Tabaxi rogue/monk for ToA - more monk or more rogue?

[warsawwombats]

TL:DR - Do I go Rogue 3/Monk 7 or Rogue 7/Monk 3? Any recommended progressions? Is it worth going a 6/4 split to get the extra ASI, but lose Evasion? Would Rogue/Ranger or Rogue/Fighter be more useful to the party below?


Hi everyone! Long-time lurker, first-time poster. Love this sub-forum and all the different opinions. Thought I'd finally jump into the water. So, heeeere we go!

I'm in a seven-person party for ToA. We're pretty experienced, having played through PotA, CoS, STK, and some Yawning Portal one-shots. We're not always tactically sound, however, as our party size lends to some brashness of tactics occasionally. Our DM is very story-oriented, and doesn't try to actively TPK us, so we rarely have multiple character deaths.

As such, we fell into a rather squishy party composition for ToA: human wizard, halfling beastmaster ranger, variant human monk, half-elf tome warlock, elf swashbuckler rogue, wood elf land druid.

I started tabaxi rogue with stats of
STR 8
DEX 16
CON 12
INT 8
WIS 14
CHA 16

I'm leaning swashbuckler with shadow monk. I'm thinking either Rogue 3/Monk 7 or Monk 7/Rogue 3. Right now, I'm wondering what my role will be in this party. By level 3, if our party is really struggling in combat, I might look at MCing to fighter or ranger instead of monk. I had a Puss in Boots/Antonio Banderas/Desperado character in mind.

I think we've got plenty of utility covered in this party. Our other monk has the Mobile feat, so she'll be kiting like crazy. Being tabaxi helps me keep up with her, while being swashbuckler allows me to disengage freely to keep up. Our druid prefers playing a utility role. Our wizard will be a wildcard, as he tends to decide his tactics based on PC personality.

I should note that our DM is giving us a one-time complete PC rebuild when Xanathar's comes out. Otherwise, all source material from WotC is fair game for our PCs.

So how should I approach this PC progression?

[bid]

I'm thinking either Rogue 3/Monk 7 or Monk 7/Rogue 3.

That's your best bet. Extra attack frees your BA for flurry of blow.

And you can prone-SA-flurry consitently with expertise in athletics.

[JellyPooga]

If you think that your party is lacking in the combat department, then I'd advise going Open Hand Monk instead of Shadow; the latter is great for scouting and mobility, but Open Hand is straight up better at combat support. In a similar vein, while I would normally advise taking more Rogue than Monk, going Monk 7/Rogue 3 is probably better for pure melee capability; Extra Attack and Stunning Fist are formidable.

On the Rogue side of things, Swashbuckler likes Charisma too much; you'll be horrifically MAD if you try to get something worthwhile out of all your abilities. I'd advise going Thief, which will expand your combat options/utility with Fast Hands and improve your mobility with 2nd Story, mitigating any requirement for Str at all, especially if you Expertise Athletics.

[warsawwombats]

That's your best bet. Extra attack frees your BA for flurry of blow. And you can prone-SA-flurry consitently with expertise in athletics.

So, would you suggested progression be Rogue 3 immediately to get to Swashbuckler right away, followed by Monk 7?

If you think that your party is lacking in the combat department, then I'd advise going Open Hand Monk instead of Shadow; the latter is great for scouting and mobility, but Open Hand is straight up better at combat support.

I was actually thinking Shadow Step gets me advantage more frequently for Sneak Attack, but I'm open to Open Hand. I just wasn't sure my saves would be high enough at WIS 14 to consistently impose the Flurry of Blows conditions (prone or push) for an Open Hand monk.

On the Rogue side of things, Swashbuckler likes Charisma too much; you'll be horrifically MAD if you try to get something worthwhile out of all your abilities. I'd advise going Thief, which will expand your combat options/utility with Fast Hands and improve your mobility with 2nd Story, mitigating any requirement for Str at all, especially if you Expertise Athletics.

I just added my stats to the OP. I have a CHA 16 and WIS 14 because I was specifically planning Swashbuckler, but I guess I can redo it all when Xanathar's comes out and our DM gives us a free redo. I think my original idea behind Swashbuckler is the free disengage when you make an attack on someone. I didn't want to build pure monk because we already had one of those.

Does 2nd Story even matter if tabaxi have a natural climb speed?

[djreynolds]

Hi everyone! Long-time lurker, first-time poster. Love this sub-forum and all the different opinions. Thought I'd finally jump into the water. So, heeeere we go!

