, 90% of the times the most effective solution was simply empowered or maximized greater fireburst - then mask of the betrayer with banshee's wail. I think there is some flaw in how those spells are designed; it's like having a tool kit and finding you actually only need the screwdriver 90% of the times.
    If you want to try different spells, you can, there's loads of solutions to most encounters. Controller spells like web/grease/glitterdust/blind/greater malaision/hold person/domination/feeblemind etc are all fantastic and I find that I often get more milage out of them than I do the blaster spells (though they're still extrodinarily usefull too). If you're treating every problem as a nail, don't complain when you keep turning to a hammer for the solution. You don't need to kill everything you see, an invis spell/potion will work just as well and save you a bunch of effort/resting in some areas and since you're going to hit the level cap fairly easily anyway, you're not even missing out on anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by King of Nowere View Post
    can you dual class from kensai? I assumed you only could dual class with the base classes. Anyway, I considered the option, but I preferred to disarm traps at the time. At least in the first dungeon there are some traps you have to walk over to disarm, and sending a summoned creature over them won't work (I tried). They instakilled me, and I had no item or spell to get the needed resistance. I resorted to using the editor to get some extra xp and restoring my rogue abilities (which had been put on hold until I reached wizard level 9, because of the byzantine rules for dual classing).
    Unless EE or a patch has changed things, you can.

    The only thing I can think of that would drop you like that in Irenicus' dungeon is maybe the lightning wand, but IIRC, you can easily remove them from their pedestals, so I'm not sure. Fairly sure everything else is either avoidable or one shot only.

    Quote Originally Posted by King of Nowere View Post
    Oh, by the way: there is no dimension door in baldur's gate II.
    Again, there should be a copy in the Drow city unless it's been chaged by a patch or EE. Fairly sure it's also available as a random treasure drop too, though I could be mistaken.

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    Default Re: Usefulness of stats in baldur's gate

    Fun thing about Polymorph one of the forms is a Slime/Ooze, which has complete magical resistance. Meaning you can take on the groups of Wizards in Athkatla once they start showing up to fight and then kill them for valuable loot and XP. Plus there are a couple scroll merchants dotted around the promenade who have some scrolls you might like.
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    Default Re: Usefulness of stats in baldur's gate

    Quote Originally Posted by Drasius View Post
    Again, there should be a copy in the Drow city unless it's been chaged by a patch or EE. Fairly sure it's also available as a random treasure drop too, though I could be mistaken.
    Looks like it's been removed in EE.
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    Default Re: Usefulness of stats in baldur's gate

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Hall View Post
    Boo! That's a shame, though to be honest, I never really found a massive amount of use for it considering how contested the lvl 4/5 slots are.

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    Default Re: Usefulness of stats in baldur's gate

    There are a couple of fights you can skip, but it's nowhere near as good as in BG1.
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    Default Re: Usefulness of stats in baldur's gate

    Quote Originally Posted by Drasius View Post
    Boo! That's a shame, though to be honest, I never really found a massive amount of use for it considering how contested the lvl 4/5 slots are.
    TBH, I would most like Teleport or TWE... the ability to simply move to places (i.e. "Let me teleport to the ruined temple screen"), especially with an item, would be nice. I don't care as much about tactical teleports like DD.
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    Default Re: Usefulness of stats in baldur's gate

    The entrance to Cloakwood mine in BG1 is pretty hilarious because you can slip your mage behind them and fireball them from behind where the leader can't see you to talk to you.
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    Default Re: Usefulness of stats in baldur's gate

    Quote Originally Posted by Drasius View Post

    If you want to try different spells, you can, there's loads of solutions to most encounters. Controller spells like web/grease/glitterdust/blind/greater malaision/hold person/domination/feeblemind etc are all fantastic and I find that I often get more milage out of them than I do the blaster spells (though they're still extrodinarily usefull too). If you're treating every problem as a nail, don't complain when you keep turning to a hammer for the solution. You don't need to kill everything you see, an invis spell/potion will work just as well and save you a bunch of effort/resting in some areas and since you're going to hit the level cap fairly easily anyway, you're not even missing out on anything.
    If every problem can be solved quickly and effectively by hammering it, I can't help but seeing it as a nail. When I start playing I go full creative mode - the first dungeon was really challenging, as I lacked the firepower to blast through most challenges and I had to adapt - I even used my familiar for attacking and spellcasting, something I've never did before or after. but after a while I start falling into a routine, as my hammer becomes big enough and I already tried most other creative solutions. BGII is actually a pretty good game in that regard, though: it is difficult, and it does require adaptation more often than other games. In NVN2, pretty much the only time I could not fireblast my way through something was against the red dragon optional boss, in which case I ray of cold-ed my way through it (after a disjunction to lower spell resistance).
    I will have to try icewind dale, I only played it once but I remember it as more difficult than BGII

    Many luls to be had with Niishruu vs casters though, much easier than wasting 15 slots worth of breach/ruby ray/etc getting through defences. Protection from evil and the summon fiend spells can also lighten your load, but be careful as not only do they like to spam area attacks but if you get breached, they will target you too if they've got nothing better to do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Triaxx View Post
    Fun thing about Polymorph one of the forms is a Slime/Ooze, which has complete magical resistance. Meaning you can take on the groups of Wizards in Athkatla once they start showing up to fight and then kill them for valuable loot and XP. Plus there are a couple scroll merchants dotted around the promenade who have some scrolls you might like.
    Yeah, if I want to be lazy with casters, I polymorph to ooze and wait until they run out of spells. That's how I got daystar at level 10, by the way. But I generally use other tactics, because total spell immunity feels too easy.
    I have been unable to defeat the cowled wizards with it, though: I am immune to their spells, but after a while they start summoning monsters that can hurt me, and they stripped me of all protections so the summoned monsters definitely hurt me, and if I swap shape to do something against the summons I get killed by spells. I'm going to try again when I'm back from the underdark with a few more levels, though.
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    Default Re: Usefulness of stats in baldur's gate

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Hall View Post
    Aww, that's a pity.

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