I'm in a seven-person party for ToA. We're pretty experienced, having played through PotA, CoS, STK, and some Yawning Portal one-shots. We're not always tactically sound, however, as our party size lends to some brashness of tactics occasionally. Our DM is very story-oriented, and doesn't try to actively TPK us, so we rarely have multiple character deaths.

As such, we fell into a rather squishy party composition for ToA: human wizard, halfling beastmaster ranger, variant human monk, half-elf tome warlock, elf swashbuckler rogue, wood elf land druid.

I started tabaxi rogue. Was thinking about how to build to level 10. I'm leaning swashbuckler with shadow monk. I'm thinking either Rogue 3/Monk 7 or Monk 7/Rogue 3. Right now, I'm wondering what my role will be in this party. By level 3, if our party is really struggling in combat, I might look at MCing to fighter or ranger instead of monk. But mostly, I want to build a PC that will help fill a hole in this party.

I should add that my stats are as follows, if that helps:

STR 8
DEX 16
CON 12
INT 8
WIS 14
CHA 16

I think we've got plenty of utility covered in this party. Our monk has the Mobile feat, so will be kiting like crazy. Being tabaxi helps me keep up with her, while being swashbuckler allows me to disengage freely to keep up. Our druid prefers playing a utility role. Our wizard will be a wildcard, as he tends to decide his tactics based on PC personality.

I should note that our DM is giving us a one-time complete PC rebuild when Xanathar's comes out. Otherwise, all source material from WotC is fair game for our PCs.

So how should I approach this PC progression?

I would begin rogue for the extra skill, and I like dexterity and intelligence saves.

Fancy footwork and rakish audacity are awesome, nothing more, awesome

I do like shadow monk, it has some cool stuff. And that 6th level ability is sweet.

I would go 3 rogue and then go monk. Now as long as you fight with a short sword or dagger, you can add an extra 2d6 once a turn

[warsawwombats]

I would go 3 rogue and then go monk. Now as long as you fight with a short sword or dagger, you can add an extra 2d6 once a turn

I really debated whether Rogue 3/Monk 7 would be able to keep up with Rogue 7's Sneak Attack damage. I haven't done the math on whether Extra Attack and Flurry of Blows would give me approx. the same average DPR. Is there anyone on this forum that's good with that kind of mathematical comparison?

As a follow-up question, would you go with a 6/4 split to get the extra ASI/Feat instead of going to level 7 for Evasion?

[JellyPooga]

- On Way of Shadow vs. Open Hand:
Shadow Step requires dim light/darkness and eats your bonus action. You have more reliable ways to generate advantage/Sneak Attack and as a Monk/Rogue, plenty of uses for your Bonus Action. Open Hand Techniques require no action investment aside from the attack that generate the effect, including the option to stop a foe from taking Reactions; rendering Fancy Footwork somewhat obsolete if you do go down this route. On top of that, Open Hand offers additional options (namely a free super-Shove); more options is always good.

Further, Shadow Arts is awesome, but other members of your party have access to those spells at lower resource cost than you can offer (depending on how often you short rest).

- On Swashbucklers:
You have a big group, so duplication of Class is probably unavoidable (especially if players are multiclassing). Having said that, there's already a Monk and a (specifically) Swashbuckler Rogue on the team. Although I don't necessarily agree with it, some players get funny about niche protection and coming in with another Charismatic swashbuckling sort may ruffle some feathers. That aside, duplication also often breeds inefficiency; a more diverse party can handle a wider range of encounters.

- On Thieves:
2nd Story Work also lets you jump further. Jumping may or may not be a regular thing in your campaigns, but being unable to clear a 10ft pit without rolling makes a mobile character look all sorts of daft. The real draw of the Thief archetype is Fast Hands, though. Being able to Use an Object as a Bonus Action turns you into a battlefield control demon; turn furniture, pull levers, rip down tapestries and so on, all as a Bonus Action is great and far more party friendly than the offerings of either Assassin or Swashbuckler (being a team-player is fun!).

- On Stats:
Even if you decide to go Swashbuckler, I'd switch Wisdom and Charisma (if that's an option; I'm unsure of Tabaxi ability score bonuses); Wisdom is far more important to you. I'd also give half a thought to bumping Str up a bit, if possible. If you're relying on mobility to keep you safe, then you really don't want to fail any Strength saves, most of which have a nasty habit of locking down nippy builds like the one you're aiming at. To that end, I'd also suggest taking Monk at 1st level rather than Rogue, if only for the superior Str Save proficiency over the lacklustre Int. A little more Con might also stand you in better stead than a massive Charisma, if you're rearranging stats and decide not to go Swashbuckler.

- On the 6/4 split:
It's an option, certainly. Especially if you have a particular Feat in mind that you really want. That said, Evasion isn't the only thing you give up by not taking that 7th level of Monk; 1 Ki point/SR and Stillness of Mind are also being delayed. With no proficiency in mental saves, Frightened and Charmed are very real threats that you can shrug off with SoM. Rogue 4 offers nothing except that Feat, so unless you're planning to take Rogue to 5th or 6th level for the respective abilities they offer, I'd leave Rogue as a 3-level dip and focus on Monk; Delaying Monk levels means delaying a whole heap of benefits, including faster movement, higher damage dice and awesome higher level features. Don't forget, at character level 11, assuming you go Monk 8/Rogue 3, you'll be getting your second Feat anyway.

[rbstr]

I really debated whether Rogue 3/Monk 7 would be able to keep up with Rogue 7's Sneak Attack damage. I haven't done the math on whether Extra Attack and Flurry of Blows would give me approx. the same average DPR. Is there anyone on this forum that's good with that kind of mathematical comparison?

You could still Flurry and even use Martial Arts' bonus action unarmed attack in both cases. So the difference boils down to the martial arts die getting bigger and extra attack vs. the larger sneak attack.

So summing up the differences from a baseline of rouge 3/monk 3:
Rogue 7 is 2d6 more sneak than rogue 3. That's 7 average damage
Monk 7 adds a 1d6+dex extra attack. So like 6.5 or 7.5 depending on your dex mod. Plus an extra 1dpr for the martial arts die getting bigger on the bonus action unarmed attack.

So monk comes out a couple points ahead. It's not a lot.
The big difference is that more Rogue is more risky. You only get the one attack to tag with the finesse weapon unless you try to two-weapon fight and use a much worse bonus action attack instead of the monk's unarmed bonus action attack.
With more Monk you can do two short sword attacks and you only need to hit with one to add your extra sneak attack damage.

IMO I'd go Monk 5 before adding Rogue.

If you're looking to differentiate yourself from the party a bit more, given the overlap, you could do something like Hunter Ranger + Monk. You get dueling style, colossus slayer - which is a bit like a weak sneak attack with less usage limitation (but it can work on your unarmed attacks), extra attack, some spells, a long bow if you need it. You'd still be quite different from the Beast Master. Swapping your charisma and wis scores would make that work pretty well.

[djreynolds]

I really debated whether Rogue 3/Monk 7 would be able to keep up with Rogue 7's Sneak Attack damage. I haven't done the math on whether Extra Attack and Flurry of Blows would give me approx. the same average DPR. Is there anyone on this forum that's good with that kind of mathematical comparison?

As a follow-up question, would you go with a 6/4 split to get the extra ASI/Feat instead of going to level 7 for Evasion?

Well what do you want to do?

Is this all about damage?

5th level monk using a spear or staff can do 1d8+3,1d8+3, and 1 BA for 1d6+3 and 1 KI point for FOB for 1d6+3. Not bad, but this is only for 5 rounds because he only has 5KI points

Lets say you max damage, 11,+11,+9,+9=40 but that only 5 rounds than you have to short rest

5th level rogue, 1d8+3=11 and 3d6=18 = 29 but that's every round assuming conditions for sneak attack have been met, no short rest, no bonus action needed either.... meaning you can use cunning action to disengage.

Now the mobile feat and fancy foot work allows you to disengage "freely" (dependent on enemy positioning and such), cunning action uses just a BA to disengage, while step of the wind uses a BA and KI

Now a monk with the mobile feat can disengage from the person they just attacked, like fancy foot work, but not their comrades, you still can get hit

Shadow step is very cool to use as it is up to 60ft and NO KI NEEDED, teleport doesn't need provoke an AoO, but this requires 6 levels of shadow monk

But what do you want to do?

IMO a monk wants more monk levels, and a rogue wants more rogue levels. They want to mesh, but they really don't, special builds might but this requires higher levels

IMO a monk can benefit greatly from 2 levels of rogue for cunning action, but knowing to use it you lose your BA attack and FOB. Good for when you run out of KI

The mobile feat is nice but doesn't always work versus groups of enemies, only single opponents

Unless you have a special build in mind, a rogue doesn't really benefit from monk. Studded leather and dex, is equivalent to a monk with a 14 in wisdom (which you have). And the wizard can throw mage armor on you and this is equivalent to wisdom 16.

So are you able to move around your stats at all?

STR 8 DEX 16 CON 12 INT 8 WIS 14 CHA 16

Because if you can, STR 13, DEX 16, CON 12, INT 8, WIS 10, CHA 16

Swashbuckler paladin Tabaxi looks very cool.

[JellyPooga]

IMO a monk wants more monk levels, and a rogue wants more rogue levels. They want to mesh, but they really don't

This is an important point; Monk and Rogue have a lot overlap (Cunning Action vs. Step of the Wind, Deflect Missiles vs. Uncanny Dodge, Evasion) and generally benefit more from taking more levels in one Class than switching between the two. Monk/Rogue simply isn't that great a multiclass on paper.

It all depends on what you want out of the build and how you think your character will reflect it. You mention in the OP that you might consider Ranger instead of Monk and I think that might be a better way to go; you've got the stats for it, certainly. Going Hunter Ranger/Arcane Trickster Rogue will allow you to progress your spellcasting while advancing both sides of the build and the additional attack that Horde Breaker offers is great for trying to land a Sneak Attack. You'll also be Skill-tastic with both Classes offering an extra skill when you MC into it. Ranger 5/Rogue 5 is a solid level 10 starting point, allowing you to choose either Class to take further.

[Azgeroth]

from what i hear, ToA is much more exploration based than combat.

with that in mind, and your party setup as it is, i would either go something like rogue/bard

or fighter/barb.


rogue/bard gives you ULTIMATE UTILITY!!
(alot of the skills are covered by your party, doubling up means you always have a valid 'help' option (advantage!))

fighter/barb ignores the mass of skills, but will cover up the strength short fall of the party. for when/if those skills/checks come up.


rogue/bard gives you some reasonable combat capability, but also some good control/utility for combat.

fighter/barb gives you very good combat capability, and a bit of control (if u go BM fighter)

[warsawwombats]

Well what do you want to do?

Is this all about damage?
...
But what do you want to do?

IMO a monk wants more monk levels, and a rogue wants more rogue levels. They want to mesh, but they really don't, special builds might but this requires higher levels
...
So are you able to move around your stats at all?

STR 8 DEX 16 CON 12 INT 8 WIS 14 CHA 16

Because if you can, STR 13, DEX 16, CON 12, INT 8, WIS 10, CHA 16

Swashbuckler paladin Tabaxi looks very cool.

My stats are fixed unless I do a complete rebuild when Xanathar's Guide is released. I think you make a good point. I don't really know what I want to do. I just want a character that gets spotlight time, which usually means not playing something that overlaps with another player's PC. This is hard to do with seven players.

The glaring hole in the party right now is we don't have any dedicated tank or defender-style martial. Lots of kiting and ranged combat. I guess I was trying to build a PC that dances through the battlefield quickly and gracefully, while still having lots of out-of-combat utility--the kind of swordsman that hits and disappears, leaving opponents flat-footed and stunned. I think I might be trying to squeeze too much into this PC though.

[warsawwombats]

It all depends on what you want out of the build and how you think your character will reflect it. You mention in the OP that you might consider Ranger instead of Monk and I think that might be a better way to go; you've got the stats for it, certainly. Going Hunter Ranger/Arcane Trickster Rogue will allow you to progress your spellcasting while advancing both sides of the build and the additional attack that Horde Breaker offers is great for trying to land a Sneak Attack. You'll also be Skill-tastic with both Classes offering an extra skill when you MC into it. Ranger 5/Rogue 5 is a solid level 10 starting point, allowing you to choose either Class to take further.

I think you're right in that going Ranger might be a better MC than going monk. It kinda wastes the CHA 16 though.

We just left Nyanzaru (foolishly not doing any in-city side quests) with a single guide. As such, we have very little information to work with. We're just floating down the river towards Camp Righteous with the map we received from Syndra.

Our ranger's Favored Terrain is forest, and our DM ruled that forests and rivers are two different terrains, so we're pretty much getting lost every other turn. THIS might be my impetus to MC into Hunter Ranger with River as my Favored Terrain. I mean, I AM tabaxi, so I should be somewhat knowledgeable about Chult, right?

[JellyPooga]

I think you're right in that going Ranger might be a better MC than going monk. It kinda wastes the CHA 16 though.

The Charisma isn't wasted because it a) gives you decent social ability without having to have Proficiency in any social skills and b) gives you a decent Charisma Save without proficiency. Also, Charisma is the "awesome" stat; everything you do looks good when you do it. Walking down the street? Yeah, you're cool. Ordering drinks at the bar? Yeah, you get served first.

[djreynolds]

Eldritch Knight/ draconic sorcerer/ tempest cleric. You can pull this off with those stats

Breast plate and rapier and shield

Shield spell, grab war caster and booming blade

[Citan]

Spoiler: OP's information

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TL:DR - Do I go Rogue 3/Monk 7 or Rogue 7/Monk 3? Any recommended progressions? Is it worth going a 6/4 split to get the extra ASI, but lose Evasion? Would Rogue/Ranger or Rogue/Fighter be more useful to the party below?


Hi everyone! Long-time lurker, first-time poster. Love this sub-forum and all the different opinions. Thought I'd finally jump into the water. So, heeeere we go!

I'm in a seven-person party for ToA. We're pretty experienced, having played through PotA, CoS, STK, and some Yawning Portal one-shots. We're not always tactically sound, however, as our party size lends to some brashness of tactics occasionally. Our DM is very story-oriented, and doesn't try to actively TPK us, so we rarely have multiple character deaths.

As such, we fell into a rather squishy party composition for ToA: human wizard, halfling beastmaster ranger, variant human monk, half-elf tome warlock, elf swashbuckler rogue, wood elf land druid.

I started tabaxi rogue with stats of
STR 8
DEX 16
CON 12
INT 8
WIS 14
CHA 16

I'm leaning swashbuckler with shadow monk. I'm thinking either Rogue 3/Monk 7 or Monk 7/Rogue 3. Right now, I'm wondering what my role will be in this party. By level 3, if our party is really struggling in combat, I might look at MCing to fighter or ranger instead of monk. I had a Puss in Boots/Antonio Banderas/Desperado character in mind.

I think we've got plenty of utility covered in this party. Our other monk has the Mobile feat, so she'll be kiting like crazy. Being tabaxi helps me keep up with her, while being swashbuckler allows me to disengage freely to keep up. Our druid prefers playing a utility role. Our wizard will be a wildcard, as he tends to decide his tactics based on PC personality.

I should note that our DM is giving us a one-time complete PC rebuild when Xanathar's comes out. Otherwise, all source material from WotC is fair game for our PCs.

So how should I approach this PC progression?

I think you're right in that going Ranger might be a better MC than going monk. It kinda wastes the CHA 16 though.

We just left Nyanzaru (foolishly not doing any in-city side quests) with a single guide. As such, we have very little information to work with. We're just floating down the river towards Camp Righteous with the map we received from Syndra.

Our ranger's Favored Terrain is forest, and our DM ruled that forests and rivers are two different terrains, so we're pretty much getting lost every other turn. THIS might be my impetus to MC into Hunter Ranger with River as my Favored Terrain. I mean, I AM tabaxi, so I should be somewhat knowledgeable about Chult, right?

I half-agree with others telling that Rogue wants more Rogue and Monk wants more Monk. While it's extremely true for the latter whatever you do, it's much less true in a multiclass for the former.

Sneak Attack is +1d6 every two levels. Monk brings immediate bonus action attack then Extra Attack, with increasing die.
So in a multiclass, you don't really care about Sneak Attack unless you really want to go Rogue 11+.

Uncanny Dodge is always a great ability, and it's free, but a Monk has better mobility and can Dodge as a bonus action. More importantly, a Monk needs as much ki as possible in the first place.
Evasion? Both get it. ;)

Also I agree with everything JellyPooga said.
Unless you are set with the specific Swash/Shadow combo, I'd go for another combo.
For example, Open Hand with a good WIS could help you duo with your other Monk to stand the line while not putting yourselves too much at risk. Long Death would also help you keep standing and level 6 ability would be fearsome for enemies (rush first, use it, now everyone has a big defensive advantage).
With that said, on Monk part, Shadow is definitely a good choice also. Pass Without Trace? Even if your Druid could prepare it, that's still one less responsability for him. Silence? Nobody has it so it's a net plus. Darkness? With you Wizard don't need to use a precious spell known on that, plus it's not that high a cost for you. Plus you can use it to provide mobile cover for anyone needing it.
Finally, it is a great way to give you a use for your "concentration slot".
So if you like Shadow, definitely stick with it.

Now on the Rogue part. If you are set on "no-magic" and like the fluff relating with Swash, go with it. Concept > all. :)
If you don't care that much and are rather looking at optimization, Arcane Trickster or Thief are much better.
Thief benefits have been explained by JellyPooga. You could also invest in Healer feat to help both of you Monks on the frontline (because you are that mobile, there may be occasions in which Druid cannot reach even with Healing Words).
Arcane Trickster would help you greatly with resilience (Shield), soft control (Booming Blade), tactical awareness (Find Familiar).

As for how much you want of each class...
If you go Arcane Trickster / Shadow, you could want as many spells as possible so AT 7 / Sha 3.
If you go Thief / Shadow or Thief / Long Death, then 3/7 or 4/6 are your best bets.

For your original Swash/Shadow, definitely 3/7. Getting +2d6, Uncanny Dodge and another Expertise is not worth losing Extra Attack, better Monk die on every weapon attack, better movement, Slow Fall, Stunning Strike, magical strikes, and level 6 archetype feature.

As for stats.
There are several ways to do this: if you go Arcane Trickster / Shadow, you could grab Mage Armor and ditch Stunning Strike, thus removing all need for high WIS: instead, pump DEX and grab a feat: maybe not Mobile (your friend may feel her niche threatened) but between Tough, Magic Initiate, Ritual Caster, Mage Slayer, Defensive Duelist (worth later, not at low level), Observant or even Sharpshooter (120 feet Javelins throw o/) it's not like you lack choice. ;)

If you go Monk main with Open Hand / Long Death, then max WIS as a priority.

Have fun ;)

[warsawwombats]

Spoiler: OP's information

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<snip>
Have fun ;)

Wow! That's a lot to chew on! That covers every conceivable base for me, so thank you!

We're prob going to hit level 3 this week, so I have some choices to make fast!

The Mobile feat is out for me, since the other monk has it, but I can do a pretty good facsimile with the tabaxi's Feline Agility ability, plus the swashbuckler's Fancy Footwork. This was a big impetus for starting with Rogue 3.

I'm trying to wrap my head around how to use Fast Hands in the jungles of Chult. Maybe I'm just not that creative tactically. Was also debating how to take advantage of Legerdemain now that we're no longer in Port Nyanzaru.

I can make Thief or Arcane Trickster work in my roleplay. Not quite the debonair swordsman I had in mind, but I can definitely make it work.

[djreynolds]

I happen to play right know a battlemaster swashbuckler, though strength based could easily work for you as dex based

Riposte and sentinel, now you have 2 chances to score sneak attacks on "their" turn. If they swing and miss you... riposte and sneak attack. If they hit your buddy or even the ranger's beast sentinel and sneak attack

And when not running around TWF, pull out a bow as these maneuvers work with dexterity

battle master/swashbuckler

Oh and since you have a good charisma, grab the rally maneuver as well

[Citan]

Wow! That's a lot to chew on! That covers every conceivable base for me, so thank you!

We're prob going to hit level 3 this week, so I have some choices to make fast!

The Mobile feat is out for me, since the other monk has it, but I can do a pretty good facsimile with the tabaxi's Feline Agility ability, plus the swashbuckler's Fancy Footwork. This was a big impetus for starting with Rogue 3.

I'm trying to wrap my head around how to use Fast Hands in the jungles of Chult. Maybe I'm just not that creative tactically. Was also debating how to take advantage of Legerdemain now that we're no longer in Port Nyanzaru.

I can make Thief or Arcane Trickster work in my roleplay. Not quite the debonair swordsman I had in mind, but I can definitely make it work.

Well, if you really want to be Monk main and doesn't want to grab Mobile, then Swashbuckler can still be worth.

Thief I recommended mainly because of potential Healer feat to grab somewhere, secondarily for the extra move and objects (which indeed mean you have to get ideas to use those -and I can't help you much here, I'm not very good with them either, but there is a thread on this forum somewhere filled with great examples).

Arcane Trickster I quoted because it's a set of abilities which are easier to use efficiently while still giving some room for creativity.

I may have been too "decisive" or "authoritary" in my previous post, but these are still just suggestions I made to help you see a bit the things you could do with different choices.
Plus don't forget you are in a party (are you not?), so it's not like you have to try and get the best ever mechanically. Each people is supposed to have strengths and weakness that are compensated by others, and although some archetypes combos synergize more than others, there is no bad choice per se.

"Just don't brainstorm too much and pick whatever you are the most comfortable with intuitively, afterwards learning to master it as you progress..."
Would be my definitive advice. ;)